Two-Handed Overhead Casting Rods [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Two-Handed Overhead Casting Rods


Greg Pavlov
01-06-2003, 02:46 AM
Why the lack of shorter two-handed overhead casting rods ?

I started to get into fly fishing 3 years ago. I knew that I would feel most comfortable with two-handed rods for anything over 6 wt, particularly for salt. I ran across a small company in northern NY, East Branch Rods, whose owner Eric rolled his own blanks. I had him build 2 two-handed rods for me, a 10.5' 9 wt and an 11' 7 wt. The first was to be for salt and the second for steelheading.

The 10.5' 9 wt was decent and I used it with some success on Cape Cod. Unfortunately there was a fundamental design flaw in the blank, causing it to break 3 times in the same place over a year and a half. I gave up on it after the third break.

The 11' 7 wt actually handled 9 wt lines much better than it did 7 wt. It had decent butt strength: I caught a 30+ lb carp with it in the curents of the Niagara River whirlpool. I used it on Cape Cod on and off until early last year when I played a Stupid Human Trick on it. In general, it did not cast as well as the 10.5 footer and did not do well at short distances, requiring a fair amount of backcasting to work out enough line to load it.

East Branch Rods went out of business this year so there was no chance for any more experiments on that front.

This fall, after my last trip to the coast (I'm in Buffalo,NY), I bought a Daiwa Lochmor Z 10 ft 8 wt and a 4" removable extension handle. This rod handles a range of lines reasonably well. The heaviest I've tried is a 37 ft 10 wt type 5 shooting head with which I can achieve casts in the 90-95 ft range. I am a mediocre caster. The main problem with this particular rod, from my point of view, at this stage of my development, is that it is on the short side.

I also have a Sage 6126 spey rod which I am beginning to learn to cast. I have well-used spinning rods from a Former Life in the 9' to 11' range.

Based on these experiences and where I seem to be heading casting-wise, it seems to me that an ideal rod for fishing salt from shore would be as follows, with variants in parens:

Length: 11 ft (11 - 11.5 ft)
Line wt, real life actual wt forward: 10 (9 - 11 wt)
5" lower handle (4.5 - 6 inches)
Characteristics:
Fast tip, but not "extra fast". Progressive loading. Able to make short casts reasonably well. Reasonably well-balanced for stripping chores.
Price ideally below $600


Actually, it would be nice to see a range of 3-4 rods to allow for a range of capabilities, tastes, and uses, filling in the gap between one-handers and the long Euro rods.

Such rods seem like a no-brainer to me, especially with the increase in salt fly fishing and all of us aging baby boomers with increasing aches and pains. Several years ago I went to a fly fishing show and tried to talk about this with the first 3 factory reps I came across. One didn't want to discuss it, another pointed me to a spey rod, and the third said that there was not enough market for "short two-handers."

Looking around, there appear to be a few items available that have some promise. T&T has a 1208 and a 1212. GLoomis has a Trilogy 8/9 wt 11' and an 8/9 wt 11.5' GLX. Talon lists several 12 footers in their Carinton and Highlander series. A Bob Meiser in the NW sells 10.5 footers in several weights. I don't have any first-hand experience with any of these rods so my on-paper impression that none of them really fit what I'm looking for may be wrong and unfair.

A possible sleeper is a St. Croix UL, a 10.5' single-handed 9 wt: could it be built as a two-handed rod with the blank extended downward for a lower handle ? I talked to a St. Croix tech support guy about this. His concern was that the upper handle should not extend upward more than 2 inches above where it is now to avoid overstressing the ferrule above it. So suppose that the blank is extended downward 5 inches for a lower handle and the upper handle be kept to a length within 2 inches of the one that St. Croix uses ? The result may be a very usable rod, albeit a bit on the light side. I don't know this blank - my only St. Croix UL was a 6 wt - so I may be completely off on this. But I'm tempted to pursue it unless someone has found something better.

Thanks for listening. I would appreciate any and all input on this.

Adrian
01-06-2003, 04:08 AM
I hear ya!

Gatti does an 11ft 9wt blank but I know very little about them. I picked up a temple fork 12.5 8/9 at a show recently, just for the surf - I already own 13ft and 15ft spey rods. The 15 makes mincemeat of the foulest conditions but get a bit heavy after a while. The action on the 13 is sweet but lacks the punch I'm looking for in the surf. The TF blank has a nice middle-tip feel which should keep me happy in the white stuff.

Juro posted some design thoughts on ideal specs for a saltwater 2-hander a while back. Hopefully the upsurge of interest from the salwater community in 2-handers will get the manufacturers thinking beyond trad. European and Spey actions.

Greg Pavlov
01-06-2003, 04:55 AM
I forgot about Gatti ! One problem with Gatti would be having to ship broken rods back to Italy. But some of Bob Meiser's rods are built on custom-designed Gatti blanks.

Re the longer rods, such as those you mention, I'm not ready for 12-15 footers. But I am waiting on a Daiwa Lochmor X 12.5' 8 wt. I ordered it for spey fishing, but I may try overhead casting with it as well. WWho knows, I may decide I like it. But 12.5 feet is awful long when you do a lot of strip retrieves. And trying to land a striper on one when you're standing in 2-3 feet of water a quarter mile from shore could be a real chore.

But if I have one, I am going to try a big fat spey rod & spey casts on the Cape Cod Canal this year. with a big sinking head & bulky flies.

I looked at a few of Juri's old posts. It looks like he and I were thinking somewhat in parallel, tho he seems to favor heavier rods. I wish I knew about this board earlier.

Greg Pavlov
01-06-2003, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by Greg Pavlov
...I'm not ready for 12-15 footers=


"I'm not ready for overhead casting 13-15 footers"

2HandTheSalt
01-06-2003, 12:26 PM
Greg, Juro has been talking about an 11' 11-weight since way back when.

FTR the T & T DH 1212-3 is not a 12-weight rod. It was actually designed to cast 30' 12-weight shooting heads. It is more like a 10 1/2-weight than a 12. It has exactly the kind of action you have described.

Shortly after the intro of the 1212, I inquired about possibly building a 10 1/2' rod for 9-weight lines. At the time, the idea was met with lukewarm response and did not go anywhere.

I was planning on having another run at that this Winter, when I stumbled across RB Meiser's website. He already has a good selection of two-handed rods in that size, plus some at 9'9".

I have not cast his rods yet, but after speaking with him on the phone, I would urge you to do the same. He is definitely speaking our language. He is also a very respected rod builder out West.

I have also tried repeatedly to get similar rods built that could retail under $ 400., but have gotten nowhere with this, but I will keep trying.

I have also inquired about building two-handers out of one-handed blanks and have been told that it would not work, and that the blank had to be specifically designed for two-handed casting. Maybe someone else will know why that is, but I don't know......

2HandTheSalt
01-06-2003, 12:29 PM
Meant to mention, if you intend to head to the Cape again to sling the two-hander, let me know if you want to get together. I have DH 1212-3's and the DH 1208-3 that you can try out.

juro
01-06-2003, 01:51 PM
Sorry I haven't had time to do this thread justice in terms of a good reply, but I will do so tonight. Definitely agree with you - the lengths and actions that make for a good Spey cast are not the same as those for a good two-handed overhand cast. There are many practical issues having to do with where you are standing, what's happening around you, the size of the flies, management of running line, etc, etc.

Although I've also had lukewarm responses from rod builders in the past I think I've finally hit paydirt and I am working on a "requirements specification" for a rod builder. With some luck there will be a suitable rod for this application available in prodution very soon. If you are interested in participating in the evaluation of these rods let me know; although I can not reveal the rod designer at this point.

Looking forward to talking more about this soon,
Juro

Greg Pavlov
01-06-2003, 07:10 PM
Greg, Juro has been talking about an 11' 11-weight since way back when.
Yeah, I feel a bit like I've just run up to the church door to nail up my theses only to find Martin Luther's already hanging there...
I have not cast [Bob Meiser's] rods yet, but after speaking with him on the phone, I would urge you to do the same.
I'll give him a call later this week. He clearly has vastly more experience casting fly rods than I do, so I'm sure that he has very good rationale for picking the 10.5 foot length. It seems on the short side to me, but that may be because I have a looser, sloppier overhead cast.
I have also inquired about building two-handers out of one-handed blanks and have been told that it would not work, and that the blank had to be specifically designed for two-handed casting. ......
Two-handed casting will definitely put more stress on a blank and perhaps much of that stress is concentrated in an area of the blank somewhat different from normal. Having said that, I'm not sure whether the issue is one of stress as opposed to one of how well the blank performs. My standard two-handed "surf casting" spinning rod for a few years, for instance, was built on a Gloomis GL3 9 ft 10 wt fly blank. I had several other, albeit shorter, spinning rods modified - with longer lower handles - to cast with two hands. All of these rods cast well.

Greg Pavlov
01-06-2003, 07:13 PM
Meant to mention, if you intend to head to the Cape again to sling the two-hander, let me know if you want to get together. I have DH 1212-3's and the DH 1208-3 that you can try out.
Does a bear [drink beer] in the woods ???? We will definitely be there the last week in May and I might get out there once before that, if I get lucky. Will make sure that I get in touch with you to see if we can get together.

Greg Pavlov
01-06-2003, 07:16 PM
Juro, I would love to get a chance to test-drive a two-hander: I've been waiting for one for a long time.

peter-s-c
01-17-2003, 03:05 PM
Just caught up to this thread.

I've used a 14' 9/10 wt. St. Croix twice on the surf, casting a WF-10-I clear striper line and found the job both easy casting and easy management of line in the surf.

I'm looking forward to trying the Lochmor X 9 wt. 11 wt. and the Blue 8/9 in the surf one of these days as I think all will do a good job. Daiwa supposedly designed the X model as a "dual use" rod, capable of spey and overhead casting. The 9 wt. will throw amazingly tiny loops and it is quite happy slinging a WF-10 or WF-11 overhead. Provided the wind isn't blowing too hard, I think the longer rods probably produce the most distance for the least effort, but it's amazing how much pressure a stiff wind can generate on a long blank. Something in the 10.5 to 12 range is probably a lot better when it's blowing hard.

I've read some very interesting things about the T&T 12X12 for very heavy tips - I'd like to try one, one day.

JDJones
01-17-2003, 03:43 PM
A friend of mine has modified all of his single handed salt water fly rods by adding a four to five inch fighting butts. He uses two hands to cast shooting heads from a kayak.

You might want to check out Cabelas two handed rods. Another friend of mine likes them so well he has two or three of them. I think he has them rigged up with windcutters and I've seen him overhead cast them on occassion.

Greg Pavlov
01-19-2003, 02:14 AM
Re various long rods for overhead casting in the surf


My problem with the longer rods like the Daiwas and Cabelas two-handers is handling them when you have to string line,
unhook a fish, untangle line around the rod, etc. I realize that I'm not very coordinated, so that may be the problem.

One example: I was in Pleasant Bay, at Minister's Point, down
at the end where there is that rip almost from shore out to the
first buoy. The tide had already dropped quite a bit, the water
was moving at a very nice clip, and I was just about halfway to the buoy. I was using an 11' 2-hander (East Branch) and had a 22-24 inch striper on. That's a pretty small striper, but I was having a heck of a time getting it in close enough to grab onto it, what with the fish moving around and the distance between me and the rod tip. I didn't want to grab the leader because I had a relatively light tippet and I didn't want to leave the striper with a clouser in its mouth. Getting back to shore was not a very good alternative. I finally put the rod down on the water and pulled the fish in hand-over-hand, knowing I could let the line slip if the fish tried to bolt, at the same time hoping that something weird wouldn't happen causing me to lose the rod & reel somewhere half-underwater behind me in the current. And this was with an 11-footer.

How do you folks deal with something like this ? If you're on shore it's much easier, you pull the fish up on the sand, with the waves to help you, and then you're in pretty good shape.

ALSO: how do you manage things towards the tip end of a long rod without laying your reel down on the sand ? For a while I would take the rod apart into two sections and then just keep both in the air. Now that I use reels with sealed drags, I'll let the reel rest on the sand and then rinse it in the surf before casting again....which doesn't work well where the surf is scouring up sand and it's in suspension in the water.

Writing this makes me wish it was May right now. I can't wait to get back to fish the salt again.

peter-s-c
01-19-2003, 07:44 PM
I don't know if I'd want to use a two hander while wading in Pleasant Bay as it would be a handful. I used my 14 footer in the surf but I was standing right on the water's edge not wading deep. FWIW, I had no trouble landing steelies with the 14' footer.

Greg Pavlov
01-20-2003, 12:21 AM
FWIW, I had no trouble landing steelies with the 14' footer


Rub it in, why doncha :-)

I could see not using a 2-hander in some situations. But I do know that after my three days' fishing on the Cape in the fall, during which I used a slightly overweight single-handed 8 wt, the right side of my body took about 6 weeks to recover, tho I did fish during that time. Some (much ?) of it may simply be bad technique.

juro
01-20-2003, 07:52 AM
Greg - 1/2 to bouy it's hard to land a fish in current with the lower half of an 8ftr never mind 14'. Yes, when in that kind of water it's hard to land any fish - imagine a 20 bc steelhead standing that deep! Since starting my 2-hnd striper fishing trials in 1995 I've found that:

- 2-hnd overhand rods apply in some situations, where they excel over singhand. All other situations are best fished singlehand

- spey fishing applies in some situations, even narrower than 2-hnd overhand rods do - like compressed currents in inlets, but only when salmon/steelhead-style fish landing techniques can be used. Keep in mind steelhead/salmon are usually big enough to warrant walking the fish to shore where most stripers are too small to bother, with the occasional submarine. If the fishing isn't good along the shore then you'd probably be better off fishing single handed rods.

- Spey rods other than the few niches are generally wrong for atlantic gamefishing. As mentioned earlier 2-hnd rods for overhead casting excel in certain cases. They are very different.

There will be options coming to help cure this mismatch very soon... :smokin:

Greg Pavlov
01-20-2003, 09:53 AM
Juro, this is the two-handed overhead-casting thread. I agree, the spot I was talking about is not ideal. I've fished it with both one and two-handers and it was a problem any way I look at it (`xcept that in the spring, I've caught at least a few fish every time I've been there :-) For me, the use of a two-hander is driven first and foremost by necessity: I can't manipulate a one-handed rod heavier than 7 wt for longer than an hour or two without setting in some serious pain for quite a while, sometimes weeks. So it's not that I'm looking for some sort of technical advantage here. So having decided to use a two-hander, I would like one that is not particularly long to lessen the sort of problem I described. To me, 11 feet seems to be a decent compromise, tho I could settle for a really good 10.5 footer if I knew that there were no alternatives.

juro
01-20-2003, 10:00 AM
Greg -

Sorry, I skimmed thru your previous posts and hadn't realized you were quite clear about your reasons for using the rods until I acutally "read" them!

When do you plan on hitting the beaches this year? We'll have to hook up for a two-handed flyrod get together with anyone interested, I have the Nauset 4x4 permit every year.

peter-s-c
01-20-2003, 11:29 AM
Juro, I think the two-handers have a bit more potential on the salt.

My two-hander exposure in the surf was very limited but I discovered a number of positive things compared to me previous single hander outings.

- much less fatiguing
- could cast further
- could shoot over incoming surf
- cleared sloping beach on the backcast
- easily maintained a tight line when the surf swept the fly up toward the beach
- could continue in a bad wind that caused all of the other fly rodders to quit

It took a while to adjust to the fast strip and manage the stripping basket, but that was just a case of getting used to it. I have not had any problem landing fish with long rods as I always work them into the shallows before I try to handle or net them.

juro
01-20-2003, 01:33 PM
Thanks Peter -

I am not sure if you read my response right, but I like two-handers in salt, but was differentiating spey from 2-hnd overhd rods. By your response it sounds like you think of them as one and the same?

Anything you mentioned with the word "surf" in it is within the situations I have found two handed overhd rods (not Spey rods) to be useful in. I fish and guide on Cape Cod each year and have explored this fairly extensively. My findings largely agree with your points with the follwing exception: wind.

Although I am a proponent of twohanded overhd rods I will bet you a lobstah dinner anyday that I will match your casts in a stiff wind coming onto your casting shoulder with my 9wt 9ft rplxi. It takes a lot of wind to get me to "quit fishing" because I use the wind when I cast, and fish my backcast about as well as my forward cast. I never cast with the wind on my rod shoulder. Most of the hardcore striper anglers on this board fish in winds that send the spinning guys home! I've found it far less effective to use a two-hander in a cross wind unless you switch hands and cast left-handed (off-handed) and I am quite certain I can outcast all but the best off-handed casters with my single-handed back cast assisted by a strong wind.

What has yet to be mentioned (or re-mentioned, try searches):

Rocks: watching someone landing a schoolie from rocks or jetties with a long rod borders on comic relief - unless you have a ghillie to climb down the black algae to get it. If you don't have the right shoreline you are much disadvantaged.

Boats: no explanation necessary, some skiffs are shorter than some rods

Sight fishing: loss of accuracy and quick responsiveness, bigger shadow

The right surf two-hander has not been invented yet. One that is specifically targeted at that role is about to become available...

When do you visit the Cape? Maybe I can get your feedback on this new rod.

marketic
01-20-2003, 08:56 PM
hey, Greg Pavlov--

I was intrigued by your description of fighting stripers with a double-handed rod and how you handle the "beaching" process. I've been fiddling with double handed rods for almost twenty-five years now and I'm proud to say I've never broken one while fishing, neither during casting nor when landing a fish. That having been said, I've also NEVER laid one of my rods down on a beach. In fact, I cringe when I think of doing that to a rod (or a reel)!

Like so much of what constitutes fly-fishing, there are a hundred techniques that all produce the same desired effect. I developed a hand-lining technique that might work for you when you’re striper fishing. I should tell you I fish for steelhead. I have used rods from six to twenty feet long for these fish but no matter what length rod I use, I exclusively hand-line my fish when beaching them. Why? Because no fish is worth a broken rod and as you know, beaching a fish puts a tremendous amount of stress on a rod.

You probably already know that Steelhead are strong fighters. My tippet: 8 – 10 lb test. I presume this would be similar to striper fishing? Like a striper, once a steelhead is hooked and peels off some line and perhaps strikes wonder in us with a jump or two, we inevitably enter into the knockdown, drag-out part of the fight. This is the part I want to get over with quickly because I want to let her go. And start fishing again.

So at this stage, I very carefully swing the rod tip back behind me so I can get hold of the line or the tippet. I keep minimum pressure on the fish and loosen my drag (or strip out line) to get the proper angle on the rod to make the line grab. While doing this, I make absolutely sure (and this is the critical part) never to let the line (or tippet) wind around a guide or the rod tip. If the line is free to zing and the fish decides to run, you just calmly let it run. Then you start the process over again once it looks like the fish is going to behave.

So once you get hold of the line (or tippet), you tuck your rod under your armpit. Then you gently hand-line the fish to you. Again, if it runs, let it run. Take the rod out of your armpit, thumb the reel, and let her do her thing. With regards to hand lining: There’s nothing more sensitive than the human hand for a drag system and if your knots are sound, you won’t break fish off.

The critical part throughout this is to always keep the line (or tippet) free of the rod tip. Then you’re in business. It sure beats laying a rod down on the beach and putting a reel in the sand (or saltwater!) What will cure you forever of doing that is to have a fish take off at the last minute and jerk your rod and reel across the beach (or pull it away from you just out of reach when you "lay it down in the water"!

Back when I was young and stupid, I owned twenty acres of river front property up in British Columbia (that’s all I owned in the world in those days, besides my Toyota and my fishing gear). It was a veritable steelhead paradise and I blush when I think of the bounty I had in those days. It was normal for me to start at the top of “my” run, fish my way down to the bottom, and hook at least seven to ten fish in the process. No people, no boats, just me and an obscene pile of fish. The catch was I had to wade out to my chest to get to where the mother lode was. It required going all the way to the tail-out, making a very dicey wade, then wading a hundred yards back up through the middle of a sizeable river (chest deep) to get to where the hot spot was. To “beach” a fish was out of the question. So with every fish I hooked (nice wild fish up to twenty five pounds) I learned to play the fish while standing waist deep in the water without moving. I held my ground and developed a technique in order to do so. I let the fish come unglued, then during the knockdown drag-out process, used the technique indicated above. I also used a pair of needle-nose pliers. I attached a monofilament loop to the handle and let them dangle off my wrist until I needed them. Then I would hand-line the fish up to where I stood. At the critical moment, I would grab the needle-nose pliers and twist the fly out of their mouth. It would have made for an amusing video when at times the fish would come unglued at the last moment, take off between my legs. I do not recall breaking a fish off when executing this maneuver. Since then, I have rarely broken a fish off when hand-lining from shore using this technique (yes, I retie my knots at least once for every hour of casting).

Try it. You’ll see that once you start communicating calm tranquil thoughts through the line into the fish as you hand line her to the beach, the fish will figure out you’re a nice even-tempered guy and will swim right up to you and let you unhook her without a fuss. She may even inspect her fingernails while waiting for you to take the hook out. What you do to that fish after that is your own business.

peter-s-c
01-20-2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by juro
Thanks Peter -

I am not sure if you read my response right, but I like two-handers in salt, but was differentiating spey from 2-hnd. By your response it sounds like you think of them as one and the same?

Anything you mentioned with the word "surf" in it is within the situations I have found two handed rods (not Spey rods) to be useful in. I fish and guide on Cape Cod each year and have explored this fairly extensively. My findings largely agree with your points with the follwing exception: wind.


When do you visit the Cape? Maybe I can get your feedback on this new rod.

My next trip is a question mark but if I get to go this coming season, we'll see what we can arrange. You've got me intrigued about the rod.

About spey and two-handers, ya, I don't make a big distinction between them - fast vs. traditional I suppose.

About the wind. I had a heavy south wind on my rod side blowing up the beach and I just leaned the 14 footer over a bit and kept on fishing. I'd pick up line on my left side with an air rollcast then then backcast and blast.

I'm anxious to try the Daiwa 9 wt. on the surf as that rod throws the tiniest overhead cast loops of any two-hander I've used. It should be a great 'wind' rod.

juro
01-20-2003, 09:36 PM
Well I agree that technically a Spey rod is a two-handed rod, but it would be a bit of a stretch to say that all two-handed rods are Spey rods. For instance, the Sage 7136-4 is a spey rod. No one would subject themself to casting that overhand for very long - it's a terrible overhand rod but a wonderful spey rod.

Sure some are dual purpose but I would argue that none are ideal for both and that the right rod for the big surf (race point to nauset to south beach to the east side of S. Monomoy Island, Rhody, etc) other than the obvious common design of the reel seat - is worlds apart from the rod that throws a d-loop and long belly line.

It makes no sense that with the high cost of spey rods one would buy it and then use it in a manner that is less than ideal. Many spey rods are great at spey casting. For the surf I believe there is an ideal configuration, and it simply does not exist.... YET.

GregoryPavlov
01-20-2003, 10:24 PM
Juro: When do you plan on hitting the beaches this year? We'll have to hook up for a two-handed flyrod get together with anyone interested, I have the Nauset 4x4 permit every year.

I'm planning to camp out in the Nauset Beach Motel & Cottage complex for about 8-9 days starting the 24th of May, tho the first weekend I'll spend much of the time with my wife.

Speaking of Nauset Beach: If anyone on this board runs into anyone who found a Lamson Litespeed 3.5 spool filled with a Teeny XD-300 line in the beach parking lot last year, it's mine. Will pay a reward for its safe return !

GregoryPavlov
01-20-2003, 10:41 PM
Marketic, I don't have a problem landing fish on shore. It's when I'm standing way out in the water that I run into problems. Actually, I think that what I've been doing is somewhat similar to what you describe, except that I've been lettiing the rod "float" in the water. The biggest danger in that, I'm guessing, is that the line might wrap around the rod and then something gives if the fish bolts. I'll try keeping it under my arm next time.

Someone on the usenet flyfishing group described a method he uses. I'm not sure that I completely understood it, but it involves letting the rod wrap around his back.

juro
01-20-2003, 10:55 PM
That timing works, we'll talk then. If you lost your password, email webmaster and Sean or I will reset it for you. PS - you should do it to keep your post count up.

peter-s-c
01-21-2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by juro
Well I agree that technically a Spey rod is a two-handed rod, but it would be a bit of a stretch to say that all two-handed rods are Spey rods. For instance, the Sage 7136-4 is a spey rod. No one would subject themself to casting that overhand for very long - it's a terrible overhand rod but a wonderful spey rod.

.....

It makes no sense that with the high cost of spey rods one would buy it and then use it in a manner that is less than ideal. Many spey rods are great at spey casting. For the surf I believe there is an ideal configuration, and it simply does not exist.... YET.

Agreed on the first point for sure. I tried overhead casting the 7136 - YUUUCCKK!!

About the second point, I wouldn't assume that all current 2-hdrs are high cost and less than ideal for the surf. If you believe Daiwa's advertising blurb, the Lochmor X was designed primarily to be an overhead casting rod and it is very cheap. Cast one and you believe it.

Traditional, long line spey rods aren't going to be great in the surf, that's a given, but those faster rods intended for shooting line off the cast shouldn't be a problem.

juro
01-21-2003, 09:02 AM
Again, I differentiate Spey rods from overhd Two-handers. Again, you do not ;)

There are a number of reasons besides just the taper that I will reveal when the prototype is ready in a month or two... but there's no rush as long as this cold front hangs over us!

peter-s-c
01-21-2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by juro
Again, I differentiate Spey rods from overhd Two-handers. Again, you do not ;)



I thought I had? "Traditional, long line spey rods aren't going to be great in the surf, that's a given, but those faster rods intended for shooting line off the cast shouldn't be a problem."

One thing we are clear on - that cold front - brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I had intended to try my striper line on the 9 wt. just for giggles, but one taste of the wind chill and I camped out by the fireplace instead.

So are you just gonna tease us all winter with hints about this "magic" rod? :razz: