Is this to much stealth ? [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Is this to much stealth ?

03-18-2002, 06:50 AM
Ran into this while surfing for my new thinsulate fishing hat.

Probably to drastic a solution to catch that big brown that is always present in a small zipperlip creek I fish. I call it the one cast hole that is all you get before they see you. Perhaps I could get there before day break with the below camoflage and get more than one cast ?

I look forward to your feedback. (This web site does have some interesting things you may want to consider though). I am sure I could use this to lose some weight though, imagine being in that on an 80 degree plus day.


03-18-2002, 08:28 AM
Boy these guys could use some lessons on image / byte size reduction!

Anyway, this reminds me of a day on the Sol duc with a guy wearing bright clothing. After much razzing of my preference for earth tones on the river in summertime, I spotted a nice steelhead and called him over to check it out. I was standing so close I could hit it with the rod tip, but as soon as he got within the fish's range of vision he send it screaming downriver.

I fish the flats hard all season and clothing color is important to stripers in mid-day sun, knee deep crystal clear waters. I have a few experiments planned for this summer in this respect, but of course nothing in this class of camo.

03-18-2002, 10:11 AM
That's for hunting right? was it in a fishing section?

03-18-2002, 10:29 AM

Yes I believe that about the bright color effects on trout and andramous fish. I try to wear only green, tan, brown, or camo colors for steelhead and trout river fishing. Makes a difference on the clear smaller streams/rivers fished in Great Lakes. Made the mistake of wearing bright red and blue hats in the early 80s and wondered why the steelhead and browns were bolting as I approached them stealthily from down stream.

I think I found my new camo thinsulate hat. Hint, search for water fowl (duck, goose) web sites.

Striblue, this was a military surplus web site. Suppose that camo set up would be usable for goose and duck hunters that sit in the same place all day, not suitable for us mobile fly fisherman though. Can't imagine trekking that into some of the small streams fished out here. My heart is pounding on the trek in without lugging something like that, due to the hills that have to be walked in some areas. Great exercise though.


John Desjardins
03-18-2002, 11:30 AM
Hal, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only who sometimes wears camo clothing while fishing. IMHO the only time to wear the bright colors in the woods is when it's hunting season.

old man
03-18-2002, 12:05 PM
Now if I were trying to sneak up on somebody it would be just the ticket. But try false casting with that on and see how much noise you would make. Jim

03-18-2002, 02:31 PM

I made the mistake of not wearing orange during steelhead season 20 years ago in Michigan during the deer rifle season (November) and it is also when the fall steelhead fishing is prime.

I cut through the woods to get to another part of the river it winds all over the place. As I came around a clearing some young hunter had is 30/06 leveled on me, thought I was a white tail. He was hunting on private property where he should not have been, but fisherman trails are allowed through this area. Now I know better during the two week rifle season. Wear orange and be careful where you walk through the woods.

Old Man

I bet I could false cast with that on at least one time, that is all you would get on this particular hole I was thinking of it applying it to. I will get this big one during the Hex hatch at midnight, thats when they are most vulnerable. No what the famed Michigan Hex hatch is ?

03-26-2002, 11:43 PM
I have one hyphenated word for anyone needing either aqua-flage or brush-flage: Tie-Dye

03-27-2002, 09:48 AM
For anyone who doesn't know, the suit originates in the military.

03-27-2002, 01:28 PM
Yes this is a military surplus site, must be the Brits idea certainly not a US military approach with all of our smart weapon technology, Ex-USAF guy here.

:hehe: :hehe:

03-27-2002, 03:12 PM
I think the gilly is still used by the US Forces. It's employed by snipers for the obvious reasons. A good friend of mine "borrowed" mine a few years back. No longer have either one.:(

03-27-2002, 05:42 PM
Probably getting used right now and we know where.

Hope it is very effective since I lost a close business colleague
at WTC

04-04-2002, 11:28 AM

Just a comment about that big brown in the "one cast pool". I have gone round and round with my buddies about Brown Trout vision. Their contention is that Browns have the eyes of Eagles and can distinguish the difference between a barbless size #28 midge and one with the barb left on, at the distance of at least 100 feet. Personally, I think they are all but blind ( I can imagine the eyes are rolling). Let me qualify that somewhat by saying that their vision is not that important to them. From a vision perpective brown trout seem to be very motion sensitive. But their #1 mode of sensation they use both for hunting and avoiding preditors is their lateral line. The browns I have experienced are suckers for a good drift and a properly placed fly. Did I mention they are lazy too because they rarely will move to take a fly in the daytime. But if you make the mistake of "crunching" the gravel, slapping the flyline, or throwing the flyline over the fish, "you're busted" and you'll never get a take. They won't run, they wont hide, they'll just sit there and lip lock.

Sometimes I just hate'em:eyecrazy:

John W.Wilson

04-04-2002, 04:13 PM
I read a book about fishing the Battenkill where the author professed a technique for fishing for browns that went something like this: pick your spot, take 1/2 hour or more to slowly move to it, and wait 1/2 hour or more before starting to fish. Doing it all at night is even better.

04-04-2002, 06:54 PM

I grew up fishing wary browns my first 20 years on the Beaverkill and other Catskill rivers then the last 20 years great lakes (michigan, wisconsin, indiana) rivers and creeks etc. .

In my experience if you want to catch a big brown, fish at night, I mean pitch dark midnight is when they cruise the river from out of their hide outs under cut banks, logs, downed trees etc.. In Michigan we fish the Hex hatch from 10 PM to 2 AM or more in the pitch dark. When the hatch is on the big browns are out there. Other wise fish streamers at night for them. Not many FF can take fishing in pitch darkness it takes a special breed to do it.

When I was 15 one early morning on the Big Delaware by Hancock at Fishes Eddy I spooked a big brown in the shallows because I was to stupid to realize they will lay in the shallow riffles in the early morning until the light comes. Actually I think the big ones are gone back into their hide outs before light ever breaks on the river most days they are so stealthy. Well I came back to the same pool on the Delaware that night specifically for that fish. Had a regular 6 weight trout set up. Took a Grey Ghost and began stripping it through his pool on about the third cast all hell broke loose. Must have been a 28 to 30 inch brown, which I started chasing down river, I had no backing just the fly line. Had him on for a while but almost drowned trying to stay up with him. Couple of more head shakes and he broke me off.

Great memory, browns are very wary I think they are the smartest of the trouts my self. Just saw an article on this if I can find it will post it up here.

Good luck in your pursuits, heard those Arkansas waters are great soon one of my business friends will retiring down there and he fishes, has invited me down any time I want to. Have to take him up on it.


04-04-2002, 07:02 PM
That's to much stealth for me. It looks like it would be hard to cast with all of that on.

04-04-2002, 09:29 PM

If you do come here to fish I expect you to take the time to look me up. I only guide a few trips a year, and the rest of the time I spend fishing with buddies and we trade information. The fishing here has been spectacular this year. I guided 4 trips in Feburary and they all caught their lifetime best brown trout. The fishing here is not nearly as difficult as up north. If I can do it anybody can. Look me up when you get here and we'll tell some lies and catch / release some big fish.

FYI........ I am much better at the lies.;)

John W. Wilson

one of the fish from Feb

04-04-2002, 10:37 PM

If you are catching big browns like that consistently I will be forgetting our great lakes steelhead and trout will be driving their very soon!!

Are you catching those with streamers or nymphs ?

It is not that far from Chicago, one of my work friends was in the Ozarks last week golfing, and this guy is one hell of a fisherman. Wait to I tell him tomorrow. Before he left for his trip I told him he had to try the trout fishing there, but he said he was visiting a retired friend there and was taking his girl friend, no time to fish unfortunately.

Yes I have heard the trout fishing is great there, we are really blessed in America with all of the great free fishing we have all over this country. Need to preserve it for the future.



04-04-2002, 10:57 PM
Now this is a BIG Brown Trout. :whoa:

Is this still the world record ? We don't even have them this big in the great lakes. I have seen thirty pounders but not forty pounders!

I don't know if my steelhead equipment would be enough for these. 8 and 9 weight rods.

04-05-2002, 09:02 AM

You can thank the Arkansas game and Fish Commision for all the Trophy areas the put in in the 90's. all of the big fish I have seen lately have come out of those areas. The 40lb-4oz fish that was caught on the Little Red caused a flood of people to that river. It has seen so much pressure over the years from bait fishing and fly fishermen standing in the reds or snagging spawning fish that we have actually seen a decline in the fishing conditions on that river. Dont get me wrong, we still catch some big fish there, just not the quantitiy that we used to. The last 2 world records came out of Arkansas. The one previous was a 38 lb fish caught on the Norfork River. They caught another 38 lb fish on the Tennicomo a short while ago. In general the whole area hosts some really big fish because of the temperatures associated with tail water fisheries. We don't get the sea runs that Chilie, Patagonia, or the northern US get though. I catch a fair percentage of the 20 lb fish that are caught here. There are not really that many that get caught at all, maybe a few a year. We do however catch lots of fish in the 5-10 lb class. Those fish are 22-24" and are prolific here.

One of the issues we have with world records is Arkansas does not participate in a Catch and Release Record Program. I know where 2 Browns are that are close to 50 lbs, and I have been working on a rainbow that is better that 40 inches (probably around 44"). I guess I just need to get motivated to go catch those fish. I am enclosing a picture of a 37" female that I caught the same day as the other fish. Somebody told me that it would have been a line class world record. I dont know those things are too much like baseball stats, to really peak my interest. Who pitched the only no hitter, on a Sunday, during the phase of the full moon, with a last name ending in the letter "Y"? I'll enclose a picture of that fish. And since I am a major "Catch and Relase" fanatic it is a little anticlimatic.

Email me at and we'll trade phone numbers. I always enjoy fishing with people who have enthuaism for the sport.

John W. Wilson

04-05-2002, 06:54 PM

50 lb Brown I don't know what I would do if I saw one of them.

Thats great they have set aside trophy stream sections, I am a big proponent of no kill sections. Of course it was embedded in my FF psych in 1965 when they put in the no kill on the Beaverkill River in New York State which is where I cut my teeth trout fly fishing. Today the trout fishing is still very good on the Beaverkill.

In Michigan there is only one river in Michigan that has a no kill FF only stretch and the fishing is of trophy category. Need more rivers to be placed into that category in my opinion.

I hear the golf is good down there to, hmm fishing in the morning and evening for big browns and golf during the day, sounds very good indeed, plus it is warm fishing, not what we have up here for a good part of the year.

Yes we must talk more.



04-05-2002, 07:32 PM

These are the steps associated with fishing for a 50 lb Brown Trout:

1. You spend a month tracking the habits of the fish (in my typical way "over the top" fashion).
2. Now that you are prepared you wake up at 2am and sneak in to the water but dont go in so you dont spook the fish.
3. You stare at the fish for hours, crawling on your belly, covering yourself with mud, not eating, drinking, or moving. You are however, allowed to breathe if you don't do it to often.
4. You wait for the water to rise (since it is a tail water) and the fish to begin actively feeding.
5. You make a perfect cast.....
6. The fish turns on the fly.....
7. You freeze....all the years of experience go out the window....and you spook the fish when you freak out!!!!
8. The fish goes under the bank and the water flushes you off the river.
9. You curse....throw your fly rod (not really)...... kick some dirt.....throw some rocks at the rising water....and vow to never fish again as long as you live!!!!!!!!!!Arrrrggghhhh:mad:

Been there, done that, exactly that......Lets go play golf :hehe:
Maybe catch a few stockers......(I hate brown trout sometimes)

Hal, come on down, you'll ruin yourself. Don't say I didn't warn you. ;)

I look foward to it.

John W. Wilson
US Fly fishing Team

04-06-2002, 08:34 AM

Yes you are reeling me in. Question is do I go north for cold steelhead fishing or south to Arkansas for warmth and big trout and golf ?

How did you manage to catch those big browns wearing all of that white (hat, vest, etc), heck I have camo hat, green vest, shirt, face camoflage, etc.. when I decide to pursue wary stream trout out here. What color fly line do you find best for the wary browns ?

I surfed a little bit last night and found detailed information on the Arkansas and Missouri fishing and the trophy trout areas you mentioned. Actually they are not no kill, but you can retain some over XX inches a day. Don't worry I have released every thing for the last 18 years. Got over the killing of fish a long time ago. Heck I could have had a number mounted but elected not even to do that. Rather see them swim again for the next angler, maybe me again if I am lucky.

More examinations is needed, I guess I will check out the golf courses in the area today.

We don't have browns any wheres near that size in our rivers up here. Max river brown is usually around ten pounds, however we have lake run browns out of the great lakes that can go into the 20 lb range. That is a fall fishery though they come in some of the rivers following the king salmon and fall steelhead runs feeding on the fish eggs.

Oh yes I will be down to Arkansas soon I think. Plus I hear the white water canoeing and rafting etc is pretty good. The big selling point is warmer trout fishing then up here for sure !!