Two-handed rod program [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Two-handed rod program

01-27-2000, 12:49 PM
(re-posted from stripers etc)

In order to obtain blanks for this project, I have been thinking of ways to go. Here's a proposal for those coastal flyfishermen out there...

For a rental fee of $5 / day, max $20 per 7 day week - we offer the use of the two-handed rods that we will build. The advance payment will be directly and wholly applied toward obtaining materials for these rods. Labor has been donated by members, and any materials not accounted for by pre-rental agreements will be donated by me and others who wish to do so.

<font size="1">In the event that the pre-paid rental fees would exceed the amount to be used for development of these rods, the fees iwll be averaged down over the available rental period through the season and refunded. In other words, in the unlikely event we get more money that we need, I will average the rental days down to refund people the difference of a few bucks to be fair.</font><!--1-->

Anyone interested? I will be the first renter, 1 week at $20.

Also - once the program is fully paid for the rods belong to the forum members, and they will be available for use free of charge for the asking once everybody is credited for their initial contribution.


01-27-2000, 01:17 PM
Additional note: Member and potential manufacturer donations are also in the works, reducing the overall cost model for this program. I just thought I would see what a sawbuck or two could do for members.

Let me know what you think!

01-27-2000, 04:36 PM

I have built 10 conventional fly rods so far, and would be willing to lend a hand with some part of the project. I'd be very interested in learning the two handed cast and would also like to rent a rod for a week (for $20), so I guess you can count me in.

Free time is pretty short (school, job search), so I'd like to know how you see the building of the rods taking place? Would we all meet together, sort of like the tying clave that SSully has so generously setup and just go for it? Maybe this was covered already and I missed it. If it was, could someone could email the details and fill me in- (it was the first day of class and I'm a little burned at the moment



01-27-2000, 05:00 PM
Pete -

Thanks for your involvement. We would be building this beast down at the Rod Builder's Workshop with some of the best tools and the best hands... including yours. Aubert Smith, aka "Smitty" is one of the best around the east coast. He is located in Kingston MA just off the highway. He is also a Sage Pro, so if we go w/ Sage's Traditional Overhead blanks we can get it at pro price. This is not to say he won't work with whomever is involved, he will. He is just that type of guy.

Well, so far we have $40 in the can. Beats the heck out of nuthin! And we don't yet even know how much we'll need in the event other donations come thru. I know one thing - we need more than $40, but there's plenty of time at this point.

Let's discuss the program and post our plans as we go. So far, I have met with Smitty to open the topic. He graciously agreed to donate his expertise to the cause. We agreed that the first step was to acquire blanks which we will mock-up with cork tape and temp guides. We may have to cut certain blank, we may not. This decision will follow analysis of available options.

Once we are confident that a configuration is worthwhile, it will be wrapped formally and guide / seat selection will be made. It will be a professionally finished, aesthetically beautiful rod knowing Smitty and others like you who have built many rods.

One of the key points is that this is not a Spey rod. It is a specialized two-handed surf machine. I will probably fund the line research out of pocket unless we get enough support. I have a few lines that I know cast well in this fashion already.

In any case, we should probably post an operating plan for people to review, to feel comfortable about buying into.


01-27-2000, 07:22 PM
If the rod rental comes with at least 5 minutes of instruction in how to use other than a one-handed rod, I'm in. Checks to you at the shop?


01-27-2000, 10:18 PM

To quote you. "One of the key points is that this is not a Spey rod. It is a specialized two-handed surf machine."

I have to plead ignorance on the difference. When you have time please explain this. Twenty bucks is short money so I don't have a problem with that you can count me in. My main issue as I expressed before is time. So I can't commit to the building process at this time.

Hopefully we can have the chance to fish "these machines" together.

01-27-2000, 10:40 PM
Absolutely! Anyone who rents it for a week gets at least a morning or evening of chucking it with me and/or others who have the knack. It won't take long to get evangelists to show others, and so on, and so forth... Remember how Jay Horton felt after the outer limits clave, and after talking to Lefty?

In fact this has a ceremonial sound to it. Don't forget that Tony Stetzko has told us he's interested in trying this thing out too. Maybe my good freind Sean Fields can shuttle us out to the Orleans side of Nauset Inlet one evening and we'll make an evening of it.

To answer the question - rentals come with instruction from myself or another evengelist like myself. Believe me, it's the easiest cast you'll ever make.

Also anytime we go down to Smitty's, you're all welcome to come on down. Once the wraps are on it'll be time to throw lines on them and tune. If you can't make it to the rod building sessions, no worries! Some who are avid rod builders wouldn't miss this part. Others will learn from this project and become rod builders. Some just want to try the rod! Takes all types.

Thanks for getting involved, let's keep the pace up and I will start tracking this officially.


01-28-2000, 07:35 AM

Thanks for the reply back so quickly. I would not wnat to miss going down and seeing Mr. Smith and his shop and seeing how he works his craft, for me that would be almost as exciting as learning this new fishing technique. Definitely count me in, as Marvin asked - should we send checks to the shop?


01-28-2000, 08:06 AM
Tom has been good enough to let us use the shop address for the fly swap, I think we might use Smitty's shop this time. Let me ask him about it and I will let you know.

Another option is to set up an account, but that would still require people to do the banking stuff. Let me think this one over a little.

Ideas are welcome!

01-28-2000, 09:17 AM
Do you have any idea as to when the wrapping will happen? I figure I've got fly tying down pretty well at this point, but would love to watch somebody else throw guides on a rod before I screw up my own blank


01-28-2000, 09:48 AM
I'm in. $20 for a shot seems like a great deal. I'll volunteer to run a couple of early sharking trips to Cox's ledge or somesuch where we can all see how they cast and pull on fish. I'm game to go out as early as reasonable , but June 1 is probably the earliest realistic date.

Nice thing about early sharks, if they won't eat, you can just clip a fly on to their dorsal fins.

01-28-2000, 03:17 PM
To capture the duplicate thread's responses before I move the topic...

(1) timwatts wrote:

Juro I would like to try one out. I have been using a st croix 11 weight spey for a couple years now. It's a bit heavy and is not much fun with smaller fish, have been thinking about getting perhaps a nine weight.I do enjoy casting this type of rod and may actually take the time to learn to cast the traditional way with it this year. But it is so easy to haul back overhead and toss 90 feet of line that I never get around to practicing.



Hey TIM!

Great to see you made it. I have a 9wt 12.6' sage, european overhead - pretty close to the need but would still like a little shorter, little heavier more focused two-hander for the big surf. The three other Spey rods don't see too much salt, they are for steelies out west.

In any case, your experience makes your involvement all the more critical! Very glad to have your insights on the matter.

I am going to move the duplicate of this thread from the main forum to here. That will wipe out your initial reply as well as this one I'm writing now, but there was a pretty long string of replies on the other thread and we should have it represented in stripers and coastal gamefish.

Look for the changes later on today, you might post any further comments on the other one.

Sorry about the mix-up, in the future I will not duplicate threads

Look forward to your valuable insights in this forum. We will be meeting at Smitty's shop to build the rods over the next several weeks. You are welcome to attend all phases of this.

glad to have you in the forum,

(2) ronl wrote:

Juro- Sounds like a good idea especially for some one who is interested but scared off by the big price tag of these rods. Would there be some instruction for those who don't have a clue about casting the ultimate long wand? rel

01-28-2000, 03:23 PM
Ron -

Yes instruction will be included in the rental program. It looks like Tim Watts will also be an experienced instructor, and I expect as easy as it is (no double hauling or false casting) the instruction will be fairly simple. The concerns are to cultivate new two handed line holding skills, which will become automatic quickly and are a lot easier than some of the other concepts mentioned.

One of the high priorities of this is to come up with very affordable options for the big surf sticks.

Glad to have you on board!

01-29-2000, 09:50 AM
Juro- I'll keep checking in and i'm interested.rel

01-29-2000, 06:11 PM
I and my 20 are in. Ever since the Outer Limits clave my brother and I have been dreaming about two handed surf rods. It looks like it will be my next rod purchase or by the sounds of it I may have to take up rod building.

Tight Lines,


01-31-2000, 07:07 PM
Looking Good! We're in for around $120 toward materials. Hopefully we can get it a little higher so I can minimize my out-of-pocket investment for the balance.

I am going to tally and start tracking this in earnest. When I get responses from rod companies we will know what our initial start-up investment level will need to be.

Thanks for all your support and hope we can get this done in time before the herring arrive!

02-02-2000, 04:23 PM
Yes, I would like to try out the rod(s) you come up with. Count me in for $20. How do I make payment? I hope you choose a rod not too long; prefer under 12 feet. I had a 14 foot Sage at one time. Very hard to land fish because of all that rod hanging out there.

02-02-2000, 04:34 PM
Dick -

Thanks and welcome to the forum! Yeah, I agree there is a big misconception about the super long rods. You and I know all about that though. Funny you say 12', I have a 12'6" 9wt euro overhand Sage and it's not too long. I would prefer an 11'6" or maybe even an 11'. I hope to eventually build a 10' as well to find out how two-handers perform at "shorter" lengths. I can imagine it will be a function of rod taper design over it's shorter length in that case. For a lighter design, the RPL 10x10 might be one to play around with. It's discontinued and you'd think you could find a blank cheap.

Looking forward to casting these with you!


02-03-2000, 06:04 AM
Juro do you have an address I can send a check to? You have shaken me out of my winter doldrums with talk of this project. It took me until January to put striper fishing to sleep now a month later and two months two early I am awake again. Can't shake the visions that big rod shooting a sweat sock sized herring fly into the wash of the Cuttyhunk boulders. I am not sure whether I sould thank you or call you a worm dunker.


02-03-2000, 06:28 AM
Sorry I've not been more clear on the logistics. I hope to be providing you with that address and a whole lot more detail after I talk to Smitty today. Apparently, our efforts have attracted some visitors to his shop yesterday and he says he has some news for me when I call. Wonder if he's awake now...

For now, I appreciate your interest and will let you hold on to your money a little longer.

02-05-2000, 07:51 AM
Well, look who finally found his way in to the forum.....

Obviously, I'm in. Post us some details soon.



02-08-2000, 10:32 AM
Welcome Jay!

Jim Whelan is also in for a week per his email.

Now... let the inaugural <font color="00a0a0"><b>Testclave I</b></font><!--color--> plans commence! Clambake and beerfest on the beach?

02-08-2000, 11:36 AM

Am I too late?

I'd love to join the party.


02-08-2000, 01:06 PM
Yer IN! Thanks for the support. We're waiting for confirmation on some exiting news on this project.

Smitty has agreed to accept checks at this rod building / fly shop. I'll post the details shortly.

thanks all,

02-08-2000, 04:52 PM

Since I usually stop in to Smitty's every Friday night, I'd be willing to help out as needed.


02-08-2000, 06:44 PM
I am interested in this whole two handed rod project. I am a novice fly fisher but I would like to explore different casting methods, this qualifies. I live in Plymouth and have a rod made by Smitty, the workmanship is fantastic. I have no experience in rod building but I sure would like to have a look at the process. Rod builders workshop is only a few miles away from Plymouth beach (my stomping grounds) Perhaps that would be a good area for training and testing. Plymouth beach doesn't have much surf but at low tide there is plenty of room for a backcast and it's a scenic spot. My brother in law and I have beach permits so getting 6 or 8 people out there shouldn't be a problem assuming the plover don't completely shut it down.

I'm in for $20.

Jim Whalen