Flatwing style Fly [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Flatwing style Fly


FishHawk
01-09-2002, 04:44 AM
What do you think of the flat wing style fly? I have used them twice last season with good results. Wonder if anyone is using this type of fly on a regular basis.
FishHawk:smokin:

Roop
01-09-2002, 07:18 AM
Look for responses from Adrian, Capt. Todd Murphy, the Penguin.

Both Capt. Todd Murphy & Bob Pink will be conducting tying lessons on this style at the Marlborough show in the FFF booth.

rel1
01-10-2002, 01:19 PM
I use the flatwing style most of the time unless I ' m trying to imitate a p'bunker( then I use a deceiver style). I like the way the flatwing casts plus the fact that I don't have to strip it to achieve action in the fly. Just my .02.

Adrian
01-10-2002, 01:30 PM
I luv em! Started playing around with them this past season and found that they turn a stripers head on the flats like nothing else - just my experience over about ten or so trips. They also worked in the Rips.

The flatwing style is actually pretty ancient. There are many old Atlantic Salmon patterns based on this style - (Dee patterns I think) although the wings were tied in at the head. When the proportions are right the "wiggle" has to be seen to be believed and all can be achieved with natural materials - pretty cool:smokin:

Its also nice to be able to create something in excess of 12 inches in length which can still be comfortably cast with a 9wt.:D

Just my 02c

Penguin
01-10-2002, 02:22 PM
...Great fly that has motion even when it's dead drifting...
Last year I had the pleasure to attend a very informative Ken Abrames show-'n-tell at Capt Dave Bitters' Baymen in Duxbury. I took what I learned and had good success throughout the summer.
Fun fly to tye and it works too. Less filling! Tastes great!
Capt Dave is hosting another gathering soon and I'm planning on a "refresher" for graduate credit...and good friend Jim Bender at Lower Forty in Worcester is hosting Kenny soon as well.
Ken is a wealth of information and leads a thought provoking "out of the box" presentation.
If you can't make the shows (Marlboro/Wilmington) or make a seminar...pick up a copy of "Perfect Fish" for a step-by-step...well worth the price of admission!
Cheers!

juro
01-10-2002, 03:24 PM
Actually the Dee style of atlantic salmon fly is similar to the Spey style but using quill segments like swan instead of mallard or matched hackle tips like Syd Glasso. A classic example of the Dee style of fly is the Ackroyd.

Another flatwing that's been around for years is the razzle dazzle, a flatwing striper fly tied in a combination of sand eel, mackeral, herring, and other tasty flavors to tickle a striped bass' fancy.

Click here for a BEAUTIFUL flatwing tied by Bob Pink Jr...

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1680

Adrian
01-10-2002, 03:30 PM
I must rummage through some of my old gear. Somewhere I have some old Salmon Flies, one of which is a large double "Iron" tied flatwing style. I'll post a pic and see if anyone can come up with a name for it - maybe one for the Classic Atlantic forum.:)

Joe Cordiero was working his magic at the Fly show in Danbury this past week-end. His enthusiasm is infectious as in:

"....now, warm up your finger and thumb like this and pinch down like this...Now, YOU are the owner every single fiber and hair on that hook!"

And you better believe it!

JimW
01-10-2002, 03:48 PM
I like the flatwings. I had some good luck with very small ones 1.5-2" in Rays fly colors to imitate silversides. I also tied some of those monster sided razzle dazzles but that was after the large herring had dropped so the jury is still out on those. I've had some success with the rhody flatwing. My favorite so far is one that Todd showed me, I'll call it a flatwing deep sand eel for lack of another name.

Penguin
01-10-2002, 04:08 PM
...Joe Cordiero is going to do a class at Baymen soon with limited seating...He's a pleasure to watch and a master at what he does!

jared
01-10-2002, 05:18 PM
..."baymen"....better use ALL CAPS when you say that.....

:hehe:

jeffg
01-11-2002, 10:31 AM
I've been using flat-wings in the Harbor the last few seasons, especially early in the season when there are small 2-4" herring around, with very good results. I use a Ray's fly color scheme or switch to chartreuse if the water is still murky. As others have mentioned, I tend to favor it as a dead drifting pattern because it imparts action without much movement (good for when the water's still really cold and the fish are hungry but slightly lethargic). I think I still prefer a deceiver style pattern for lots of active stripping.

I also still switch to bigger, full-dressed deceiver patterns for the really big herring (8"+), but mostly out of habit. I suspect a big ol' Razzle Dazzle would be killer and may have to give one a shot this May come to think of it...

Penguin
01-11-2002, 11:27 AM
...Joe Cordiero will be tying flatwings for "The Saltwater Edge" at Marlboro and Wilmington... Joe is a MUST SEE!!!
He is a master at what he does and a pleasure to watch! One session with him and you're on your way to flatwing city!
'See you at the show...

Adrian
01-11-2002, 12:02 PM
Flatwing salmon pattern - about 30 years old but the pattern looks older. Not sure of the name - the wing looks to be two slips of Turkey tied flat over the back. The body is palmered with a type of marabou.

RayStachelek
01-11-2002, 02:53 PM
Been tying flatwings for the last two weeks. Can't imagine why they wouldn't be a staple in everyone's fly box. Last year they ruled in conditions where fish were down deep in structure. Tie 'em with side saddles before you start layering the flat feathers. This will give you a fuller profile from the side, and will also contain all the flashabou and other mylar you might add. bucktail.

http://www.fishingworks.com/Images/ImagesUser/18604/airbrushbaysmelt566.JPG
Here's an example of the most popular pattern we use. It might not match Bob Pinks high standard of tying, but I'll keep trying. :D

JimW
01-11-2002, 04:17 PM
Ray, nice looking fly. It just swam right off my screen.......

striblue
01-11-2002, 06:22 PM
Bob and Ray.. unless there are directions in the fly archive...can you guys supply a detailed recipe for a hopelessly compulsive fly tyer.

Bob Pink
01-11-2002, 09:20 PM
John,
The best written description is in "A Perfect Fish" if you have that in your tying library. Jeff's board had a step-by-step which does a nice job of indentifying the key components http://www.flyfishsaltwaters.com/rhody_flat_wing.htm
As with all patterns, you blend techniques according to your knowledge of the situation you expect to use the pattern in. Bottom line; you can tie the flatwing to imitate everything from a bunker to a sandeel. Just match the amounts and placement of the materials to suit the dimensions you need.
Ray's photo looks real nice in it's use of color and clearly shows one of the key components, the 'fluff' he left at the base of the hackles. This makes the body fuller (as he states) and lively even when the fly is just drifting. Ray also shows how experience creates adaptation, the classic flatwing would have a natural 'eye' typically of jungle cock. Those small prismatic or 3-D epoxy eyes with a small dap of epoxy to round off the head make for a very neat head and a very durable fly. I particularly like that eye treatment on flatwing sandeels
Anyway, I ramble... If you can wait 'till Friday let's tie up a bunch together!
And mega kudos have to go to Joe Corderio who does an outstanding job with the flatwing and is an excellent teacher.:hehe:

RayStachelek
01-11-2002, 09:57 PM
John -

If I had one wish to improve the fly archive board, that one wish would be a dedicated section to just a photo of a fly with its tying sequence. All comments would be removed from the tread. Photos of the tying sequences wouldn't be needed. The recipe would do that. Now, when someone needed a reference to a fly, they could find it really easily. Imagine the popery of designs from different tier's who have confidence fishing them. That would be quite a journal. Maybe publish a short book to raise funds for the site.

Bob -

You're keen on the observations. Remember the side board saddle hackles. There important too. They do fill out the fly and reduce the movement of the mylar from snagging. The eyes are prismatic as you noted. They can be conveniently place and tied with mono thread. That thread you know disappears. I never use epoxy though. I tie them by the two dozen. By the time I use them up, the heads are yellow. They still fish great. Now I use "Hard as Nails polish." Apply two coats.

Over time you tend to tweak certain patterns. Little Changes are always evident in many of my standard patterns. Like snowflakes each batch is slightly different. Hopefully each fly in the same batch is the same. That's what makes a good tyer like yourself and many others on this board stand out. When you see a display photo of your groups of flies, they look like they were placed together using a micrometer.

Jim -

This pic was taken with the backdrop about 18 inches away using only artificial light. I would drop the fly hundreds of time to finally frame the fly correctly. :D

striblue
01-11-2002, 10:06 PM
Bob and Ray... thanks for the direction... I will work on this in the next week... but I will also observe you both at the flying tables this weekend.. thanks again.

sean
01-15-2002, 06:59 PM
Ray,

Your points about the fly archives are well taken. I am planning on revamping this on the site and taking them out of the archives and giving them there own space.

My vision would be to post your pattern to the fly pattern section of the site and then a post be sent to the "archive" board saying "Check out the new pattern submitted by so and so". Then if people wanted to discuss the pattern it would be on the board but separate from the actual fly.

I think a standardized form would be a much better way to get all the info one would need about how to tie a pattern and keep everyone on the same page. Look for something on the next few months.

Also I noticed you mention using hard as nails from the heads on your flies instead of epoxy. Do you not have problems with the stuff just soaking into the wraps and not really building up? I am really interested in using other methods than epoxy for heads on baitfish patterns.

-sean

RayStachelek
01-16-2002, 09:14 PM
Sean -

The archive fly page could be as simple as a list of materials, photo, and tying sequence. Or as complicated as a break down of all fly parts with materials, and bulleted step by step tying sequence. Either way would be effective. The main concern, is to view the many favorite pattern of our viewers. Up till now, Fly swaps used to be the main mechanisms of trading ideas. Tyer's will able to select the patterns that best suit their needs. Create a nice little journal of some great recipes.

With Hard as Nails I never really had any problems with head coating. Always apply two coats and space them apart. I wouldn't think there would be any problems unless you use a high waxed thread.