How much is too much [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: How much is too much


Roop
07-19-2002, 07:58 AM
pressure when fighting a fish?

Last night, trying to duplicate the fly that worked for me last weekend, I noticed the gap had opened up.

It was a Daichii #2 stainless, great hooks.

So while a 25# tippet may be very sporting of me ;) , I wonder what might have happend if I was using the old 10# or 12# of last year?

Maybe I should let them run a little more?

Any similar experiences?

Thanks, good luck this weekend.

Roop

BigDave
07-19-2002, 08:13 AM
Roop,

I have never bent out a hook before except when salmon fishing and that was a size 12 glo-bug tied on a freshwater hook. That said, a 20# king salmon pulls a lot harder than any striper I've encountered...

Maybe that 25# tippet is a bit heavy? I fish 8# to 16# flouro and have only broken off bass when my knots are bad or I set the hook to hard. When I'm using the 8# I keep my hands off of the reel (except to retrieve) and let my drag do the work. That way, I'm never really horsing the fish and don't have to worry about bent hooks/tearing the hook free/etc.

You might have just had a defective hook or bent it in the vise too...

Just my .02

Dave

JimW
07-19-2002, 08:22 AM
I've found that when fighting schoolies hard they come in too green. I mess around with them more during the landing process, which could cause more harm(?). Fishing on South beach last fall I got into fish on every other cast action with 30-34" fish in the surf. I was cranking the drag down because the seals were hanging just outside the 3rd wave. The 12lb kept failing when I pressured the fish. A switch to 16lb did the trick.
Does the floro go bad after a period of time?

juro
07-19-2002, 08:26 AM
Strangely, the fly I gave Pete Gray last weekend opened up a bit after his large fish battle (that story's amazing, will post w/ pictures). He joked "cheap hooks", they were $14 for 50. I had just gone done telling him how his megawire hooks were unnecessary, touting the virtues of thin wire hooks. From his perspective, I'm sure that experience enforced his belief in thick gauge wire hooks.

From my perspective: I have never opened up a thin wire hook, never broken one while fishing. As a matter of fact I've never had a client have the hook open up or break either. There must be a difference in the way we fight the fish, or maybe he just hit the shore with an earlier backcast :devil:

All kidding aside, I think each person's style and terminal gear choices define which hooks should be used. I am obviously very comfortable with Xstrong thin wires like the 811s TMC. I have never had that problem despite finding a fair number of fish when I get on the water.

I like the way they cast, swim, penetrate and hold. On rare occasions when they need sharpening (never out of the box) a few wisks of the diamond hone and they are sticky again.

I do use a different hook for north shore rockpiles (800s).

Probably the best approach is to know what is best for each person and do it; if it's not working try something else.

Adrian
07-19-2002, 08:32 AM
Jim

The manufacturers tell us that fluro doesn't degrade over time. I cant bring myself to use stuff which is a season old whatever they say. I've not had a hook straighten out since starting to use Gamis, Tiemcos etc. The old Mustads were prone to it when you really laid on some pressure.

BigDave
07-19-2002, 08:32 AM
Jim,

Nice meeting you last weekend.

Floro does go bad after a period of time - especially if you leave it on your dashboard all summer :rolleyes: Sunlight will break down just about anything over time.

Must have been challenging working those nice fish between the seals and the surf! I haven't fished the surf much but would imagine you could get away with a heavier tippet since the breakwater is clouded with sand and bubbles anyway. I know this premise applies to trout fishing...

I'll be out again this weekend. See you around.

Dave

Roop
07-19-2002, 09:05 AM
If you guys aren't bending hooks, then you're taking too long to land your fish! ;)

I've run through the phases of:
1. a 12' multiple piece, beautifully tapered leader, to
2. 4' of mono, to
3. 2 piece (25# butt, 10-12# tippet) to
4. my current favorite of straight 25# as a result of grabbing whatever first came to had out of my pack.

I agree with Juro thatit's all dependent upon how you fish.. I am a little passionate about landing a fish ASAP.

Just some food for thought:
1. I landed an anchor with full chain and line on a 16# tippet
2. I've had my fly break off before the leader failed when hung up
on the bottom with 12# tippet
3. I've not had one refusal from a fish using a short section of 25# mono and a QD line

Maybe I'll go back to the MORE sporting tippets this weekend if I can find some time to tie one up before the Saturday AM low.

Good luck this weekend - hope you all rip some lips!!

Roop

juro
07-19-2002, 10:20 AM
3. I've not had one refusal from a fish using a short section of 25# mono and a QD line

That you know of! :devil:

I agree with you when fishing the rips, I use 20# "tippet"

FredA
07-19-2002, 11:06 AM
I've been applying extreme pressure this season which has resulted in a few break-offs and my first opened hook. Normally use 1/0's and 2/0's, but I tied a deep eel on a #1 34007 a few weeks ago because smaller seemed to be working where I've been fishing. First decent fish opened the hook. Caught a few nice fish on a beadhead sandeel on a #1 that was given to me be someone slaying 'em, without any problem. Don't know what the hook is. I picked up some #1 TMC 811's and will tie a couple of deep eels tonight for this weekend.

I've inched up to 20# floro but will back off to 16# I think. 20# seems to have been working in gin clear. But the behavoir of the fish seem to be very cautious until one is hooked. Typically the first hooked fish will be chased aroung by a couple of fish trying to grab the fly (I've had the chance to fool aroung with the Penguin barbless "Drop and Switch" upgrade method). After the first fish (in a particular pod or group) is hooked the others turn on and you have a shot of several more quick hookups. I think it may be worth dropping down to 10 or 13lb flouro just to see if I can instigate a quicker first hookup.

Adrian
07-19-2002, 11:18 AM
Yup, the good old Mustads can be a bit suspect. The newer Japanese steels have a much higher tensile strength. In fact when I de-barb a Tiemco or Gami, more often than not the metal breaks rather than bend.

JimW
07-19-2002, 11:38 AM
Dave,
Nice meeting you out on SB. The surf is fun for sure but landing the fish is challenging. I find the need to let a wave toss them on the sand, quickly unhook them, get 'em pointed in the right direction and supported before the next wave comes. When wading or yaking more times that not I don't even take them all the way out of the water.
Fishing the surf out on SB with those seals waiting for a striper meal is where I learned how much pressure could be applied with a fly rod. It was either get them in quick or don't fish for them.

Under normal circumstances I play them a bit longer.

Roop
07-19-2002, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by juro


That you know of! :devil:



To clarify and avoid future sniper attacks ;) , WHEN SIGHT CASTING TO FISH

As I've learned, whacking them on the head with the fly tends to scare them off:D

juro
07-19-2002, 12:33 PM
Just kidding buddy, you know I am just jealous!

Roop
07-19-2002, 02:12 PM
Dude... :smokin: like, no offense ever taken whatsover...

Just, like monkeying around...:D

Psyched for new fly rod, maybe I'll try it jiggin for fluke next week:hehe:

I'll give you a report tomorrow when I leave the water.

tomd
07-20-2002, 01:22 PM
I hear Al D. tossed an anchor overboard withou being on a cleat!!! could this be the one? :D :D :devil: Tom D

juro
07-22-2002, 09:30 AM
No, this anchor came from Monomoy Point, the Rip Trip! An anchor in an estuary would be one thing but Roopster landed this "keepa" in the rip! :eyecrazy: