Supinski's book [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Supinski's book


peter-s-c
12-23-2002, 09:18 AM
Just treated myself to "Steelhead Dreams" and the passage on steelhead feeding really caught my attention. I would not have thought that steelhead would take so few baitfish. It made me realize that I better increase the nymph count in my flybox.

I've heard and read mixed reviews on Matt's book yet I've found the first quarter of the book that I've read so far to be packed with useable info. I'm a bit surprised why some people dump on this book. Maybe because it challenges some assumptions?

removed_by_request
12-23-2002, 10:00 AM
I think more people dump on him than his book.

Might have to do with attitude my friend.

pmflyfisher
12-23-2002, 10:39 AM
The book has a lot of technical information on how to fish the great lakes steelhead on the fly but does not single out specific rivers or locations thank god. I learned new things and I have been fishing here for 22 years and reading everything available.

Nymphs rule, join the clan. If you want to do traditional wet or spey fly swinging that can work at times but overall to touch fish consistently it is nymphs low and slow IMHO.

I hope to meet Matt in person at the upcoming Mid west fly show in January, I have only trade a couple of emails with him to date.

Thinking of booking a steelie trip with him though for my youngest boy and me this spring.

PM Out

removed_by_request
12-23-2002, 11:06 AM
Met him at the show 2 years ago, he drew a crowd.

Saw him chuck and duck the Mo' with a spey out fit he was pretty adept at slinging the lead.

If you are thinking about heading up there check out Glenn B. and his crew, PM me if you want more info.

BigDave
12-23-2002, 11:26 AM
I'm currently reading "Dreams" myself and really enjoying it. Supinski challenges a lot of myths about GL steel behavior, which I really enjoy. I bought the book because I was looking for some straight answers about the history, health and behavior of GL chrome and have found honest, no BS opinions in his writing. Regardless of your thoughts on this fishery, this book is very well done :D

Great pics too!

Happy Holidays to all!

Big Dave

peter-s-c
12-23-2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by BigDave
. . . Supinski challenges a lot of myths about GL steel behavior, which I really enjoy. . . .
Big Dave

That's what I'm finding and it's causing me to do a rethink on how I approach these fish. Might even turn me into a nymphermaniac, though never a C&Der. I'll use worms before that.

:hehe:

removed_by_request
12-23-2002, 01:24 PM
Nymph's and caddis are candy to our Steelhead. Imagine the amount of bugs they hit in the stream as fry/smolts.

I even got one once on a pink plastic worm under a float. Look out Roland...

peter-s-c
12-23-2002, 01:29 PM
given the years I've been fishing for 8" smolts with a two or three weight. If I've got Matt right, I just have to think of my GL steelie as an overgrown smolt.

I can manage that. :hehe:

pmflyfisher
12-23-2002, 05:36 PM
Oh they love nymphs I went through the purist wet fly and spey fly stuff 10 -13 years ago, after fishing through the same runs which I had got got skunked on with them, I went back through with the hexs, stones, and caddis. The light went on in my brain. They like these better then anything else and I am out here at least to touch a fish occassionally. I am not out here to watch beautiuls wets and speys drift beautifully down the river drift after drift with out any touches and get snagged in log jams all day.

Believe me there will still be days with nymphs you will be skunked, so it is still quite a challenge with nymphs.

If you looked in my fly walletts now you will not see many wets or speys, a few just in case I decide to swing them.

Its a good book and photography is very good, just glad he did not give away any of my favorite spots :hehe:

Go out buy some emu featers, filo plume feathers, gray, olive, and tan maribou and tie up some motion with out movement nymphs you may be surprised on your results.

PM OUT

P.S. Peter, worms ? you know I hardly ever see anybody using worms for steelhead in Michigan, wigglers, wax worms, and spawn seem to be the live bait they use down here now. Not that I ever look at though.;) ;)

removed_by_request
12-23-2002, 06:18 PM
That Matt is a real genius figuring out these fish eat nymphs/caddis/rock worms.

The PM wiggler (nymph type fly) was around way before he got the idea to popularize nymphs. Also a guy named Teeney saw the nymph light way before Matt. All he did is pass on knowledge he has picked up from other fisherman. His book is ok, but the Linesman/Neveda book and the one by the Kuistch(SP?) bros is equally as good.

BobK
12-23-2002, 07:07 PM
FYI - While the Kustich writings are good, he is really despised for his over publicizing the local tribs in NY! It's to the point where you can't even find a parking space, and the license plates are from Rocky Mtn. states, California and even Alaska!

BobK:rolleyes:

removed_by_request
12-23-2002, 08:05 PM
Mr Matt has done his share of publisizing rivers in lower Mi. the Dowagiac for one. that was an underfished river until his Fly Fish America article on it. Presto instant parking lot. He has done this to other rivers, but the Dog really comes to mind, for I fished that system before he figured out fish were there.

peter-s-c
12-23-2002, 08:24 PM
You forgot Ontario (that's why I always go in my friend's van - the one with the NY plates.)

pmflyfisher
12-23-2002, 09:41 PM
MJYP

I fished the Dog in early 1980s before there were steelhead and salmon there. Just browns back then and some small mouths but nice and quiet. It was not a secret to the old timers in South Bend who were trout fisherman. They showed me it when I lived there from 79-86. Also fished its upper stretches for browns some nice areas back in the michigan farm lands.

The Linsenman/Nevala book I did not find that good. It was OK no great enlightenements technically but disclosed more GL rivers to be fished. Probably upset some locals I am sure disclosing these new rivers.

It is true the use of nymphs goes back into the early 70s. Dave Richey writes of them in his book GLs Steelheading for Everybody which was released in 1976. The first steelhead I landed in 1981 was on a Spring Wiggler. So nymphs for GL steelhead go back almost 30 years. I did not learn to much new on nymphs from the MS book, but did in other technical areas of GL steelheading.

The R. Kusitch book did not do to much for me. Talked more about the eastern great lake tribs which Bob K and his colleagues are now upset about.

A good cheap book is the paper back " Fly Fishing for salmon and steelhead of the great lakes - Kenn Filkins. LT $ 20 Borders has it in Schaumburg and Oak Brook has some good technical information.

Overall I think the MS Steelhead Dreams book is the best available at this time on GL steelhead.

One other surprising book is Spinner Fishing for Steelhead, Salmon, and Trout - Jed Davis. It has some excellent technical information on PNW and michigan steelhead behavior and how to fish them etc. Jed is a michigan native who I met accidentally in 1981 at the Deer Lick run, we fished together and he told me he was moving to Oregon in 91, so this was one of his last times fishing you know what river. Did not who he was until the book came out in 1985. Not sure what he is doing now he started a tackle company in Oregon.

Bobk,

Sorry to hear about all of the out staters as that book and other magazine articles onthe eastern GL tribs is how I came to know over the last 5 years of the good fishing there. We also have lots of out of state plates in Michigan and Wisconsin rivers.

Wonder who may be writing the next book on GLs steelheading.

I have many of the PNW steelheading books also suchs as T. Coombs , L. Waller, B. Arnold, etc...

PM Out

removed_by_request
12-23-2002, 10:41 PM
Read the Jed Davis book many years ago, used to buy my spinner parts from him.

The linesman book give it a new look, from the eyes of the guide. Which was interesting. I have been lucky to meet many of those in the book. I found their rivers insights and antics to prove them to be real peopel.

As to MS never impressed me much, i think I sent an e-mail explaining why. He has done a lot to exploit the fishery we love.

Fished the Dog below the old dam in the mid 80's Skamania used to run up there in nice pods. After MS's articla the 1.5 mile piece of water was clogged with drift boats. Saw some joker try to run a jet sled up there.

You and I have fished many of the same spots, most of them not so famous. All you need is a good map and legs to discover them.

pmflyfisher
12-23-2002, 11:00 PM
Never fished the dog in the mid 80s I was all tied up with 3 boys in baseball/football and international business travel. Glad I missed the drift boat parade on that creek. Don't even want to think about a jet sled on it. Poor waders, would have needed to increase my life insurance before fishing there.

I wonder what happened to Jed Davis, he must have gotten out of the fishing business ?

PM Out

West Mich
12-23-2002, 11:16 PM
I would like to comment more here but won't. I'll just say I'm surprised any serious steelheader would discover new information in the book. My positive comment: The book has many glossy color photos.

BTW, here's a pro's hint that Matt didn't publish: Use an ultra wide angle lens for all your photos and hold your fish out towards the camera. Makes all your fish look big to downright huge.

Lipripper
12-23-2002, 11:42 PM
:hehe: I got a big kick out of Matt's creative photography too. My favorite part of the book was the fly plates in the back. My first GL Steel book is still my favorite. Linsenman and Nevala's Great Lakes Steelhead. Isn't there a book of GL patterns coming out soon by some guy from Indiana?

pmflyfisher
12-24-2002, 08:09 AM
Yes Dustin Harley from South Bend - Ripple Guide Service has one in the works. I almost sent him so of my patterns last winter when he was soliciting input and then I thought why am I doing this, and did not.:D :D :devil:

Hows the new sculpin coming ?

Getting some new materials for christmas for you know which pattern we have been discussing off line.

Have a good holiday.

PM Out

peter-s-c
12-24-2002, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by West Mich

BTW, here's a pro's hint that Matt didn't publish: Use an ultra wide angle lens for all your photos and hold your fish out towards the camera. Makes all your fish look big to downright huge.

BTW, that's a nice 10" fish in your avatar. :D

peter-s-c
12-24-2002, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
Yes Dustin Harley from South Bend - Ripple Guide Service has one in the works
PM Out

Had a trip with Dustin - he' a god guy and we had an excellent day. He however, was not having a good year, having broken about five rods and a motor. He told us to take a 4 wt. with us so we could play with the little guys if things were quiet. I had to move around in the boat at times, trading places with Dustin and on each occasion, I'd pick up my 4 wt. and move it with me. Didn't trust Dustin near it. :hehe: Told him why at the end of the day and he near bust a gut laughing.

Lipripper
12-24-2002, 10:13 AM
Hal, Haven't worked on the sculpin again. I had a couple noble efforts, but, both protoypes had things go wrong when I fished them. It is too much time investment to have em fall apart on the 5th cast. Live and learn.:rolleyes: . I have a feeling ole St Nick might bring me a few things to start wrapping my own sticks. I have wanted to do it for a while and now is the perfect winter for it. Not alot of fish so........ I had a cool little idea pop up the other night when tying "those" patterns we talked about. We should agree to come up with like 6 original patterns and swap em. Wadoyathink?

John

Have a holly-jolly......
:D

pmflyfisher
12-24-2002, 10:23 AM
Lipripper,

Hmm a michigan secret "original" steelhead fly swap. Sounds interesting. Lets discuss off line.

I built a couple of fly rods and believe it or not they are still together, amazing. Even after multiple encounters with the bg kings.

It is not hard get the book/ video and just take your time. Maybe I should do that for a new spey rod but a 13 footer has a whole lot of guides to wrap which takes most of the time.

Have a great holiday.

PM Out

removed_by_request
12-24-2002, 12:18 PM
Hal,

The Dog was a sweet little hide away until he wrote that dam article. They ought to take away his jet sled for a year for that intelligent move.

Jed moved and decided to concentrate on fishing for big PNW bows and fishing the sound.

He used to write articles from time to time in STS. This business is like every other one, how many new wrinkles are there out there?

He hit it right with the spinner thing, which peaked and ebbed. Used to buy his parts until he had a one time going out of business sale, where he jacked up the prices 20%. Goota love capitalism.

As to MS I could not agree more; his tatics are no big thing if you have been chasing the silver ones for years. I also don't like that he guides on Trail and writes articles on it. Thats all that place needs is more fisherman.

Greg Pavlov
01-01-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by peter-s-c
Just treated myself to "Steelhead Dreams" ..


Would have been glad to lend it to you....

I've heard and read mixed reviews on Matt's book yet I've found the first quarter of the book that I've read so far to be packed with useable info. I'm a bit surprised why some people dump on this book. Maybe because it challenges some assumptions? [/QUOTE]

Even with my very limited knowldge of fly fishing,
I found his book interesting. My biggest problem with
it is understanding what he is trying to say in some
cases. Take a look at the spey casting section, try to
pretend you don't know anything about the casts, and
see if there is anywhere near enough information to
understand what they are, even the basic of them.

Greg Pavlov
01-01-2003, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
MJYP

One other surprising book is Spinner Fishing for Steelhead, Salmon, and Trout - Jed Davis. It has some excellent technical information on PNW and michigan steelhead behavior and how to fish them etc. Jed is a michigan native who I met accidentally in 1981 at the Deer Lick run, we fished together and he told me he was moving to Oregon in 91, so this was one of his last times fishing you know what river. Did not who he was until the book came out in 1985. Not sure what he is doing now he started a tackle company in Oregon.


Yes, that is a decent book, with some novel ideas. For some reason Jed D. reminded my of Jim Teeny. He was hard to talk to on the phone, tho, even when placing an order. Running a spinner/parts company didn't really fit his personality, I think. He ended up selling his spinner company to someone else who changed the name.

peter-s-c
01-01-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Greg Pavlov



Would have been glad to lend it to you....

Even with my very limited knowldge of fly fishing,
I found his book interesting. My biggest problem with
it is understanding what he is trying to say in some
cases. Take a look at the spey casting section, try to
pretend you don't know anything about the casts, and
see if there is anywhere near enough information to
understand what they are, even the basic of them.

I've about a third of the way in (been reading Skues lately). Just took a look at the spey section and it looks like he's just glossed over a bit Maxwell's .Art and Science of Speycasting book. It isn't the strength of the book. :)

Welcome to the spey clave, btw.

removed_by_request
01-02-2003, 07:49 AM
Have to agree about Jed, the way he breaks down the presentation is akin to fly fishing.

Spinner fishing taught me the nuances of proper presentation which I applied to fly fishing.

pmflyfisher
01-02-2003, 09:02 AM
My 20 years of catskill trout rivers nymph experience prepared me GL steelhead fly fishing techniques. Also fished a lot spinners on ulta light spinnning 2 lb test trout gear back east. What happened to that technique any body do it anymore. ?

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-02-2003, 02:45 PM
Once you hang up the spinner gear its hard to bring it back.

Best way to fish NW Ind. creeks is with a spinner hands down. Too brushy and log strewn to fly fish properly.

pmflyfisher
01-02-2003, 07:05 PM
Yep those creeks are not for the bug rod. Thats why I very seldom fished them.

PM Out

peter-s-c
01-02-2003, 07:49 PM
How small a stream are we talking about?

pmflyfisher
01-02-2003, 08:08 PM
3-15 yds across max, mostly 5-10 yards, LOTS of overhanging trees, downed trees in the creek. You can spit across it in some areas. Its like a jungle in there in the summer time and mosquitos can be wicked. Oh yes and I forgot to mention the Indiana clay banks and mud. Slippery as you know what.

Can be filled with steelhead and salmon many times through out the year.

I don't need to catch a steelhead that bad (yet).

PM Out

peter-s-c
01-02-2003, 08:25 PM
Sounds like one of our local creeks - it can be jammed with steelies and chinook and this fall I bought a BassPro 8'6" 7 wt. to fish it. As I've fished the Smokies and other places with itty-bitty creeks, it's an enjoyable challenge. However, I'll pass on the summer skeeters.

pmflyfisher
01-02-2003, 08:33 PM
Plus our area has a high occurrence of the West Niles Virus carried by the mosquitoes. Lots of deaths due to it.

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-02-2003, 09:06 PM
You forgot about the huge DEER FLYS!!!

Those bastards are bigger than a smolt.

Our creeks are real combat fishing, great winter/fall fun. The summer sucks. Now is my fav. time of the year to hit them.

Thought many times about a float and center pin setup, tried fly fishing them. It was a series of roll casts followed by another series of roll casts. I have managed to flick a single spey with a 10.5'er and do the swing thing. Basically its spinnung rod water. Lots of fun and down right deadly.

Any lad who says he fly fishes that water properly is full of what Hanks pups leave in the yard.

peter-s-c
01-02-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by mjyp

Any lad who says he fly fishes that water properly is full of what Hanks pups leave in the yard.

Now there's a challenge; if I've ever read one. :smokin:

7 wts. at dawn, my friend

removed_by_request
01-03-2003, 05:13 AM
If you come down my friend I will gladly show you every nook and cranny.

Even take you to a nice pub for steaks and brews.

pmflyfisher
01-03-2003, 09:22 AM
What about me, I don't know those creeks real well and they are the closest to me.

Summer sxxx's there, your right I thought I was going to be eaten alive on trail one time. I said no big skamania is worth this and I was fanatical in the quest at that time.

Its spinning and float fishing water to me, not my style, you know I am a purist ethical fly fisherman. :chuckle:

PM Out

P.S. Do you think I could pull a 20 lber out of there ?

peter-s-c
01-03-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by mjyp
If you come down my friend I will gladly show you every nook and cranny.

Even take you to a nice pub for steaks and brews.

It's a deal, as soon as it warms up enough in the spring. We'll invite Hal too if he promises not to complain too loudly about the skeeters.
:D

a 20 pounder eh?

removed_by_request
01-03-2003, 10:07 AM
No skeets in the spring, if Hal can pull him self away from dog sitting he can come too.

Spring around here is March/April so get ready guys.

pmflyfisher
01-03-2003, 03:45 PM
It may be earlier this year.

BTW, lets take him to the sections where you have to rope yourself down the banks to the remote zipper lip honey pools.

You know "Steelhead Canyoneering" techniques. Reminds me have to get a new mountaineering rope.

PM Out

peter-s-c
01-03-2003, 06:11 PM
bought the popcorn, seen the movie.

In Scene 1, our friendly Yanks help the portly Canuck rappel down the slippery bank. Ever considerate of his welfare, they hold his rod and vest contain all his flies and his flask of 18 yro Macallans. But horrors, the rope is too short and our portly hero is left dangling between heaven and hell. Meanwhile, our intrepid Yanks, offering to go for help, instead go off to clean out the honey holes, the fly boxes, and the flask (not necessarily in that order) before they recall where they misplaced the cell phone required for the 911 call.

So, you rappel, I'll watch.

Need me to hold anything while you climb down? BTW, I'll bring the videocam.

pmflyfisher
01-03-2003, 07:03 PM
LOL :chuckle: :chuckle:

Now wheres that good old canuck spirit for adventure and risk ?

Seriously, there are some fellows which do this, you can see the rope burns on the trees they use to rapel down to the remote honey holes.

Aaah to be young again and risk tolerant.

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-03-2003, 08:07 PM
Ropes!! Where is the adventure in that? Don't believe what you read on TSS.

Never had to use them to get up and down the banks.

There is always more than one apporach to that hole.

One of my fishing partners is 80 years old, when he was in his 70's he would fish the spots you are talking about.

These young steelheaders are too soft.

I'll get you guys in out and about no problem.

peter-s-c
01-03-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by mjyp

I'll get you guys in out and about no problem.

Uh huh

sure ;)

You believe him, eh Hal?

pmflyfisher
01-03-2003, 08:47 PM
There are some holes at Sulak and Upper Branch the ropes would help on believe me. I think I am to old for those now. Have to be a mountain goat to get to some of those by foot.

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-03-2003, 10:06 PM
Sulak and upper branch are not in NW Indiana we will be fine there.

Fished both (Sulak and UB) many times, and we never needed a rope.

You guys are in good hands in Indiana.

Lipripper
01-05-2003, 12:41 AM
:hehe: You guys crack me up. I'm glad you all wern't on the Smith with me last summer. Woke up the first morning to 12" of fresh snow and 40.......in the middle of June. 5 days of camping/floating/fishing in Montana with summer clothes in that weather. How that for soft MJYP?

LR

pmflyfisher
01-05-2003, 08:37 AM
LR

That would not of effected me at all. Your dealing with a hard core cold weather experienced guy here. I ALWAYS pack some cold weather clothes.

Cold weather also keeps the Bubbas and the non serious FF off our rivers, no sense in the Bubbas trying to drink slushy beer. They can do that up at Government Lake Inn, play pool, and watch the monster truck pulls in warmth :devil:

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-05-2003, 05:45 PM
Hal,

You gotta hand it to LR 12" snow in June. No one is prepared for that.

I see him having no problem dealing with the muck banks in NW Ind. he is a bad dude!!!! If he fished in his shorts then even I am in awe.:rolleyes:

pmflyfisher
01-05-2003, 06:18 PM
I know his DB does not have a heater in it, his feet were frozen after floating the PM M-37 - Gleasons this week.

He sounds hard core to me, my type of GL steelheader.

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-05-2003, 08:09 PM
heater in a db?? never!!! thats why God invented oars.

Lipripper
01-06-2003, 07:53 AM
WANTED: Propane heaters for drift boat use. Prefer large capacity with enormous heads to produce tropical conditions in confined area during cold winter months.:hehe: The funny thing is, I have been shopping around a little for heaters. Mostly for the short haired hound though. He froze his A$$ off last week. He had to stay home yesterday cause it was too cold. Man....he was cold last night.....towards me.:rolleyes: Little brat.

No shorts last summer. I have never lived in my waders day in and out for five straight days until then though. I had every almost every piece of warm clothes I brought on me. It was worth it to see the look on those Montana boy's faces when the Michigan boys pulled out full sinking lines and 6" long sculpins and started wackin fish left and right. Gotta love high dirty water.:smokin:

pmflyfisher
01-06-2003, 09:36 AM
I think you also need an enclosed see thru canopy on DBs during michigan winter floats and an open bar. :D

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-06-2003, 10:14 AM
May as well just stay in Edies then.

pmflyfisher
01-06-2003, 11:06 AM
Edies whats that ?

The last few years I have been going by myself, I fish from dawn to dusk, don't get back to the motel until 7 PM, am exhausted from all day on the river, grab something at the market, or other fast food, go to room eat, and hit the bed by 9-9:30 PM, get up a 4:30 Am to 5 :00 AM and do it all over again. Maybe I tie a few flies and plot tomorrows strategy in the 1-2 hours I have while eating.

The days of going out for a big dinner and drinks after each hard day of steelhead fishing are over for me.

We use to go Government Lake Inn, Starr Lake Inn, M-37 Club for dinner, etc...

PM Out

Lipripper
01-06-2003, 11:15 AM
Edies Log Bar. The beating heart of that booming little metropolous. It's right downtown there by the McAmocodonalds.

pmflyfisher
01-07-2003, 09:21 AM
Ok, I know where it is. Been in there in the 80s. No time for that stuff now, I am too tired at the end of the long cold steelheading day. Thats what age does to you. :(

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-07-2003, 11:41 AM
Man I hope I never get that old!!!:D

willmullis
01-07-2003, 04:25 PM
I have never read the book personally, but it is the best selling steelhead book on our site which is interesting since alot of you guys don't like the book.

pmflyfisher
01-10-2003, 10:19 AM
I can see why it is a good selling steelhead fly fishing book. Best one I have seen in the 23 years I have been collecting GLs books it has steelhead fly fishing history, opportunities, techniques, fisheries by GL region, etc..

There are lots of people that like the book.

I will see the author tomorrow here in Chicago.

PM Out

removed_by_request
01-10-2003, 12:20 PM
Hal,

Likes it so much he is going to buy another one.

Can I have your old copy when it gets dogearred???:hehe: