Favorite striper hook [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Favorite striper hook


juro
02-11-2001, 10:48 AM
I noticed people have a range of hook preferences with all the recent tying events.

My favorite for most all-around patterns is the Tiemco 811s. Daichi has a similar design whose # escapes me now. The 800s is a shorter, stouter hook. I prefer the lighter wire (which is not that much lighter) and has a little more of an offset "cup" in the crotch of the gap. This seems to help since many of us fish barbless. Top size 811s are hard to find but come in sizes up to 4/0.

For long shank patterns, I prefer the Tiemco 911s although the wire diam is heavier.

I tried the perfect bend hooks like those from Gamakatsu. I liked how light they were and how strong they are for the weight and diameter. The points scream sharp. For some reason I experienced a number of lost fish with them and went back to the 811s. Gami makes a large variety of hooks like the Trey Combs hooks.

I heard Daichi makes the Alec Jackson spey hooks on another topic but I digress.

I recently bought the daichi circles after reading experiments people did with bait. They were pricey but I want to keep the circle fly experiments going this season.

Just curious what people use out there...

RayStachelek
02-11-2001, 12:28 PM
Being a loyal Tiemco hook user and tier of their products I use them exclusively. As Juro mentioned that their 811 and 911 series are excellent quality hooks. They are extremely sharp for hook sets. They don't seem to dull as much as grounded wedge shaped hooks when they hit rocks or sand. There's is more conical in shape.

I however, had a few failures with their 811 series hook. They are light weight in nature and the failure points seem to be in the bend area. Maybe tempered to much.

Tiemco has come out with a new 600 SP hook, that is heavier but shorter than the current 811's I have not fished with them yet, but I do have some on order. Being heavier in the bend area will keep larger flies from flipping on their sides. The shortness of the hook shank will also keep them from fouling as much.

At the Marlborough show I talked to the Varivas hook representative about their new entry. They seem very similiar to the new Tiemco 600 SP series. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made by the same manufacturing company. Both Varivas and Tiemco are imported from Japan.

I have order a bunch of Varivas hooks also. Come spring I will put both them to test.

Both the Varivas and Tiemco's 600 SP series have there barbs bent to align with the eyes of the hook. Look more like a circle hook without the extreme bend in the point.

Will let you know after water testing the results of comparison.

Beware! they are both expensive. Some hook sizes average close to a dollar apiece.

juro
02-11-2001, 12:46 PM
Hi Ray - when you had failed 811s hooks, do you mean from rocks vs fish? I have never had a failed hook of this model/make from a fish although I've failed everything possible on a snag. The tippet always gives way before the hook could suffer any damage for me.

The lighter wire (by SWFF stds) let's me cast them with much greater ease due to their light weight even in 3/0 and 4/0 sizes. I tend to use material distribution for stability rather than hook design, the eye/shaft/bend is always heavier than the point... although it's worth some thought now that you mention it.

The TMC 600 / Varivas both sound interesting. I used to snell hooks on offset eye gamakatsu's (Trey Combs style hooks) in-line for coho salmon tube flies and having the point (I assume you mean point rather than barb, right?) inline with the eye makes sense.

They have been making the bent shaft in-line hooks for a while now, but I am sure you are referring to something without the shaft bend, correct?

RayStachelek
02-12-2001, 06:18 AM
Juro -

My two hook failures with the Tiemco 811 series happen at the start of the bent just after the straight shank of the hook. In either case, the fly was never snagged on structure or any other debris.
In this situation, if it wasn't a casehardening metallurgy problem, than the only possibility left would be a fatigue failure.

Fisher's don't realize it that when you fish Clouser type flies, the eyes themselves gives the fish some leverage. Now they have a fulcrum point to use to their advantage.

juro
02-12-2001, 08:43 AM
Thanks for the reply, I could see how that would happen.

Interesting point that the eyes give leverage, I see how it could stand between your rod tension and the bend of the hook during the set if they are too large.

That's one of the reasons I use large hooks, large flies and the smallest eyes possible... except out on the RIP.

I should show you the jelly belly which is an experiment in using tiny eyes and a chrome-lined jelly wrap to provide ballast instead of the eyes alone.

RayStachelek
02-12-2001, 03:38 PM
Hook and fly failure with hour shaped eyes are quite common. If your hour shape eyes are cast metal, many time a fish can snap it off by twisting it against their jaw cartilage during the fight.

If your hour shaped eyes are machined, the metal is much stronger. In this case, torque is apply to the bend of the hook causing that to fail.

These new shorter hooks like the Varivas and Tiemco 600 SP are going to be great for flies that are tied mainly on the top portion of the sank. The success flies tied with unfair advantage material come to mind.
With larger profile type of flies, like you said Juro, you won't have to counterbalance your design. Of course there will be added weight with these new hooks. Flies will have a keel effect and you won't have to apply lead as much any more to stabilize them.

FredA
02-12-2001, 07:03 PM
Until I develop some fly tying competence I,m using the Mustad 3407's and 34007's.

Until I develop some hook setting competence (generally fish catch me) I think I'll lean toward the carbon steel 3407's (take and hold a sharper edge/point).

Fred A.

FrenchCreek
02-12-2001, 09:45 PM
I don't get a lot of SW hooks up here in Prairie Land. I mostly use Gamakatsu Swash Eye 2/0, 3/0 and occasionally 4/0 for my pike flies. Mostly because of the needle point and extreme sharpness.
Any thougths about using these for SW?
They cost me about $0.50Cdn each,about $0.35US
What is the price range when you folks say a hook is expensive? by comparison to what other type hooks?
Has anyone thought of creating a sort of hook comparison chart with price/quality/sharpness/durability etc?

I plan to tie a fury (or flurry)of SW flies for my upcoming trip so keep the thread going. I'm learning lots...

FishHawk
02-13-2001, 04:31 AM
I use Mustad 34007 and Eagle Claw 254SS and have not had a problem with either hook. Both hooks sharpen well. FishHawk

tomd
02-13-2001, 07:44 AM
I like those new Vivaris 940 very short shank, and a very wide gap. almost like a modified circle hook. great for small hi-ties.otherwise I'd agree with Fishhawk, and go for the Eagle Claw 254ss, 253s. I don't use many long shank, so I just go for the 34011 mustads. Tom d

striblue
02-13-2001, 09:25 AM
Having just started tying flies, I don't have the foggiest . But I know the manufacturer is Mustad or Eagle claw.. 3,2,1 1/0,2/0, 3/0 and 4/0.

JimW
02-14-2001, 06:46 PM
I like the Eagle claw 254SS, the short shank doesn't foul as easily and it is a strong hook. For small flies I like the Daiichi 2456 in a #2 or #4 these things are super sharp.

labrax
02-14-2001, 07:29 PM
I LOVE the Eagle Claw 254SS - Rich in Marlboro carries them in the bigger sizes, however, I am very interested in getting them in some smaller sizes (2,4 even 6). Does anyone know of a source for these smaller sizes? They do not have a very reflective surface, are relatively sharp (although not as sharp out of the package as the Tiemcos), have a large eye, and seem light. The shank is short and the gape relatively large - comparible to the Tiemcos.

I was looking for 6's and 4's this weekend - and a comparison of the Tiemcos (811's)and the Mustads (34007) in both sizes left me with the impression that a size 4 Tiemco is like a size 2 Mustad. Kind of made me wonder when you look at a hook recipe if they take that into account.

Would love to hear if anyone knows of a supplier of the Eagle Claw 254SS in the smaller sizes.

Thanks,

Pete

marvin
02-15-2001, 08:13 AM
Bear's Den in Taunton had the 254SS in 4s and up on Tuesday.......

Adrian
02-15-2001, 11:59 AM
I really like the Gamakatsu Trey Combs hooks - real sharp, real strong, real expensive, but, generally, I think you get what you pay for. The Japanese really do know how to produce high quality steel!

I picked up some Owner circle hooks the other day which I plan to use on big streamers for Trevally in the upcoming Christmas Island trip. May try some small ones for bonefish flies. It's the ideal environment to experiment!

grego
02-15-2001, 03:35 PM
Pete,

Stop looking for smaller 254SS! just visited Eagle Claw's wibe-site, smallest is #2. See:

<a href="http://www.eagleclaw.com/Pages/hooks10d.html" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://www.eagleclaw.com/Pages/hooks10d.html</a><!--auto-->

tomd
02-15-2001, 05:55 PM
Adrian, I've been warned to stay away from circle hooks for any fly that is not swallowed(like crab flies), because they tend to slide right out of the fish's mouth. they were developed for bait fishing, so that when the fish takes off, the hook will slide up out of the gut and anchor in the corner of the fish's mouth. I wouldn't want you to miss any fish on a trip like that!!! Tom D

saltydog
02-15-2001, 06:53 PM
LABRAX Ill have 4-6 this comming week. Had to get them from another source, for some reason everyone is dropping them, just like Sci-Angler, monocore clear(slime line)is no longer being sold! BUT Im getting them from E.C. DIRECT. "GOOD LUCK GOOD TYIN"

labrax
02-15-2001, 09:09 PM
Saltydog,

Thank you. I'll check in and see if they arrived on the weekend - if their not in then I'll wait for the following weekend.

Have a good night,

Pete

juro
02-17-2001, 10:44 PM
I haven't yet seen these new hooks w/ point more in line with the eye, but I am familiar with the Gamakatsu SC-15 wide gape nickel plated which have that profile. These have been around for at least a year if not two. They are popular for tying flies where the material flares off the dorsal side of the fly instead of being in-line. I've also used them for epoxy headed sand eels occasionally as well.

Curious to know if the new hooks mentioned are a similar profile as the SC-15 Gami?