A few stats again [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: A few stats again

01-25-2011, 12:41 PM

Govt'estimated runs for the Gaspé rivers.


Happy 2011 fishing!


G Ritchie
01-27-2011, 05:51 AM
Are those the total number of fish entering each river or the estimated rod catches for those rivers?

01-29-2011, 07:27 AM

These are estimated number of fish that have entered the rivers in 2010.


Ann :)

01-30-2011, 10:54 AM
Interesting. Those numbers, except for possibly the York don't seem to reflect the wide spread anecdotal reports of much better runs this year for much of the easy coast, except for the North Shore and some Labrador rivers.

G Ritchie
02-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Quite surprised how small the runs of fish are in relation to the size of the rivers. Over here rivers of that size would typically have runs of salmon in the order of about 10 times those totals.

Green Ghost
02-02-2011, 09:36 PM
Mr. Ritchie,

Have you ever fished these rivers? I wouldn't say they are large rivers. Historically, have you reviewed the statistics? One cannot simply compare the fishing experience from one system to another and make broad comparisons with the overall reports for the species in the region nor globally. Here, the experience is what counts! No tube flies and weighted lines, simply fair fishing for the king of fish! :wink:

02-03-2011, 12:53 AM
Mr. Ritchie,

Have you ever fished these rivers? I wouldn't say they are large rivers. Historically, have you reviewed the statistics? One cannot simply compare the fishing experience from one system to another and make broad comparisons with the overall reports for the species in the region nor globally. Here, the experience is what counts! No tube flies and weighted lines, simply fair fishing for the king of fish! :wink:

I must agree with Graham Ritchie. I was very surprised at those figures. They appear to be catch figures and not total fish figures.
I have fished the rivers mentioned and have caught fish. I did not last year but instead went fishing on the Tweed in Scotland. I was very pleasantly surprised. I caught more fish than I would have expected from a trip to Canada.
Last year on the Tweed thousands of fish were caught.
I now think that the rivers in the Gaspe area are over hyped and there are, certainly for a European, more interesting and potentially more rewarding places to fish in Europe.

02-03-2011, 07:59 AM
Ann can correct me here if I'm wrong, but I believe that those stats are from the end of the season count (scuba divers go down the river and count fish in the pools).

The count is fish in the river, not fish that have entered the river. York and Dartmouth had full kill seasons last year, while the St Jean allowed 50 large salmon to be killed (not sure if that quota was reached), so many more enter the rivers that don't make it to September.

Those rivers are very sterile (low nutrient), so the parr population they support can't be huge. That said, I'm sure that a long time ago (before all the insults to the Gaspe rivers like mining and deforestation), they were capable of supporting more parr and more returning adults. As they are now, they barely if at all make minimum escapement numbers.

They are still beautiful waters with wonderful fish though.

02-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Hey Pete

Maybe numbers (quantity) isn't everything. The Gaspé rivers are pretty special.

Certainly, Tweed is an impressive fishery. On our 2 week trip to Scotland last spring, the only fishing I did was one afternoon in late May and managed a small, bright salmon on a gorgeous stretch of the river in water conditions that my friend (who lives on the banks of Tweed) said was the lowest in probably 30 years. Couldn't ask for more. It's a very impressive river, as were my non-fishing visits to the Tay, Dee, and Spey.

But don't sell the Gapsé rivers short . . . they have some of the clearest, most unspoiled water in the world. With impressive fish. Where you can fish for large, sighted fish (you can almost see what they're thinking when a fly passes over them) with dead drift dry flies. And they boast some of the loveliest fish on the planet. I've taken fish to 28 lbs on dead drift dry flies, 32 lbs on waked flies (here's a lovely lady from 2 yrs ago . . . a not-so-petite 24 lbs).

I fished the York for the first time last year for 4 days . . . one day I swear I thought it might snow, but I managed 4 fish in 4 days, one fish of 20 lbs, one fish on a dry fly. Not bad "numbers" for salmon fishing.

And for those who haven't tried these rivers, Ann runs a first-class operation. You won't be disappointed.


02-04-2011, 01:02 AM
Nice fish Bill!!

I agree that the Gaspe rivers are quite special. The clarity of the water etc. is quite unique. My comments however are about the lack of fish and the cost of fishing there.

I used the word "hype" because all the advertising that I see is all about how great a fishery Gaspe is.

Like salmon fishing anywhere it's all about right time and right place. However the fish must be there as well.
I have fished the St. Jean, Dartmouth, York, Grande, Pabos, and a few other smaller rivers and have caught fish on most. However for a european to go to Canada with the specific intention of fishing then I believe it is not worth the price of air fares etc. etc. when there is better fishing to be had closer to home.

02-04-2011, 10:04 AM
Pete - where did you fish on the Tweed? I used to have a week with some friends at the end of November at Yair - loads of fish moving through but colored up for the most part. I did manage one 8lb bright silver grilse on my second year.

Prime time used to be the last two weeks of October which was a tough/impossible time to find a rod anywhere from Peebles to Berwick.

Great to hear the runs were good last year!

02-05-2011, 08:46 AM
"And for those who haven't tried these rivers, Ann runs a first-class operation. You won't be disappointed."
Thanks Bill, I have not been up there in years, but I would do so at Ann"s operation... Not to mention she has been one of our most loyal and helpful sponsors for years.

02-06-2011, 06:53 PM
Basicaly, the main reason why you just can't compare Scotland rivers with Gaspe rivers in term of productivity is related to the time required to produce a smolt. Here, rivers like York need 3 and 4 years to produce a smolt, rather than something like 14 month in Scotland if my memory is good. It means a net survival rate in the river much much lower than in Scotland. Here, 3 and 4 generations of young salmon compete rather than only one in your rivers.

G Ritchie
02-07-2011, 02:27 PM
Thanks for the explaination. It was certainly not my intention to critisize any of these rivers, which I am sure provide a great fly fishing experience, sight fishing with dry flies. It was merely my genuine surprise at the low numbers of fish returning to these rivers.

02-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Likewise as an American if it were only about convenience I would much prefer to drive back to Gaspe instead of all the extra time and expense of going overseas.

BUT it's not about that for me so much as the unique experience each presents. Fishing for salmon in Scotland, Canadian Maritimes, Scandinavia, Russia, England, Ireland are all quite different I'm sure and it would be hard to find such beautiful wild salmon rivers as we see on the Gaspe anywhere in the world. I would love to visit the distilleries in Scotland on the namesake "Spey" as well, but for different reasons than I would fish the Gaspe, and I would want to fish them both :)

As an analogy, for me there is no comparison between fishing for native steelhead in the pacific northwest vs. the Great Lakes, meaning no disrespect. One can catch many steelhead in a GL trib in the time one fish may be caught out west, but one can never catch a native steelhead there and that may (or may not) matter and is purely subjective. To me it's what steelhead are, it's everything.

I know several well-known anglers who have fished the Ponoi and they return nearly disgusted at how easy the fishing was. Interesting... quality over quantity.

02-08-2011, 07:29 AM
By numbers, the rivers of Scotland hold far greater quantities of fish than those of the Gaspe. They always did. By numbers the quantity of salmon that traveled past Hartford, Connecticut many years ago, paled any river in Scotland.
Restigouche At Toms Brook
The reason is simple to me. The greater the habitat to support fish while juvenile the greater the return on average. The longer the growing season the bigger on average smolt produced. If you look at rivers like the Tay and Tweed what you will notice is the vast water drainage that they have. Some of the tributaries have as large an escapement as the main rivers of Gaspe, all but the Restigouche and Grande Cascapedia.
Benchill & Pitlochrie Beat On Tay
I love Scotland for her incredible beauty and history and I love the Gaspe for the very same. For me the best of Scotland is happening March through mid June. I dream of April on Dee as much as June on Restigouche or the begining of August on Matane. Scotland has some of the best early bright and big salmon you can find at that time. The rivers of New Brunswick can be just as good for numbers and quality as any in Scotland during October and the Margaree may be all the Highlands you need at the end of the Month. If you still want a fix in November then the Tweed is open but you will find most of the fish to be on the dark side. With good water the numbers are mind boggling.

So, get over to Scotland through the beginning of June, make a quick jump from Aberdeen to Trondheim for a few weeks, then hit the Gaspe for the best dry fly sight fishing in the world June through September. Let the rest fall where it may.

www.FlySpoke.com (http://www.flyspoke.com)

Green Ghost
02-15-2011, 07:58 AM
The question on stats sounds like reasonable answers to the question. Total vs Harvested numbers.

One thing for sure is........cast blind all day in UK and catch more fish. Or sight fish to known fish for the thrill of a lifetime. Even raising fish with the dry fly is exilarating.

The Epitomy of all fresh water angling is the catching of an Atlantic Salmon on a dry fly. Seeing one come to the fly in crystal clear water is fantastic.

Releasing them to spawn or to be caught again is a priveledge!

Is there anywhere in the UK where you can sight fish like that??

02-15-2011, 09:20 AM
Green...for some people it IS the hunt. For others it is the numbers....get an expensive guide and expect them to "spoon feed" the fish to you. God help them if they don't. One fish on the monomoy flats on a full day is ok with me..especially if it was hard to catch and no matter if I had countless looks and refusials...just keep at it.. numbers are fine but not the reason. What better way to improve your casting and presentation than hard failure.