Does the Rogue really need a 18ft rod [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Does the Rogue really need a 18ft rod


Willie Gunn
01-10-2002, 03:15 PM
Apart from boosting ones ego is a 18foot rod really necessary :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

Jealous Malcolm[COLOR=limegreen][COLOR=green]

fredaevans
01-10-2002, 05:24 PM
I've got to be careful of my spending habits. If I don't keep up the annual total Joan will go into Culture Shock. Now we would not want that to happen to a 56 year old redhead would we???:devil:

So, there are "presidents" to maintain here that, if violated, could get my boy-toy budget slashed.:eek:

Dble Haul
01-10-2002, 07:48 PM
How many pieces to break down to traveling size? :hehe:

pmflyfisher
01-10-2002, 08:26 PM
Yes I have told Fred it is hard for me to imagine an 18 foot fly rod.

But a man has to do what a man has to do !!

I would have to break it down walking between some sections of the rivers up in Michigan. Would never be able to navigate some of those fishermans trails.

I could give up my Ballys Fitness Club membership if I took up casting that pound plus of rod regularly :hehe: :hehe:

NrthFrk16
01-10-2002, 11:14 PM
Does any river need a 18' rod? :confused:

:)

Adrian
01-10-2002, 11:41 PM
My gut sense is, the bigger (wider) the river then the more water you can effectively cover with a longer rod. It's not about casting distance so much as what happens after, during the drift. After all, on a big river with plenty of room behind, you can make a 100ft cast with a 9ft rod but do you get as much control over the cast as with, say a 12ft or 15ft?

Maybe someone can figure out the math and calculate how much additional water/fishing time per additional 12 inches of rod given a 90 ft cast?

Why not a 20ft rod if the river is big enough and you have the biceps to handle it - how about it Fred?:)

steeliesonafly
01-10-2002, 11:49 PM
Sorry you guys, but my wife was really getting excited until she finally read we were talking about fly poles and not rods.....:rolleyes:

fisshman26
01-10-2002, 11:54 PM
This past fall I was fishing with a friend on the Thompson and he broke out his 17ft rod and was easily fishing 150-160ft but the amazing thing was how well he could control his drift at these incredible distances. He was in control of his fly at all times and that is what catches fish.

fredaevans
01-11-2002, 12:15 AM
A longer rod does give you an incredible amount of line control at large distances. But most 15 footers will do what you need .... unless you're fishing very wide water and 'have to reach out and touch somebody.'

Will this be 'over-kill' for most situations, you bet. But for specific applications this will be the 'go-to' rod.
fe

pmflyfisher
01-12-2002, 11:58 AM
My target range for a light spey rod is 13 to 15 feet in either a 7/8
or 8/9 weight .

Sound reasonable ?

I think the 7/8 weight is what I need though due to the smaller rivers and light tippets (4 to 6lbs) fished here in the mid west.

Comments please, still in R+D mode on this.

(I don't make rash decisions on purchases unless I absolutely have to. Did that on one major thing in my life, MY WIFE. Married her six months after meeting her, we hardly new each other, this year is our 25th anniversay and we have 3 boys. ):smokin: :smokin:

kush
01-15-2002, 01:41 AM
Fred,

I bought a pair of 18' B&W "Experts" from a guy who walked into the Michael and Young Fly shop looking to sell a bunch of rods! I paid $100 each - CANADIAN! That is a screaming deal in fact Dave, the co-owner of M&Y still hasn't forgiven me for scooping him. Now these were brand new rods - both with the plastic sleeves still on the cork, but they were definitely older generation rods with fairly thin walled construction - that is why I bought the pair - insurance!

I used these rods everywhere and yes Fred, you will have to answer the "how long is that rod" question many times. And yes, you can cast prodigious distances and fish the fly properly way out there. While I still fish it occasionally, it is becoming a rarer occurrence each season. There are a number of reasons for this. The first is that I broke one 2 seasons ago (when I had Juro up on the Thompson) and now I am a bit paranoid about breaking the other!

As well, I have a significant (extravagant?) number of other rods to fish and I don't feel the macho need to impress with the size of my rod (though it was fun). However, I think the most important reason I've cut back is the effort required to fish it on a regular basis. I fished this rod 3-4 days every week on the Thompson for 2 months a season over a 3 year period and though I am big strong athletic guy, the rod eventually wore me out. Now it wasn't that I got tired each day or even each trip, it was the cumulative effect. Eventually, it was my wrists and finally the dreaded "Tennis Elbow". Today I sport wrist braces and a elbow brace for ALL my casting. As others have asked, is it necessary, of course it is not, I catch just as many fish on the Thompson with my 10151 and my 10160 (I can even come close to matching the 18's distance with the 10160). Lots of days I use a 14' Loop or my trusty 9140-3 and do just fine. Yet, on a busy November day I look at all the people and my mind goes for the big gun... in fact I'm still considering a certain 20' Hardy that was offered to me - I think it comes with its own brace system!

Fred, have fun with your new toy - but be careful, it is not to be trifled with.

pmflyfisher
01-15-2002, 07:11 AM
Fred,

This sounds dangerous, please be careful. Sounds like when I bought the longer down hill skies to get more speed.

Hal

fredaevans
01-15-2002, 07:25 AM
Ex-pat Canadian, or no, a lumber jack I'm not. As much as this (and you did get quite a deal and a half. Oh, question: was the fellow who sold the rods a longshoreman? Did the rods - for that price - just happen to fall out of a cargo container??) Hell that was so long I forgot the question.

Ah well, as impressive as this rod is (remembering that I've yet to swing it as I write this) not a prayer I could use this rod for much more than an hour or two without having to shift to a lighter rod. This is really a 'site specific' rod, not one for general use.

But to your (rod-s). What was you lining for these beasties?
Fred

kush
01-15-2002, 09:14 PM
Fred,

Finding the right line was a real chore. Getting something with a long enough belly was the trick. To shorten the long story it was Derek Brown who took the reel off his Sage 10160 with his SpeyDriver that finally loaded the big rod properly. Derek gave Dana the specs and he built me one and voila - the beast was armed. The great thing is that now that I'm not using the 18' very often is that the line is also a perfect match for my 10160 as well.

fredaevans
01-15-2002, 10:30 PM
Two shots with the rod today loaded with the 10-11 RIO Acltr tri tip. Skip a hinged line with this puppy. Timing not exactly on and the cast will fold up at 45 feet. Slow the timing down and I was running the head and 5 or 6 coils of line with the rod (plus 15-17
'ish feet of leader and two wted tube flys). Get the timing down and consistently hit 33- 38 yards of line off the rod (math is about 100 to 114 feet). Thing I noticed (second excuse to be out of the office) was the close nature of the first gathering guide, seems far too close to shoot line. Will rig rod passing this one up and see how it goes; good and I'll have the loop removed and re-glazed.

A cannon with this line; looking forward to trying the WC 10-11-12.
fe

fisshman26
01-15-2002, 11:29 PM
I would have to side with Kush on this one. This rod is made for a long taper line and just because it is longer will not mean that you can throw a longer line with a windcutter because you have no belly to work with and the windcutter really is a short stroke line which would be a hard feat with a rod this long and dare I say slow (but powerfull). But have fun experimenting with whatever you decide, thats whats so fun about the spey!

fisshman26
01-15-2002, 11:30 PM
I ment the longer rod! not the longer line.

kush
01-16-2002, 06:08 PM
I'll side with Bruce siding with me on this. Before I got the SpeyDriver the best line I came up with was the 10/11 Accelerator. I didn't think it had enough belly (or grains) to load the rod so I took a 15' piece of the level belly of a 10 wt DT and added it to the main belly of the Accelerator - amazingly it worked quite well! So I thought what the hell, if 15 feet worked - what about 30? So on went another 15' and "presto-chango" the rod loaded and this huge extended belly went shooting out into the running line! As Bruce says, the huge slow action rods have a unique casting stroke, looooonnng and slooooowwww... If you want to check out the scenery during your cast - no problem - you'll have plenty of time.

Dana and I discussed the possibility of a shooting head for the beastie and we both agree the WC is not a likely candidate. Instead, one of the Scandinavian-type heads in the 50-60' lengths might do the trick. However, my basic bias against stripping line (though it is not as strong as it once was) has kept us from pursuing the idea any further.

fredaevans
01-16-2002, 06:36 PM
Long and slooooow is the active phrase casting this rod. Suspect your 110% right that the WC won't be a good match but what the heck, have the line so nothing ventured nothing gained.

But you mentioned "scand. head' lines. Have seen this reference before but don't know what/who makes this type of line. The rod mod. is the Norway Speycaster #10 DT uSH. The "#10 DT" is suggestive of using a 10wt DT with the rod. But always open to options (read that 'new toys'). Can you direct me to a web site with info on the Scan. lines.
tnx
Fred

kush
01-17-2002, 07:09 PM
Fred,

I do not yet know where to get one of these Scandinavian heads. The one I have used was an Airflo prototype for a 10 wt that I fished on my 9140-3 and a Loop Yellow 14' 10wt. The line had a 57' head and it seemed to me the longer head was more enjoyable to cast than a WC, it seemed like a real line than a shooting head. As for when the production lines are due I don't know - Dana will have a better handle on this than I do.

fredaevans
01-17-2002, 11:04 PM
We have to get this guy a 'corporate' Airborne or UPS number so he can pass his 'toys' around to us less privlidged 'southern' Brethern.

:smokin:

The choice of the toy marks the Boy ... or something like that.:hehe:

pmflyfisher
01-18-2002, 07:00 AM
Fred,

I see there are also 19 and 20 footers used over in Europe.

Hal

fredaevans
01-18-2002, 04:56 PM
Hal. Joan's in a very good mood and I'm not going to spoil it.:rolleyes: At least not yet ..... No, the 18's big enough. Did have the folks at the Flyshop in Welches shoot me a Cortland 10/11 Spey DT for the rod. Will spool this up tonight and give it a go. (If you want something quick, these folks are faster than fast. Ordered the line at about 9am yesterday and they dropped the UPS box on my desk this morning; and they pay the shipping.)

The tri-tip 'loop connectors' (hinges) may be the problem with the 10/11 RIO causing a cast to fold up if your timings off more than a tad. A full DT line may solve the issue. Really don't care if I can cast 100+ feet as 95% of the fish arn't that far off any way. Three day holiday this weekend, and Joan's in Calif., so plenty of time to play and chase fish below the Grants Pass area. Nate B and I'll head out at zero dark 30 tomorrow and see if we can scare up some action.
Fred

pmflyfisher
01-18-2002, 07:48 PM
Fred,

Agree 18 ' is more than enough, was surprised to see they had them longer. I will be seeking my spey rod in other the wifes radar now that the real estate sales are up. She won't even know it happened.

How do you like the Daiwa, I mean the quality of the rod in general. Been looking them over on the web. Never knew Daiwa made decent fly rods, at least they are not here in the states.
Looks like Daiwa UK makes a good rod for a good price.

Give those michigan flies an honest test, you may have to tie some weighted ones though. Been tying up some new michigan nymph patterns will send a few when I have perfected for the Rogue field test.

Can't imagine how fast two weighted tube flies sink. Are you hitting bottom with them and how is the snag rate ?

Hal

kush
01-18-2002, 08:04 PM
Diawa makes top of the line quality rods in the UK. I have cast a couple of them, a 15 and a 16' model. Both were serious cannons! They are a bit heavy, by Sage standards, but are very much in line with UK styles. They are very well made and I gather are considered to be something of a benchmark especially in the bigger rods. If you check on Dana's site I do believe he has a review on at least one of these rods.

fredaevans
01-18-2002, 09:03 PM
Components are all top end best I can tell. Heavy, yes, but you'd expect that with a rod this long and in a Euro config. Loaded the rod with a DT 10-11 Cortland Spey this evening and will give (I'm repeating myself here) this a go with a long 'brick' tube fly (singular) tomorrow. :smokin: