Chatham-7/18 [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Chatham-7/18


striblue
07-18-2001, 10:14 AM
Out at 4 this morning to the light house... past the point.. late outgoing.. continued for about a mile down the ocean side of south beach. one guy I spoke with headed out just before me and stoped at the point.. walking in the dark just before the point I heard a loud bark and growling .In the dark I bearly can see a huge dog or I thought a coyote come out from the dunes and walking slowly. low, and approaching this guy who stops and stares back at the the dog... I pulled my knife and started to move quickly to the guy.. the dog is a huge german shepard I think and stops.with its head down and deep growling. A stare down with the guy.. the dog then slowly moves off back into the dunes.. scared the bejesus out of me and him. Anyway, that got the adrenilin flowing.. too early for that though. Oh.. this is a fishing report.. caught 3 30 inch fish among the seals, I walked the beach and picked the holes where the seals were.. paid off. would have liked to stay but the tide was moving in quick. I when out at knee high and came back in at chest high... to close for me.. need to smarten up.. Back tomorrow.

Bri-RN
07-18-2001, 10:25 AM
Interesting story John!
What is the deal with this w/e.
Is there a Rip TRip and if so are there still spots available?
Thanx
Brian Z.

striblue
07-18-2001, 10:28 AM
Brian.. I don't know right now.. I have not spoken to Juro... we can certainly schedule one... Juro.. please contact me.. I can make arrangements with Keith... What are the tides, weather forcast, etc.?

TinMan
07-18-2001, 06:50 PM
John, I'm glad you're ok!

FWIW: I train GSD's in Schutzhund and feel obligated to point out that this staring is exactly what you should avoid doing in this situation. Staring is taken as a challenge and usually leads to an attack immediately. It's a tactic we use to lead dogs to attack in training in fact. It's possible this was a bitch protecting pups and may not have even been a GSD, even if you think it looked like one - esp. with the variance in the breed.

If it was approaching snarling and crouched down (low as you say) it was scared. Very dangerous.

Just be aware of the dogs presence and location, do NOT turn your back on it (triggers prey drive), yet do not make direct eye contact. Just remain still, it's the best advice for most people (i.e., w/o training in interpretting a dog's posture). Usually, they will go away. Never run or make quick movements. In your situation, I wouldn't have walked slowly toward them with your knife in sight (keep in mind that it's likely you will NOT get a chance to stab the dog before it's torn you up pretty good. Most people think in their minds they will be able to subdue a dog when it attacks if they are armed ... they are sorely mistaken. I used to think this way too, "Hey, they don't have thumbs and I can stab/shoot him a few times even if he bites me." - nope. Their bite is lightening fast and it's likely they will bite the hand with the weapon. I've seen totally untrained dogs do this by instinct. My dog bit me once during training and I didn't even see it happen - you'd think he was in The Matrix or something. Just blood pouring out of my hand was all I saw. This is also a dog that doesn't feel much pain either (bred for that actually for police work) and if you stuck him, you'd better hit a major artery, because otherwise you'd just piss him off).

Anyway, I've had too much coffee and typing way too fast for my own good... just glad you weren't hurt.

MarkDoogue
07-18-2001, 07:52 PM
Can you say BEAR MACE!!!!

I thought I had enough junk to carry while fishing........?

Glad to hear all is well, though. Be careful out there.

~Mark

juro
07-18-2001, 08:02 PM
John -

From your description it sounds like this beast was bigger than the coyote that was probing around south beach two weeks ago at dawn. Remember her? Unless coyote males pee like female dogs, it was a she coyote (believe me I am no expert but this was a coyote).

TinMan
07-18-2001, 09:14 PM
juro (07-18-2001 09:02 p.m.):
John -
From your description it sounds like this beast was bigger than the coyote that was probing around south beach two weeks ago at dawn. Remember her? Unless coyote males pee like female dogs, it was a she coyote (believe me I am no expert but this was a coyote).

Not surprised. Mass is having a population issue with them, esp. with new housing construction pushing them out of their dens. Had one in my backyard a few weeks ago and then one in the street a week later.

FWIW: males often pee squatting as well. Also, coyotes don't bark or growl, so it was likely a dog.

striblue
07-18-2001, 09:15 PM
Great.. that's all I need to hear... Walk toward it??? I have got to read that again. I am going out tomorrow morning again. I might bring a baseball bat with me or a machete. That probably won't do any good.

TinMan
07-18-2001, 09:21 PM
striblue (07-18-2001 10:15 p.m.):
Great.. that's all I need to hear... Walk toward it??? I have got to read that again. I am going out tomorrow morning again. I might bring a baseball bat with me or a machete. That probably won't do any good.

NO!!! Sorry, typo, I'll fix it.

striblue
07-18-2001, 09:26 PM
Tin Man, what will walking toward it achieve.. scare it more or will it start waging it's tail, or will it think it has met it's match.. what happens if it starts walking toward me as I walk toward it.. are we then committed. Neeed to know. How about walking in the water up to my knees or something. Please advise. I want to go at 4'

juro
07-18-2001, 09:30 PM
If it's anything like my dogs just bring a soapy brush and some water and they will run like hell!

I should be serious... http://www.flyfishingforum.com/UB/Public/Images/Default/roll.gif

TinMan
07-18-2001, 09:31 PM
striblue (07-18-2001 10:26 p.m.):
Tin Man, what will walking toward it achieve.. scare it more or will it start waging it's tail, or will it think it has met it's match.. what happens if it starts walking toward me as I walk toward it.. are we then committed. Neeed to know. How about walking in the water up to my knees or something. Please advise. I want to go at 4'

Hi John,

See post before this one and my original response. I changed the working a bit. Sorry about that, trying to do too many things at once at this late hour.

You said you had walked toward the two possible combatants and my suggestion was that if you still insist on doing that, at least go very slowly so as not to surprise the dog. I can understand if you wanted to get closer in case the guy needed help.

If the dog starts towards you because it suddenly saw you, I don't think it would be a slow process at that point ;-). But I'm guessing the dog was being defensive and was also scared, so it's not likely to leave it's territory.

The mace suggestion isn't a bad one by the way. Red pepper spray is cruel, but if you don't have a choice. It would be sad to think this is an abandonded dog that's just trying to scrape out an existence. More common than you want to hear about.

If you really want on the spot advice, I'll have to come with you to your secret places in Chatham ;)

tomd
07-18-2001, 09:34 PM
please remember... mace is not always (though it is usually) effective, and can really piss off an already agressive animal. just don't get cocky. tinman, I've been around alot of dogs, many gsd as well. been bit about 4 times. I agree, lightning fast... be carefull guys. Tom D

juro
07-18-2001, 09:36 PM
How about a compressed gas airhorn? At close range they are head-splitting loud.

striblue
07-18-2001, 09:42 PM
Mike, Thanks ,that is good advice even if I don't encounter it again. That knowledge may come in handy at a later date... hopfully not. Juro... I never thought of that.. good idea. I will get some really nice smelling soap. But only if you come with me, and Mike that's a deal.

juro
07-18-2001, 09:45 PM
Looking forward to some serious fishing this weekend!

striblue
07-18-2001, 09:48 PM
This thread is a lot longer than planned but it is good advice and something not covered before... Tin man says to run into the water as well which is what I would do... but Juro, I have one of those horns.. I wonder if that would also work.

TinMan
07-18-2001, 09:48 PM
juro (07-18-2001 10:36 p.m.):
How about a compressed gas airhorn? At close range they are head-splitting loud.

Interestingly enough, with a "normal" dog just being defensive, that might have the desired response (back off). But with a dog full of fear drive, you don't want to make loud noises. They are VERY unpredictable when they are scared. Kind of the opposite of what you might expect (fear != flee with dogs).

striblue
07-18-2001, 09:51 PM
Juro.....Yak attack with map????

TinMan
07-18-2001, 09:55 PM
striblue (07-18-2001 10:42 p.m.):
Mike, Thanks ,that is good advice even if I don't encounter it again. That knowledge may come in handy at a later date... hopfully not. Juro... I never thought of that.. good idea. I will get some really nice smelling soap. But only if you come with me, and Mike that's a deal.

SWEET! I knew this dog training would pay off some day!

:)

Tell us more about those 3 30"ers, what fly?

striblue
07-18-2001, 10:00 PM
Deep sand eel.. olive and black top.. 6 inches long

Lefty
07-19-2001, 09:34 AM
In this case I'm glad to hear the bite was off. :)

Lefty

Ishmeal
07-19-2001, 11:43 AM
John...The State Police K-9 units use a "special" padded suit for attack dog training...If you could combine this suit with a breathable wader, the dog problem would not be a concern... Until then, better get rid of the pork chops and strip steaks from you bag of tricks!

LET'S GO FISHING!

P.S.
I've heard that the "bird women" use guard dogs for their perimeter security...so close and yet so far!

striblue
07-19-2001, 06:02 PM
Pete ,are you coming down this weekend... Ahhh. your at home now in middle Mass. and have not fished for a week... well, close your eyes... a funny thing happened to me this morning..I...I...was fishing... and all of a sudden there was this... this... TUG at the end of my line... you know the feeling Pete.. don't you... yes,, the rod bent and the reel...it...it ..screamed... And the TUG... that feeling was there... you remember don't you... can you feel it... I felt it for real,Pete...I have to go back now...now... down the street. Will you be going.....now.... Pete.

SOLO
07-19-2001, 08:52 PM
John...The "tug" on the line...the "bend" in the rod...the "wurrr" of the drag...the "crack" of my thumb being bludgeoned by the spinning gaugernaught..the "urge" to pee in my waders...Yes John, it's all coming clear...I see myself getting up "dreadfully" early and driving to a cauzzzway...and having a YAK attack...and and helping you lug around a big can of Postal/Industrial strength "DogBeGone"...I'll be your wingman, John...I'll guard your 6 o'clock and dive on the hand grinade if we run into any "bird-women" or "perimeter hounds"...Yes John, I'll be there for you, John...
But John, what's in it for ME, John?! ME ME ME! I've got to take care of MY needs first! ...I'll make a list and we can talk about it later...Gotta' see how it all fits into MY schedule!
LET'S GO FISHING!