Indicator my ass!!!!! [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Indicator my ass!!!!!


Moonlight
02-19-2002, 08:41 PM
Sure and begora, I'eve been around enough see to that evoloution is a fact of life but if what we are seeing now being bantied about as "Fly Fishing" is the evoloution of our sport then I need to go to the great beyond!
What you might ask has the old boy so riled up? Tis a simple thing really some of the unwashed have obviously made another run at the "Grail", to wit the guided sports operating with a so called reputable guide service are (casting ) 6" long styrofoam floats and slinkys (thats nothing more than lead split shot in a tube) at the fair waters of the Olympic Peninnsula!
And what you might ask are these chaps casting the giant styrofoam floats ,pardon me, indicators on? Well Spey Rods of course for after all these chaps are "Fly Fishers Of The New Ilk" and they are paying good money to spend a few minutes in the Pursuit of the "Grail", so why should they be denined. After all only slow minded folks would spend countless hours in pursuit of something so easy to catch(Right).
Well personally I can climb way up on my highest horse and tell one and all that this act of Catching is not Fly Fishing and if you or anyone on this board takes offense at my diatribe then you should consider taking up another hobby.
As I have stated before and will unfotunatley be forced to say again. If what you are doing in the pursuit of Steelheads with a Fly Rod is lacking in Traditon, Ethics, or Restraint then it A'int fly fishing .
Well I have dismounted my steed of the lofty hieghts and feel better for having stated what I feel is the obvious, gear fishing with a fly rod is just that "Gear Fishing"
so don't expect to be codeled or made less than the butt of jokes if you indulge in fishing with floats with the idea that you are what you ain't.
Peace in the valley
Captin Jack

Steelheader69
02-19-2002, 09:50 PM
Sstay on your high horrse, I agre totaly. There comes a point in where do you draw the line. Spinner flies, basicaly hardware for flyrodders. I understand using either corkies or such for strike indicators, but come now, dink floats??? I'm a gear fisherman, aas wel aas a fly fisherman. But I seperate the two. Whaat's the point of using a fly rod if you're not trying t use it. Especiially spey rods, I'm desperately trying to get the hang of mine down so I can effectively swing flies on stretches of the Hoh and Duc I never was able to before. I've caught TONS of fish via float and bait/jigs. My spey rod has yet to get it's "cherry" popped, but I'm not so desperate thta I'd use driftgear oon it.

Just my .02

NrthFrk16
02-19-2002, 10:30 PM
This picture was taken prior to me threading the indicator onto a leader which was attached to a 8/9 Mastery Spey which was being thrown with a 8126-3. ;)

http://students.washington.edu/rpetzold/bobber.jpg
:devil:

We have been down this road many times...oh well, it sure does make for good discussion and some classic cliches. :hehe:

chromer
02-19-2002, 10:39 PM
Fishing is fishing, and I don't try to "judge" anyone for the way they like to fish but it's always puzzled me how people pretend to flyfish by using drift gear on fly rods. The only reason I could think of is to try to increase hookups, but then conventional gear is so much better for that kind of fishing so the net effect is less hookups than being good at either method. I have a lot of respect for good gear anglers, they really know their stuff. I have even more respect for good fly anglers, because it's a heck of a lot harder and that's also the way I like to fish. The in-between doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense :confused:

Moonlight
02-19-2002, 10:55 PM
Well Ryan You are the one who uses a 'Bug Rod" so why shouldn't you be the one who now becomes now kown as "Butthead '" after all it appears too be a generational thing and you undoubtdly qualify for the MTV generation wink wink wink!

NrthFrk16
02-19-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Moonlight
...after all it appears too be a generational thing and you undoubtdly qualify for the MTV generation wink wink wink!

I guess so...but I resent that comment in regards to me being part of the MTV Generation. MTV is evil...

Hell, Ive got a Dead Kennedys poster right alongside a Sage poster in my room... :hehe:

Me with waders:
http://students.washington.edu/rpetzold/wagnertrout2.jpg

Me without...
http://students.washington.edu/rpetzold/ryanblackmod.jpg

You old farts are too much fun... ;)

striblue
02-19-2002, 11:53 PM
;) Ryan.... I love your clothing... looks great.. I have rain gear also.. but I rightfully refer to them as Barbour "foul" weather garments.. will have to speak to my valet about that. The hair... since I have none ,I think the spike look is great.. looks like a head full of feeding sand eels or a school all borrowing down into the sand at the same time.... so when we see you this summer on Cape Cod, and if Penguin sees you, be careful... If you see two strange guys with tying scissors and portable tying vices on the beach... do not approach! especially if you hear.. " hey... you over there....come here ... we have neat pictures of big stripers... wanna see?"

Moonlight
02-20-2002, 12:13 AM
Egad the Sartorialy perfect Striblue has weighed in. I love those proper English fishing garments Hell the Queen wears them and she can afford anything! I lowly me the son of Irish immigrants and Salish Natives have found myself walking too much these last few years and have fallen in with the likes of Ryan and now wear (dare I say ) breathable , not only waders but alas rain jackets too. Oh well the road to hell is along one and begins but one step!
Cheers.

rich_simms
02-20-2002, 12:25 AM
In Canada they call it fishing with float rods and center pin reels.:tsk_tsk: :smokin:

loco_alto
02-20-2002, 12:40 AM
you can lead a horse to water ... but you can't make him swing.

And Ryan, I too appreciate the spikes (and especially the likeness to sand eels - really too funny) as an old skool fart who myself witnessed the likes of Black Flag and Minor Threat back in the day... oh boy, this takes me back 20 years! Amazing thing, the number of ex-punks who enjoy flyfishing. And current punks, or at least current people who listen to old punk music. It must be the individualist tendencies coming to the fore.

So I did a brain search for reasons to argue that there is no "real" punk anymore, particularly for idolization of a spirit long $old out. Yet by analogy I stumble up against my own use of indicators and so also the frightening conclusion that there is no real "fly fishing" anymore either - and this comes as one weaned on glass and the dry line before I entered my teen moshing years.

so really, the times they are a changing. One thing we can perhaps agree on - put 'em back, share the water, and be a gent - and of these I have no doubt that Ryan is ahead of the pack by several lengths

sean
02-20-2002, 12:45 AM
come on now...

You should be listening to the misfits...leave the later 80s crap alone.

However in the flyfishing community I guess fishing with an indicator is pretty punk.

-sean

Moonlight
02-20-2002, 12:53 AM
You "Punks" can have it, glass was the downfall, before that the limit was how many builders could hire enough people to split plane and glue what was needed to fill the orders. There was always room on the beat and ,Jimmy was going to grade school in Ballard, not High School in Garfield "Are you Expierenced." Ain't it fun! Sum day I'll learn how to use those nifty smiley faces until then you'll just have to get too know me.

NrthFrk16
02-20-2002, 01:03 AM
Damn loco_alto, we'll have to spend a day on the river one of these days and discuss the differances between the old skool punk and more modern punk.

Punk has seperated into so many sub-genres, its amazing. You've got your pop-punk (Green Day, MxPx, old school Blink-182) and melodic hardcore (Bad Religion, NoFX, any band on Epitaph or Fat Wreck) plus you've got your crust punk (old school) and this has all branched out into ska, emo, post-hardcore, sXe hardcore.

You go through my cd collection and you will see pretty much every sub-genre as over the years I've gone through periods where that particular genre was my favorite. I listen to more Indie Rock now then anything, which has roots in many of the genres.

Plus I listen to alot of Clash, Cure, Ramones, Elvis Cotello, Bob Dylan etc.

You do make a great point about how like punk, there is no real flyfishing anymore...I loved that!! :)

Anyways...I'm rambling. ;)

One of these days, I am going to show up at a WSC meeting in my tripple studded belt, my black chucks and all indie-rock and scare the crap out of all the elders. :devil: :devil:

On a side not, a couple years ago, I did dye my hair lagoon blue...learned very quickly that tackle shop employment and blue hair dont go together very well. My mother also said I wasnt allowed to go up to Fortson untill I shaved my head or bleached it...she was worried about the locals thinking I was some sort of freak and in turn getting their hands on me. :D

Sean-Never was a big fan of the Misfits...was never punk enough. :(

NrthFrk16
02-20-2002, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by Moonlight
You "Punks" can have it, glass was the downfall...

I figured you had may have been hitting the glass alittle tonight after your posts made little sense....actually I dont think it was the glass but the whole bottle! ;)

Originally posted by rich_simms
In Canada they call it fishing with float rods and center pin reels.:tsk_tsk: :smokin:

Atleast I dont go up to the greatest steelhead rivers in the world and fish eggsucking leaches!!!!!! ;) :chuckle: :chuckle: :smokin:

loco_alto
02-20-2002, 01:12 AM
yeah, dug the Misfits, but Glen Danzig's zombie Elvis persona just kept going from silly to sillier. Way too faux serious. The howling feedback at the end of every song was however much appreciated. Very much. then blip. next song.

just checked my copy of Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables - issued in 1980. The one and only DK release I ever bought. Cool poster at least, on the "cusp" of the 70's.

My record collection is comparatively punk narrow these days, as it thinned out considerably around the time that Bad Moon Rising and the Gimme Indie rock 7" came out.

Moonlight
02-20-2002, 01:33 AM
Ryan you are the best of the cyber fishers all theses little smilely faces and quotes in italics ! Oh that some day I too can be so glib, may haps we will meet and you can enlighten me as to the way of the true "Internet Fisher". As to the amount of consumption in my post you need to stand a little closer if you want too look oin that closet.

NrthFrk16
02-20-2002, 01:41 AM
Now that you got me all nostalgic about my show going, punk rock days...which werent too long ago...

Anyways...if I get the chance and if anyone intrested...I'll do a little photoessay...Punk...in the year 2000.

;)

Isnt amazing how threads evolve??...this is has been one of my favorites in a while!!!

Juro & Doublespey are going to wake up in the morning, see a thread about strike indicators that has almost 20 replies and over 100 views and think 'Oh God...what has happened...I have some moderating to do.'

juro
02-20-2002, 06:48 AM
Alright, you made me do it...:devil:

Mean Gene
02-20-2002, 08:10 AM
Well after reading this post and the replies I'm seriously thinking about going out and spikeing my hair....both of them! :hehe: I clicked to read about indicators and ended up doing a study from the book "Encyclopedia Punkanica". Man, you never know how much you can be enlightened until you jump into one of these studies! :eyecrazy: Hey Ryan, I don't suppose there's any banjos in punk music are there? Probably not. I don't suppose my mandolin would fit in too well either. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to spend the rest of my life hanging with the uncultured crowd. I guess I'll have to rethink some of my fly-fishing positions now too. I always thought that there was nothing like hooking up your fly rod with a big old night crawler and drifting it through the wild trout section. I guess that would still be ok but I just couldn't use an indicator? :hehe: Well, if you'll excuse me I have to go back to the bench and tie up a few more "worm" flies!:eyecrazy:

striblue
02-20-2002, 09:03 AM
Ah.... Now I am really lost... anyway.. Ryan.. try the color Chartruese or Olive on a dye job before you get to the Cape.... we will be on the lookout.

sean
02-20-2002, 10:40 AM
Thanks Ryan for what turned out to be an interesting thread....MxPx, jeez have not thought of them since high school. Good to hear you are listening to the Clash and such. Will have to send you the Misfits box set so you can give em a real listen...

And Mean Gene there is room for you. For us *punks* who became bored with punk after they separated it into different genres(which aint very punk) some of us turned to hillbilly and old country.

If we ever cross paths I will bring the gutitar and the banjo and we can play some old Hank or Bob Wills. That stuff is just as punk as anything else.

Plus hillbillies have more fishing songs:devil:

Ok back to sage rods and simms waders....

Anyone want to go fishing Friday?


-sean

juro
02-20-2002, 12:16 PM
Aw c'mon... not even one comment about the likeness of the calvin characature and the aforementioned rebel? ;)

sinktip
02-20-2002, 12:44 PM
Wow this whole thread linking methods of chasing the greatest freshwater fish on earth with music is quite interesting. While I must admit I start to squirm a bit hearing Ryan mention MxPx and Dylan in the same paragraph, I can forgive him for he is young and knows not what he says.

Wouldnít Punk be equated more with fishing with a bare hook to mirror the minimalist sense of the Ramones, the Sex Pistols and Iggy and the Stooges? If so then this would evolve into simple flies like the Bunny Leech and Wolley Bugger. These indie flies are the Helium, Built to Spill and Half Japanese of the fishing world.

Moving up the evolutionary ladder we come to the GP. What a workhorse it is while still staying true to its history and form. Dare I venture a comparison to either the early Rolling Stones or the early or late work of Robert Zimmerman? (MxPx my butt) A sunny spring day swinging a 1/0 GP on a North sound river just calls out for the melodic tones of Exile on Main Street or the apocalyptic warnings of A Hard Rainís Gonna Fall.

Following this line of thought the flashy marabou spiders some of us love equate to the glam rock of Queen, Bowie, Alice Cooper, the New York Dolls and Kiss. These are a nice blend of talent and show. Taken to its logical extreme, the newer all synthetic patterns are nothing but the NíSync, Backstreet Boys boy bands of our time. All show and no go. (Damn, almost threw up even typing that last part.)

Finally we have the classic Atlantic Salmon and neo-spey patterns. The complexities of these evoke thoughts of the multi-layered orchestration of latter day U2 or the wild experimentation of Surrealistic Pillow era Airplane and the Velvet Underground.

But where you ask does an indicator fit in? My answer for you is Rap. Why? Because it is posing as something it isnít. Much like NWA and Sugarhill Gang, this method is effective but it is no more fly fishing than they are rock music. You can sample Queen and Bowie all you want but you still just have Vanilla Ice. Or as an old boss of mine was fond of saying, you canít polish a turd. Of course it could be worse. One only need look at the poster child aboration of identy crisis, the egg sucking leech to feel the nauseous waves of Boy George and Culture Club spilling over your soul. Do you really want to hurt me? God yes!

Enough, enough. I think Sean was right, I need to listen to some old Hank to purge my psyche. Or maybe some Haggard. What can I say, Mama Tried.

sinktip
02-20-2002, 12:49 PM
Sorry Juro, I never even thought about the caracature looking like our own Sparkey. I guess I am just not used to seeing an indicator fisher"man" pee standing up.
:chuckle:

sean
02-20-2002, 01:08 PM
Sinktip that about sums it up.

Now I can justify why to my friends why I spend more time fishing than going to shows. It turns out all my steelhead patterns equate to the music I listen to after all.

This opens up a whole new era. Now I can start organizing my music collection by types of flies.

I think a bowie/t.rex mix will go quite nicely with all the marabou spiders I have to tie up tonight...

-sean

pescaphile
02-20-2002, 01:48 PM
I love it Moonlight! I'm not sure if I'm in your camp (I use those sinking tips) but I know I can see it from mine. If I don't get bit on a swing I don't get bit! As for dink floats on a spey rod: It's the same to me as the chuck-n-duck crowd. Why not not use conventional tackle? It's obviously about catching more fish. Fly fishing for steelhead to me is about catching them the way I want to or, more accurately I suppose, fishing for them the way I want to.

As for music, I had to laugh at myself when reading this. Just two days ago I was swinging my bug through a run with music in my head. I'd step, make my cast, mend, and then begin gyrating my hips in a way that would make Elvis blush while singing "C'mon Baby do the lo-co-motion..". Was snowing like crazy and I swear this heron that was perched not far from me all fluffed to stay warm was staring at me thnking I was mad! Spring please get here soon!

Pescaphile

pmflyfisher
02-20-2002, 02:17 PM
Never could adapt to FF with float indicators of any type.

Was raised an eastern nymph and wet fly fisherman with sinking and sink type lines.

When I moved to the mid west and started steelhead and salmon FF did go to chuck and duck for a while with fly rod which definitely increased success but still did not feel right.

For the last 7 years it has been swinging sink tips only, success ratio has declined compared to chuck N duck but so be it.

At least I feel like the original fly fisherman I was raised as back east on the rivers which are called the cradle of american fly fishing (NY Catskills).

As for music yes I am a sixties hippie generation person, was to NY Fillmore East famous theatre many times seeing the dead, Byrds, Allman Brothers, Mountain, Credence, Led Zepplin etc...

However, I never mix music with fly fishing on the water. Why ruin a hopefully tranquil and solitude experience ?

Later

rich_simms
02-20-2002, 02:27 PM
Sinktip, You've got it wrong, the ESL is more in tune to Johnny Cash; it's a working man's fly in black, you get what you see and the dash of color is like June Carter belting it out in "Jackson".

Special, The skunk is also employed, if I need to get fancy:razz: and if I'm bored, I'll swing a marabou spider:o

Mean Gene
02-20-2002, 02:29 PM
I'm under the impression the tunes can change without tying on another fly. Let's say you're fishing through a run just about dark on a lazy evening. Now to me that would be like an old fiddle waltz Midnight on the Water. About that time you see a fish roll and can make out a LARGE shadow just beyond that rock next to the willows. At that point I can hear the guitar starting up the beginning of Deuling Banjos. You're sneaking up on that monster gettin' your fly closer, and closer and WHAM! He sucks it in and heads downstream. As you haul your old butt out on the bank and start running down stream the guitar and banjo are now going full speed! You finally get him in at the next pool downstream and release him as the song ends: duh duh duh duh duh duh duh strum! As you get back in your car and head for the barn what do you hear? You hear the Doobie Brothers crankin' out Rockin' Down the Highway! So closes another GREAT day! :D

sinktip
02-20-2002, 02:43 PM
Mean Gene,

I agree 100%. All I would add, and maybe this just applies to me, is when the leader parts with the fly 10 minutes into the battle and the Dobbie's refrain quickly bridges into into Humble Pie's Thirty Day's in the Hole.

Rich,

I'm willing to think Johnny Cash for the ESL but only along the lines of a Boy Named Sue. A novelty song for a novelty fly. After all, they both can make you smile but neither one will ever make my top ten list :smokin: Hard to argue with your success rate with it though.

Doublespey
02-20-2002, 04:01 PM
Spark, you're right! I was sure the Flame-Wars had begun!!!:hehe:

And what do I find?? A trip down Pop-Culture Lane!!! I love this thread - some classic analogies presented here by our intrepid anglers. And who woulda thunk it would begin with a slam on Indicator Fishermen.

I personally equate steelhead flyfishing with the Blues - The Lowdown Lowholed Steelhead took me down the Rapids and Left Me Blues! Some might suggest that my flies mirror this as well . . . but that's another story! ;)

In regards to Indicator Fishing - I gotta weigh :rolleyes: in! Yes, swinging a fly is the "classic" method of angling for steelhead and, for most of us, the most pleasurable means of pursuing our favorite gamefish. And No, I don't normally fish with indicators (tried it once).

I talked with a spin-fisherman slaying the hatchery summer-runs at Reiter years ago. He was fishing a SixPack (small flashback nymph #8 - usually used for trout) on a very light drift rig with a single split shot. He'd landed 4 fish that August afternoon, including one about 15lbs - in the bright sun - while the other anglers fishing big gobs of eggs and shrimp were skunked.

I watched the show for a bit, then asked him why he was fishing a fly? Did he consider what he was doing "Flyfishing"? His answer was that he fished it because it worked as well as any of the small baits he'd tried and No, he didn't consider what he was doing as flyfishing.

Would it have changed if he was using a flyrod/reel and monofilament line (remember, he's ~swinging~ the fly)?? If he used a section of leadcore instead of the splitshot?

I include this because I view indicator fishing in the same camp. Trying to draw a line with what is (and is not) flyfishing is crazy! :eyecrazy: Guys who fish indicators probably enjoy playing the fish on a flyrod and single action reel, and there are many types of water where only an indicator fisherman (or float fisherman with conventional gear) can effectively fish.

Gear guys search for the best Floating Line (like PowerPro) that they can use because it helps them ~Mend~ the line to promote a drag-free drift. As long as the water being fished is within 40-50', flyrods and lines aren't the disadvangage some might assume they are.

Flyshops in BC teach it, several books (inc. Advanced Fly Fishing for Steelhead) cover it, and several fly personalities use it extensively (Northwest Flyfishing's editor Steve Probasco is a leading proponent).

No, it's not how I normally choose to fish for Steelhead, but if my home waters were rivers with narrow streambeds and a lot of fast deep runs and not rivers with wide floodplains like the Sky or Skagit?? I'd be packing a whole bunch of those indicators in my vest!:razz:

Seems this is just another means - like the long-belly vs Shooting Head debate - of seperating ones self from the rest of the flyfishing RiffRaff on the river! :devil: As another board member once posted, "All fisherman are A$$holes - except the ones I'm fishing with that Day"

Damn - I've gotta remember to put that in my Sig file!

My .02,

Brian

KerryS
02-20-2002, 04:48 PM
Never hear music during steelheading only before and after.

Carl Verheyen
Paul Gilbert
George Lynch
Van Halen
ect.

Capt. Mel Simpson
02-20-2002, 08:40 PM
Hey Moon, go for it, I'll cover ya. That crap they call flyfishing with those damn floats has no place on a river that I fish, and I'll make sure anyone I see doing it will know how I feel. We used to I call it Californicating Oregon, I understand it started with the Redding group and spread north to the Umpqua. Well they kicked their asses off that river and when I fished the Dean last year was told they arn't allowed there either.

I say, when you see someone flinging those damn things.... strike fast and deep.

NrthFrk16
02-20-2002, 09:04 PM
sinktip-
Your knowledge of today's music sure blew me away...I must say, that, if we ever do a "Post of the Year" contest or something along those lines, that one will be my choice!!! I think I'll have to pass that one around...

I must admit I do enjoy Doublespey's view. I fish indicators when the water I am fishing is much more condusive to fishing indicators than a standard swing...which is very typical of the Stilly (home waters). It is a very slotty river and in the summer-time alot of the productive holes lose all their current!

Doublespey's story about the gentlemen at Reiter rings oh so true. I fish up there in the summertime, :o and typically fish small flies on long light leaders with the tiniest amount of lead...and yes Arnold, I have driftfished your Spade, as well as tied it on a jighook. :devil:

I would do anything to have the chance to have Reiter to myself for one summer day. Those fish up there are so aggresive and so condusive to the dryline. One can only dream...

One summer day, a few years ago, I walked in above the creek with my bugrod strung up with an indicator and a Fortson Spade (jighook spade) and hooked fish proceaded to hook a fish. It was a very slow day for the gear fisherman and the look on their face was priceless as they saw this flyflinger hook a steelhead.

Juro-
You got me and another cartoon charcter confused...actually, this is me...
http://www.fegan.net/petaimages/pissonw.gif :D

NrthFrk16
02-20-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by sean
Now I can justify why to my friends why I spend more time fishing than going to shows.

I finally had to give up on going to shows as it seems the latest fad in the indie/undergroud is sXe/vegan/PETA rocks hardcore...

Let's just say, once my fellow scenesters found out I tortured poor defenseless fishes in my sparetime, they shunned me. :(

sinktip
02-21-2002, 03:24 PM
Ryan,

I need to apologize as I took a pretty hard line on indicator fishing in my lengthy post. In all seriousness, I don't have anything against them. That is not a method I enjoy fishing but they work. I couldn't resist wrapping them in with Rap though as it flowed so nicely with my attack on the dreaded ESL.

Fish on Punk Boy!

NrthFrk16
02-21-2002, 08:26 PM
Duggan-
No need for an apology (well maybe one for comparing rap to indicator fishing ;))...I took no offense to what you said.

One last word or should I say picture on the whole subject...I managed to dig this out of the hard drive this evening. :D

ChucknDuck
02-22-2002, 12:59 AM
Nice doo Ryan,

Of course that has to be in reference to fish seeing blue as the first color in the AM and the last in the PM. What a marvel you are!! Now, if you'd just tote a little Black Flag or some classic Butthole Surfers around in your vest when prying the hallowed reaches of the upper Sky...might scare some fish into submission. Better come down and fish the waters where indicators are not questioned...only flyrods. "What the hell do them guys wanna ketch wit dem things?!!" Just bring your hippers n' flannel shirt.

By the way Spark...whats your take on Broodstock Programs in the state? Just curious since I was supposed to be involved with one, and when Oly found out more about the program they freaked and said no-go... I'm, very curious about the position of board members on the brood stock programs...Hope I'm not coming in late with a subject that thats allready been whooped on.
Thanks,
Dan

NrthFrk16
02-22-2002, 01:22 AM
:D...too funny CnD!! :)

Im actually not a board member on the WSC anymore and my take up broodstock programs is so up in the air. I've read reports from Oregon that they do not work down there, yet at the same time, we've seen a decent number of success with the Snider Creek program and the Vedder River.

Plus, I think everyone measures the success of broodstock programs upon differnt goals. I believe the success of a broodstock program lies in the ability to propogate a natural run without reducing the genetic integrity of a certain stock...

Others may view success as something totally differnt.

Broodstock programs are on the forefront for salmonid stock management and the success of these early programs could very well define the future of our steelhead and salmon stocks!

Sorry about not having a better answer...hope it helped! :)

OC
02-25-2002, 02:19 PM
It's amazing what folks think about while fishing, some are into music others carry on conversations with the fly at the end of their line as if they were talking over a phone line. I know one guy that when he fishes a black scampie he recites Julia Childs shrimp recipes out loud.

Also just spent 8 days over in Asotin on the Snake River. Before the river was dropped 3 feet fishing was very, very good.

NrthFrk16
02-25-2002, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by OC
I know one guy that when he fishes a black scampie he recites Julia Childs shrimp recipes out loud.


Hmmmm...I wonder who that would be! :devil: :hehe:

sinktip
02-26-2002, 12:40 PM
White wine, olive oil and a chipotle rub works great for getting the spey hackles to lay back nicely while still allowing the fly to breath in the softer currents. I refuse to me made to feel bad because my flies are on the cutting culinary edge. Fish like the scampi, beavers go wild for it and it also is quite tasty with a little cocktail sauce. Who could ask for more?

OC
02-26-2002, 02:33 PM
Lot's of good X music, a little beaver, scampi and egg sucking leaches cooked on a river side fire. The hell with the singal malt Scotch and expensive cigars, for that matter steelhead be damned. I'm having so much fun I don't have time to cast a line!
OC

rich_simms
02-26-2002, 02:35 PM
Come on Sinktip and go slummin' with an ESL, it goes great with Buckhorn and pork rinds. And when your done with the pork rinds you can grease it up for your floater.:hehe:

OC
02-26-2002, 02:59 PM
Hey Rich,
I fished with Sinktip this very morning and he never, never, never, never, never would ever use a ESL. But you know he was fishing the run above me and I'm sure I could hear the tunes of Johnny Cash a singing from up his way. I must have been mistaken, probably some song bird singing "Lonesome Prison".

sinktip
02-27-2002, 12:15 PM
Ok this is my last word on this issue. Steve was on the right track. Desperate times call for desperate measures so I did get a little creative yesterday morning.

First off it was not an ESL but an ESGCJBFTBBL tube fly. Translation is an Egg Sucking Guinea Collared June Bug colored Flashabou Tailed Black Bunny Leech tied on a short brass tube. Just to spice things up a little it was ahead of a 1/0 black hackled, purple floss bodied and turkey winged spey fly. I know it sounds horrible but it did have a certain syncronicity (for all you closet Police fans out there).

As for the Johnny Cash reference, once again OC barely misses the mark. It wasn't Folsom Prison Blues but either 'Social Distortion's version of Ring of Fire or more likely the Chieftan's rendition of The Long Black Veil.

And Rich, to paraphrase the man in black, simply thinking about fishing the dreaded ESL "makes me hang my head and cry".

andre
02-27-2002, 12:34 PM
syncronicity (for all you closet Police fans out there).

Syncronicity was the end of the Police, too bad I had many short term memories from that era.

Doublespey
02-27-2002, 03:22 PM
Gawd, 'tip . . . you kill me!!

First - you should have been humming "The Ring of Fire" 'cause that's where you're gonna get sent by the Spey Gods when they find out you fished a legitimate (i assume) spey fly on the hind end of that Bunny Monstrosity! :hehe: :devil: :devil:

As for the ESL - the Police had something to say about that as well. "Don't Stand so Close to Me!!" :eek:

Tight lines!

DS