line hitting the rod [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: line hitting the rod


newbiefish
04-04-2002, 02:20 AM
Hi,

I've been practicing casting on grass with my 4pc 9' 6# St. Croix Imperial everyday since I bought it. After a few days, I wanted to see the limits of how far I could cast. I found I could cast upwards of 50 feet into a stiff breeze when I got a nice tight loop. However, when I turned to cast with the wind, I couldn't cast as far. I read you're supposed to shift your casting arc from 10-1 to 9-12 and concentrate on throwing the line upwards instead of backwards, but when I had a lot of line out, I couldn't get it to straighten out on my back cast. It worked for casts up to 25 feet, but not beyond that. What am I doing wrong?

Yesterday, I was finally able to get the timing down for a single haul on my back cast, and the line speed really helped in the wind. Today, I worked on single hauling on my forward cast, and when I got that down, I flailed around for awhile trying to put a double haul together. Eventually, I worked out the double haul timing and the line speed it generated punched the loop through the wind like nothing else. The biggest problem I had casting today was keeping the line from slamming into the rod or my body. I tried tilting the rod to my backhand side or extending it out the other way, but it invariably slammed into the rod or me. Any suggestions?

I also get lots of wind knots in my line. What casting fault causes those?

Finally, after about 30 minutes of casting the second joint of my rod comes apart mid cast no matter how hard I push the sections together. What can I do to make it stick?

juro
04-04-2002, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by newbiefish
Hi,

... Eventually, I worked out the double haul timing and the line speed it generated punched the loop through the wind like nothing else. The biggest problem I had casting today was keeping the line from slamming into the rod or my body. I tried tilting the rod to my backhand side or extending it out the other way, but it invariably slammed into the rod or me. Any suggestions?


Rule#1 - keep the wind OFF the casting shoulder, even if it means casting backwards. In the northeast, I was laughed at for suggesting casting toward the beach a few years ago, now most practice this safer and more productive casting method in a crosswind. Try again with the wind on your opposite (line hand) shoulder and see what happens.

Previous discussion - driver verses trailer... your last question was about parallel planes of line, let's revisit. There are two halves of any line loop - the energized half coming off the tip and the other half trailing behind the "power wave". I like to call the energized half "driver" and the other half the "trailer". Make sure the driver is closer to you than the trailer. This will prevent the line from colliding with you or the rod, provided you obey rule $1 (above).


I also get lots of wind knots in my line. What casting fault causes those?


Many things can cause these notorious "wind" knots and like they say, most often it's not the wind. For instance a single pile up during a Spey cast can tie a beautiful and complex knot instantly. Although it's hard to say without seeing what you're doing most likely it's due to one of the following:

(a) The line of travel of the "driver" in both directions not being aligned in a straight line. Imagine the drivers staying in a cylinder in both directions. Tilt the cylinder slightly up in the back for a headwind, down in the back / sidearm for a tailwind.

(b) your rod may be drfiting forward before the power stroke while you wait for the rod to load. This causes the stroke to start too far forward and takes the wind right out of the sail in the backcast and weakens the power wave that forms the driver.

(c) you could be using too much force for the length being cast, in other words not letting the rod do the work for you, thus creating turbulence and recoil

(d) you are not extending the forearm on the release so that your thumb (I hope you are using a thumbs up grip) points at the target when you release the line.


Finally, after about 30 minutes of casting the second joint of my rod comes apart mid cast no matter how hard I push the sections together. What can I do to make it stick?

Use some type of natural wax every time you can not scrape flakes off the male end of the ferrule with your fingernail. I prefer pure paraffin wax, others use bees wax. Spey rods create much more torsional force and often require an application of electrical tape.

If the rod continued to come apart, return it and buy SAGE :devil:

Juro

FlyFishAR
04-04-2002, 12:02 PM
Newbie:

I'll start of technical, and finish with a point if that's ok.

Very often new casters have a tendancy to break and/or rotate their wrist in their back cast. Much like the move a golfer makes at the top of his back swing. This will give the rod tip a considerable horizontal movement and cause an arc to be put in the line. When the rod reloads it will remove slack between your tip and the fly. So what you wind up with is a line that extends towards your left side and has to travel over your head to get back to your intended target.

To fix that......for now the motion you will need to make in the foward cast is almost the same as "Hammering in a nail" :eek: (fyi I think my wife is a genius for that analogy). I do NOT intend to say that you shouldn't ever break your wrist, but it is more important that you keep the rod tip traveling in a straight line. It is a move that the body has to get comfortable with.

One of my favorite casting sites of all times is Paul Ardens. He has some stop motion photography of a basic cast that does a very good job of explaining what I am talking about. http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/flycasting/dirtyharry.shtml
Notice his thumb position in relation to the path of the rod tip. The thumb stays at the back of the rod and the back of the hand stays towards the outside.

See if that resolves your problem, if not yell back at me and we'll work it out. ;)

John W. Wilson

newbiefish
04-05-2002, 07:52 AM
Hi,

Thanks for the great advice.

Rule#1 - keep the wind OFF the casting shoulder

If you need to cast with the wind and the wind is directly at your back, how can you turn so that the wind blows on your off shoulder and still be facing the direction in which you need to cast?

| wind
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|. |
|. |
| d me
V

If I turn to get the wind to blow on my off shoulder, I can no longer cast in the direction I need to. I will be casting perpindicular to the desired direction.

Hawkeye
04-05-2002, 09:47 AM
The wind does not need to be perpendicular to your off shoulder. It only needs to be just off center toward your off shoulder side. As you gain experience you will see that this, by itself, will in no way affect where you send your fly.

juro
04-05-2002, 12:58 PM
Sorry, I was a little terse with that one...

"off the casting shoulder" does not mean "blowing in a vector away from it", it means "avoid having the wind blowing ONTO your casting shoulder". Winds blowing from the front or back are not blowing onto the casting shoulder, so you shouldn't be hitting the rod or yourself as a result of the wind, which was the first question you asked (how to avoid).

That's not to say you had that wind direction, but it's always worth repeating that rule :)

Since you're just starting... you should cast as much with your opposite hand as your dominant hand. If you start now you will be one of the fortunate few.

Also, make sure you can fish your backcast as well as your forward cast. Of course you turn around to fish, but casting backwards is a really important skill for windy conditions unless you are ambidextrous.

My brother is an eye surgeon. He reminds to wear eye protection, obey rule #1, and prefers polycarbonate to glass based on evidence from injuries he treats.

Have fun!


Originally posted by newbiefish
Hi,

Thanks for the great advice.



If you need to cast with the wind and the wind is directly at your back, how can you turn so that the wind blows on your off shoulder and still be facing the direction in which you need to cast?

| wind
|
|. |
|. |
| d me
V

If I turn to get the wind to blow on my off shoulder, I can no longer cast in the direction I need to. I will be casting perpindicular to the desired direction.

newbiefish
04-05-2002, 03:49 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the clarification. What about the problem I was having casting with the wind. How do you make long casts in that direction. I was surprised that I could cast easier into the wind.

Since you're just starting... you should cast as much with your opposite hand as your dominant hand. If you start now you will be one of the fortunate few.

I was doing that the other day, and I was wondering if it had any value. I will keep at it. Thanks.

Hawkeye
04-05-2002, 04:31 PM
Generally speaking for casting with the wind at your back you want the plane of your cast to be lower (closer to the ground or water) on the back cast and higher on your forward cast. The logic here is that wind speed is usually lower closer to the ground (much like water current is slower closer to the bottom) and therefore will have less of an effect upon your line and on your forward stroke (angled higher above the water) you are taking greater advantage of the wind assist. I think this applies more to those situations where a gentle presentation is not important. When a delicate and precise presentation is required in a difficult wind situation I generally will just shorten my cast.