: What fly line?
03-04-2011, 06:50 AM
Last year I developed tennis elbow so a couple of friends suggested that I get a 2 hand rod. I understand it can't be used in all conditions, but hopefully it will put less wear and tear on my elbow. Just recently I got a good deal on a Loomis Cross Current TH Salt 11'3 10/11 weight rod. Since I am new to using the TH rod I am looking for some advice as to what fly line I should use.
03-04-2011, 08:27 AM
Hey Steve, you're going to find that a pretty powerful rod. My guess is you will want a 12 or even 13 wt line or the equivalent grain shooting heads. I have a Beulah 10/11 wt, 10'6" Switch. I've tried it with several lines; for overhead it likes a 12 wt best. For Spey on the canal I would guess a 500 grain Skagit head ( a longer rod would be better for the Spey style casting, but that one will work). You should try before buy (a few of us have 1 or 2 spare lines.)
03-04-2011, 11:11 AM
That rod calls for a 425 grain line so a Rio Outbound 10wt line should be about the starting point for that rod. I've got one you can try if you want before you buy. I also think that rod was designed specifically for overhead beach work rather than spey casting at 11'3" so it is likely to be fairly stiff and fast. That being said, I've found that the Rio guide for lines is a little light for beginning casters, so you might want to go a bit heavier to load the rod like an Outbound 11wt and eventually you may want to move to a 10wt. You will probably be able to skagit cast with it but I'm not sure it will excel at that style. My guess is you'd want to start with a skagit around 550 grains with no cheaters as a starting point. From what I've been told, there are very few rods that cast well both overhead and spey/skagit but besides the canal most fishing you'll be doing will be overhead.
03-05-2011, 07:31 PM
This is all new to me so I will tryout a couple lines as advised. I probably won't spend much time at the canal, so the overhead cast will be my preference. From what I have been reading the 12 wt makes sense. Thanks for the offer to try different lines. Hopefully I can take you up on the offer to try different lines at the clave. I'd love to try it out on the lake behind my house, but it may take till June before the ice is off!
I bought a Beulah 11' 8/9 Surf Rod last year for overhand casting, which is right in the middle of their line up. In fact I had it on the Rip Trip that we took last year. Before I settled on a line, I tried a couple in weights recommended by Beulah, and also had my "expert" friends (gseries69 and VTLoon; they like being called experts) cast it with those lines. Beulah recommended a 10 or 11 wt Outbound (not the Short). We all agreed that the WF11 at 465 grain weight loaded the rod best and that is what I use. It casts very smooth and you can boom it out with the Outbound line, but am not yet to the point where I use its full potential. As Todd says 10/11 weight is pretty heavy stuff and I would definitely cast it first. You are welcome to give my rod a try at the 'Clave.
03-06-2011, 05:31 PM
I remember watching you use the beaulah at the rip last year. It seemed like you were getting good distance without a lot of effort. So was the outbound an intermediate or a sinking line? I am considering a shooting head, but will wait to try a couple lines first before I buy. I couldn't resist buying the Cross Current THer, it was a great deal. My only problem was sneaking the new rod into the house. She's tough, can't get anything past her!!:smokin:
My 11 wt Outbound is an intermediate which I use most of the time. That day at the Rip. I also used a 10 wt Oubound sinker.
I also have used the "bad shoulder" excuse for new rods, but there is a limit. One thing I highly recommend is not to store all rods in one spot.....they can count. Spread them out all over the house.:smokin:
Simon Gawesworth once told me that the magic number for casting / fishing the two-hander overhead rods is 38ft of head. I've yet to prove that wrong although a shorter is easier to flick quickly and longer head will get more distance if you maintain the power alignment through the stroke. The Rio outbound is 38ft, no coincidence that it's been field approved by so many.
Shorter lines won't hold a loop for long casts, longer heads are hard to get to load point between casts and useless on the flats if too long. Shorter compact heads are good for quick casts but splash heavy and are thick, so you're better off picking a rod taper that accomodates quick fire casting with a stealthier line than thinking just line alone on the flats.
Likewise a long head can get you the extra distance you want to reach over surf. Coming back around to the initial point - 38ft is workable all-around with one line, given the grains load the rod.
Somewhere I have some 38ft high-density super fast sinking shooting heads that were designed for Orvis by SA and these things go a mile and sink fast in rips. Long discontinued but are deadly in super fast tide rips, made single hand fishing seem arduous and ineffective in comparison at spots like Big Girl on a full riptide.
I'll try to dig up what I have for the clave.
03-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Being new to a TH flyrod there is sure to be a learning curve. This is why it is a good idea to keep it simple. Keeping this in mind, Juro's recommendation to use a 38' fly line makes sense. I appreciate all the offers to let me try out some of your lines. I'll definitely take you up on the offers. I'll want to own at least an intermediate and a sinking line. I especially look forward to using it in the surf at Nauset, Race Pt, off the rocks on the NH coast and even on the Bay. Won't be long guys......
Jim....thanks for the tip on spreading the rods throughout the house, it might come in handy. :hihi: I might get the raised eye brow, but actually she's good to me and doesn't mind my toys.
BTW - I'll be teaching two-handed casting again this summer if anyone's interested (overhead and Spey). Cheaper per person in groups / 4 students max per class however individual attention is diluted and class time is longer overall.
I can arrange a custom/combined class but it will require two outfits - short fast overhead taper and traditional Spey length and taper. I also do not believe there is a good single outfit for learning both simultaneously at this time, however I have not tried all switch rods that have come onto the market recently. Regardless, it's best to experience both extremes before trying to find the middle ground as each technique is very different from the other.
03-11-2011, 01:50 PM
I think that our tennis brothers and sisters will object to the "tennis elbow" label. Unless you play a lot of tennis I think that we can justifiably call this "fly casters elbow" OR more accurately "saltwater fly casters elbow". All of the elbow problems that people have told me about are from saltwater fly casters who don't play any, or much, tennis.
Fly fishing for trout can help!!
I had just that rod - Gseries is correct - it was designed for TH beach casting and can be punishing to the caster. But Steve Rajeff casts a mile with it - but he is not "normal".
Sorry - but a more flexible rod would have been easier on your body. Like a rod designed for switch casting. I have built a number of them on CTS blanks - from 10'6" to 12'. The 12 footer is very easy to cast - as is the 11 footers.
Also - the RIO OB #10 was designed for that rod. But I could never load it properly with it. I would try, min the #11 or as was stated the #12.
See if you can try the Loomis Stinger to compare.
BTW - the RIO OB Short is eaiser to cast with that length rod.
03-12-2011, 07:20 PM
Ken....Actually, I never could play a lick of tennis and I can't blame it on casting saltwater rods either. Back in the 70's, before becoming a teacher, I made a living swinging a 22oz hammer framing houses. I still do it every summer, but the wear and tear has caught up with me. I now use a pneumatic hammer.......hey, I wonder if I could find me a pneumatic fly rod! See you on the Millers soon.....
03-12-2011, 07:48 PM
Herb - The truth is my original thought was to get a beulah 8/9 like Jim owns, but the cross current was too good of a deal to pass by. I also had another goal in mind when I decided to go with cross current, I wanted a rod I could use for some bigger fish. But I admit, I had not thought of the faster rod being tougher on my elbow. We shall see how it goes....thanks for the advice...
I see from your Bio. that you go to the cape. My wife and I will be there for the whole month of June - PTown. If you are in the area you can try some of my rods.
The rod doesn't punish the caster, the caster punishes the caster. Most of the time the problems are un-matched line or bad technique. When a line is matched well with a well-designed rod and the technique is good it's effortless, much less work than a single hander.
It's been a long time since I cast the C/C but I do recall it's an overhead taper all the way. I'd start with that realization, and find the right line match for beach fishing. Don't be sucked in by casting on grass - even 70 ft tapers are wonderful to cast on a football field. But casting on breaking surf with a 70 ft head is horrible.
38ft has worked best as a compromise for me over the years. Shorter heads turn over before full distance is met and shorten your cast. It will make it easier for beginners but limit you in the end.
The most common problem I see it the over-active bottom hand. People are not used to having the extra leverage so tend to over-power the bottom hand. This causes the rod tip to travel in an arc instead of the straight path and power is lost.
Individual tweaks need first-hand visual observation of course.
In any case, even a 650 grain line can be effortless with proper line match and technique.