More Clouser Questions [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: More Clouser Questions


Mike Oliver
04-23-2011, 03:40 PM
Guys,

Currently I am tying my Clousers as prescribed by Bob Clouser with the underbody tied on the underside of the hook usually white. I have also started tying my Clousers with all the materials tied on the top side of the hook.

Does it make any difference in terms of of one tying being more effective than the other in terms of more takes. I do find at least that I can blend the materials better if tye only on the top side of the hook.

Any opinions on this please ?

Mike

JonC
04-23-2011, 04:17 PM
Mike,
I think you'll find tying all the material on top will tend not to track with the hook point up, having the wing tied on the bottom so that it is pointed up past the point is essential in my experience.
Jon

hnl
04-23-2011, 04:32 PM
Jon,
I am pretty sure that when Mike says tied on top he means on top when the hook is riding hook-point up.
Mike I tie all of my clousers with BT on gape side - hook up.
Herb

Paxton
04-23-2011, 04:49 PM
Everyone ties them a bit different and my guess is that all work, esp in the Spring.
re white on botton....white isn't a must....as long as the coloration goes from darker (on top) to lighter. For example my flats clousers are all brownish/light tan...dark to light blend.
If the synthetic fibers have a lot of body in them....I like tie the bottom and mid portion tight to the top and bottom of the whole shank........then put a loose top layer on top, figure eighting around the barbell eyes....this method at least for me, results in less snarling of the fibers.
Alternatively, natural materials and or well behaved synthetics..I tie 3/4 of the material on top with hook in up position/barbell eyes under.
Placing the barbell eyes 1/3 down the shank also gives a nice natural long snout look and I find, reduces the "boink effect" as it balances the fly.
Just my O2...like I said..I don't feel that there are any hard and fast rules....I have tied them different ways and when fish are feeding, they have never looked closely on the technique used :hihi:

JonC
04-23-2011, 05:32 PM
Hard to tell which way is up I guess, especially when you're upside-down.
Jon

Mike Oliver
04-23-2011, 06:32 PM
Thanks Fred and JonC. I just knew the top and bottom would get skewed. I use my top and bottom relative to where the hook point is fishing as it should in the up position. Herb was spot on but then he knows how my crazed mind works.

Mike

CSJ60
04-24-2011, 08:44 PM
Hey Mike,


Don't sweat it, all this fly talk is so over rated. Ty'em the way you like. The eyes do make the hook ride up. We fished on N. Monomoy a few years back, remember the fog... I am hoping to take first two weeks of June off or 2nd and 3rd week off so I will be fishing most days.

Craig

juro
04-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Mike -
The buoyancy of the material is also a factor. Bucktail for instance is more buoyant than synthetics and if you tie a lot of it on what would be the underside (in use) then it will tend to counter the weight especially when the preference is for smaller eyes.

Craig -
Over-rated perhaps to you, but as I've watched you learn a tremendous amount from newbie to become a force to be reckoned with on the flats I think those who don't have the benefit of constant field trials would benefit from "flytalk".

At least I'd like to think so, what with all the time and money that the 11 years of operation has involved.

Bottom line - the fish will tell you what they like. Experiment as much as possible and if that's not possible we'll always try to help.

striblue
04-25-2011, 07:23 AM
Craig does not need to be lectured by you like that. He had his opinion which I also agree with..I leave you too your sycophants. Remove my name as a moderator of this board effective immediately. This is my last post.

juro
04-25-2011, 07:37 AM
John,

I was simply pointing out the irony in calling the very forum you're posting on over-rated (essentially useless) especially for questions from those without the luxury of constant study.

I believe you have taken it in the wrong light because of your position on other unrelated site politic issues you've voiced, which I am not inclined to engage in.

On point - I have benefited immensely from others on the internet with respect to bonefishing, tarpon and/or other fisheries where I am unable to accumulate as much hands on time as needed to make my annual visits count.

Mike - I apologize for this thread going off the rails and look forward to fishing with you on your visit.

juro
04-25-2011, 08:12 AM
Craig -

I think I may have taken your message the wrong way on a quick read. Also I see how my reply could come across the wrong way but I am serious about the 'force to be reckoned with' part, you a natural out there.

Rather than delete my reply I thought it would be best to follow up. Wow I really need this fishing trip next week :Eyecrazy:

juro
04-25-2011, 09:21 AM
Hence the response, and why I left it intact. (Read to the end)

Walk a mile in my shoes, friends.

Mike Oliver
04-25-2011, 04:16 PM
Hey Mike,


Don't sweat it, all this fly talk is so over rated. Ty'em the way you like. The eyes do make the hook ride up. We fished on N. Monomoy a few years back, remember the fog... I am hoping to take first two weeks of June off or 2nd and 3rd week off so I will be fishing most days.

Craig


Craig,

I hear you and largely agree more BS in this game than even a giant can shake a fist at.

But I have learned for instance when Buzzer fishing for Trout in very large lakes that very small changes to my Buzzer design can result in many more fish. Say from 5 fish a day to 30+. This is mainly due to different weights hooks and density of dressing which effect sink speed and can be balanced with cross winds to get speed of presentation right. Many poo poo the level of detail that I go to. I was tought this by another Old Boy. Strange thing is the Guys that can't be bothered and take the P out of us catch way less. Now I am in a position to Trout fish up to 3 times a week for 15 hours a session so I get the opportunity to look see and learn. I do not have same facility with Stripers hence sometimes I am sure I ask questions which must drive experienced Striper Fishers to raise their eys and utter the words " Give me strength"
Since posting I have been tying like crazy using different sized eyes from 5/32 to 7/32 tying in all naturals all synthetics and having a ball combining the two. Will it make a dam difference I don't know but I guess I have this enquirying side to my nature. Someone who really knows the patch well could wipe me clean with a moth eaten Clouser I am sure. But if I am confident in my fly I forget all about it and fish my nuts off.
I sure do remember that foggy day on N. Monomoy. Never will forget it, complete white out with no sight of land possible. Glad Jim was there to guide us back helped by his GPS. I did not fancy trying this on my own with my Silva compass but would have tried if no other option was available.

Juro luckily I was aware of the issues of more boyant materials say Bucktail that could prevent the Clouser from fishing as Intended.
I say lucky as if I had not I may have tied up a great many with way too much underbody with the smaller 5/32 eyes.

Stevo has shared a very nice Clouser design on the Uk Bass web site. Looks like just no one knows it all.

Craig and Juro hope to bump into you on the Cape in June. Be great if it can be on a Rip Trip.

Mike

Greg Pavlov
04-25-2011, 11:49 PM
One place where I use clousers with all the material on top is in the surf: they last longer tied that way. At least mine do; maybe others have figured out how to protect the material on the bottom from being worn off by the sand, but nothing else that I tried worked very well.

millerbrown
04-26-2011, 07:52 AM
Hmm....that was interesting.

All clousers will work most of the time.

polareyez
04-26-2011, 07:52 AM
I'm turning in my membership card and surrendering my membership. When a discussion on tying a fly turns into this crap it's time to go. This used to be a good place for info. The past few years it has turned into people getting criticized for voicing THEIR opinion. People getting criticized for giving TOO much information.
What the hell is the point? In the middle of winter when everything is dead, an interesting story of a WWII vet gets posted, and ripped. Yet we see a photo of someone dressed up as the Wolverine... What does that have to do with flyfishing? I can cite numerous other examples but instead...I'm Out.

juro
04-26-2011, 08:36 AM
It's your decision, no one's booting you out nor begging you to stay but I'd say there's no sense in harboring such long-term gripes by hanging around.

This site was never meant to be an entitlement, just a resource. I do know one thing though, trying to be everything to everyone results in being nothing to no one.

It is what it is, take it or leave it

Back to fishing...

juro
04-26-2011, 08:41 AM
One place where I use clousers with all the material on top is in the surf: they last longer tied that way. At least mine do; maybe others have figured out how to protect the material on the bottom from being worn off by the sand, but nothing else that I tried worked very well.


Greg -

You're fishing the surf when the material wears correct? If so IMHO you're doing it right. The vast majority of blind hookups I get are right on the sand on the national seashore.

Try synthetics, they often outlast the metal. Not all are the same, I've had great luck with superhair (polar bear color for the belly).

boatdrinks
04-26-2011, 08:58 AM
I also find that there's a lot of sand stirred up in the surf which will wear on a fly.

juro
04-26-2011, 09:04 AM
My daughter will tell you that I used to borrow her stone polisher (a motorized device that turns with abrasive material in water) to knock down the new chrome shine on my real eyes back when "anal rententive" was normal for a Monomoy flats fisher :biggrin:

I do think they are more convincing to the fish when they have a satin luster than the manuf chrome (or maybe my waders are still puckered)

Greg Pavlov
04-30-2011, 12:25 AM
Greg -
You're fishing the surf when the material wears correct? ... Try synthetics, they often outlast the metal. Not all are the same, I've had great luck with superhair (polar bear color for the belly).

You're right, I meant surf. I'll give the superhair a try, thanks.