: Four wheel drive vs. "all wheel drive." The Joan is bugging
10-04-2002, 09:57 PM
the crap out of me again to 'move on' from my old trusty 91 Ford Explorer. In context, the car has done every thing I've asked but when your married to a Redhead ..... sigh.....
So to the question: (and this time she's even tossed in trading in her Lexus. Maybe a bit too serious here for my own good. Now you know too much about how an 'old good marrage works in southern Oregon:devil: )
Your collective thoughts on 4x4 vs. 'all wheel drive' in a mid sized SUV. 99% of the time the 4 x 4 is to get me on/off gravel bars rather than towing so "she" may have a point (double sigh ...).
Question covers a few points:
Which do you prefer and why?
In an 'all wheel drive' is there an 'experience preference?
How do I get out of this alive? Keeping her "at bay" with the new home coming .... "No girl, not until we know EXACTLY how much this will end up costing." That puppy will hunt for about another 45 days.
10-04-2002, 11:14 PM
I suggest the best possible answer is ............"yes dear."
10-04-2002, 11:24 PM
Her response: "Right answer, good man."
Now go away!:eyecrazy:
10-04-2002, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by fredaevans
How do I get out of this alive?
Fred follow Bobs advice. :rolleyes: I know that I've screwed up almost every car purchase since I met my wife.
My only experiences with 4 wd are in a Subaru a couple of years older than your Explorer. What I found was that in snow the 4 wd only helped to get moving, not in steering or stopping. Never tried it on the beach, In retrospect I should have.
10-05-2002, 12:37 AM
All wheel drive is good for on road performance(wet roads, maybe snow, but snow tires are better still) and 4wd is better off road(gravel bars).
A locking center diffferential is key off road(even with "traction control"). AWD cars with the LCD that come to mind are the Jeep Cherokee, Toyota Land Cruiser, and the HUM V. The older Rovers have it too(maybe again in '04).
Car buying sucks(which is why I haven't bought a car in 11 years), but the Pathfinder is going to blow up if I tow the boat more than a hundred miles or so. sigh....nothing really fits the bill.
10-05-2002, 01:34 AM
I have owned 4X4 trucks that have been part-time 4 wheel drive and one that was full-time four wheel drive. They performed equally well to go get firewood in the mountains of Montana and to get to our-of-the-way spots in the hills where a road was nothing more than a track in the woods. The full-time 4x4 was a '78 Dodge pickup and it had a locking center differential (as Eddie mentioned) which is essential to going in the ruff.
I sold the Dodge 4 1/2 years ago and bought a Jeep Cherokee becaue the wife thought we needed a SUV instead of a truck. The Cherokee we bought has part-time 4-wheel drive. What is really needed is a locking center differential or transfer case that sends ewual power to both front and rear axles along with a low range 4-wheel drive for stump pulling, off-roading, or gravel bar driving, and secent fround clearance to avoid high centering or beating up things like oil pans. .
There are many SUV's out there that meet these criteria.
Interestingly, my wife has been saying for the last 3 months that we ought to consider selling the Cherokee and get another 4X4 pickup because pickups can carry more stuff. Go figure.
10-05-2002, 05:40 AM
a new Range Rover.
Look at http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/default.htm
and I quote Wherever you want to go, Land Rover can take you there. Welcome to our world of adventure.
Most of the ghillies on the Spey drive Land Rover Defenders. I have had three Range Rovers for Salmon Fishing you cannot get better.
10-05-2002, 06:52 AM
as my step son AND his son both have newer models (Dad the big one, son the small one) down in Calif. Doubt they've ever been anywhere close to 'off road.' But they're coming up in a couple of weeks and I'll ask them to bring the 'smaller' of the two and give it a try.
Only real concern I'd have with this vech. would be necessary repairs. Doubt there's a dealer within 400 miles of Medford.
ps: did you get the hats?
10-05-2002, 07:21 AM
Yes got the hats, thanks, did you not get the Email
nearest dealer N 45 31' 15" W 122 39' 59" all you need now is a sextant.
10-05-2002, 11:34 AM
We bought a new 2002 Trailbalzer in April have put 10,000 on it including city, long distance and off road driving. No problems, no rattles even with the South Dakota Bad Lands back roads and Michigan National Forest wash board roads.
Gas mileage is close to or above 20 on the road. We are very satisfied with it and would buy another.
Many models to choose from. The new Vortec engine is a performer.
Like they saw "Like a Rock".
Would think even in Medford you would have a Chevrolet dealer.
The other one I would look at is the GMC Envoy.
Good Luck on your search !
10-05-2002, 03:49 PM
I second those opinions on the Range Rovers - serious 4x4 capabilities when equipped correctly.
I guess the first question would be, What do you want in this vehicle? How much of the time would you be off-road?
For overall "roadability" on pavement, the all wheel drive vehicles are really nice, particularly on wet or snowy roads.
For off-road driving, a more capable vehicle would be a 4x4 SUV or truck, preferably with a limited slip differential (locking axle). Just watch your leadfoot and don't punch it on ice or snow.
I've personally run the gamit from 2x4 to 4x4 trucks and SUV's. I built a serious 3/4ton 4x4, installing locking axles, lift kit and serious off-road tires. Strangely, my most capable vehicle was my old '86 GMC Jimmy SUV (GMC's little Blazer). Because of it's 4x4 capabilities and shorter wheel base I could go places even the built-up 4x4 couldn't go. My overall favorite "woods" vehicle.
Which brings me back to the Range Rover - a really buff SUV though far from being pretty. Wish I could afford one...
10-05-2002, 07:36 PM
At one time (haven't had the use for it for many years) but I was darn good. My sextent is Royal Navy issue (that always had the other US Coasties scratching their heads) and IS still dead on. Still have my Bowdich (sp? ... long time since I've used the book) tables in the library. Gets hit with the "Brasso" three or four times per year.
Even with Loran, etc., I was always a firm (marine applications) 'beliver' that if it runs on electricity it will go out just when you need it the most. I'd have a crewman do the "electronic shoots" and I'd use the horizon, and the sun, a planet or a star. Also had a darn good wrist watch for a cronometer.
Amazing how many of the crew wanted to learn to use the equipment. Most common mistake was their 'answer' was 180 degrees around the other side of the world.
Sorry I missed the hat e mail; glad you got them and hope you and Stef. are 'shapoing' good health.
As to the car thing .... I shan't allow Joan to read these ... assumeing she's not peeking anyway. You guys are supposed to be helping out not getting me into debt.:razz:
As to applications of 4 x 4 95% is on gravel bars, the other 5% would be snow.
10-05-2002, 08:47 PM
I'd say it really depends on what you really want. First off, there is a BIG difference between limited slip and a locked differential. A limited slip is an axle that the tire on solid ground is "supposed" to grab and pull most of power, while a locked/locking differential has equal power to both wheels. The best vehicle 4x4 I ever had was an 80' Chevy Blazer K5 4x4 with front and rear locked differentials. It was a true four wheel drive (most 4x4's out there are actually a 2 wheel drive, they have front and rear slip differentials). I locked the front end in and I could get out of just about anywhere I wanted. Then unlocking front end sent my gas mileage up. An all wheel drive has all 4 wheels running at all times, usually with limited slip front/rear on axles. But with technology nowadays, there's virtually not much difference gas mileagewise between your all wheel vs 4x4. Just your undercarriage. Most 4x4's have a reinforced (and I say MOST) cage built in to protect your drivetrain. The cage on my current Blazer has been pummeled a few times on hunting trips that would've detroyed the tranny. But a thick steel skidplate bolted directly to the chassis helped me out and only caused an extra bumpy situation. Plus the extra shocks (mine has two sets stock front and rear made by GM specifically for the offroad package) keeps things in check.
I'd say in the long run, go with what Joan wants. Unless you hunt and fish in some of the places I do, you won't need anything overbearing. I'm looking for a 3/4 Suburban 4x4 so I have some extra clearance and the heavier duty axle needed for some of my hunting/fishing excursions. Most guys don't need that much vehicle.
10-05-2002, 10:06 PM
10-08-2002, 03:35 PM
Check this one out, they are starting to show in Chicago now.
You could handle any back road with this I am sure. They are a tad expensive though up in the 50-60 range I think.
Sat no to the install box which will pop up to you unless you want to see their video clip.
10-08-2002, 07:48 PM
the spare tire on the H2 weighs 150#! "Need any help changing that tire mam?"
The new Toyota 4Runner looks like the best of both worlds.
10-08-2002, 09:54 PM
Hummer rolls on to the beach/drift .... 10 guys there.
About 50-75 rounds of M-62 over their heads should clear the place.
Just a thought ....... :devil:
10-09-2002, 10:01 AM
BTW, there are no rivers that I have seen in the great lakes where you can drive a vehicle onto and go fishing. No beaches on the lake either like they have on the east coast atlantic ocean where you can drive a four wheel drive vehicle and get out and fish.
10-11-2002, 05:46 PM
Went by a cadillac dealer today that is selling the Hummers. Fred, I think you could mount your 18 foot spey rod on the top with out having to break it apart. Was almost tempted to take one for a test drive just to see what they were like. Come in a nice hunter green color, that would be a good camoflouge color as slowly motor onto the rogue gravel bars. :cool:
10-17-2002, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by Steelheader69
Most guys don't need that much vehicle.
dunno, sounds like we fish the same kinds of access.
the 4runner's one I'd vote for. if there's water involved, the extra bit of height would be safe. y' don't want fish to end up using your downsized awd for a current break.
10-17-2002, 03:20 PM
Actually a very nice auto, good handling, all time 4 wheel drive, tight solid road feel and suspention, etc. Rather impressive auto to drive around .... now all I've got to do is find some fool who will sell me/her one fully loaded for $25,000 cash.
Like Ya ....
10-17-2002, 07:34 PM
Yes they looked nice how about the Sequoia. I almost gagged when I saw the list price on the Land Crusiers - $ 55K+
Highlander has got to be in the 30k -40k range.
Good luck, car dealers are hurting out here, they will do anything to sell a car and get it out of their inventory.
10-17-2002, 11:56 PM
former neighbor is the son of the guy who ownes half the auto dealerships in Southern Oregon and the neighbor across the street is the (well, we'll leave his position out of this) is one click below this in the corp. food chain.
Suspect, if I can't pour enough cold water on Joan ... suck it up BOY!, to get her off this gig that we'll pay a reasonable price.
Juro, we need a "smilies" for a crying face.
10-18-2002, 10:15 AM
10-18-2002, 12:11 PM
over to the 'click to post.'
Too cute, and too appropriate.
10-19-2002, 11:52 PM
Limited only to the extent of how big a check you're willing to write.
If this thing doesn't have a bell or whistle in/on it I'm at a loss as to what it could be. Leather, "snake oil" package and all. (Well some of them are actually worth the price up front)
Nothing better than a "Happy Redhead." Amazing what a man will do/pay for ....
Double Devil department: Tossed in my 2 year old VW TDI dsl. into the mix for a 'trade in.' :smokin:
Joanie has been bugging me for years to get rid of my old trusty Ford 4x4 Explorer. Deal "was" that this new bomb would be my 'new' fishing car. Like ya, I'm going to be climing in/out of leather seats in wet waders, soggie Doggie, and all.
Sooooooooo, says I to 'self:' "How does one extract a beautiful Redhead from a really dumb idea?" So, 'self says: ' get rid of your 'newish' car, bite the trade in bullit, convince her that you'd be happy to drive her 'old' Lexus instead ..... and 'do you REALLY want a soggie dog, waders, fly rods, etc., and etc., clogging up your new toy?' What the hell, if my eyes were 'blue' all it would indicate would be I 'was a quart low' in BS.
Figure this is one I can/just might make stick. (Keep in mind guys that the JoanMeister was a Sr. VP in a very! large company. I was just a VP)
The 'saga' continues.
10-20-2002, 10:14 AM
Congratulations and good luck with the new car. Now my real estate broker wife is talking about the BMW she has always wanted. I'm happy with the Trail Blazer. We have four cars at the present time due to our two sons that are driving.
11-02-2002, 07:30 PM
Have fished a lake with a group of people with boats and all kinds of vehicles towing them. The ramp is gradual soft sand. The only vehicle that cannot make the pull is a Jeep Grand Cherokee with AWD. By the time it knows to engage the drive the rear wheel slippage have dropped the vehicle to its rear bumper. This happens all the time, not an isolated incident.
11-07-2002, 01:45 PM
2 months ago I bought a Jeep Wrangler. It is not as comfortable nor does it have all the bells and whistle the Denali I drove previously or the Mercedes ML my wife had. But it is a blast to drive and will go anywhere. I got a 2001 Wrangler sport w/ dual tops for $17.5K with only 24K miles. I have driven it 8 hours on the road, it is not as comfortable as the others but it was not bad. I have had 4 4wd vehicles and it is by far the best.