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: Fly tiers are next. Didn't know you were a beast did you?

01-06-2003, 05:32 PM
From todays New York Times.

Animal Fans' Secret Recipe Is to Boycott Restaurant

ASHINGTON, Jan. 5 — People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the animal welfare group, begins a global boycott on Monday of KFC to seek an improvement in the lives and deaths of 700 million chickens who become the chain's fried meals every year.

The group plans to pass out bumper stickers and fliers on Monday in Louisville, Ky., Toronto, London and Bombay to start a campaign pressing the chain to change how chickens are raised in large factory farms in the United States and around the world. Among the suggestions are to improve the diets of breeder hens and to gas chickens to sleep before they are slaughtered.

This is not the group's first campaign to improve chickens' lives — it has won concessions from McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's. But it is the group's first effort to focus on restaurants worldwide and it comes when fast-food restaurants are under pressure on several fronts.

With fat people trying to sue fast-food restaurants for helping to cause their obesity, the group hopes to tap into the growing public criticism of a fast-food diet as well as the concern over farm animal welfare. Instead of following the slow path of pushing for changes in regulations, the group wants restaurants to enforce immediate changes by telling farmers they will not buy chickens raised and slaughtered under current conditions.

"If people knew what happened to those chickens, raising them in their own filth and then dumping them on an assembly line to have their throats cut when they're still alive, they wouldn't go to Kentucky Fried Chicken," a spokesman for the group, Bruce Friedrich, said.

That strategy worked against those other fast-food chains. After an 11-month campaign, McDonald's agreed to buy eggs only from farms that gave egg laying hens extra water, more wing room in their cages and fresh air. It also said it would insist that slaughterhouses stun animals before they are killed.

Officials of the KFC Corporation declined a request for an interview and would not respond to the accusations from the group. Instead they issued a statement.

"KFC is committed to the well being and humane treatment of chickens and we require all of our suppliers to follow welfare guidelines developed by us with leading experts on our Animal Welfare Advisory Council," the statement said. "Our suppliers are receiving unannounced audits at their poultry facilities throughout the year to ensure strict compliance with our guidelines."

Ian Duncan, a member of the advisory council and chairman of animal welfare in the department of animal and poultry sciences at the University of Guelph in Canada, said the animal welfare group may have a point.

"I've been doing research into chicken welfare since 1965 and change has been slow, very slow," Mr. Duncan said in a telephone interview.

"PETA is very extreme and they exaggerate, but maybe that's what it takes," he said. "I used to be very much against them, but I can see they are getting things done."

The restaurant and poultry industries disagree and say their guidelines are sufficient.

The changes the group seeks — giving the chickens more room to roam in their barns, improving the trucks that transport them to the slaughterhouses — would increase the cost of raising the animals, industry officials said.

Terrie Dort, president of the National Council of Chain Restaurants, has been part of a two-year project to alter industry guidelines for raising farm animals. She said the timing of this boycott is a betrayal of that effort.

"I think it is very counterproductive when PETA knows the pressures we are under to get these guidelines in order," Ms. Dort said.

Environmentalists and animal welfare groups are attacking the large scale of animal husbandry, which can cause water pollution and other ecological damage.

With the PETA campaign trying to convince consumers that the animals are not well cared for, the poultry industry is highlighting its new guidelines for raising chickens and criticizing the group for its stated goal to turn more Americans into vegetarians.

"PETA's objective is not to improve animal welfare but to eliminate the use of food from animal sources," a spokesman for the National Chicken Council, Richard Lobb, said. "A proper concern for animal welfare is already well established in the broiler chicken industry."

01-06-2003, 06:15 PM
They can all go to He....!
Have a vegetarian for lunch.
Carniviour Cuisine, That's where it's at.

Heaven help us when they start on Whiting Farms etc.


01-06-2003, 07:12 PM
The PETA is so non main stream I just find it not as scary as some folks. Maybe a little paranoia is a good thing but I must budget my worry time as I spend way too much time being positive and only have enough negative thnking to cover the Enviromental problems.

John Desjardins
01-06-2003, 09:19 PM
I've always wondered just what PETA thinks would happen to the farm animals if they convinced us to become vegetarians. It wouldn't be a pretty sight for the animals.

01-06-2003, 09:54 PM
PETA again? Who cares? Call me when they matter.
I am impressed with their ability to strike fear in so many with an unloaded gun

01-07-2003, 09:07 AM
I'm just waiting for PETA to become terrorist and start blowing stuff up just to make their point!

01-07-2003, 10:31 AM
I'll have to admit that I am a bit turned off by the way they mass-produce chicken meat nowadays. But that's where PETA and I part ways. I am perfectly fine with chasing down and consuming more humanely raised chickens, let 'em run wild and have "fun" while they fatten up - but to think that vegetarianism is the only answer makes me wonder what is the question?

Nature is largely omnivorous, carnivorous, and opportunistic. We as a species could no sooner convert from our natural ways and means than the grizzly could convert to eating only berries.

It's great that some people adopt vegetarianism as a way of life, but it's a luxury made available by a societal and cultural level of existence that is distant from harsh realities of survival and the cruel inevitabilities of the earth, from which we are (like it or not) inseparable.

I fail to see the point in converting the human race to vegetarianism, nor have I ever heard it's rationale explained in a convincing manner. It's a great personal lifestyle decision, very healthy if done right, and it's more conscientious from an energy perspective. But chasing, hunting, killing, cleaning and eating prey is probably even more natural for homo sapiens and is without a doubt a critical behavior contributing to our phenomenal success as a species over the millenia.

So successful that some can even afford to make lifestyle decisions ;)

.02 FWIW and all that jazz

01-07-2003, 12:58 PM
An 'man' was intended to be a carnivorous animal; just look at our teeth vs. that a a 'true' vegitairan 'anamal.' One's set up for ripping/chewing the other strictly as nibblers (front) with the majority as 'grinders.'

Willie: I think I got that right?

Dble Haul
01-07-2003, 01:27 PM
I wonder how many of the PETA drones know about the many animals that have been used in the safety testing of drugs that save lives every day. I'm sure that some members have had the quality of their lives or the lives of those they love improved or even saved by some of these compounds. Would they quit if they knew the origin of the drug testing? I seriously doubt it.

Can't have it both ways.

Willmullis mentioned terrorist activities....while they're not blowing up buildings, the organization has already committed numerous acts that fall into this category, and there is an attempt in the works to remove their tax status for this very reason. They shouldn't be getting a tax break.

They should be taxed for ignorance and hypocracy.

John Desjardins
01-07-2003, 01:33 PM
Ok, when do we start up the Plant Anti-Vivisection Alliance. :devil: I see a mission statement of:

Do you hear the screams of the trees when pruned, the cry as their comrades in branches are sacrificed to the pyre of the spring brushfire. Never mind the horror of the lawnmower brutally attacking the grass or the sorrow of the plant as their fruit is brutally ripped from them. Help prevent this horror by joining PAVA, the Plant Anti-Vivisection Alliance. Send money to .....

01-07-2003, 02:01 PM

Great origanizition! Look at how many poor trees can be saved from such abuse and suffereing if we just stop using paper products. Then we should also not forget about those poor biting insects and dangerous bacteria that do such valuable service to the planet by ridding it of surplus people. Perhaps we need to start an organization that reminds us of the dangers of destroying such useful bacteria as Eboli.

01-07-2003, 02:27 PM
PETA doesn't want animal testing, so wonder if they'd volenteer to try vacenes (sp?) for the Eboli you mentioned? Would be a true humanitarian service.:smokin:

Tod D
01-07-2003, 04:45 PM
I’m not entirely sure that groups like PETA can or should be dismissed so offhandedly. To echo Juro’s thoughts, I think there’s a direct correlation between the efficacy of groups like PETA and the extent to which industrialized society becomes disconnected from the how’s and where’s of its food production. PETA capitalizes on that detachment and seizes a perfect one-sided issue: animal cruelty. Save for a sociopath or two, I cannot imagine many who are pro-cruelty.

PETA frames its boycott of KFC on two tiers. First, stop treating chickens inhumanely. Second, don’t eat chicken – or any other meat for that matter. First argument is infinitely easier to swallow (ok, I couldn’t resist…). While KFC’s PR folks drone on about standards, Animal Welfare boards, etc. PETA frames the issue very simplistically and effectively in black/white terms.

Obviously, the 2nd tier case is a much tougher sell. That’s ok though because over time if PETA wins enough of those 1st tier arguments, the group starts to seem pretty mainstream. Suddenly, the leap to the 2nd tier argument doesn’t seem so far fetched anymore.

Boy, I’m sounding a bit paranoid these days…but seriously, I guess the point of my long-winded ramble is that we shouldn’t dismiss PETA out of hand. While the mainstream dismisses them, they’re slowing framing the terms of the issue(s).

I'm off the soapbox now…

01-07-2003, 07:28 PM
Can't remember ther term for it but you accuse some one/group of something totally outragous. Because of who/what they are they respond: "no were not!.' Next is Yes you are/no were not.

Group two then feels they have to take a position to 'disprove' the off the wall acusations; therefore tending to lend some level of credence (Sweet J, my spelling is the pits tonight!!) to the original comment(s).

You can watch the Demo's vs. the Repub's on this point right now on the 'race issue.' Really dumb, but 'they' couldn't resist rising to the bait. How do you think James Carvelle makes a very good living. Why anyone would give him a moments thought is beyond me .... but he makes several hundred grand a year doing just this sort of silliness.

I'm in the wrong business.

01-07-2003, 07:38 PM
Sportsmen are PETA's best spokesmen. They seem to be the only ones talking about PETA. A small news item is released, and the sportsmen spend the next week crying about how the sky is falling. If we keep it up, maybe others will see them as a group with influence. Ignore them and they WILL go away, I promise. No one else takes them seriously, and if they can influence people to be kind to animals, good. As for banning pets, animal testing and meat eating...are you kidding? That'll fly like a brick. If I paid attention to every crazy idiot that issues a press release, I suppose I would be working the twists out of my shorts too. For a bunch of rugged outdoorsmen, I sure do hear alot of whining. It's not like PETA is the CLAN or the NRA(two influential groups that DO have a negative impact on our well being).
Does anyone have any examples of PETA influencing policy in America? I read somewhere that the NCAA was going to use synthetic basket balls because of PETA pressure. Apparently the new balls are better anyway. Anything a little more significant than this? Until then, I will dismiss them offhandedly.

Tod D
01-08-2003, 06:53 AM
Hold on a sec.... nope, shorts are twist-free ;)

Just commenting on how debates get framed and public perception is influenced over time.

Dble Haul
01-08-2003, 08:31 AM
I was in error in my previous post....PETA has not been directly involved in terrorist activities, but it has been discovered that they have in fact been financially supporting some organizations that have committed such acts. This is the reason for the petition of removing their tax-exempt status. For those who are interested, the electronic petition can be found at:

01-09-2003, 03:21 PM
for me PETA stand for
people eating tastey animals