best gadgets to stock a vest with [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: best gadgets to stock a vest with


newbiefish
04-15-2002, 02:02 AM
Hi,

Can anyone recommend all the various essential gadgets a well stocked vest should have?

Hawkeye
04-15-2002, 09:41 AM
Keep it simple and your vest light - very important for comfort on those long days astream.

nippers - cheap kind (.99) you'll lose 'em and the cheap ones don't hurt as much when that happens.
Fly boxes
a variety of tippet sizes
floatant
simple first aid kit
polarized glasses (very important)
strike indicators (somewhat controversial to the purist but I use them and wont give them up in the forseeable future)
spare spool if the water you are fishing might require a change of line.
a spare leader
I almost never use one but you might want a net. I think a gentle wet hand is best for quick and healthy releases.

striblue
04-15-2002, 01:52 PM
This as you know is one of my pet peves... Just make sure you know where you put your car keys... also ,practice remembering where you put all your stuff...this can be done at home...like the military... blindfold your self and have someone time you as you place ,then remove the items...then put them back in the appropriate pocket..like taking a weapon apart... with practice you will become proficient.... Night practice is also important..practice without a light...learn by feel....when you are ready ..put yourself to the ultimate test... place your car keys in one of the many pockets...wait a week... then drive into a dangerious portion of an inner city near you..late at night... Leave the jacket on the front seat.... walk up to a group of individuals... stay about 50 to 100 yard away from them and then shout some obcenities appropriate to the ethnic group you encounter.... as they begin to chase you , make for your car .Once in you will need to find those keys... you will only have one chance to do this test... so there is no ,"I will do better next time"... this is why the test is the best for mastering the use of vests..... Good luck.;)

Sprocket
04-15-2002, 03:01 PM
I do not wear a vest for a couple reasons:

all the stuff in the trash pocket from last year
keys - see Mr. Morin's reply
the smell - see trash pocket
one less thing to carry


these are just my own excuses.

What I switched to last year & really like it is this:
a lanyard around my neck - like those key chain things - on it are my nippers and floatant. I threaded my tippet spools onto the lanyard and viola! a cheap, efficient, light "vest".

My fly boxes are (2) 3"x4" tin boxes, I carry splitshot & spare leader onmto the water - everything else stays in the car (spare flys, etc.)

good luck

old man
04-16-2002, 12:48 PM
If my vest does't have all it needs then I feel that I don't have enough. I carry 5 fly boxes(Iknow that is too many). But I can cover any thing I come across. Nippers,forceps,tippet spools,floatant,extra leader,dry-fly crystals,leader straightner. I don't carry a flash light because I don't ever get lost. As for glasses I already wear them.

Jim:D

John Desjardins
04-16-2002, 01:02 PM
To the suggestions above I'd add

1. Bug repellent
2. Sun screen
3. Small swiss army knife for the day you lose the nippers.
4 Toilet paper in a zip lock bag. Remember to get away from the water and bury it if you use it.

A spare set of keys to the car is helpfull to have tied or sewn into the vest.

Sprocket
04-16-2002, 02:36 PM
defenitely TP in a bag...just trust me on this one.

pmflyfisher
04-16-2002, 05:24 PM
On the car keys I carry one and then hide one usually under one of the fenders or other under carriage areas of the vehicle.

Never want to get stranded out in the National Forest back roads due to lost keys and have to call my wife for help.

Thanks for reminding me about the toilet paper also.

Have not used a net in over 15 years at least.

Found a great light weight mini lite at the airport last month which looks like it will work great for $ 20 .

A compass may be needed if you cut through national forests much where you fish, as it is easy to get turned around out there if you are not careful.

Nooksack Mac
04-16-2002, 05:28 PM
A vest is your "workspace," and like an office cubicle, becomes friendlier and more efficient with a little customizing. If you're able to thread a needle and sew a button, you can do things like this:
Dye it a drab color (cotton only)
Add extra Velcro patches to make pockets escape-proof (vital for your car key pocket)
Add D-rings inside the big pockets (anchor points for tether lines from your irreplaceable fly boxes)
Replace cheap metal zipper with nylon zipper or Velcro flap
Improve the fly-losing sheepskin patch the vest came with: A sheepskin or carpet patch folded in two, open end up inside a small pocket: just drop your flies inside.
Coated nylon liner inside bottom pockets; not entirely waterproof, but better than nothing.
A few years ago, I paid a local tailer to repair warn-through parts of my old Dan Bailey trout vest. That got me a few more years with it, for an even 30 years. When I had to replace it at last, I shopped around, found a Chinese-made copy of an Orvis vest for 20% of the price. I carefully worked over the new one, cutting away many loose threads, flame-singing raw nylon seams, and making some of the above improvements. It felt like an old friend from the first use.
I have a trout vest and a salmon-steelhead vest, so that I don't have to switch items constantly. I'd add a saltwater vest if I did that.

pmflyfisher
04-16-2002, 07:17 PM
Nooksak Mac

That sounds like the home made steelhead vest I bought on a steelhead stream in Michigan in 1980, which I still use, although a couple of zippers need some work. An old timer was selling them for $ 25 or $ 30 one of the best darn investment I ever made

Will have to get it fixed after next week's spring steelhead hunt.

sean
04-16-2002, 07:26 PM
You guys are forgetting the most important thing....

A flask full of whiskey or scotch and a good cigar should be in the vest at all times.

-seran

juro
04-16-2002, 07:42 PM
After you absorb all the great advice that this thread provides, you'll have a good basis for what to stuff into all those pockets.

Each time you go out, you will discover something else you should add to your "field kit", each time you re-organize it you will discover something you should leave at home. Over the years the protocol will become self-evident, for me that process is a big part of the fun of fishin'

That being said, let's take a new angle to this thread and go for the TOP TEN ITEMS you would have in your vest, assuming the other 100 will be things you decide over time...

(front pockets only)
1) flybox
2) leader/tippet
3) snipper
4) hook hone
5) ferrule wax
6) floatant
7) bug juice
8) pocket knife
9) compass
10) waterproof matches

Then small first aid collection, energy bar and water, radio or phone, packable raincoat in back compartment, etc.

These vary with the type of fishing done, some need no floatant, others sunblock instead of bugspray, etc.

FlyFishAR
04-16-2002, 08:36 PM
One of my buddies in Wyoming says that he dosn't take TP to the river with him. He uses his gravel guards, then puts them back on and wades in the fast water. Of course this is the same guy that had his net hanging off the clip on the back of his vest. After a quick visit to the woods, he carried an unusual odor behind him. I think that was the only official "Brown Trout" he caught all day. :eek:

John

John Desjardins
04-16-2002, 10:05 PM
following Juro's lead i tried to get a top ten but only came up with 9.

1. flyboxes
2. spare leader
3. Tippet stock
4. Wenger Swiss army knife, it does everything a pair of nippers does and then some.
5. Hemostats or needle nose pliers depending on species.
6. hook sharpener
7. bug juice
8. TP
9. water proof matches

The first five are the bare minimum I need. Nooksack Mac you have some good ideas listed. I particularly the sheepskip ofr carpet in the pocket. If you fish barbless flies just disappear off the exposed patches.

juro
04-16-2002, 10:22 PM
John - Now that's an angler I'd rather follow than lead :hehe:

I humbly replace #5 ferrule wax with TP; and leave the wax in the vehicle where it is less prone to melt. A tight film can is a pretty good container to prevent inadvertently making a Barbour out of half of your vest on a hot day.

In the fly box I poke a doll needle to simplify the tying of nail knots in the rare event that the leader pulls off the line.

pmflyfisher
04-16-2002, 11:08 PM
Sean

Your right always have a pack of cigarettes or couple of cigars, and I only bring a flask of sherry or courvosier for those real cold winter steelheading trips. Another thing I do is make sure I have multiple backups of critical items as follows:

Leader material - crictical sizes at least two of each
Reel,spools, lines - at least one back up of each needed for that day
Gloves - two fingerless pairs in case one gets real wet and it is very cold out.
Matches
Clippers and knife
Flashlights - 2 small ones

Must build redundancy in to avoid not being able to fish effectively while way out there away from everything. It has happened a couple of times when the fishing was good and had to stop and leave for sport shop or car for replacements.

Of course dozens of each most probable critical fly for that species of fish is a given. After reading all of this I think we are a paranoid bunch and should just have fun.

Now I know why my vest is to heavy most of the time and I am so tired at the end of the day trekking around those hills along the river.

If the waders leak I am just going to play through it as long as I can. Need a back up pair of waders my older ones are shot.

FlyFishAR
04-17-2002, 01:48 AM
Sean:

I carry 3 or 4 plastic zip lock bags in my vest/jacket/pack all the time. For some reason I always seem to have at least one electronic device on me (Digital camera, cell phone, ect). The bags do a good job of water proofing expensive items. Then one slip into the river won't ruin an otherwise perfect trip.

The doll and/or carpet needle that Juro recommended for knots is a great tip. A loop bent in the end with fly line run through it and you can attach it to your hemos or a zipper and keep it handy.

Some guys like to travel light. I like to take every single thing I might need to the river. Even if I have to leave it on the bank. I hate to hike back to the truck because I forgot something I needed.

John

newbiefish
04-21-2002, 07:00 AM
No one mentioned:

split shot

or some other kind of weight when nymphing. If you carry strike indicators aren't you going to carry something to get your line down too. Also what about leader sink?

So far, I have purchased:

nippers($2 kind--couldn't find them for .99)

black hemostats(thought about getting the Dr. Slick curved hemos with a catch 'em release device on the back, but they were twice as much and awfully shiny.)

3x4x5x tippet material

6 tapered leaders

CF needle knot device(I tried tying a new leader to my line with a needle knot using a sewing needle and used up about a foot of my line and a foot of the leader--never again!)

polarized sunglasses

Half finger gloves with mittens that fold over(my hands froze the other day practicing)

Things on my list:

floatant (both dry and the liquid stuff you put on initially)

strike indicators

split shot

fly boxes

blood knot tool(I can't ever seem to get that last tag through the loop)

flys

juro
04-21-2002, 08:51 AM
Newbiefish -

To some it's debatable whether split shots and indicators are really a fly fishing method or not. The principles of the approach are based on drift gear / float fishing, even if the rod and reel happen to be fly gear. It's a deadly approach, no doubt. A good compromise that works great is to use a dry / nymph combination whereby both are flies and both are operative parts of the presentation. No split shot are used, and the fish will hit either.

I was shown how to do this by Bob Desplaines. He uses a uni-knot with a flouro dropper tied to the bend of the dry fly. I bend back all barbs but the bump was enough to act as a keeper.

My favorite nymph is a beadhead biot stone for this work. I like a variety of dries on top - the humpy, a hopper, etc. It's surprising how aggresively they will whack that top fly but most take the nymph.

No split shots and indicators in my vest! :smokin:

pmflyfisher
04-21-2002, 09:11 AM
Newbiefish,

Looks like you are doing regular stream trout fishing right ?

I'm like Juro some what in that I do not like Indicator floats thats not fly fishing me, growing up an eastern nymph fisherman. If some of the old timers I fished with saw that today, they would not talk to you on the stream considering, well a bait fisherman. At least that is how it was in the old days.

I do carry some light french split shop and lead wraps to sink the flies extra when needed. I fish mainly nymphs and wets on fast sinking tip lines. Or a floating line only.

If the rivers you are wading are very fast and rocky, make your self a wading staff out of an old ski pole. Just cut off the baskets at the bottom. Then spray paint it a dull natural color, camo, green, black, tan. I just resprayed my two poles this weekend and they are a cool camo color now.:smokin: :smokin:

I always put some energy bars and usually raisins in the rear of my vest. Since never keep fish and the ones I fish for a to big for my vest pocket I have lots of room for food, TP, extra gloves, reel, flashlight in the back.

Hal

FlyFishAR
04-21-2002, 10:09 AM
Juro:

Indicator fishing is an adapted technique from typical 3 fly european styles. Each fly has a specific purpose in the "cast" (what we call the set of flies and leader). The cast has an indicator fly, a weight fly, and a point fly. Typically the point fly is not weighted so that it drifts off the bottom, and is in the fishes feeding zone. Some would prefer not to use a dry fly as an indicator, but use the fly line instead. Often the fly line is marked for visibility in some method. Fair enough to say that in nymphing, these are the staples of effective fishing. In areas where only 1 fly is allowed, indicators and split shot are the only alternative to an effective cast. I have struggled with the "purity" of indicators over the years. I have finally come to the conclusion that it really depends on how you prefer to fish the "area" you're fishing.

FYI indicators are not allowed in competition. However, flourescent orange flies with hooks in them are. Split shot is not allowed either. However, weighted flies that are weighed and seperated to the gram are. What I struggle with now is what the difference really is.

The Federation of Fly Fishers defines fly fishing as:
Fly fishing: A technique for fishing where the weight of the line is used to cast a very light weight fly that would not be heavy enough to be cast with a conventional spinning or casting rod.
To analyze our technique much beyond that is self induced torture.

John W. Wilson

juro
04-21-2002, 12:36 PM
... or perhaps self-induced limits. For me personally, the approach befits the fishery, and from the right amount of challenge the pleasure is maximized. In addition, the more time spent working the challenge makes you better. In fact some have reached a level where what was once hard becomes plausible, even downright effective. Every shortcut you take takes away from that journey.

For instance, bonefishing with spin gear and a shrimp just sounds so damn cheap to me, and it did so even before I knew how to flyfish. For me, meaning no disrespect, using weights on the leader for steelhead converts the whole concept of swimming a fly in the currents into a drifting game, not for me. Watching a bobber instead of connecting with a trout directly to me is a shortcut.

I am not judging anyone but myself. I've tried a weighted nymph hanging from a dryfly for trouting a stream and it was amazingly effective. I am far from being a frequent trout fisherman so who am I to say, but I believe that given two anglers of equal skill, if one took the indicator / lead path (call him Tom) and the other took the path without those extra tricks (Dick), here is what would happen:

- initially, the Tom would kick butt and Dick would be frustrated, Sense of accomplishment? Advantage Tom.

- eventually, the Dick would start to realize comparable success while Tom still had constant action using tried and true methods.
Sense of accomplishment? About even, although Dick needed less fish to feel as good as Tom.

- ultimately, Dick would reach a level of craftiness and adaptability that befits his passion for the sport, Tom had peaked out with his technique. Dick still has a lifetime ahead in which to apply his inferences. Fish matter less, angling bliss more but the fish come anyway.
Sense of accomplishment?

I am exaggerating the point, I know. All in good fun. I guess it's really up to the individual as someone recently mentioned.

FFF definition:
Can't argue with the definitions, in fact it's a good definition with one caveat - it should include "for the target fishery". By this I mean castable with tackle suitable for the fishery. Of course I can cast any marlin fly with an ultralight trout rod. But I can't cast it with any rod suitable for marlin. I had this debate once before, maybe twice :D

Angling to me is about a lifetime of learning, and enjoying the fruits along the way.

old man
04-21-2002, 01:06 PM
I don't fish indicaters in rivers or streams. I go with the two fly method. But I seem to notice that all you talk about is fishing streams. Do any of you fish still waters. They work real well when you fish chronies. I know it sounds like bobber fishing and I thought so too. But most who fish lakes in Washington use them. Jim

FlyFishAR
04-21-2002, 02:20 PM
Old Man:

I have done quite a bit of lake fishing. When I fish lakes typically I use the tip of the fly line as an indicator, or I see / feel the take. Lake fish will often take Coronimids on the fall so I can see your point. Not to mention the mind numbing time it takes them to reach the thermocline/oxygen level.

Juro, I hope that nothing said here is ever taken out of context. You are obviously one of the better fly fishers in the world. You and I will definately have to spend some time on the water someday. ;)

John

newbiefish
04-21-2002, 06:14 PM
Hi,

From a beginners standpoint, I laughed when told about nymph fishing with weights and indicators--I didn't believe it was really fly fishing, and was disappointed to hear that apparently most flyfishing is nymphing because the reasoning is that if you want to catch fish a majority of the time the fish won't be rising.

My feeling is that I don't have to catch fish. In fact, I thoroughly enjoy my practice sessions with just a piece of yarn on the end of my leader. Maybe that will wear off and the sight of a tight loop arcing out over the water during a brilliant sunset won't be as appealing anymore. I guess I see myself starting out dry fly fishing, and if I don't catch fish, I don't really care. It also seems a bit ridiculous to me that people who flyfish need to "hide" the fact they are nymph fishing by using dry flys with floatant instead of a strike indicator and bead weighted flys instead of split shot. I don't have anything against nymphing, but the art of casting with dry flies is what appeals to me. I'm also reading about nymphing techniques, so I'm sure I'll try it eventually.

Nick
04-21-2002, 06:58 PM
Newbiefish,
I don't know anything about Freshwater fishing, even less about Trout fishing, but I have to comment on your love to just cast the rod.

I can't count the number of hours I used to spend practice casting in the front yard of my house growing up. A piece of yarn and a willing cat was all the "fish" I needed.

I have yet to lose the love of casting the long wand. There are fishless days and there are fishful days, but the catching isn't what drives me. As you describe, watching the sunrise or set in a beautiful area casting away is still what its all about for me. On the fishless days, striving to roll out the perfect 90 foot cast or placing the fly on the seaweed as it floats by increases my abilities for the times the fish are there. Don't get me wrong, I love catching, but the whole experience is what really makes me love this sport. For me, there's no better relaxation then fly fishing.

pmflyfisher
04-21-2002, 07:18 PM
Newbiefish,

I knew old timers forty years ago when I first started FF who were Dry Fly purists, and distained a youngster like me using bait with a fly rod or even wet flies at that time. There are not many of these fellows left these days.

Dry fly is fun but if you want to catch fish consistently, we need to get down into their 90% zone which is below the surface of the water.

As long as you enjoy what you are doing and do not stretch the traditional limits of fly fishing its okay. I will see a bunch of guys Indie fishing for steelhead tomorrow in Michigan, I bet I may be one of the only traditional sinking tip wet/nymph fisherman there.

As Roderick Haig Brown stated "This then is the sum of the challenge: rough and varied winter weather, the cold of the winter rivers, and great handsome silvery fish that have no practical use for anything a fisherman can offer them" Such will be my challenge starting tomorrow for winter steelhead.

Welcome to the Fly Fisherman madness.

Gotta go to bed now.

Hal

Nooksack Mac
04-22-2002, 06:39 AM
Newbiefish: While PMflyfisher sleeps, I'll try to take up the argument: Debates about what constitutes "authentic" fly fishing are as old as the sport. I can't solve it, but here's the source of the contention: In flyfishing, we're trying to do two different things simultaneously. The difference is the source of the ongoing tension between them.
People love games, for the logical progression and structure, the guaranteed competitive thrills, not to mention the tradition. Some games are perfect for what they offer, with no need for modification. Chess is played the same throughout the world, because a chess board with its pieces is the same wherever it is deployed.
Some games are modified to adapt to changing conditions. The 90-foot spacing between bases in baseball is perfect (even as players have gotten bigger and faster, over a century and a half). Perfect for adults, that is. It was logical for Little League to adopt a smaller diamond, to better fit the game for its intended participants; only a hidebound troglodyte would complain that such modifications ruin or corrupt the game.
As fly fishers, we go astream with a game model in our minds. But what we encounter there is a dynamic Nature that knows not nor cares about our desire to play a certain game. Unless we're hopelessly brain-locked, we modify the game so that we can meet Nature halfway. When fishing a springtime flood the color of Mocha latte, over trout that haven't looked up for the last eight months, what would be the point of fishing dry flies only? Respecting Nature means acknowledging what it's doing today. In fly fishing, a purist is a pure gameplayer. Today, Nature may be ready to play your game of choice; or she may not.

Hawkeye
04-22-2002, 01:32 PM
I've always had a difficult time understanding the negative feelings about indicators (bobbers) ;) . To me there is no meaningful difference between using a simple indicator and an indicator fly.

If I take a piece of yarn, apply floatant and attach it to my line as an indicator some would say I am not truly fly fishing. If I attached that same piece of yarn to a hook and used it the same way those same people would pat me on the back for giving up indicators and taking the challenge of flyfishing one step further. :confused: Working the same logic backwards if I fished a nymph off say a royal wulff, I'm flyfishing but if I tie that royal wulff tube style with no hook and attach it to the line then I'm breaking the "pure" flyfishing rule. again :confused:

I truly do appreciate the additional challenge of fishing a nymph without an indicator. Iíve become fairly proficient at it but even then I am paying attention to SOMETHING to ďindicateĒ a strike (the flash of the fish, or movement in my leader or line) So perhaps to fish in a truly indicatorless manner I need to close my eyes after I make my cast. (Ok that was a little sarcastic Ė sorry)

A couple final points: An indicator is used for two purposes. 1. To keep the nymph at the desired depth, and 2. To indicate strikes. As far as purpose 1 goes I can easily see, and in fact agree with, the belief that this is a short cut to avoid skill development. For purpose 2 I canít buy the idea that using an indicator corrupts the purity of the sport Ė it is merely a visual aid, it helps you see when you get a strike. If a fisherman has slightly impaired vision and has trouble seeing distances or detail do we think he is using a crutch when he dons his glasses to better see when he gets a strike? After all that is all an indicator used for purpose 2 does.

old man
04-22-2002, 06:15 PM
I go along with everyone on the uses of indicators. I bought some but I have yet to use them. Like you say you let your line act like one and I have also. But I think that Im getting lazy.
It just goes to show you that is one more thing that I now carry in my vest. It sure doesn't get any lighter. Jim

juro
04-22-2002, 06:25 PM
Hi Gregg -

There is no right or wrong to it, just opinions. Afterall this whole thread boils down to opinions on the rules we impose upon ourselves to play the game the way we see fit. And you know what they say about opinions... we all got one and they all stink! ;)

I think the important thing is to get satisfaction from the method you choose. That's where the fork in the road lies.

Putting on a pair of glasses doesn't change the mechanics of the tool, just the effectiveness of the person operating it. That's not a valid comparison IMHO.

Adding an indirect mechanical linkage to the very simple continuity of the fly line, leader and fly either sets well with a person or it doesn't.

There is no difference between an inert bobber and a dry fly and dropper - unless the top fly is catching fish too, in which case there is a huge difference but both are using an indirect mechanical linkage.

So maybe it's just a matter of whether the angler considers the weight and float approach good for him or her, totally subjective decision and a judgement meaningful only to the practitioner. Different strokes, they say.

I do honestly believe that, if were a real trout angler, the use of a float and weight system would limit my learning curve. For centuries, people became masters of the game without such tactics. I'd venture to say that people who adopt the technique hesitate from fishing without the setup. Maybe I'm wrong.

Just my .02

Hawkeye
04-23-2002, 11:54 AM
Hey Juro,

Iíll start with the disagreements and move into the agreements and thank-yous.

First of all I think many times opinions can be right or wrong (just my opinion ;) ) and flowing from that not all opinions smell. When someone you respect has an opinion I think it is well worth paying attention to and when that opinion is contrary to one you hold it is all the more worthy of analysis. What I was trying to convey in my earlier post was a sense of frustration born from a deep lack of understanding of the opinion of a number of flyfishermen whom I respect. Despite my thick skull I think I might be a bit closer to understanding the issue here. Are we talking style? Is it your opinion that using an indicator is an imperfect and growth limiting style? If that is the case I got it and I thank you for your patience. Heck Iíll even agree with you. I just thought I was detecting the idea that using an indicator was not really flyfishing and with that I canít agree, the logic is too flawed.

This whole discussion got me to closely examine how I use an indicator and I realized that I place them so far up my leader that with applying a modicum more concentration the difference between using one and not is nill. So, Iíll keep Ďem off my leader this year and see what I can learn.

To jump back to my earlier post Iíll agree with you that the glasses comparison is not valid. My point would be better made if the guy had an imperfect prescription or left his glasses in the car and used an indicator to compensate. I'll also agree with you about hesitating in not using indicators. I've fished many times without indicators but I have certainly hesitated each time I made that decision.

Tight lines,

The Converted

Adrian
04-23-2002, 01:08 PM
Amazing how something as basic as what you stuff in the pocket of your fishing vest can transition into the ageless debate on what constitutes fly fishing.

There are still streams in the UK where the rule is "upstream dry fly and nymph only". There are Salmon rivers where the "no weighted flies allowed" rule is written in bold capitals. That means no weight on the line or built into the fly pattern.

On the river Tweed in Scotland there is a maximum desity for sinking lines prescribed.

Some of these rules are based on tradition - others are to try to prevent "unsporting" methods of capture - snagging in the case of Salmon.

Peeling away the unsporting factors, we're left with opinions on style. All are valid even though we may disagree.

For me, a float (not an indicator - a real honest to gosh float) attached to a leader with a piece of lead substitute wire attached 8 inches above a nymph is stretching the term fly fishing - especially when the cast is anything but a cast and more like a lob into a deep hole under the tip of the rod.

At the other end of the scale, adding a visual indicator which doesn't add any mechanical advantage but helps my less than perfect 20/20 detect a movement 60 feet away doesn't stretch the definition nearly as much although a total purist might disagree.

Then comes adding weight to the leader. This will either present the fly deeper, or, if it attached close enough to the fly, impart a jigging action which is what the "fly" then technically becomes.

Talking of jigs and flies - where do we classify clousers and all the variants thereof? Someone once said you could fish a clouser minnow more effectively with a spinning rod.

Just my 02c to add mud to the debate ;)

juro
04-23-2002, 03:04 PM
Like I said before to me it's all about opinions and subjective self-evaluation. There is no point in trying to impose on others, but we should always feel free to present our opinions.

Anyway, I had no desire to influence but enjoy the chance to debate in a civil and cerebral manner, thanks.

Clousers, beadhead nymphs, virtually all bonefish flies, beadhead buggers, et. al. - are all in the same class, weighted flies. I will refrain from bobber comments here. :devil:

juro
04-23-2002, 05:40 PM
By the way to answer the question posed above - it wouldn't be at all style, not in the least. In fact, my position is quite the opposite, and here's why -

"style" is something that only has meaning in front of others, whereas a line drawn in the sand is meaningful only to oneself.

I think this debate proves that we all draw our own lines and that's all that matters.

FISH ON!

fredaevans
04-23-2002, 06:51 PM
Pull up the regulations for the fly only section of the North Umpqua. It woud be very easy to get a ticket just for scratch you nose at the wrong time.

To my knowledge these restrictions are unique to this section of river; nothing like it anywhere else. Fly only, barbless hooks, and such yes ..... but the North Ump's are something else. Given the fishing pressure on this river I can understand (to a degree) the "why" but you almost need to be a 'jail-house lawyer' to assure you don't step over a very thin line.
fe
"North Umpqua River fly area above Rock Creek upstream to Soda Springs Dam Restricted to use of single barbless unweighted artificial fly. For the purposes of this rule, an un-weighted artificial fly is defined as: "a conventional hook that is dressed with natural or artificial materials, and to which no molded weight (such as split shot, jig heads or dumbbell eyes), metal wire, metal beads, bead chain eyes, or plastic body are affixed, and to which no added weight, spinning or attractor device, or natural bait is attached"

To make it more fun fishing with an indicator is a 'no-no' as well as any type of slinking line/tip, etc. Dry lines only. (You can use a spinning rod/mono line and a casting bubble tho .... go figure?)

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/ODFWhtml/Regulations/2002_Southwest.pdf

loco_alto
04-24-2002, 03:58 AM
newbie,

IN addition to the littany of "vest" items previously mentioned, here are my 5 cents

1) buy some Q-tips with the plastic shaft, snip off the fuzzy ends, and use the resulting "tube" as a nail knot tool. Carry several in your vest. Even if you use braided loops, the nail knot tool comes in handy for securing frayed ends of the braided loop

2) a few bucks, hidden away somewhere

3) contact lenses, or other similar if needed

4) a pen to record catches

5) avoid carrying an attitude about what does and does not constitute proper flyfishing in your vest. You'll be weighted down with never ending arguments that ultimately decend to simple matters of personal preference. Simply make your choice. Do remain aware of the law, of courtesy deserved by others, and of the gift of your quarry


PS - the pic in my photo is of said N Umpqua...

juro
04-24-2002, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by loco_alto
newbie,

IN addition to the littany of "vest" items previously mentioned, here are my 5 cents
...

5) avoid carrying an attitude about what does and does not constitute proper flyfishing in your vest. You'll be weighted down with never ending arguments that ultimately decend to simple matters of personal preference. Simply make your choice. Do remain aware of the law, of courtesy deserved by others, and of the gift of your quarry

Well said.

old man
04-24-2002, 12:29 PM
As you are talking about the use of bobbers in fly fishing. I thought of what I saw on the N/Fork of the Stilly a few years ago. I was up at the Fortson Hole watching some guys fly fishing at least I thought they were. They were using Cheaters as a bobber and very small jigs as the fly. The cheater was a big one,at least 1"long. Thank god that they didn't catch anything.

Now I don't think of that as fly fishing, but I guess that they did.

Jim

Hawkeye
04-24-2002, 02:05 PM
My intended use of the word style has nothing to do with whether someone sees it or not.

Definition:1. The way in which something is said, done, expressed, or performed.

3. Individuality expressed in one's actions and tastes.

Semantics aside I still think I understand now. My personal line in the sand has been wiped out and I am now considering where the new one should go. It seems clear that indicator use is on a path leading away from flyfishing. Now all I have to do is decide for myself if it is far enough along that path to say it isn't flyfishing.

Very thought provoking. Thanks to all!

Excuse me now, I have to schedule some therapy appointments to find out why this topic got me so riled up.

Oh yeah, and I'm thinkin I need to take a good dose of Loco_Alto's #5. Thanks for the reality check.

striblue
04-24-2002, 02:30 PM
Gregg...don't worry.... just be thinking about our next allnighter... this time we will focus in the right spots .. I will bring strong expresso.

Hawkeye
04-24-2002, 02:55 PM
Excellent Striblue!,

We've got a new boat that can handle the weather we had that night. I am determined to do the rip at night and I'm thinkin you gotta let me make up for that increadibly frustrating night!