Fly Fishing Experience [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Fly Fishing Experience

06-25-2002, 09:27 PM
How many total years of fly fishing experience do you have ?

Any type saltwater, fresh water, etc...

06-26-2002, 12:47 PM

I am the only one with 1-5 years right now? Man do I feel like a kid...

probably has something to do with only being 22 though.


06-26-2002, 01:48 PM
OK, I just have to know who has 51-60 years flyfishing experience.

That way, moving forward, I can pay especially close attention.

Thanks in advance.

Dble Haul
06-26-2002, 01:57 PM
This is an interesting question. An even more interesting question would be the amount of flyfishing experience vs. actual age. If two people have twenty years of experience, but one is twenty-five and the other is sixty, I wonder how their fishing backgrounds would match up. Probably quite well, given the potential for sharing different approaches and views that might come with the difference in age.

I voted, but I'm not gonna say how many years of experience I have. I will say that I started when I was 5, and that's starting to make me feel older and date myself. :p

John Desjardins
06-26-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by jborkowski
OK, I just have to know who has 51-60 years flyfishing experience.

That way, moving forward, I can pay especially close attention.

Thanks in advance.

I for one agree that we can learn a lot from those who have a lot experience. My guess is that one person is ArtB. From past messages I knowthat he's forgotten more about fly fishing than I've learned.

06-26-2002, 02:14 PM
I started fishing at around 8 or 9 with a spinning rod and the fly rod was 12 years old. That is all I am going to divulge right now.

06-26-2002, 04:45 PM
Too funny.

Started myself with trout rod at 3 (man, I still give my Dad credit with that one since I've started both my kids at same age with trout rods). Went up to baitcaster and salmon/steelhead at 7. Picked up a fly rod around 10 and hit first fish at around 11/12 with the fly. I'm 32 so that puts me in the 21-25 range fly fishing wise. But, all the years I have in with a flyrod, I don't have a full 21 years fly fishing. Just because you have the years of service, doesn't mean you have used them all to that one means. I do pretty much always bring a fly rod with me on my "conventional trips" and vice versa. If I hit the right conditions, the fly line will be flying.

Yeah, I'd be interested in the 50+ years. If you think about it though, it's not much if you started really young. Hell, my Dad would almost classify at that and he's almost 60. But he only merely dabbled with the fly all these years. I don't think I've ever seen him on an exclusive trip with a flyrod (might be that his main fly buddy growing up was his brother who died years ago). Good post though, would love to see where the stats lay.

06-26-2002, 06:50 PM
I will bet those in the over 40 years categories remember the following:

1. When there was no waders but only hip boots.

2. When automatic fly reels (Garcia, South Bend???) were in.

3. When HDH, HCH etc.. fly line labelling systems

4. When nymph fisherman were equivalent to bait fisherman.

5. When bamboo fly rods were common and top of the line before glass, and graphite came around.

6. When there was no fly fishing only and no kill sections and the fishing was still good.

7. When there were no Orvis dudes but Abercrombie & Fitch was the place to buy the best equipment.

8. When fly fishing for trout and atlantic salmon was the primary pursuit.

9. When you could trout fish all day and never see any boats on the river carrying fisherman.

10. When there were few fly fishing guides except for Atlantic salmon and probably PNW steelhead and salmon.

12. When "The River Runs Through IT" was an unknown book.

13. When fly rodders used bait (worms, salmon eggs, shiners) for trout fishing.

14. When neopreme, thinsulate, and gortex were unknown materials.

15. When it was expected to have leaky boots at the end of the day.

Thats enough for now, I guess I gave away what category I am in :eek: :eek:

The 41-50 not the super senior one yet :whoa: :whoa:

06-26-2002, 10:48 PM
after that, you like me, are older than dirt.

Bless you my aged son.

06-26-2002, 11:05 PM
I just read an article on some of the history of casting. Back in the early 30's when they used bamboo single hand rods and who knows what else for casting the gold medal distances were in the 180 foot range. Steve rajeff with his nuclear, proton, hyper drive, electro accelerated, depleted uranium rods threw like 171 last year. I'll be darned if you bunch of old geezers weren't doing something right.

(bowing).......We are not worthy oh wise and masterful ones.....


06-27-2002, 06:52 AM
The statistics initially show we have some very experienced FF on board that our lesser experienced collegues can benefit from. I just wish we had the internet when I was a newbie fly fisherman 43 years ago. Back then youhad to wait for the new monthly edition of Outdoor Like, Sports Afield, or Field & Stream and look for tips from Joe Brooks, Ted Trueblood, Lee Wulff, Ernest Schwiebert, and a few others. As I recall there was not even many good fly fishing books back then to learn from them, mostly the monthly magazines.

Now you do a search on the internet find a fly site forumn join and start asking questions and getting informative responses. it really does not seem fair.

Otherwise you had to corner the old experienced fly guys on the river and pry their secrets out of them. And beleive me they were very secretive back then.

Fred I may be 54 years old but every one especially the ladies tell me I don't look a year over 39. Health club fitness instructor thought I was in my 30s and was coming on to me. She is 21 years old. I had to tell her the truth.:chuckle: :chuckle:

Oh well I just have to live my youthful looks and body.:devil:

06-27-2002, 10:03 AM
PM -
Love your fifteen indicators; I still own letter lines and leaky hip boots - does that make me an old bast - oops, no, wait, I forgot - I'm the OLD CURMUDGEON:smokin:

You must've felt pretty good about the come-on, regardless of the outcome:cool:

Fred, you're right, in a way. the magazines were THE introduction and education media, as it seemed written books were slow to emerge unless done by those named individuals, et al. I maintained subscriptions to Outdoor Life, Field&Stream and such even while in grade and high school. When I'd have a chance to visit someone my grandfather knew who fished or hunted, I'd be an instant pest, looking over tackle, displayed books, mags, etc., asking if I could read or borrow to read, not thinking about logistics re: returning to owner; kinda made grandparents angry bugging people. I would read every word; fishing, hunting, expedition, it didn't matter (Mark: I started when I was five, also.)

Also, way back when, the names of people like Harold Gibbs and Al Brewster filtered around the Northeast, perhaps ranging farther, as they became known for their skills and experiences through flyfishing. Our own Arthur Burton is a protege' of these fellows; Art can certainly lend his many years of experience and expertise to our discussion and perhaps he'll weigh in on this.

I did the math (my years :whoa: ) yesterday. Regardless, and I've said this many times, I defer to and respect the age, wisdom and experience of the revered members older than I.

So, if that puts you two, Art, Ironman, myself or others in the same >50 boat, I'd say we're in good company:D

06-27-2002, 10:19 AM
One thing PM forgot and it was a bit before both our times was the purchasing of a new fly rod. In days of old there was no flyshop to go out and buy a top of the line rod like today. When one made the decison to get anything but a begining or starter fly rod that person was already confident in his fishing ability. He would make a call or write a letter to his favorite cane rod builder on a winter day and ask for a bit of the builders time. A time would be set up and the fisherman would most likely drive 5 or 6 hours to the rod builders shop and spend time talking fishing philosophy with the rod builder. The great rod builders of the day had a great understanding of fishing philosophy and could understand exactly what the fisherman needed in a rod. The fisherman would make the drive home knowing something special was about to be created over the next several winter months. I need not go on with the rest of the details but I hope some of the new folks to fly fishing think about the many ways fly fishing was a much more personal experience before the 1970's.

PM also mentioned that how he wished he had the internet when he was learning. PM, I would consider you and me very lucky we did not have the internet and all these how to learn by books and vidios. I am not putting it down as I love to visit and converse here in my own way. But it seems to me that those that are learning and new to fly fishing are at a disavantage today. We learned by total trial and error, yes we always had some help when and only when we personally felt it was needed by an older mentor who was wise enough to understand that you can not teach fishing. So advise came more in the philosophical fishing conversations that took place at the river, sitting in an open doored garage on a Friday evening before the day of fishing or at the kitchen table on a cold Febuary nite, two fishermen tying up flies for opening day. It has been my observation that today I see so many folks who when it comes to learning to fly fish go right to experience "D" and never learn or even understand that there is an A, B, and C experience that forms a strong basis as to who they will be as a fly fisherperson.

06-27-2002, 01:44 PM
DFIX and OC,

Well said. I still have some of my old fly fishing magazines from 25 years ago stored away.

Will have to think of some historical items

Remember those old canvas fishing creels and wicker baskets before vests came in ?

I still have my first fly rod and reel.

Sometimes I wish the internet never happened, remember Alfin Toffler "Future Shock" book's predictions well the information revolution is one of the items that has come true. Accessibilaity and speed of access to information across the world


06-27-2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
DFIX and OC,

Well said. I still have some of my old fly fishing magazines from 25 years ago stored away.

Will have to think of some historical items

Remember those old canvas fishing creels and wicker baskets before vests came in ?

I still have my first fly rod and reel.

Sometimes I wish the internet never happened, remember Alfin Toffler "Future Shock" book's predictions well the information revolution is one of the items that has come true. Accessibilaity and speed of access to information across the world


Hal -

Someone once told me the material things I valued were just 'stuff' and to not miss them; that someone was wrong. Sometimes I wish out loud, more often now, that things were simpler, that we could return to 'simpler' times. The actual truth is things WERE simpler -
children respected their parents, other adults, their peers, did what they were told pretty much without wondering why, under penalty of a suffering worse than death. Today, the child threatens the parent or other adults with legal action, etc.

(I just decided I'm not going to write my dissertation on the differences between 'then and now' here, now.)

This thread, in the electronic world, is a very poignant indicator of just how far we've come in the world, in our continuing evolution, in the development of technology, looking toward a future of who knows what - which is not necessarily a good thing.

At this point, I've written an edited four times, attempting to continue this reply - see withdrawal of dissertation.

To answer the original question of 'how long have I fished' with a fly rod: Forty-five years. I like wicker creels and cane rods and dacron and cast iron and Frozen Pudding ice cream, too.

Some night I might sit down and start a thread entitled "Differences Between Then and Now" - it'd be interesting to see just what any of us think those differences are.

Dble Haul
06-27-2002, 04:05 PM
The direction that this thread has taken reminds me of something that my dad says on occasion....

"It's hard to believe that in the future our current time might be referred to as the good old days."

Now that's perspective! ;)

old man
06-28-2002, 01:07 PM
This got me to thinking after I voted. I went to the years of 6 to 10. These are the years that I went to serious fly fishing. I bought my first fly rod at the earily age of 14. Money from a paper route. I think it was a South Bend bamboo rod with two tips. I bought it at a whim,never fly fished with it. I didn't/couldn't afford the cost of the line.

So I guess that I might of voted wrong. It should have been much longer as I am now 67. And I'm getting younger and prettier every year. :D

06-28-2002, 09:35 PM
:eyecrazy: Where has all those years gone?1943:D

06-29-2002, 09:01 AM
Old Man,

Looks like you should be the 50+ years category, at 61 years of experience based on your post. I will now have to make the adjustment each time I looks at the stats.

Cool, we have gentlemen older than I. Maybe I have 20 years left of walking the rivers ? I am 54 years old now.


P.S. You must be up there with Fred Evans and Art B, etc...

Pat Bahan
06-29-2002, 01:30 PM
I can't remember when I first started to use the fly rod. Maybe at 5 or 6. They say I was fishing at two so I really don't remember a time when I didn't, or wasn't consumed by fishing and hunting. I do remember when I got my first "glass" flyrod at 8. I thought it was a promotion from the "old" rod (bamboo) my uncle Lee had made for me. To much presure at the wrong angle fighting (or should I say horsing) a big bass had broken the tip of my rod. The local hardware store had this black 8'6" glass rod that I thought was the best flyrod (and for me, then, it was)in the world. If memory serves me, I think it was a South Bend. I probably caught more bass and bluegill on that rod than most people see today.

HAL: You braggin' or complaining 'bout that health club gal?:hehe:

06-29-2002, 01:33 PM

Braggin I think :hehe:


P.S. Just wish I still had my black hair again !

Pat Bahan
06-29-2002, 01:50 PM
Naw Hal, I got these grey hairs one student at a time. I just consider them my "white" badge of courage.;)

06-30-2002, 09:03 PM
Where are the "River Runs Through It" generation of fly fishers ?

That movie was out in 1992 or 1993, I have the movie here it says 1993.

One would think there would be more people in the 11-15 years of experience category ?

We are patient, like waiting for the hatch or bite to begin, I am sure they will show up eventually. :chuckle: :chuckle:

old man
07-01-2002, 01:18 PM
Hey Pat, I see that you are a teacher. Just for the record how cum u can't spell streams(streems).:razz:

John Desjardins
07-01-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
Where are the "River Runs Through It" generation of fly fishers ?

That movie was out in 1992 or 1993, I have the movie here it says 1993.

One would think there would be more people in the 11-15 years of experience category ?

We are patient, like waiting for the hatch or bite to begin, I am sure they will show up eventually. :chuckle: :chuckle:

Hal, I am a 14 year person listed in the 11-15 year group who read the book before the movie was released. I don't think you will see a bump in the results due to the film. According to a recent USA Today report on fly fishing 90% of those who picked up fly fishing as a result of the movie have now quit. So there may not be a big ground swell due to the movie.

To any one who read this before my last edit I've deleted a lot of what I said since I've cooled off, and don't want to take away from the topic being discussed here.

Pat Bahan
07-01-2002, 03:04 PM
old man,
A. Thats why I teach social studies not English.
B. I don't type very well. (and apparently don't edit ether)
C. Both of the above.
D. None of the above
E. I dono.:eyecrazy:

07-01-2002, 04:50 PM
First time I've laughed out loud in probably 4 days. I really needed that.:D


07-01-2002, 08:38 PM

I did not see your post before you edited it, did I miss something interesting ?

I found the USA Today article you referred to, interesting, can't wait to meet my first CEO on the river. Suppose they will be with guides though trying to catch up to our knowledge bases as fast as they can. Basically, it is saying these types of people like complex challenges, like I have presently at work, I guess that is why I am still a fly fisherman after 42 years, it is still a challenge and I am still learning.

I think I read the book in the early 1980s and sent it to my brother who is two years younger who I did a lot of fishing with when we were youngsters.

I now have my own copy. Book is better than picture as usual.


John Desjardins
07-01-2002, 10:11 PM
Hal you probably didn't miss a thing. I typed my original response while extremely angry about a bone headed move my soon to be former bank made, and some of the contributors to it. After cooling down tonight I realized that some of what I wrote wandered off topic, was unwarranted and deleted it from my response.

I agree that it is the challenge that keeps me coming back. One or two fish on a day when you've solved a tough problem is better than a 20 hatchery fish day anytime in my book.

07-01-2002, 10:16 PM

I know what you mean, I work for an international insurance company, my boss is one of our senior executives (Chief Counsel), made some bad decisions last week, got me mad, so I decided to take a day off on Friday, go FF, and miss his monthly staff meeting. Today, it sounds like I did not miss much, and I am more relaxed since I had a nice quiet challenging day on Friday fly fishing, as I reported in another post.


old man
07-02-2002, 12:32 PM
Ouch!!!:chuckle: :devil:

07-02-2002, 01:13 PM
caught my attention:

When Targeted Genetics CEO H. Stewart Parker is at work at the Seattle headquarters, she is surrounded by scientists looking for cures for arthritis and cystic fibrosis. "I work with really smart people and fish for really smart fish," she says. "The fish don't do what I say."

H. Sewart Parker is a 'she;' interesting name for a lady .... or a typo?

07-02-2002, 01:52 PM

Truly have you ever met a CEO on the river fishing without a guide?

I took a couple of senior executives who reported to our CEO on a Michigan salmon fishing trip in the early 1980s. I caught most of the fish, they did not. I was fly fishing they were using spinning outfits. After that my career went down stream in that company. :chuckle:

Not really but I could tell they wanted to catch more fish than the others, you know the competitive ego thing.


07-02-2002, 03:45 PM
One thing I have already learned is that if you are out to catch the most and the biggest fish all the time, you might as well take up golf...

WOW, the 31-40 crowd is king around here isn't it?

I think I am part of the next generation of flyfisherman, the 1-5 yearers'!

07-02-2002, 04:12 PM
Well, Stone, I would hazard to say that the 1 - 5 years experience is king, at least as far as this poll goes. The 31 - 40 group represents a 10 year time frame, as has been pointed out, and seems to take an Andersonesque (Enron/Worldcom) twist in the rule. Chances are the numbers would read otherwise were this term reduced to reflect the 5 year period.


07-12-2002, 04:13 PM
New members make your vote.

I guess the next demographics should seek to determine where every one if from in the world ? Sure is a lot of experience in years of the 54 members which voted to date.

If we have a 1000 members and only 54 have voted to date we need a greater sample to make any type of statistical inference though.

How many fly fishers are there in the world ? I beleive I heard recently there were several million fly fisherman in the US. Which sounded high to me.

Has any body seen current statistics on this ?

07-12-2002, 06:27 PM
Stone, and all of you other 1-5 year guys........

Something that you have to look forward to is the fact that you now have instant access to information that I could have only dreamed of a few years ago. I participate in several forums around and the conversations are with the likes of Lefty Kreh, Mel Kreiger, ect. Actually you never know who you are visiting with on the other end of these things. The perspectives are diverse, probably to the point of some confusion.

I guess the point here though is that those of the 10+ year guys had to go to much greater lengths to find our information. Before if I were traveling to a new river I would have to spend several days gathering information on flies, lodging, the river, ect. Now in just a few minutes I can know as much as a near local. The same holds true with techniques, fly tying, equipment, everything.

There is no doubt in my mind that you guys will be much better fishers than any of us old hats in here. At least you wont have to go through all the trial and error that we did. Kinda makes me a little jealous.:razz:


07-12-2002, 07:16 PM
Trial and error has always been the best part of the fly fishing challenge to me, figuring out the fish, river, and the proper timing and techniques etc.

Plugging into the internet and looking up the information available gives people a good head start on what us old timers had to do by trial and error, which we could take a year or two, or more to learn on any given river or species of fish, etc..

In any event you still have to execute on the rivers with the information provided by the net and that is where we separate the information only angler from the on the river practical experienced fellows.

08-14-2002, 11:47 AM
Any new members like to vote it is anonymous ?

Nooksack Mac
08-14-2002, 02:34 PM
Has anyone else gotten into fly fishing because of a magazine cover?
S'help me: Dad was the manager of the local hardware store, which gave him, let's just say, access to lots of tackle, and Wednesday afternoons off, when he would pull me out of school and up to one or another Blue Ridge Mt. trout stream. I liked the outings - what boy wouldn't? but not the fishing - I preferred rock-skipping, probably too close to where Dad was trying to fish.
But sometime later, browsing through a stack of his accumulated men's magazines...there was a cover painting on the "True" or "Argosy", one of those still-life closeups of a strange rod and reel resting on pegs in a weathered wood wall, next to a rattan creel and some funny little feather lures. In one of the magazines was an article on the Ausable River by Ed Zern, making it sound like a shrine for a world religion. Incrementally, I was drawn into what I realized was a sub-culture. I wanted to belong.;)

08-14-2002, 09:19 PM
I just squeak into the 51+ category. Still have my Dad's Thomas split cane rod and use it occasionally. I also have my first "noodle" AKA fiberglass rod and a Boron rod and the first series of Sage graphite rod and many others in between.
Started at age 5 because I was the youngest then and that was the rule, the youngest gets to go fishing, happily it turned into a passion. Went through the "Elite" stage, AKA "I only Fly Fish with a dry line", discovered the Atlantics at an early age when runs in the 80,000 were real, focussed on brookies for several years, got into bass bugging, pike fishing and the pursuit of every kind of finny friend with a fly line. College years took me to the Cape and the salt for that was the "in thing" for us hippies.
Became a yuppie, that was a real bore, wine & cheese on the stream in the Catskills, give me a break! Did get a lot of girls though.
Maturity came late, my wife says it has yet to happen! Got into collecting bugs for 20+ years and wifey said that I had to get rid of the collection or else, that was last year. Did the Bonefish & Tarpon trick, that is real great sport FFishing. Got one Marlin, by mistake. Got into Steelies 18 years ago when I moved West, still think it is a blast to hook up up with a chromer, do the Coho trick on occaison.
Learned a lot a few years back from Juro & Roop & John and Art B. Caught my first Tunoid/Albie with Art B. a few years back.
I think I belong to the 1-54 category, There is still so much to learn, even with all that I can remember, and yes I still have an original wicker basket of the type that is seen is the "movie".

08-16-2002, 11:11 PM
Folks I must say this is one of the most enjoyable discussions I've ever read. It takes me back to talks in the garage, the basement, the attic, or occasionally the living room or kitchen at my parents house or one of dad's friends when the talk would be of fly fishing. Like PM and others herein, I remember the HDH, HCH, GBS, etc, line designations, quality bamboo rods like Leonards that were $15.00 to $175 with two tips and a case, canvas waders, etc.

Then there was the joy of rewrapping your rod every few years to preplace the cnake guides that had become grooved because they were not chrome or other plated. Phlueger reels like the ones Joe Brooks fished with (at least they were in the photos accompanying his writing. And let's not forget the leader material that would be 3 pound test for 0.009 material if you bought a good brand.

I was given my first never used. brand- new fly rod for my 8th birthday, along with a new pair of hip boots, South Bend single action reels and a Cortland 333 weight forward line. Man, I was in 7th heaven that birthday. The rod was a Shakespear Wonder Rod 8'9" long for a HCH line. I fished that rod from that birthday until it broke from fatique cracks just above the grip in 1976. It was replaced with a Fenwick HMG 8'6'' 6 weight that I built without the benefit of instruction from either book or person. I figured that since I has reqrapped the old Shakespear so many time (it even had 4 different thread colors on it when it finally gave up the ghost) because I counld't find the thread I used the last time and just bought what was available at the local sporting goods store where we bought everything from baseball bats to rifles to fly rods to shorgun shells.

I began fly fishing when I was 5 because my father was a flyfisher he felt is was important to pass on his love of the outdoors and fly fishing too us kids. I have been fly fishing for 44 years now and have been very fortunate to have lived in areas that allowed me to sample some very fine fishing and meet and get to know some very fine, and sometimes well-known or famous, fly fishiers and fly tyers.

PM, thanks for the trip down memroy lane and for allowing others to do so as well. Fly fishing is truly the genteel sport.

08-17-2002, 08:09 AM
Nooksak Mac

Yep remember those old Outdoor Life covers and articles on FF thats what got me going after my buddies father got us into FF when I was 11 or 12 years old, 42 years ago. Great memories of Joe Brooks FF articles. Remember American Sportsman - Curt Gowdy tv shows, another was Gadabout Gaddis fishing shows.

French Creek

Some great diversified FF experience. But a marlin by mistake ? Yuppie in the Catskills, Yep know about those waters. Thats where I cut my teeth.

Fly Tyer

I still have my first fly rod a Garcia Royal , 6 weight. Great boyhood trout fishing memories with that. Also have the Pleuger Medalist reel. I pulled it out and fished with it two weeks ago in the Black Hills, SD. Still very functional, built like a rock. Wish I still had my automatic fly reel. But it was stolen 40 years ago.

08-19-2002, 04:35 PM
Wow, still only two newbie FF, hard to believe.

Thats good less of the "River Runs Through It" types with us on the rivers. The less crowded the better, solitude is an objective for me as much as possible when I get to go.

If I wanted to meet other fisherman I would not be be fly fishing but spin casting at the piers or upstream dam end points.

08-19-2002, 08:11 PM
Pm Flyfisher,

I hve a rather found memeroy of an automatic Perine fly reel. This was the reel that dad gave me to use when I was 6 along with an old Heddon 7' bamboo rod with a metal and plastic reel seat. The rod was a real peice of junk, but I thought it was great that I got to use bamboo instead of the telescoping steel rods that dad would find for me at garage sales before the Heddon.

Anyway, this rod and the Perine auto reel were matched up with a level line of some king when dad got it at the estate sale. Man I thought it was so cool to have the line zip back up through the guides with just the pull on a level.

The reason this is so fond is dad took me bluegill fishing at a local farmer's pond (I grew up in Northeastern Pennsylvania) and armed me with some small poppers. I had one of the smaller bluegills took a popper and I then hit the lever on the Perine. That poor fish just about zipped out of the water and I had to duck. I loved the way this reel did all the work.

Needlwss to say on a later trip with that rod a reel, I managed to put a hook into my thumb when I hit the lever by mistake when I was holding a fly. Dad took the hook out and delighted in telling all of his fly flishing friends (which was about 4 people, this was back in the late 1959). I still thought this was the coolest reel though because it grought in the line with out my needing to reel it in.

This reel went to the garbage can after my younger brother decided that he just had to take it apart to find out what made it work. He took it apart, lost pieces of it, put it back together again, but it wouldn't reel back in by itself. I felt like murdering him for ruining 'my reel'.

08-19-2002, 08:44 PM

Good story, LOL.

Was that Perrine reel a burgundy color ? Cannot remember if I had the Perrine or was it a South Bend automatic ?

The one I had was burgundy.

My friend had a black one which I think was made by Shakespere.

Now all I have is my Plueger Medalist which is from the 1960s. Still works.


08-19-2002, 09:06 PM
Pm Flyfisher,

It was burgundy in color. I think Pfleuger had one in green and a lttle better one in gold. Shakespear had one that I think was available in either black or blue.

I bought myself a 'real' fly real like Joe Brooks used, w Phleuger Medalist when I was 13 from money I earned from a paper route. I fished it for two years and lost it and a new SA Airflow line in a rather treacheous part of the Lehigh River in Northeastern Pennsylvania that was full of very large boulders and was unwadeable. I was walking on the trail acroos the top of a rock cliff above this stretch of river after fishing with dad and my two younger brothers in the pools above it. Anyway, I was taking the Medalist off the rod as I was walking and not really paring attention to what I was doing. You guesed it, I dropped the Medalist, it bounced off the ground and over the cliff into the drink. It may still be there today! Man was I mad at myself.

Dad took pitty on me and bought another Medalist and SA Airflow to replace, but he didn't tell me he did so until he took me fishing the following week and gave it to me at the stream.

Alas, it was stolen 18 years ago in Great Falls, Montana along with the Fenwich HMG I built when I parked the truck in the alley of a friend for 2 hours. The thief got my rod, reel, spare spools, flies, vest, etc. he lest my waders and wading shoes.

08-19-2002, 09:21 PM
Still have my Shakespeare Automatic from the days of yore. Can't figure out what to do with it. Tried using it to exercise the kittens but it winds way too fast. Been thinking it might work on a float tube to haul in a light anchor. Would give it away if asked, really just gets in the way.

Flytyer, you live close to me, want it?


08-20-2002, 08:03 AM
Water Sprite,

I think using it as a boat anchor retriever sounds good to me. When I was a young 'un, I thought automatics were the coolest. But nowawadays, me thinks a boart anchor retriever is its proper use.

To answer your question about wanting it, naw, give it to someone more deserving of such treasure.

08-20-2002, 01:53 PM

Then is was definitely the Perrine automatic I had in maroon.
Thanks for refreshing my memory.


10-08-2002, 02:43 PM
My conclusion is that we have a lot of multi international opinionated fly fishing experience on this board to leverage our personal knowledge further.

If you have not voted feel free, it is anonymous.

10-08-2002, 02:51 PM
From WS:Still have my Shakespeare Automatic from the days of yore.

Found three very! old reels in a box Saturday and one was an old automatic Shakespeare. Has to be 45+++ years old and still worked fine.


10-08-2002, 03:03 PM
Is it black and gold ?

10-08-2002, 04:00 PM
Green top silver body.

10-08-2002, 07:31 PM
My memory must be going like my hearing and eye sight is.

But I can still fly fish for steelhead hard all day, thats what really counts. :chuckle:

I remember a black body and gold trim shakespeare automatic and believe I also had a Perrine or South Bend, burgundy color automatic reel. Don't know what happened to them when I went away for 4 years to the USAF in the late sixties, came home and younger brother had claimed lots of my stuff, traded/sold it for other fishing equipment, he is not a fly fisherman, spinning guy only to this day.

10-09-2002, 12:04 AM

This is the type of reel an old fishing buddy of mine back in the late 60's and early 70's used to fish worms ('er, I mean grubs or meal worms) and minnows for trout. Cal was in his 50's, a friend of the family, and one terrific worm and live bait (minnow) fishermen.

Spent many an enjoyable day trout fishing rivers and streams in Northeast Pennsylvania with Cal using his worms or live bait. He used an old Leonard bamboo rod. I called him a heretic. He simply said that good bamboo gave him a better feel of when a trout took the bait. And he liked the automatic fly reel loaded with a level floating line because he could get the fish on thereel with a simple push of the trigger.

10-09-2002, 08:38 AM
Oh yes I remember those old timers back east. Actually me and a couple of my friends converted from ultra light spinning rods to fly rods to fish worms and salmon eggs, grasshoppers, and inch worms for trout in NJ and NYS. Then we converted to full fly fishing. Caught many a trout on a fly rod with worms and salmon eggs great feel on the drift.

Have not seen any one doing that out here in the mid west in the last 23 years for trout, salmon, or steelhead with the fly rod and bait. Must be a lost art ?

10-09-2002, 10:03 PM
I caught my first trout behind my Grandmothers farm in a little stream called Bear Creek near Woodeville Washington in the summer of 1950. It was caught on a worm, or so I'm told! The old gal was so proud of the event she took a photo and sent it in to the Washington Farmer a small ruaral newspaper that had a section just for displaying grand and sometimes (obviously) not so grand kids. I still have a copy of the picture and the clipping from the paper.
I have fished whenever I could with whatever was available for my entire life. I remember catching and dumping the little mud skippers that we would chum up with bread balls (rolled up like spit wads),after dipping them out of the muddy waters of the Mekong River in Viet Nam. With no rod, no reel, and no hooks or line, a deck bucket on a short length of rope was the only available fishing implement. and whereas the fish were too small for the plate I released them. You know I bet I'm the only guy in the world who prosecuted a catch and release fishery in the Mekong River!!!! I guess it kept me on the sane side a little longer. It was sight fishing and the bread balls were on the surface so....
A little closer to home (and this thread) I first took up the Fly Rod in earnest in the summer of 1958 and have spent more time fly fishing as my addiction evolved even started trying to catch steelhead while in High School I didn't get one until 1965 in the Elwha. Funny thing about that was I was on the tennis team and had skipped practice to fish an afternoon tide down at the Place I caught the fish and the Tennis Coach heard all about it and kicked me off the Tennis Team well I still own tennis racquets but I use them once every 5 years or so fly rods on the other hand....
You know now that I am thinking in this vane I seem to remeber getting kicked out of the Boy Scouts for fishing also. We were on a little overnight pack in to the Lillian River, a beautiful little river that is a tributary to the Elwha its as I recall about a 5 or 6 mile hike and a place I had fished previosly so I was eager to do so again. Now no one said anything about an abolition on angling in the boy scouts and I had the fishing merit badge so I thought it was cool to bring along a little tackle. We had no more than made camp when the Scout Master made the annoucement that we could do anything for the next two hours except Fish I asked when would we be able to fish and he said that he did not want anyone fishing on this outing.
I did not argue and I did not even consider for one instant that I was not going to go fishing so I wandered down the creek and proceede to harvest a mall sapling and and afixxed a length of leader and started to catch fish some body was watching and somebody told the SM and this one didn't get to receive his Eagle Scout Badge. Oh well the story of a miss spent youth is a short one.

10-09-2002, 11:33 PM

When a younster I used to hike 3 miles, 4 miles, or 6 miles (depended on whether I wanted to fish for brook trout, rainbows, or browns) to fly fish. I was 9 when I started to do this. Boy was mopm ever mad at me the first time I left thehouse before daylight and didn't get back home until after dark. My butt still remembers it.

Dad was not nearly as upset as mom. But he did tell me that I should not be out walking around in the woods alone at dark. I protested and he then gave me a little warming too.

This didn't stop me from making these hikes though. I quit scouts because our scoutmaster wouldn't let me take my fly rod on hiking/camping trips. Why go camping or hiking along a trout filled stream if you can't fish, how dumb. The scoutmaster didn't think we should be wasting our time fishing when there were things to explore and see in the woods as one walked along.

In fact, I went fishing the evening of my high school prom, girlfriend at the time didn't like it. Oh well, the Eastern Green Drakes were hatching and dad was going to fish the hatch. What's a fellow too do? Sure glad I found a gal in Montana who likes to fly fish to marry. Most of our friends think she is a little off wanting to go fling a bit of feathers, hair, and fur into the stream or river. Her parents aren't sure if I'm OK yet either even though we now have grandkids or our own.

Glad to hear there are others our there who had to learn that you couldn't fish nearly everyday and have a job, wife, and kids. Sure mis being able to go to the river pretty much whenever I want to though I wouldn't trade my wife, kids, job for that ability either. They are all too enjoyable to give up.

10-15-2002, 01:01 PM

01-31-2003, 08:01 PM
Wow no posts since 10/15, we must have some new members who have not voted yet out there.

Go ahead and lets see how our FF experience demographic changes now.

PM Out

01-31-2003, 08:41 PM
Pehaps there is a reason why, some things run their course. Perhaps this one did.

01-31-2003, 09:59 PM
"Its not over until its over"

Already got two more votes.

PM Out

Trivia: Yogi Berra still lives in the area of Northern NJ I grew up, saw him a lot at Yankee Stadium and in Joisey. Cool guy, a legend for sure.

01-31-2003, 10:12 PM
Notice that there are not that many who have been fly fishing less than 1 year? This gives credence to those who have written about the smaller number of people taking up the sport of fly fishing. Thankfully there is a bit of a spike in percentage who have been fly fishing for between 1 and 5 years. There is also quite a few of us who have been fly fishing over 40 years!

What a wealth of fly fishing and fly tying information we have available between the members of the board. A newcomer could do far worse to find good, solid information about how to fly fish in general and how to use a 2-hander.

Kudos to Juro and Dana for starting this for our collective benefit.

02-01-2003, 12:53 AM
I got 23+ years...

I wonder if we would have over a century of experience if everyone's was added up?

02-01-2003, 06:20 AM
I've got over 60 years, myself! If you added up all of the experience on here, you just might make a milennium! (not kidding!)


02-01-2003, 06:35 AM
Just for laughs, I took the "averages" (e.g. for 51 to 60+ years, I used 55, .... for LT1, I used 1/2 year.). Then I multiplied that by the number of responses for each category on the graph. Guess what - the final "estimate" comes out to 1958 YEARS of experience! That number could be about 10% high or low, but if everyone was truthful, that's what I come up with!


02-01-2003, 06:54 AM
Cooll, thanks Bob, maybe Juro, Dana, and Sean can use that in the marketing material for the sight ?

If they do not see it, I will shoot them a PM on it or you can.

BTW, I am a 43 year fly fisher, and still learning !

Keep the votes coming in, got 23 more since I resurrected it.

PM Out

Pat Bahan
02-01-2003, 12:56 PM
I'm jealous. You got me by 2.

02-01-2003, 02:08 PM
i've been FF for since i was 11 so next year i will change to the next catagory. plan to be one of those 60+'ers

Pat Bahan
02-01-2003, 02:21 PM
I was 8 when I got my first flyrod. I can't remember how long I had used papaw's rod so I just count from there.
Hope I'm still around to hit the 60 category. Just 19 more!

02-01-2003, 02:24 PM
my uncle taught me how to FF and years before that he taught my dad. tomorrow i'll be taching my dad how to again.

Pat Bahan
02-01-2003, 02:32 PM
Sounds like a great day. Hope the old man gives you a good run for your money.:hehe:

Robert Meiser
02-01-2003, 03:16 PM
Oh, I love this thread !!!

I still had a full head a hair when I started ff...Took 45 years to lose 75% of it !

Spent my early days bike pedaling to the Sand Country streams of Central Wisc....The Willow, Mecan, White, Pine, and a few others.

Most of these were classic spring fed brush creeks, and we called it "Jungle Fishing"

I Used a bamboo pole. But not a split cane rod: A Calcutta bamboo pole about 6 foot long, with all the interior membranes reamed out from butt to tip.

I Attached a single action bird cage to the butt of the pole with fine copper wire, and bored a hole in the pole below the seat so I could run an A level line through the inside of the Calcutta, and have it come out the tip.

I'd crawl on hands and knees weaseling through the creekside tangled Buck Brush. Just above the deeper under cuts, I'd stuff the pole tip through the brush, and feed line into the dark pools right into the waiting mouths of tiddler Brookies.

Did I use a fly ? You bet....McGinty Bees, Pass Lakes, Belles, whatever.

But I gotta admit, I often tipped em with a little crawler....Just to get the fly down mind you !!

Can you call this Fly Fishing ?

Who cares, I was 10 years old !!!

I was building rods, and fishing....Funny....things have'nt changed that much............... :^)

Bob meiser

02-01-2003, 03:34 PM

I fished many small brooks in NJ and NYS as a youngster started trout fishing at 10 and fly fishing at 12 years old. Actually used the fly rod with bait first: worms. salmon eggs, inch worms, sewn shiners etc. Then at 12 -13 went all flys. Parmachene Belle, Royal Coachman, Mcginty Bee, Cahills, Black Gnats and then on to the complex Catskill hatches on the Beaverkill, Willowemuc etc. 43 years later here I am, what fun it has been.

PM Out

02-01-2003, 04:26 PM
Good day,
I grew up in a family where "Fly fishing equipment" was the norm.I remember my dad would always pick these out-of- the- way spots to cast into, seemed he wanted to test the limits imposed by the stream. That water was most often the "Quinny" just outside Holden, either somewhere around the "cables" or at one of the bridges. We did alot of stillwater as well, driving hours to spots in N.W Mass, Vermont, or N.H., or even breaking the boundries in Canada.
Once, while stillwater flyfishing in Canada with a friend, my dad saw a male Moose with an imposing "rack" enter the lake at one end to swim to the other. He had his friend pull the canoe up along side the animal, jumped out, and grabing the antlers, rode the beast to the other side, knowing it was fairly harmless in the water! Dad taught me to cast when I was 8, as his dad did for him. Great thread!

02-01-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by artb
:eyecrazy: Where has all those years gone?1943:D

I say we all wish Art a Happy Sixtieth Anniversary !!! Happy Anniversary, Art! :D

02-03-2003, 03:29 PM
my dad didn't really want to learn and the only reason he doesn't fly fish is because everything is pretty expensive. we saw some fish but didn't catch anything and i ended up running from a SKUNK and loosing my gear on the trail (found everything luckily)

02-03-2003, 04:52 PM
I've been FFishin for 4 years, but I have been telling the tall tale about how many and how big all my life. (now, if I don't get that film developed of the monster bonefish Juro is gonna leave me at the tip at the next rip trip!):hehe:

02-03-2003, 06:43 PM
Great, votes have gone up by 12 since I resurrected this thread keep them coming.

Bobk have our years experience demographic materially changed since your last statistical analysis above ?

Something to do in addition to fishing and watching the grand kids while I slave away in corporate world. You know what I mean, you were there.


PM Out

02-03-2003, 07:16 PM
Hmmmm a worhwhile endeavor?.

02-05-2003, 04:16 PM
I have just finished reading this 6 page thread and had to reply. I started fishing when I was 2 and caught a flounder off the CA coast
I got "my" first fly rod when I was 12 from my grandfather when he died (not the best way to get gear )and I still fish with it. It is a Heddon 9' with a Langley reel both made in the 40's,It's great for slow lazy daze fishing. The first trout I caught on a fly was in the eastern Sierra Nevada mountains in a steam that contained native golden trout on a size 14 royal coachman.
I have gone on and bought modern gear and other toys but nothing will ever surpass the joy I felt that day cathing a 7" golden and that is what fishing is all about to me; a memory thread emerging from the youthfull joy of my first fish on a fly to my next fish on a fly year after year .

For all of the new anglers out there the best thing about starting now is that information is so easy to get and the worst thing is that information is so easy to get. Don't get side-tracked by all that you read, flyfishing is best when done on the water after alot of practice on dry land learning to cast accuratelly. Not the other way around. Just my .02

02-05-2003, 04:35 PM
Yes its a great thread and we now have 95 votes !

Keep them coming, we know there are lots more registered members.

Remember its totally anonymous so be honest about your experience.

Although I would love to know what Mr. Evan voted on this one. :devil:

I know he flung the hardware gear for a quite a while and still may at times.

PM Out

02-05-2003, 05:35 PM
1. Moosestang - You REALLY have a Langley reel on the rod your grandfather had? Wow. That was the 'ne plus extra" back in those days! (I never could afford one when they were around.)
Today, most guys would laugh at 'em. Keep using it, and enjoy! I'm envious.

2. Hal - SOME of us also have to do our taxes now that the W-2s and 1099s are in (so we can get BIG FAT REFUNDS to hide from our wives and spend on new spey rods that we fell in love with at a fishing show!). :hehe:

Seriously, Hal, I will redo the total after the replies stop coming in for a few days. Easier to do the whole thing at once, rather than updating.


02-05-2003, 06:52 PM
A Langley reel never heard of one must have been an earlier fly fishing generation from mine. Perhaps Fred would know of this reel ?

Bob, yes I also am working on the maximization of the tax refund only I cannot hide it from my astute corporate accountant and now real estate broker wife. I will find enough for that spey rod in some deduction category. :devil:

No rush on the updated statistics perhaps after we get a 100 responses ?

PM Out

02-05-2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
Yes its a great thread and we now have 95 votes !

Although I would love to know what Mr. Evan voted on this one. :devil:

I know he flung the hardware gear for a quite a while and still may at times.

PM Out

Nothing wrong with flinging harware. Even RH Bown was a hardware flinger. Go figure.

wet fly
02-06-2003, 11:54 AM
After using some cheap bamboo rods with the two tips, my first "good" rod was made from a Herters blank. It was a 9 foot 2 piece rod with steel ferrels. I remember the green thread that was used. I think the blank cost in the 12 dollar range. It came with a double taper and the line was brown. My first serious fishing was for the sea-run cuthroat. They were a great fish to learn on. They were eager to hit the fly. Living on the ledgonary Stillaguamish river I met some of the great fly fishermen. Al Knutson comes to mind to give a kid some of his famous spider flys. I also had a local mentor Emil. Emil worked in the local feed mill. He worked 5 and a half days per week and fished evenings sat. afternoon and all sunday. I fished many evenings well after dark with Emil. His favorite saying was oh how it smelled. The smell was me getting skunked after he had a nice basket of trout for diner. This happened over 50 years ago. I am thankful I am able to still spend much time on the river. Jerry

02-06-2003, 06:11 PM
Memories are meant to be enjoyed.

Especially fishing memories.

02-06-2003, 07:19 PM
Lets start a thread your fondest fishing memory or perhaps of the big fish you have lost on a fly.

I leave it up to you to start it I am working on some other threads yet, like this one, L. Wulff trivia, Fishing Quotes, Hair wing swap, etc. etc....

If things get real dull around here in the dregs of winter, we may have to resurrect the dreaded "Technology" or "Ethics" threads, that were so hot at this time last year. But I don't want to go there unless I am coerced by others.

PM Out

02-06-2003, 07:35 PM
Memories can only be truly enjoyed and appreciated by those who they are about.:)

02-07-2003, 11:22 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobK
[B]1. Moosestang - You REALLY have a Langley reel on the rod your grandfather had? Wow. That was the 'ne plus extra" back in those days! (I never could afford one when they were around.)
Today, most guys would laugh at 'em. Keep using it, and enjoy! I'm envious.

Yes they (I have 2 with the original boxs) are great especially since the reel balances the bamboo rod so well.:cool:

02-09-2003, 07:12 PM
C'mon, guys - all we need is TWO MORE VOTES! Then, we will have 100. Hal conned me into figuring out how many TOTAL years of FF experience, and I said I would at 100.

After he "lost out in a love affair" with a spey rod, this is the least we can do to cheer him up. Let's go, guys!

BobK ;)

02-10-2003, 03:56 PM

Looks like the last two votes to make a 100 will be hard to get but we can wait a few more days. Look forward to your analysis since the votes have not gone on up by 20 since I resurrected this last week.

Heck I put this thread up last June and will be time to start a new poll on years of FF experience soon.

BTW, the lite spey love is not done with yet "Its not over until its over". :D

PM Out

P.S. How do you like my new avatar ?

02-10-2003, 06:35 PM
Must be a reason for the responses or lack there of.

Perhaps a new poll to figure out why it took 8 months to nearly complete this one.

02-10-2003, 06:55 PM
Good idea, perhaps a poll to determine if we need another poll ?

I will talk to our forumn statistician (BobK) about this at our next forumn poll planning meeting.

Thanks for the idea.

PM Out

02-10-2003, 07:48 PM
What's this "Not over 'til it's over" business?

Let's be objective about this:

1. If you REALLY wanted it, it would reside in your hands now.
2. BUT you might be sleeping with the malemutes.
3. And the kids need funds for college.
4. Or defer the decision. Better look at what your tax refund is before making a decision. (You've been putting it off for quite a while, as is.)
5. Or, instead of all this, buy another jug of merlot! BTW, with all these jugs you have had over the decision, you probably spent as much as the rod costs ALREADY!

And here I thought you were an executive. When it comes time to make a big decision, MAKE IT and live with it without looking back!
Hindsight is always 20/20 - it takes testosterone to risk the unknown!

Now, go get 'em, Tiger!


PS please advise when I should do "the grand summary"!

02-10-2003, 08:40 PM
No rush on the new spey rod everything is frozen here now any way. I am sure the right decision will be made. Hard to make a quick decision when its your money, when its the companies its easier.

The siberians are here at my feet waiting for me to drop some table scraps to both of them. Great dogs, and you should see that fur and tails. Don't know how I am going to sneak some hair off of them with out my wife and kids knowing, but I am sure I will find a way !

I can see it now a siberian steelhead hairwing fly swap in which I control all tyer participants materials. I could have a good old monopoly on this, full control of supply.

I guess do the final poll results when we hit 100 votes sure there will be some new people soon willing to cast their vote.

Are you going to update the GL steelhead stocking thread with our new information or wait ?

PM Out

02-11-2003, 06:29 AM
Hal, this bomb needs an ATTORNEY'S touch to add credibility. If you don't have the testosterone for it, I'll do it - but I would expect some back-up.

I have been called some pretty bad stuff already (see the TSS posts as well!), and my "credibility" has been called in to question when I mention talk TU and question "motives". Besides, I didn't get the TU letter to quote it.

The bill is bad enough, but when added to the TU support - this will start a small WAR.

I'll do it if you are scared, but make sure you let me know one way or the other. THIS BILL HAS TO BE MODIFIED to exempt state efforts for sportfishing opportunity, or we won't have a steelie, brown and salmon fishery.

You or me? Please advise


02-11-2003, 09:32 AM

Yes I saw the TSS posts.

We need a "legal side bar" off line to discuss strategy further.

Tonight on personal email ?

Pm Out

02-11-2003, 10:36 AM
TSS is a bane on our GL fishery.

They have posted the PM to death, I wonder why?

That sweet little river gets more traffic than the Dan Ryan on a Friday night. Such is the curse of the Internet.

02-11-2003, 11:14 AM
Their number of postings have dropped dramitically , they are seeking donations. I think the end is near. :D :D :D

I am one happy guy also about this.

PM Out

02-11-2003, 11:24 AM

There are now 101 votes, please execute the statistical analysis at your earliest convienence (if it does not interfere with your fly tying, steelhead fishing, or minding the grand children, or honey dos of course) we anxiously await the analysis and statistical deductions.

PM Out

02-11-2003, 12:16 PM
The whole world is in suspense.

02-11-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher

P.S. How do you like my new avatar ?

"we'll put a boot in your ass it's the american way!" toby kieth "the angry american"
love that song

02-11-2003, 08:49 PM
Hal - I have been babysitting for my 2 1/2 year old grandson today - all day. Day filled with laughs and bonding. Made supper and fed us, then Mom and the 2 "big sisters" came home at 7:30 PM, just as I was changing his "VERY MESSY" diaper - but they brought home THE NEIGHBOR'S MALEMUTE! This occurred while the phone was ringing, and I was attempting to answer it! (They also have a Golden Retriever, and the two dogs are "buddies". Walker (my grandson) was very good - and I had him "reasonably" clean.

Cassy (the malemute) took a very keen interest in nosing the soiled diaper, while I was trying to do a final cleaning on Walker, talk on the phone, push the dog away, and answer the "big sister's" questions about whether I had brought Chocolate Chip cookies from Grandma, telling my daughter how things went, and keeping the malemute out of the VERY SOILED diaper, all at the same time. Finally, everything was under control, and I came home.

As a result, right now I am spending a few quiet moments with some single malt for company. I will do the math tomorrow AM when I am in better shape to do so. I hope you understand - if you don't, (nasty words, and I don't think the act is I would prescribe is physically possible).:tsk_tsk:


02-12-2003, 03:39 PM
This is my THIRD attempt to send this. Every time I hit "Post", my server disconnects!

2/12, 102 respondents.

Using the averages as I described earlier, we have 2244 YEARS of experience based upon the answers. Again, it's based on averages, and could be as much as 10% high or low. I don't personally feel that it's off by that much, however.


02-12-2003, 04:00 PM
malemutes are great dogs i have only seen one and i was hooked i fishing with some friends and we threw some dead suckers away and the dog ate them we were fishing for northerns ever since i wanted one but now i'm geting into upland bird hunting and want to get a "brit"

02-12-2003, 06:17 PM
Good choice! Brits are GREAT bird dogs. And they are just small enough so they
won't be in the way most of the time. Great hunters, with good, strong hunting heart bred into them.

BTW, I was kidding Hal about the malemutes, not to take them fishing. They have a difference in thinking about "catch and release - just release long enough to get a bigger bite!"
(The Eskimos and Innuits feed 'em all winter on chum salmon - that's also why they are also called "dog" salmon.)


02-13-2003, 04:04 PM
dog sledders fed their dogs salmon

02-13-2003, 04:44 PM
The Innuits used to net salmon in the run season. They had drying racks to preserve the salmon they preferred. The chum salmon (dog salmon) were thrown under the firewood pile so nothing could get at 'em.

In winter, as their firewood decreased, they would pick up the exposed salmon to feed their sled dogs. Sound economic policy.


02-15-2003, 03:15 PM

Thanks for the analysis Bob.

Thats a lot of fly fishing experience which makes us a very knowledgeable consumer audience for fly fishing manufacturers to try and market to.

Most of us probably have 5-10 fly rods or more and are prudent in our additional fly fishing expenditures.

I would think most of us are looking for the higher value and quality fly fishing tackle.

There are not many capricious buyers of fly fishing tackle in this consumer group the way I see it.

Thats why I am taking my time with the analysis of the lite spey rod purchase ! :D :D

PM Out

02-15-2003, 03:38 PM
How can you analyze something you have never cast?

You need to formulate your own opinion by doing more than waving it in the air.

Buying it on someone elses opinion is like seeing the commercial and running out and buying it.

02-15-2003, 06:45 PM
mjyp is RIGHT ON! Think of it - we all have individual preferences and opinions of what makes a good rod - (or woman, car, shotgun, or drink for that matter!) . One man's prized rod is the next guy's junk. NEVER, EVER buy a rod on someone else's say so (or not!)!

Some guys like super-fast tip actions, some guys like very slow rods, bending all the way to the butt, what we called in the old days a "parabolic" action, and every variation in between.

Next question that comes to mind is "Can you really 'put the wood' to em with a rod that light?" Wearing down and landing a fish quickly assists their survival for C&R fishing. It is better handled with a "heftier" rod, regardless of tippet strength.

I am the first to admit that breaking strength of a tippet is the real limiting factor, but you really have to fight 'em aggressively. I'm just not sure of a 5 wt.

Not to knock your rod choice, you MAY be able to do these things with it. (I have a favored 6-wt rod that I will put up against 8 wts., but that is an old, heavy and now obsolete rod! Not my newer, "delicate" 6-wt. though. )

Hal, the only way to REALLY tell is to try it. If you like it, buy it. We only travel this road once, you know. After a season on chrome - maybe a couple of pig salmon, too - then you will know if it's "right" (and maybe end up with a "busted" rod). Not to worry - Sage has a pretty good warranty. But that's the only way you will know for sure.

Just my personal advice and opinion.


02-15-2003, 09:28 PM
Lets see I have been fly fishing 43 years, have 12 fly rods, and I have not test casted one of them prior to buying.

I cannot test cast this one since there is not one within probably 2000 miles of here. Anyway test casting it in a fly shop parking lot is not my interpretation of a valid test any way. This is a big problem buying fly rods you cannot adequately test them before you purchase them unlike other products. Cars, cameras, skiis, golf clubs, tennis racquets, boats, etc all can be tested before purchasing.

I can assure you before I drop the $ 700 nut on it I will have more information on this rod then I do now. There will be others on the board seeing it eventually and will have opinions.

It is not prudent to be an "Early Adopter" of new technology, I did that once with the Fiat 124 Sport Coupe and paid the big price in $$$$.

Especially when you have an italian lithuian princess, accountant, real estate broker WIFE !!

PM Out

02-21-2003, 11:16 PM
my grandfather put a fly rod in my hand when i was six.....a bamboo model made of tonkin cane his father built in Bonham Tx in the thirties.....that was 25 years ago ...that old rod is long gone... i swing my own stick and will have casting lessons with my niece next week (on her sixth birthday)

Can vegetarians eat "Animal Crackers"?

02-23-2003, 10:29 PM

I got to cast this "wonder rod" at this past Friday's Spey Clave her in Washington state. That said, I would never consider using this 5 weight "spey"rod for even the smallest of steelhead. It is a very delicate 2-hander that is suited to trout fishing where the fish do not exceed 2 or 3 pounds in size, with the average fish running in the 12 to 15 inch size. Also, this rod does not have the backbone to cast more than 50 or at most 60 feet and then only with small flies (smaller than #10's), anything bigger and it just does not have the ability to cast the extra fly weight or wind resistance more than 45 or so feet it the wind is not blowing.

This rod certainly does not have the backbone to fight steelhead or cast steelhead flies unless you intent to worry a fish to death and only cast 40 feet or less with normal summer steelhead flies. It really is a light-line 2-hand trout rod. The rod is also rather slow and very soft actioned, not surprising given it is a 5 weight of 12 foot in length.

Do yourself a favor and get a T&T 1307 instead for a light lline steelhead 2-hander. Light, responsive, enough backbone to land steelhead up to 8 or so pounds, able to turn over steelhead flies, and it can cast them out to 80 or more feet with shooting line on the cast.

02-24-2003, 05:27 AM

You are not 2000 miles away from the rod. You were in fact holding it in your mitts. Southfield show is 2 weeks away and about 200 miles from Chicago.

Looks like the above review confirmed some writings on this, good trout rod not so good for Steel. Pretty sure more to come.

As for the Fiat 124 being new technology please. It was a cheap car, you get what you pay for pure and simple. They were never too well liked by R&T or any serious car mag. I bought an Alfa around the time you had your Fiat not too many people raved about them.


02-24-2003, 06:43 AM
Maybe , just maybe, guys who like wimpy cars also like wimpy rods!!!!!:hehe:

Or , maybe his "chrome" run on the small side...:devil:


02-24-2003, 10:50 PM

So, you are telling me that the 'little' 5 wt Sage is barely enough for trout???????????

Hal- Don't believe it. This is the same song and dance I heard about the Scott 11'9" #6. When you are accustomed to throwing lines that weigh 1300+ grains, anything in the 350 to 400 range is going to feel like a feather.

A couple of summers ago I took a Rainshadow 10' 5wt IM6 trout blank and made it into an 11'8" 5wt spey rod of sorts. Absolutely GUARANTEE that this rod was wimpier, way wimpier, than the new Sage 5wt. Using a modified midspey it was pretty easy to knock out casts to nearly 100' with the 'stunt rod'. Fish catching power? Landed several steelhead on it from 5#'s to 12#'s just as quickly as if it were a 16' T&T. ;) Tighten the drag (or aggressively palm the rim) and shorten the angle to fight the fish off of the reel using the butt. Just like bamboo......

To each their own,


02-25-2003, 12:06 AM

I did not say the Sage 5 weight was barely adequate for trout. I said it was a trout rod that was far to light to effectively handle steelhead or cast steelhead flies a decent distance. The Sage is not a Scott 11 1/2 ft 6 weight in either action nor power. It is far lighter and gentler a rod than the Scott 11 1/2 footer.

Yes, I know you can land steelhead on a light rod like the Sage 5 weight spey. Heck, I've landed chinook of 35 pounds on a G.Loomis 10 ft 6 weight when fishing for cutthroat in the lower river. Does that make the 6 weight a good rod choice for chinook of 15 to 35 pounds just because I caught and landed them on it? Of course not! Anymore than the Sage 5 weight spey is a steelhead rod.

Yes, you can land a fish of most any size by pointing the rod at the fish and playng the fish off the reel. In effect, using the reel seat as the rod to fight the fish. However, this is not an altogether enjoyable thing. And it is far too easy to do serious damage to the rod, reel seat, or reel by doing so. Leave the 5 weight speys to the trout they were designed to fish.

02-25-2003, 04:49 AM

Obviously we have differing view points here. As much as you tout the praises of the big T&T, I cringe inside every time I read it. You love the rod, I think - Woodcock with an elephant gun.

5 wt Sage spey. You feel it's a trout rod, I think- Nice challenge to catch steelhead with. Everyday spey rod for steelhead- probably not, but under the right conditions it would be a blast.

There are a million ways to skin a cat. How I find enjoyment, or challenge, is going to be different than the other 999,999 viewpoints. Therefore your opinions are no more the final word on any subject than mine.

Like I said before- To each their own.


02-25-2003, 06:51 AM
As a local resident "old fart", I've got to add just a couple of cents worth. First off, anyone who tries to pass off "his" opinion to other fishermen is doing a disservice to the guy. Just remember - We all have our favorite actions, the rivers we fish, our fishing methods, style of fighting fish, etc. Hal is the only person who can answer if it is the right rod for him and his likes/dislikes.

I understand both of your viewpoints. They are probably OK for you and your methods, etc.

Would I like it? Don't know - I would have to try it for at least one trip to answer. But I'm not interested because I haven't been "tempted" by seeing it and handling it, and I have enough rods - at least for the time being.

I will offer one "opinion", though. Good C&R dictates playing the fish QUICKLY so it will live when released. A long, wispy 5-wt. is not the ideal rod for that objective, especially if fishing alone, and trying to land a thrashing steelie. (This is where most rods get broken, regardless of wt. rating!) And remember - there is always the chance of hooking a big chinook here in the G.L. tribs.

Think about it logically, guys. Some of us who correspond with Hal on a regular basis may "jerk his chain", and kid him, but just remember - HE is the guy who has to make the choice (and put up with an irate spouse, as well, when she finds out!) That's a daunting challenge!:hehe:


02-25-2003, 11:15 PM

I also love my 13 ft GLX for summer runs and sing its praises as well. And I am going to get a 1509 T&T be summer for use on the Sky and Hoh summer runs because it will allow me to fish an 8/9 GrandSpey will ease. And I lust after a 1307 T&T as well for the smaller headwater areas and small river summer runs.

In short, I'm not stuck on one rod for all my fishing. I match the rod to the water, size of fly, wind resistance of fly, and the size of the river. And I am thinking is terms of using the rod in the manner for which it was designed, not as a tool to use to challenge myself and my fish fighting ability with a light rod.

If I really want to challenge myself, I'll take my 9 ft 4 weight out to the summer steelhead stream and fish with it. But my point is that somewhere along the way we fly fishermen forgot that rods are designed for specific purposes and that they perform best when used for the things they were designed for.

04-17-2003, 06:43 PM
and have new members vote.

Bobk can then apply his statistician brain cells again.

PM Out

04-17-2003, 07:04 PM
Perhaps a steelhead dream boy quote is in order...

04-17-2003, 07:12 PM
Good idea, if I can find the time I will do it just for you.

Maybe next winter, there could be a new book Dreams II, etc....

Did you check out the new technique now available for our summer runs?


PM Out

04-17-2003, 07:25 PM
I'm sure you could learn a lot from steelhead dream boy.

Fishing summer runs is no big deal. Be ready to keep every stream caught GL summer run you land. Perhaps he could guide you into dog food heaven.

04-17-2003, 08:05 PM
Hey, Hal,

FYI, I'm a scientist, NOT a statistician. BUT... I always had a GOOD statistician working for me. It's amazing to see how "experimental design" can get all error and opinion out of the equation.

Hate to get everyone all upset, but yes, I can massage the data and run statistics on it; how valid is it? If I could get my old statistician, Sho Chi Wang to bless it, I'd bet my LIFE on it. But just raw data is.... well.... just raw data. Massaged, maybe, but still just raw data.:rolleyes:


04-17-2003, 08:19 PM
Now that I have the disclaimers out of the way, based on averages, as of right now, we have 2391 YEARS of fly fishing experience collectively in the respondents.


Darren Evans
04-17-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by BobK
Now that I have the disclaimers out of the way, based on averages, as of right now, we have 2391 YEARS of fly fishing experience collectively in the respondents.


Can I borrow about 5 years of that so I can skip all my casting practice? ;)

Pat Bahan
04-17-2003, 08:49 PM
Hell, I contributed over 40 years to it, and I think I need more practice than ever:( :eyecrazy: :D
Hay, I think I'll just spend tomorrow practicing.:hehe: :hehe:

04-29-2003, 04:44 PM
The question of how many years I have been flyfishing brought back a fond memory of an old man who camped near the headwaters of the San Joaquin River, near Devils Postpile National Monument in California. Mr Roach as I was brought up to address him was a man with silver hair and had a bit of a lean in his stature but I remember it was all I could do to keep up with him when he took me out to his favorite spot on the river. He was a kind and patient man who worked with me until I could cast a fly into just the right spot. It was like he planted a fish ther just so I could catch it. Such excitement for a 10 year old boy who had just received a new Sears automatic fly reel in the mail. The reel was attached to an old collapsable metal rod that I don't think was really suposed to be a fly rod, but it worked.
Every time I returned to that spot I was guarenteed to catch a fish if I placed the fly just in right place; the place where I was sure Mr. Roach had stocked.
Years passed and one season Mr. Roach no longer came to the area. It was the following year I that was my last time fishing at that site. After that, for some reason, I drifted away from flyfishing and it took my sons to bring me back. So you might say they are my mentors too. :chuckle:


05-05-2003, 03:04 PM
Well, let me examine this question as asked!!! I have been Fly Fishing most of my life,,,,,,,approx 45 years to be exact,,,,,within a few days,,,,,,of course!!!! So,,,,,, I figured I started when I was nearly 8. Now iffin ya wants to actually know my experience wif a FLYROD in hand,,,,,,,WELLLL,,,,,,,I seriously doubt seriously many of us could add that many numbers together!!!!!:eyecrazy: :eyecrazy:

Times have changed and the gear is much more "CASTER FRIENDLY"!!!! I learned on a "F" series Bamboo 6 wt and now I have most everything Scott makes or has made in the last 10 years!!!! Especially that F-602/2 Glass rod fr the Panfish around here and for a fantastic "Pocket Water Trout Rod"

The reels have changed dramatically also and the drag systems are absolutely fantasmagorical. I used to fish strictly Ross(MY favorite is the Ross San Miguels), but have changed and am now using TETON!!!!

I fish mostly Warmwaters and lots of Gulf waters!!!! Trout are way to far to hunt and I can't get away long enough to really experience different "TROUT" type waters!!!

My largest Bass on fly gear is 12#'s 8oz and I have several Water body records. But HEY,,,,,who cares about that????????:smokin: And I did once "HAUL IN" a 50+# King Salmon in Alaska on a Browing "Midas" 7wt in 1984!!!!

Some day I'll actually learn somethin about Fly Castin,,,,,,,Haven't got it down just yet!!!!!! :rolleyes: But I still try!!!!

DAN :p

Pat Bahan
05-06-2003, 08:47 PM
Yup, I definantly need more practice;)
I better take tomorrow off and go uh, I mean practice:o

05-07-2003, 06:39 AM
Unless you have suffered through and can talk intelligently about rods using lines like HCH (or other LETTER) designations (and they absorbed water as well as sponges), and when all you could get was SILK lines (which utilized linseed oil in the processing), and GUT (silk) leaders that had to be soaked before using, and SNELLED flies, and "dry fly floatant" which consisted of paraffin dissolved in kerosene, you are a "newby" to the sport.:hehe: :devil:

BobK (- at least 60 years' experience!)

05-07-2003, 08:00 AM

I'd go to war with you any day.

What you have seen in the past 6 decades of fly fishing is totally amazing. I stand in awe.

05-07-2003, 08:40 AM
Unless you have suffered through and can talk intelligently about rods using lines like HCH (or other LETTER) designations (and they absorbed water as well as sponges), and when all you could get was SILK lines (which utilized linseed oil in the processing), and GUT (silk) leaders that had to be soaked before using, and SNELLED flies, and "dry fly floatant" which consisted of paraffin dissolved in kerosene, you are a "newby" to the sport.

So, you are saying in essence that your 15 years of experience over what I am and have done in the past 45 years makes you a more intelligent, thoughtful and aristrocratical Fly Fisherman????? Simply because you, suffered through a few more years of the AGE OF FLY FISHING ANTIQUITY of SIMPLICITY?????? Maybe so!!!! Maybe Not!!!!

Naw,,,,,,DUDE,,,,,,,I don't live in the PAST. Ideas, techniques and gear were different in those times, granted. But like most AGED rambles, I have continued to progress with other tikes of FLY Fishing.

I am happy for ya BOB,,,,,,I really am,,,,,,,but I have been in this FLY FISHING GAME for awhile myself and for the record,,,,,,,,I AIN'T A NEWBIE,,,,,,,,BEGINNER,,,,,,,TOPWATER,,,,,,,,,or BARNEY!!!!! If ya don't believe me,,,,then,,,,,,well,,,,,Just ASK ME,,,,,,,I'lll probably tell ya!!!!!l

Hey,,,, I always did look up to my elders!!!!!:eyecrazy: :chuckle: I am sure we both could learn from each other!!!!


05-07-2003, 09:53 AM
Hey, Bwana -

Don't take it personally. I'm just mentioning some of the things we had to put up with in the past - AND there was a war on, everything was rationed, and trying to find a (bamboo) rod or (silk) line or leader was almost impossible, as the Japanese were occupying China. Boots - yeah, we patched 'em and kept 'em going because rubber was rationed. Everything was used until it wore out, beyond repair and was totally useless.

No, I'm not a snob - far from it. It's just that there is always someone with more experience - no matter how long you've been at it. And I learn a lot from everyone I fish with or meet - even if they are a lot younger than me! You can take that to the bank!


05-07-2003, 11:31 AM
Mr BobK,

Naw, you got it wrong

Not to worry, I don't take anything seriously on these boards anyways!!!! Some info is good to see on sites like this,,,,,,but the proof is in the PUDDIN' so to speak!!!!

I have done enough teaching of the art of Fly Fishing to make most folks "RUN and HIDE"!!!!! One thing I have learned above ALL ELSE,,,,,,,IS THAT,,,,,,,,, EACH FLY FISHERMAN IS DIFFERENT!!!!!,,,,,,Most don't cast alike,,,,,,,,some have more interest in differing aspects of the sport,,,,,,,Some learn quicker than others,,,,,,Some like Saltwater, while others are TROUT oriented,,,,,,,,Some like Bass fishing and others like Billfishing!!!!!:eyecrazy:

The one constant is WE ARE ALL FLY FISHERMEN and enjoy foolin a fish with a FLY!!! SIMPLE AIN'T IT??????:whoa: :whoa:


A person may be new to Fly Fishing, but their enthuisiasm is none the less a factor than us "old Farts"!!!! Helll,,,,,,,, I'lll still get stupid and act like a kid when on the "PERCH Beds" just as easily as fishing a RED when "TAILING", a Bass when "SCHOOLING" or a Bonefish while "Crabbin",,,,,,,,,,It just don't matter what age a person is, when they FLY FISH,,,,,,,it only matters that the person loves FLY FISHING!!!!!

AGAIN,,,,,SIMPLE AIN'T IT????:smokin: :cool:


05-08-2003, 10:33 PM
Bob K.

I remember using parafin dissolved in carbon tetrachloride for a fly floatant. Dad and his friends decided that kerosene was too flammable a substance and settled on carbon tetacholoride instead after myself and some of the other kids got into collecting butterflies around age 10 or so. Interesting thing is that carbon tet is a rather lethal substance with lethal vapors as well.

I also remember heating up parafin or beeswax in a double boiler so that it would liquify to be able to wax a whole spool of tying thread at one time (this wouldn't work anymore because the plastic spools thread is on now would melt). Then later I would have to wipe the excess wax off the spool of thread to be able to use it.

You also forgot about the wonderful chore of replacing rod tips every other year or so because they had grooved and cutting off and replacing snake guides for the same reason since shrome plated guides were not the norm.

05-09-2003, 06:14 AM
We used kerosene - exactly for the reason you mention. In a pinch, you could use it as "fire starter" in case you got into "deep yogurt".

I didn't mention replacing the guides because we used to strip down the bamboo, and replace the guides usually every year because spar varnish didn't hold up that well, and we used to "invert" the orientation of the guides to get the "set" (or sag" out of the rods and keep 'em straight.

I also remember taking the silk lines out of the water after 4 or 5 hours, stringing it between a couple of trees to dry out, then redressing the line so it would float (for a while).

It wasn't fun, but if you wanted to flyfish, that was the price. That was also in the days before spinning rods. After they were introduced here by returning GIs, the fishing pressure really increased.


05-09-2003, 07:16 AM
And just how did you 2 'ol FARTS get through those younger years using all those chemical agents and workin yer Butt off summarily gettin gear ready instead of fishin???? HHHHHMMMMMM?????:hehe: :hehe:

Ya know,,,,,,,,now that I think about those "DARK YEARS" of Fly Fishin', I am reminded of the many interesting and obsessive times my Grandad "PAPPY" and I spent together and having some pretty interesting conversations while "FIDDLIN" wif GEAR!!!!!!

I can remember "Mammy" gettin onto both of us because we kept "RAIDIN" her "SEWIN' KIT" and takin her best threads, no matter how long it had taken her to "WIND" them or for that matter what they were made of, like silk or cotton!!!!! Wooden spools and ALL!!!!! I still have many of those spools in and 'ol cigar box!!!!

I even have an 'ol "WOODEN SPOOL" for fishin line!!!!!

My Grandad had welded a vise out of some auto parts and used a "NOTCHED and GROUND" set of pliers !!!! Hackle pliers were just old "CLOTHESPINS" "WHITTLED" down to a point enough to hold the hackles!!!!

Ya couldn't go out and buy parts,,,,,,,Most of the time ya just had to make 'em!!!! Different times and different life!!!!! Simplisity and more handy work were required!!!


05-09-2003, 10:52 AM
Wow, you fellows are talking about fly fishing things BEFORE my 43 years of flyfishing started. I did not start tying flies though until 22 years ago. Before that, I had no time for fly tying with military, university, business, and of course the pursuit of female gender responsibilities.

I feel better now even though I am still somewhat sick from a flu virus this week !


Pm Out

05-09-2003, 01:29 PM
Out of these 2 examples who would have the most fly fishing experience?

Person A, been fly fishing 40 years 5-10 days per year or, Person B fly fishing 5 years 200 tp 250 days per year.

IMHO it boils down to time spent in the water not dreaming about it, of course I could be wrong. Something tells me different.

05-09-2003, 02:26 PM
You've got THAT right! Most of my years were spent on the trout streams of NY. Yeah, classic water - where the dry fly was "born" in the US. Do I consider myself a "sage" even on those waters? Nope!

When I started chasing Montana trout and Great Lakes steelies, my past experience helped me make the transition - but it was a new and different experience. A few trips to salt water taught me more differences, as well. But do I consider myself an expert? Nope! Do I learn "New Stuff" from everyone I fish with? Yup! (And that is true regardless of their age and "experience".)

But I DO have fun, and laugh at myself at some of the dumb things I am known to do. And I usually catch fish, have a ball, visit with other fishers, and come home tired and happy. And I will ask questions of others if I am unsure of something. What more can you ask out of fishing?

Yeah, I am known to use "ancient" techniques, like "dapping" when I have to, and "bow and arrow" cast in really tight quarters, and it does help to know those old techniques that have gone out of fashion, but those are tricks I learned from old timers, not a sign of knowledge.

Yeah, it's fun to laugh about the old gear we had to use, despite its shortcomings, when I was a kid. Just goes to show how good we have it today. And I can't imagine the advances in the next 60 years - it will probably be just as dramatic!


05-09-2003, 03:19 PM
I used to do shows and I would tsake old gear out with me and let the "HANDS of TODAY" try and cast wif that 'ol gear!!!!! LOLOLOL Make a grown man cry,,,,,LAUGHIN SO HARD at 'em!!!!!

Today's stuff is "VERY CASTER FRIENDLY" and leaves alot to be desired as far as casting ability and techniques go!!!!! That old gear would "SLAP YA, TIE YA IN KNOTS, and MAKE YA MAD AS HELL SOMETIMES", iffin ya had a problem wif
LOADIN" a rod quietly!!!!! HAHAHAHA:hehe: :hehe:

Heck,,,,even the Fly Tyin' equipment is so much further ahead of the Housecats, dogs, squirrels, Parrots, Parakeets and anything else with hair or feathers that happened to get toooo close to us!!!! I always carried a pair of sissors and a "BROWN PAPER BAG" ,,,,,,JUST IN CASE!!!!!!:eyecrazy: :eyecrazy: lololol Man have things changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


05-09-2003, 04:03 PM

MJYP is suggesting we need a days per year, or perhaps life time esperience to date measurement to accurately compute fly fishing experience in lieu of years.

What are your thoughts on this ?

Perhaps we should break it down into fish species, fresh/salt, lakes, rivers, spey/single hander, dry/wet/streamer, region of the world etc...........

I hope you have a good calculator and a lot of free time to support the numerical analysis this will require, plus we need a new poll format.

How would one compute a fly fishing guides experience level that guides 200+ days a year ?

Heck most of us are I suspect are under 20-30 days a year on water fishing experience. But if you combine fly fishing reading and tying days it is much larger. Matter of fact I bet that just about all of us spend more time reading about fly fishing and tying flies then we do actually fly fishing.

Hows that for a profound statement !

Maybe next winter something to consider, right now its golf, fly fishing/tying, football camps, college age student issues, and all types of other family stuff for me. Oh yes and a lot of business issues.

Got to go off to a track meet, later.

PM Out

Bob Pauli
05-09-2003, 05:21 PM

Fishing Stories in Progress

Protective Boots May Be Required

05-09-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher

MJYP is suggesting we need a days per year, or perhaps life time esperience to date measurement to accurately compute fly fishing experience in lieu of years.

PM Out

No you missed the nail, what I said is that years and on the water time are not the same. I am not suggesting a new poll.

Reading about fishing and fly tying is not fishing, book smarts does not make one a fisherman, neither does full fly boxes. Its water time baby pure and simple.

In my best years (pre kids) I managed 100+ days per year. That was just weekend, wacation and sick time fishing.

H2O time is prime time.

05-09-2003, 09:02 PM
Yeah, it IS time on the water that's important.

And you're also right that stage of life has a lot to do with it, too. Teens and after military, going to college , and when first married, I spent a LOT of time on the water and in the woods.

Then came the kids. So much for unrestricted time on the water - and a "corporate" lifestyle also cut into it, as well.

Now I'm retired, and do a lot of fishing - almost just like the "old" days. But I have a couple of daughters who like Dad to babysit (a lot!), and that limits me to an extent. (Of course, I have been known to go AWOL when it gets to be too much!).

But time on the water is always the best teacher. Every time out, I seem to notice another item of importance that I hadn't noticed before, and learn something new of importance. Reading and tying flies don't give the same kinds of lessons. Hell, even the Oriental gals that tie exquisite flies for a living (but have never seen a trout stream) will be the first to admit that they know NOTHING about fly rods, let alone fly fishing.

And for a book to cover every little nuance of a fishing experience wouldn't be possible - the books would be too big!

Time on the water - that's the key! But a will to experiment when fishing gets slow helps a lot, too!


05-09-2003, 09:53 PM
It begins to sound a bit like a personal problem. Maybe a little bit more time away from the beast would rekindle your angling spirits.;)

05-11-2003, 12:43 AM
Bob K and Mjyp,

You guys got it right, it is the amount of time spent on the water or the number of flies tied (not the amount of time at the vise) that counts.

I got the fly fishing bug so badly as a younster that at age 10 (much to my mother's dislike), I would wald either 3 miles, 4 miles, or 7 miles to go fishing (the distance depended on which stream I wanted to fish that day) and not get home until well after dark. Did this nearly daily during June, July, and August. I would wet-wade the streams since boots were not practical to carry that far on foot along with rod, reel, flies, etc.

When in college at Penn State (1971-1975), I would skip class quite often and ride my 10-speed bike to Fisherman's Paradise to fish in the spring (during the fall I was in the marching band and did not have time to fish). After graduating from college, I spent nearly every weekend near Hancock, NY on the West Branch of the Delaware River during May, June, and July. And when Pennsylvania extended fishing on to the 30th of November in 1976, I would fish until then.

After moving to Montana in 1979, there was a period of 3 years where I tied flies for a living and since I lived in Cascade, MT, I fished the Missouri River nearly daily until late December when it would get to cold (temps would be consistently in the teens and 20's most years by late December). Then I would start fishing again in mid-February when the weather warmed up into to 40's and the ice left the river.

Regarding tying flies, one can spent a lot of time tying a dozen flies to fish with, or one can spend enough time tying a given pattern that one can tie in excess of a dozen of the fly in an hour. There is a world of difference between both of these. that is why I said it is the number of flies a person has tied that matters, not the number of days spent tying flies.

I too remember those mid-day breaks to dry the fly line.