: Just to make things clear
I do not do work for or have ANY affiliation with washingtonflyfishing.com.
My other site is:
Just had to get that off my chest as it seems some members on the board are a little confused.
11-01-2002, 03:51 PM
Thanks, Sean, for the clarification. As a former member of that board who left in total disgust some time ago, I appreciate knowing you are not personally tied to it.
Now if that board would grow up or just go away...
11-02-2002, 11:02 PM
Be glad you don't have anything to do with washingtonflyfishing.com
It's fascinating to be witness to a board literally imploding upon itself.
11-03-2002, 07:54 PM
Why is it that you can't bad mouth each other but yet you all bad mouth another site.And to think that I sent an other fly fisher to this site. I should of read this thread first and then thought better of it.
11-03-2002, 08:22 PM
I do not think the outlash is against the site itself...infact I enjoy reading some of the posts...especially yours.
But many people, myself are included, are appauled at the strong lack of respect for fish and the resource that many of the members exhibit.
Fishing over obvious redds, targeting smolts etc., are all acts that damage the resource yet many of the members over there brag about particapting in these damaging and disgraceful acts! :(
My apologies if you took offense to the above comments by myself or others on Flytalk as many of us are very very angry! :mad:
11-03-2002, 09:32 PM
hello, Jim S-
I can appreciate why you might be somewhat disillusioned with some of the reactions expressed on this site regarding the "other" fly fishing site it appears you frequent. Never having visited the site under discussion prior to these posts, all the fuss of course caught my attention and I decided to have a look.
Although I didn't particularly find anything to be as "appauled" over as some, I can see the compulsion to put forth the comments they did.
Case in point--the chest-pounding over a fly-caught fully ripe chinook salmon was a novelty for me, especially seeing the attached photograph of the poor creature spewing eggs over the obviously proud fly fisherman's waders.
And the thread on "Ugliest fish" with attendant photographs of fish in various stages of decomposition served only to underscore the questionable subject matter for a Forum of this type.
However, it was clear to me that these posters were obviously beginners and were fueled more on testosterone and misplaced exuberance then malicious intent and contempt for the resource as some would have it.
I also took note that some of the more mature members of the Forum immediately chastened the posters of those photographs so as to set them straight and remind them of the responsibility they had as stewards of the resource. At the very worst, something constructive was learned and an example was set for these new guys.
It is somewhat amusing to me that the most vitriolic reactions to your website and its content are usually made by fly fishermen whom I suspect were beginners themselves only a very short time ago but who now package themselves as seasoned aficionados of the sport.
That appears to be human nature doesnít it: an ignoramus is a person who doesn't know today what you only just learned yesterday. It is sometimes rather appauling.
11-03-2002, 10:28 PM
I, like all of us, understand that there is a learning curve that goes along with one jumping into the sport of flyfishing.
And I, like others, understand that beginers will make ethical makes in many differnt ways i.e. fellow fisherman, the fish, the resource etc. etc. etc.
It is our responsibility to point them in the right direction and let them know why that direction is the proper one.
BUT...many of the members on that board instead of taking the veterns advice or questioning why their advice was the proper route to follow, they fought back!
They made comments such as "We want more knowledge, not controversy!" Knowledge as in where to go and controversy as in other members frowning upon their awful acts.
And other members just reacted in a way to say "Do not tell us what to do!"
If they would have been open to the other's opinions and curious as to why the ethics that were being forced upon them were the right way, then I would not have a problem.
But any right mind, whether they are a beginer or not, knows how protect the enviroment and the resource. It doesnt take a rocket scienitist to figure out that walking over redds and fishing over fish on redds isn't healthy for the resource.
Maybe, I am being a little harsh....many of these folks are my generation and maybe I am just embarrased because of the image they are presenting of my generation. We all aren't like that...
11-03-2002, 10:31 PM
I sure hope my last post did not come off as arrogant and pompous... :confused: :(
11-04-2002, 12:41 AM
Neither arrogant or pompous; you hit it on point. Perhaps if marketic looked a little deeper he too could see the points you bring up. Just because recent posts have been less volatile doesn't change this leopard's spots. This issue goes back several months.
Read my message and I guess it seemed to come out of nowhere. Let me explain.
It was not my intent to bad mouth the site at all. I received a couple of anonymous emails questioning my relationship with the site. To put it mildly they were not very nice emails to say the least. Since the bogus email addresses they were sent from made it impossible to deal with them directly I decided to publicly post to clear the air.
I really do not know a whole lot about the site and did not want my post to cause a bashing war. Sounds like the site is going through some growing pains and hopefully they will make it through it.
11-04-2002, 12:22 PM
I understand your reasoning but do you believe every thing that you read. What was said about fishing for smolts was meant as a joke. And as for fishing over spawning fish that person was told the right way and stopped.
I'm trying hard to try to understand how we communicated before the age of computers.
I'm not defending anybody,but what was said Was that I/we were targeting smolts. It seems that nobody can make a joke any more with out some one getting up tight with out knowing all the FACTS
You read a lot of stuff on these sites.Some of it is good and some of it is no good. But you keep reading it If you want to form an opinion from that well and good but why can't you keep it to yourself. Right now I fighting with my self to keep from mouthing off on some stuff but the better part of me is winning.
It seems that everyone want everybody to think like they do. Well it won't work. This is America the land of the free. And we all think and act differently. Some times I think that I'm glad I'm not that person,look what he has to go thru to go fishing. We're not alike so we say things different that others do.
Well I'll get of my soap box now and just stick to things at hand. If you want to bad mouth me go ahead my skin is thick and I don't rile easy. But I do get even.:(
11-04-2002, 12:51 PM
from this thread.
"No good deed will go unpunished."
11-04-2002, 02:02 PM
While I have found some of the recent posts on washingtonflyfishing.com repugnant, I think it unfair to trash the entire site.
Last week I posted in response to some posts and attitudes, which I personally felt, violated the spirit of flyfishing. I received a fair amount of flack over my opinions. However, I also received a number of supportive posts agreeing that what is legal isnít always right and supporting my assertion that fishing with a flyrod is not the same as being a flyfisher.
Chris, the Webmaster over there, yesterday posted that he will no longer tolerate or allow any posts that cross the line into poor sportsmanship or resource abuse. I have no idea if my posts had any bearing on his decision but I am happy that all does not appear to be lost.
11-04-2002, 03:35 PM
I personally believe your post, written with great clarity, was a godsend. The timing couldn't have been better either.
This board in question was my first and favorite for a long time with some minor problems which weren't all that glaring. ...until the VFS bulletin board nearly self-destructed and the, pardon the term, riff-raff, sought a new home. Many went to Westfly and many to WFF.com, where the level of bickering went up overnight. I quickly bailed-out but never gave up hope that the membership would get it back together. Well it kept getting worse until there reached a point that even the enforcement division of WDFW was checking things out, or so said their email to me. Meanwhile, I was "talking" to Chris via email, pointing out that other flyfishers were scrutinizing the "antics and behaviorisms" being shown. Then your post - the final nail, so to speak.
Late last night, Chris sent me an email, for the most part, recognizing the above and expressing his determination to be fair while correcting the web site's problems. I believe he will succeed, especially now that he understands there are others out there to lend support. I am quite pleased that this seems to be turning around.
P.S. ...which is not to say that there weren't other persons and forces at play.
11-04-2002, 09:34 PM
Nothing I could add to that ... other than well spoken.
11-05-2002, 01:12 AM
Just to make things clear...I have nothing against the site like others on Flytalk.
I have met Chris Scoones many times and he is a pleasure to talk to and cares deeply about the resource.
The boat has been rocked...and its been righted. Hopefully no hard feelings will persist over this disagreement!
11-05-2002, 01:18 AM
Sink Tip and Watersprite,
I hope you guys are fight about them turning the site around. I will wait and see if it happens though before I pronounce them redeemed.
I have been fly fishing since age 6, exclusively since age 9 and tying flies since age 9. I am now 49 years old, this hardly makes me a newcomer to the sport. And it hardly makes me a pperson who is trying to act like he has been at it for more than a little while. I am not the only one who has had problems with the other site who is not a relative newcomer to fly fishing.
11-05-2002, 01:50 PM
It appears to me that there has been a good healthy debate started over there on "the other site". Sinktip sent in a very thoughtful and well written piece and that seemed to have gotten things flowing in the the right direction.
I for one am quite impressed that many of Chris's Forum Members rose to the occasion in the constructive manner they did. The one's that voiced negative opinions seemed to be in the minority although at least one pointed out (and rightly so) that the unspoken guidelines that some of us would like to see governing streamside (and Forumside) behavior are easier ruminated upon then itemized in some kind of Behavioral Manifesto that everyone would automatically agree too.
Case in point: C&R: I don't quite understand how C&R got tied up to flyfishing in some kind of exclusive manner (one could make that inference reading some of the posts on not only that Site but others as well). I know bait guys that have released more fish then most of us will ever catch in a lifetime, and this was way back when you could kill lots. And me? If it's got a fin clip and I catch it on a fly and the regs say I can bonk it and my punch card has room, I bring a rock down without a second thought. I love eating fish and so do my daughters. If I get it on a fly, it seems to taste better. Are you going to keel-haul me for that?
I suspect, however, that if any more dark salmon are caught in the future (which anyone who has spent time on a river in the fall with a flyrod and a sinking line knows all about) I doubt we'll see the pages of that Forum graced with links to similar pictures of gloating misinformed fly fishermen nor shall we be entertained with boasts about how long the fight was (at least for the rest of the year anyway) . Same with the smolt catches.
It's all a learning experience. It just seems we have to re-learn it every year though, which is somewhat sad. But maybe that's why God made fishermen grow old-- so they can impart all that hard-earned knowledge to the Young Turks when they get too rowdy on the river bank.
11-05-2002, 05:15 PM
From nasty pig to something better...?
I received a lengthy email from Chris Scoones, this morning, on the "new" direction he is preparing to go with his board. I believe he will turn this around.
Noting the different personality types (subjective) he is going to work on removing those members who cannot move beyond schoolyard antics and behaviorisms. For those remaining, he will solicit their input on issues such as ethics and resource stewardship through debate/discussion. He has expressed a desire to further solicitate views, etc., from the area's major fishery conservation groups (WSC, WA Trout, FFF, etc.). [Maybe working towards some kind of Manifesto? :razz: ].
As I stated before, this was a nice regional site. It seems to be on tract towards once again being the little gem some of us have previously seen.
11-06-2002, 02:39 AM
It is still a good site. I might have been caught up in all of the hoopala that was going on for a while but as I have noticed that it has been cooling down. I'm not as bad a person as some people make me out to be. I help out when it is needed and I expect help when ever I ask for it. Which of lately I haven't got to much of(help).
I try to get alone with everyone but some times you have to bite the bullet. I hope you get my drift.
Well this is all for now