: Spey cast the Salt
08-16-2002, 08:24 AM
A couple of us over on Kenney A's board are trying to get some interest up for a double-handed/spey casting session in the salt - probably @ Quonny and maybe the same week-end as the hard-tail clave (either 9/21 or 9/28).
I've spent far too much time talking about Spey Casting saltwater estuaries and surf and not enough doing it. I think this would add some interest for our get together if anyone fancies a break from chasing tunoids - Quonny isn't too far from Watch Hill, there's plenty of parking and the current means we can do the real Spey thing.
If we can get enough interetst Kenney will invite a top swedish caster (Keld Olsen) along.
Post here if interested!
08-16-2002, 08:50 AM
Adrian, what is the URL for Kenney A's board..just for mu info?
Make sure to drop Juro an email as a reminder on this.
That blank that he & Smitty cut up is a CANNON!
I threw one roll cast to pick up the line, a back cast & BANG there fgoes the whole 425 grain line.
Those are a lot of fun - we should see if our sponsor T&T would send over a few of their salty demo's.
08-16-2002, 09:44 AM
Cool, will do. Not sure when Juro gets back from Bermuda. I already emailed Jay Horton - hoping he can get along.
Talking of Smitty, does he have a website or has anyone got a phone## ?
I am looking for a particular blank for a winter project and have only come up with one option from Italy :eyecrazy: . I'm looking for 11'6" 9 weight. This is a very popular spec in the U.K. but can't find out where they get there blanks from (Bruce & Walker, Hardy's etc.).
08-16-2002, 09:56 AM
I have wanted to try Spey Casting for years. I just have to finish the rod. 14ft 8-9wt Diamond Back. Almost 8 months now and I still have yet to put the finish on it. Now that I think about it I haven't tied a fly in a while either and my supplies are running dangerously low.
Rod Builder's Workshop Kingston, MA 781-582-1015
Board sponsor - see expertise (?)
08-16-2002, 10:27 AM
Adrian - You have probably done your research, but I also had a brief look round and couldn't find any 11'6" 9wts from UK manufacturers. It's rather an 'in-between' size - a bit heavy for singlehanded, a bit short for double handed - which would explain the lack of blanks of this size.
You might try Harrisons. These aren't generally well known, but have a very good reputation among those who know about such things. They do a 12' 8-9 blank, if that's any good to you - maybe you could chop a bit off the tip! I have a feeling they used to make blanks for B&W, incidentally.
They're a small firm, so you should find it easy to talk to someone who knows what they're about.
08-21-2002, 11:30 AM
I think a Spey 'Clave would be great, especially if we could get a sponsor like T&T to cough up a few loaners. Do we have a contact name at T&T that anyone is aware of?
http://rodbuildersworkshop.com or just click on the banner.
08-21-2002, 03:31 PM
Open to people who want to learn? If so, I would be very interested.
A few things to offer...
First of all, there is a huge difference between overhand casting with two hands and Spey casting. Which are we talking about here?
The flies and lines used for stripers are typically best applied to overhand casting. I doubt people are going to invest in the most expensive lines out there (Spey lines) for a maiden event (although I hope it does become annual). If we didn't use Spey lines and flies suited for Spey casting, we wouldn't be Spey casting, and perhaps we should rename the event?
It takes a certain convergence of factors to make a river-fishing style designed for salmon or steelhead (i.e: Spey) apply to a surf fishing for stripers. This convergence represents a tiny fraction of the opportunities that a day presents while sloshing around looking for mr.linesides. Such a gathering would be very "focused" in that way and we should be aware of that.
Now if we're talking two-handed overhand that's a whole nuther animal. It's best applied to big surf, or that's what I've concluded after spending quite some time trying it. I don't feel comfortable using a 2-hander on Monomoy or from a boat for instance. But out on East Beach, Weekapaug, Napatree, west beach on Quonny - it would be a great weapon IMHO.
Curious to hear more about this....
As we went through this discussion before I made my July trip out your way I have since given a great deal of thought to double-handers in the salt. I agree with your assessment that doublehanders are not a suitable tool for either sight fishing from a boat or your feet, they aren't quick or accurate enough, in fact I intend to actually acquire a 9 wt single hander for my next trip to the Cape.
The double-handers do have an application in your fishing. Fishing from a boat in the rips, like I did with the Estey's that day would be great with a shorter 2-hander (under 14'), though the Lodge Manager where I guide salmon in the Queen Charlottes regularly uses his 10160 (16') from a boat. The extremely long casts are an advantage as they allow extended retrieves. For the same reason the 2-hander in the surf is a no-brainer, the 130'+ casts as well as the ability to mend the line over breakers make even longer rods a choice weapon.
Juro, you are right in saying that overhead rather than spey casting is what you should be doing. Your fishing on the East Coast is a stripping game, with retrieves right to the rod tip and normally with extreme sinking lines or tips. Neither of these situations takes advantage of what spey casting has to offer. Steelhead and salmon fishing in rivers is a cast, swing, step down a pace or two, then cast, swing and repeat, picking up a considerable length of line and putting it back out there with basically one motion is the forte of speycasting.
What I found effective for the surf was overhead, or modified Underhand casting (for those not overly familiar with spey terms - Underhand Casting simply refers to a cast in which the bottom - or underhand - exerts the force instead of the top hand). This combined with a Scandinavian style 45' shooting head, like the Loop Adapted Line I used can boom out some mind-boggling casts, especially in concert with the use of the stripping basket. About all the "spey casting" I did on my trip was to roll the head back outside the tip after the retrieve, make one backcast and launch it for Europe - it was kind of fun as well!
I know that when I come back to the Cape, in addition to a new single hander I will also have 2 or 3 of my 2-handers ranging from 13' to 16'!
08-21-2002, 08:19 PM
When using a short Spey rod is a Spey line required for overhead or underhand (non Spey) casts or will a standard sink tip suffice?
It was great having you, Sandi and Doublespey come out to striper country! I await your return.
We were lucky to have the Shah and the Grand Poobah Striblue on hand before they headed out on their private Lear :devil:
A standard length line will work for overhead (and some spey casts). The problem is that the shorter belly sections won't have enough grains to properly load the rod. A #9 WF line will not have enough grains to load a #9 double-handed rod, the Scandinavians have dealt with this by making their heads longer - approx 45'. trying to match a regular line to a speyrod is a guessing game, it can be done, I know because 10 years ago most of us out here were trying to do just that and ended up cutting and splicing lines. It was an adventure and some pretty good designs resulted (some very poor ones as well). It was't until commercial line technology caught up with the spey craze that this got (somewhat) easier, if you hang in spey circles you will soon find out that this issue of matching lines to rods is still a hot topic. My recommendation would be to try to to get ahold of a spey line - it will save a lot of hassle and if you are planning on fishing for stripers etc, I would definitely recommend the shooting head systems.
08-22-2002, 09:32 AM
I don't know where and when you guys are doing this, nor if I can attend, but if not, you guys are welcome to use all of my two handers which includes:
Two-T & T DH1212-3's
One-T & T DH 1208-3
One Redington RedFly 12'6" 7/8
Along with associated reels, running lines & shooting heads.
If you want to try out some of the longer rods, I would contact Trevor Bross at T & T. I know he has a DH 1410-3 demo rod that I just returned, ( What was I thinking there?) I think they will ship it out for trial via a dealer, ( Like Smitty.)
If you want to use my rods, please e-mail me: firstname.lastname@example.org
Orvis outlet shop in North Conway has 14' 9 weights for @ $250.
08-22-2002, 09:59 AM
Glad to see you didn't spend all your time sittin' on Humpty Dumpty's lap! 'You going to do a trip report?
There's an Orvis Outlet next to EMS on the FarSide (of the Canal) but all they carry is clothing/household goods...I guess there must be some sort of "agreement" with FlyFish the Cape?!
08-22-2002, 09:35 PM
I'm certainly interested in giving the two handers a try. I sure could use that extra distance to extend my reach. I'm interested in building one maybe next year. It would be great to test cast and learn about them before trying to pick out a blank.
Looking forward to it, hope I can make it.
08-23-2002, 12:48 AM
Holy Smokes Batman - this thread kinda woke up big time whilst I wasn't looking :eyecrazy:
I'm thinking of a few possible applications for the long rod which we could do:
1) Standard overhead / underhand canon for getting it over the horizon where the retrieve is a big part of the presentation
2) Long rod for short range floating line work in the surf (a la Kanney A and Todd's workshop back in May) - you fish about 60 - 80 ft and keep the flies swimming in the strike zone just outside the beach breaks using mends etc. You can do it with a 9ft rod but its much easier with the longer rod - especially when the surf is up.
3) Imagine you are fishing the CC canal during the Herring run :devil: or presenting shrimp / baitfish patterns to sipping bass in a tidal Estuary.
For demo and short range practical purposes I have some DT lines that worked pretty well on the R. Tweed before Michael Evens came out with his Spey profiles.
Quonny was suggested as a location since there is good current in the channel and lots of parking space.
It would be really nice if we could have an estuary with a good surf beach nearby to try out the different methods in different locations. Anyone have ideas on alternatives.?
This is really meant to be a "think out of the box" session to try some ideas out. One thought was maybe to run it the same time as the Rhoddy to give folks a break from hounding the Tunoids (yea sure :D), but on the odd chance they dont show - well - up to you folks.
So, were thinking either 9/21 or 9/28 depending on what people want to do.
Does it makes sense to try and combine the events or should we plan something separate?
Jay, it would be great to see you and thanks for the offer. We'll give the T&T folks a heads up but I guess we need to firm up soon since its almost September already!