flouro [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: flouro


hitcher
06-26-2010, 01:59 PM
I fish hitched flies. I have had some trouble over the years with certain brands of flouro carbon lines breaking at the half hitch either around the head or the eye of the fly.
Lost a good fish this week because of this.Was using Rio' Flouroflex 9lbs. Can anyone recommend a line that will avoid this?

JR SPEY
06-26-2010, 04:22 PM
I fish hitched flies. I have had some trouble over the years with certain brands of flouro carbon lines breaking at the half hitch either around the head or the eye of the fly.
Lost a good fish this week because of this.Was using Rio' Flouroflex 9lbs. Can anyone recommend a line that will avoid this?

Maxima UltraGreen or Chameleon. I can't imagine what the advantage would be to use FC with a hitched fly. The disadvantages are numerous, including being a lot fussier with knots. Most FC also tends to be rather brittle in cold water.

reely
06-26-2010, 11:33 PM
These fish are not leader shy and as stated above you should really use Maxima if you want a closer look at the fish. I just came back from the Gaspe and my friend lost a very nice fish for the very same reason. When I asked why he was using it he really did not have an answer.

Greyhackle
06-27-2010, 01:50 AM
Maxima has been the leader of choice for salmon fishing since I started in the early 70s.

hitcher
06-27-2010, 07:39 AM
I agree with you all about Maxima. I have never had trouble with it either.
As for these fish not being leader shy, I would not agree. Sure a fresh silver will probably be less, but changing to flouro when a pool is bombarded by fishermen all day, has made the difference for me on a number of occasions.
I use maxima when the situation calls for it. I add a flouro tippet when I know the salmon have seen everything under the sun for most part of the day.
I appreciate you all taking the time to answer, but the question still remains; can anyone recommend a good flouro carbon line?

JR SPEY
06-27-2010, 08:50 AM
I appreciate you all taking the time to answer, but the question still remains; can anyone recommend a good flouro carbon line?

Actually, your original post did not ask which is the best FC line, only which is the best line. That's why I answered it as I did. Secondly, I can see some situations where using FC might be an advantage on fish that have seen a lot of pressure. My point was that I can't see how it would make a difference on hitched presentation. Finally, my FC experience is more toward saltwater uses, but the brands I like best are SeaGuar and Drennan. I'm also quite fond of the original Rio FluoroFlex. The key would be to try several of these and see how brittle they become in cold water IF you fish for Atlantics during that time when the water temps are below 60*F (@16*C). Also, on the internet are several pages that describe the best knots for FC. The problem is that there's really only one important knot used for hitching, and I'll bet that knot (the hitch, or more correctly one or two half-hitches) isn't very strong with FC. At the very least I would avoid the soft FC material (like SeaGuar Grand Max and Rio FluororFlex Plus) and try those with a tougher outer shell. While that should minimize the cutting effect of the hitch, my experience is that those FC's with the tougher shell are also more brittle. It really is a Catch-22, which is why I use Maxima for hitched presentations. Also consider moving to a stronger FC than 9#. I catch more bonefish on 15-18# FC than I ever did with 10# Maxima Clear.

Salar-1
06-27-2010, 01:31 PM
I'll echo what Jim has just posted .Having said that I've had some seriuos issues with the 15lb Rio and I mean SERIOUS issues .I thought it was a bad batch from 4 yrs back but returned this yr. . The 13 and 8lb seem to hold up extremely well
Cheers
Brian

juro
06-27-2010, 01:46 PM
Orvis Maxknot Mirage is the best flouro I've used and I've pretty much tried them all. Not to be confused with the other flouro they call Mirage - only the small maxknot spools that go up to 0x only. Give it a try you won't be disappointed.

BTW I don't use flouro until mid-summer, and only for tippet. Maxima ultragreen from butt to taper - stealthy and strong and makes a very good knot.

JR SPEY
06-27-2010, 02:02 PM
Juro, what knot do you use to go from your Maxima to the FC when adding tippet? I find that connection is the weakest link. Standard blood knots haven't worked for me. Back-to-back Uni's are better, but still not as strong as the tippet to fly knot. I love surgeon's knots for many purposes, but have found that wanting, too. The best I've found is the knot Lefty refers to as the Simple Blood Knot, and to which I've also seen referred to as the ligature knot. Have you found something that actually creates a strong connection so that the failure would usually be at the fly?

juro
06-27-2010, 02:11 PM
For flats fishing to stripers using 0x to 12 or 15# maxima I've had no issues with blood knots (knock on wood) and same for bonefish using 1x to 10# maxima. These are 'rope' in the trout world but I can't comment on that since I've not tried this combination in very light tippet / leader situations yet. For steelhead I've stuck with ultragreen straight through for so long I'm not about to switch now :)

I'm actually really blown away by the strength of the maxknot mirage 0x tippet for spooky saltwater gamefish on sunny flats. I've been pulling fish onto boats, landing them in a rumbling surf with a hand on the leader, rarely if ever an issue with strength when used with the double bowline loop.

JR SPEY
06-27-2010, 02:23 PM
For flats fishing to stripers using 0x to 12 or 15# maxima I've had no issues with blood knots (knock on wood) and same for bonefish using 1x to 10# maxima. These are 'rope' in the trout world but I can't comment on that since I've not tried this combination in very light tippet / leader situations yet. For steelhead I've stuck with ultragreen straight through for so long I'm not about to switch now :)

Maybe I put too much pressure on the fish, but I can't trust either knot when striper or bonefishing. I almost never use FC in freshwater (except for carp), but use it most of the time in salt. I've gone to the total FC leader to minimize the problem. While making leaders at home, I can always use a blood knot and then use a good superglue like Loctite 406 to reinforce the knot, but doing that while on the water leaves a lot to be desired. Anyway, thanks for the quick response. I agree with the all Maxima for salmon and steelhead. I tend to use Chameleon (sp?) more than the UltraGreen, but will often use UG as the tippet on an all Chameleon leader. Still tough to beat after all these years!

juro
06-27-2010, 02:29 PM
Per the full flouro leader, I've noticed it does turn over very nicely when you use the stiffer flouro all the way thru the butt and taper especially when Spey casting.

Earle Fletcher
06-27-2010, 07:35 PM
I've been hitching since 1964. It is my favorite way to fish for Atlantic Salmon. I learned early on you can't use a light leader when hitching. The half hitch has a tendency to cut itself off after a short way into the battle when it is too small. Don't worry about the leader diameter. My friend, David Horn, the best and most successful hitcher I have ever known, used 20# Maxima. My favorite leader material has always been Maxima from the time is came on the market. I currently use Maxima Fluorocarbon and wouldn't use anything less than 12# test for hitching.

Earle Fletcher

hitcher
06-27-2010, 08:47 PM
Thanks guys. I really appreciate your recommendations. I will certainly give them a try.
I have tried the Maxima Flourocarbon, but never more than 10 # when hitching. I will have to try bigger diameter.
I used to use Seaguar FW with good results, but again in 8# or more. I can't find it anymore. Don't like the Grand Max.

The one I prefered the most was Drennan. It is as "stiff" as Maxima & never had an issue with knot slippage. It came in a 50 m green spool. I can't find it anywhere.(If someone knows where to get it, please tell me)
I have gone as low as 4#
I usally don't go that low, but it was one of those days where I was experimenting because the fishing was slow all week. I was fishing the Matapedia with a few friends and none of us even rose a fish. It was the trend with many of the guides & anglers we spoke to.

I was seeing a salmon roll in the same lie for about an hour. I hitched a modified blue rat with Drennan 10#, then 8, then 6. Needless to say I rose him on the 4# & hooked him on the second cast. I thought I would surely break him off, but 15 minutes later, he was released . Fresh 15lbs.
I really leaned into him and the leader held its own.

I thought it may have been chance that I got him to the fly with 4# Flouro. I was thinking that after I had hitched that same blue rat over him enough times, he would hit on 4# or 12# the same. That is until my very next pass with the same hitched fly. I hooked and fought another fish of about 12 lbs. I had him at my knees trying to tail him while holding the leader with my hand. One last thrash of its tail & it broke me off.
I had risen one more salmon that day using 4# while the books at the Zec had no fish reported caught.

This story doesn't make me "one helluva fisherman", it just made me a believer in small diameter flouro. This may have only been chance or a being in the right place at the right time, but it has happened to me on two other occassions on two different rivers.

In the end, as is with all tricks and kinks, it is a matter of my confidence. As we all know we fish better when are confidence is high. I do anyway.

JR SPEY
06-28-2010, 07:52 AM
The one I prefered the most was Drennan. It is as "stiff" as Maxima & never had an issue with knot slippage. It came in a 50 m green spool. I can't find it anywhere.(If someone knows where to get it, please tell me)


I've been told that Drennan is no longer available. This comes from a gear fisherman, but so far I think it's been totally accurate. It seems a company called Sunline actually marketed the FC that had the Drennan name. Drennan had Sunline put the Drennan label on 50m spools and change the # rating. In other words, the Drennan 12# was actually Sunline 15#. Just about the time I became aware of Drennan and stocked up on a bunch it evidently went off the market. I've been told that Sunline is available, and I've found a couple of places on the net that sells it. I haven't bought any yet because I have nearly a lifetime supply of FC as it is. The heaviest Sunline I've found is 20#, but I don't think Drennan was available in anything more than 12#. Do a Google search for Sunline Fluorocarbon, and I think you'll find what you want.

EDIT: I just did a Google search for Drennan and they still have a couple of sites that lists it. Whether, in fact, they still have some in stock is another matter. Give it a try and then try Sunline, which I believe is available up to 20#.

hitcher
06-28-2010, 01:45 PM
Thanks Spey,

I also did a search and found that european countries still sell it. Will definately order some.
As I was searching, I came across a flourocarbon line from Drennan called "ESP Ghost". Apparently it is mostly used for carp fishing. It claims to be 100% flouro which has the same light refraction properties as water. I've read that carp fishermen have a higher catch rate using it. Wonder if its any good for our use.

JR SPEY
06-28-2010, 07:04 PM
Actually, most fluorocarbon sold today is 100% FC. I believe it's also the case with the standard green label Drennan. ESP Ghost is available in both a standard version and a "soft" version. If you decide to try some I would recommend the standard version. It's price, though stated differently on the websites, is pretty much the same as standard Drennan. I don't doubt that ESP Ghost will help guys catch more carp, but compared to what? I actually use Gamma FC for my carp flyfishing on the ultra clear Lake Michigan flats, and it definitely allows me to catch more fish, but I'm not sure that that means more fish than a comparable Drennan or SeaGuar. It definitely helps me catch more carp than a standard mono would. If you've used standard Drennan and like it, I guess that's the direction I would recommend going.

Smolt
06-29-2010, 05:20 PM
How can you tell whether you are buying Drennan Soft or Standard? I do not see any distinction on the tippet spools shown online. Thanks.

JR SPEY
06-30-2010, 09:12 AM
It's not the regular green label Drennan that comes in soft and standard, but the ESP Ghost. I've never even seen that available for sale in North America. Hitcher said he found Drennan for sale in Europe and they also listed the ESP Ghost over there, supposedly also a Drennan product. As far as I know, the green labeled Drennan comes in only one version and even that is becoming very difficult to find in the US, at least. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Drennan is being discontinued, at least in North America. At least that's what I've been told.

Salar-1
06-30-2010, 01:13 PM
There's also Stroft Flouro . which a lot of folk here in Qc. swear by .It's available in Canada and the USA

hitcher
06-30-2010, 02:14 PM
Stroft? I 've never heard of it. Can you tell me where you can find it in Montreal or Quebec?

I just came back from buying some Maxnot. It holds up very well with half hitches tied on the head or the eye of the hook. Will try it tomorrow on the river. Thanks Juro.

juro
06-30-2010, 02:32 PM
Maxknot held very well for my client this am...

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs221.snc3/20840_403140034314_691204314_4530116_7403100_n.jpg

This fish took the line in a blink and over three-quarters of the backing.

hitcher
06-30-2010, 02:58 PM
cool. Nice fish

JonC
06-30-2010, 08:41 PM
Not to be a poop, but lifting heavy fish by the jaw should be discouraged, very bad for connective tissue that holds jaw on fish. Release mortality is an issue we should take very seriously.
Jon

juro
07-01-2010, 04:28 AM
This is a good point, Jon - not a poop at all. We had that very discussion, and also any use of the gills or gill covers to raise a fish is discouraged with the exception of large blues.

In this case, we had decided to keep a single fish that was to be enjoyed by 9 people, obviously as part of a dinner with other seafoods. Such handling should only be used for a kept fish, and it was not handled in such a manner until after the decision was made.

Green Ghost
07-04-2010, 10:42 AM
Here it is again, I have no problems with Flouro and atlantics and continue to use it this day, caught a 20 pounder yesterday on 12.5 pound grand max. see the entire discussion from a couple years back. I too have been known to hitch and haven;t experienced a problem. Tight lines and good knot tying.




Flouro Carbon Tippets

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My ten Cents,

I have been using Seagaur Flouro for Atlantics for three to four years now. I formerly used Either Maxima Ultra green OR Dai Riki.

About a year ago, Someone said that Salar can see Flouro Carbon on this site. I cannot prove this as the fish will not tell me. I have not experienced any of the Breaking / cracking / knot tying problems described here. I start with a 9 foot tapered leader of this material in 10 or 8 pound depending on water levels. I use all Barrel Knots to Taper my leader after that. I use All Turle knots for wet flies and all Improved clinch Knots for dry Flies. It is small diameter, cast little shadow and the Stuff is indestructible

For example, I landed a 20 pound fish On the St Jean In 10 minutes with some current and a very fresh fish SOLO (alone) and released it quickly. You can really lean on this tippet. That day I was using 10 pound test. EVen accross rocks it holds up. Even with Saltwater Bluefish with Razors in their mouths it Holds on For a long Time.

I cannot even begin to try and Break the 12 pound. (I think My Rod would break First).

I go as low as 6 pound test when the water is low and they definitely cannot see it. It holds up to rocks extremely well.

Where is the proof that Salar can See Flouro Carbon???

I found out that Maxima Stretches alot , The Knots BURN easily ( especially Barrel Knots). Change the tippet if you catch a fish! You cannot use it twice for another fish (learned that the hard way)

OK My results: I have had salmon come to the dry fly and not take it on Numerous occasions with Flouro Carbon. I have also had full Commitment with flouro Carbon. I have never tried to raise the fish with Flouro carbon and have it refuse to Commit, then Switch to Mono (Maxima) to see if the fish takes it.

You just do not have the time to experiment with these fish. Patience
is what usually pays off and not the kind of tippet you use.

More than ten cents revealed, Please someone reply with the Optical tests conducted with Live Atlantic Salmon and small dry flies And Maybe I will try to experiment and proove or disproove these theories!!!!!
__________________

hitcher
07-04-2010, 11:37 AM
I just got back from three great days fishing on Quebec's North shore.
Tested different diameter Maxnot on hitched and normal tied flies. I was lucky enough to find favourable conditions and willing fish to test on.

Conclusion: I have found that anything lighter than 2X (maxknot) will "sometimes" break at the hitch knot. (Although I rose a few fish on the hitch, I did not hook any & this was not tested on fighting a salmon).

The stuff did hold up very well with turle knots. I did break 2 fish off on it, but 1 salmon broke because of stones and 1 was probably because of my laziness of not checking if my leader was okay after it got caught on some rocks.
It holds up great when using bloodknots from tied to Maxima. Also good for improved clinch.
Thanks for the recommendation.

Salar-1
07-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Stroft? I 've never heard of it. Can you tell me where you can find it in Montreal or Quebec?

I just came back from buying some Maxnot. It holds up very well with half hitches tied on the head or the eye of the hook. Will try it tomorrow on the river. Thanks Juro.
Claude Desrosier has/had it in his Rimouski shop.Which rivers were you fishing on the Northshore ? I was up on the Escoumins 2 weeks back and we gave up and fired across to the Matapedia for an exceptional 3 days fishing !

hitcher
07-05-2010, 09:32 PM
I was on the Malbaie thursday, Escoumins friday, and Petit Sagneuy saturday.

We fished sector A on the Malbaie. 5 rods, 10 fished hooked.

We fished sector B 3 on the escoumins. 1 landed, 2 raised. Water temp. was 11 C in the morning, and rose to 20 C by late afternoon.

we fished public water on P.Sag. Rose multiple fish on dries, 1 hooked.

We fished Escoumins two weeks ago also. Water temp. rose as high as 24 C.

Leaving again tonight.

The Thrasher
08-03-2010, 03:24 PM
Claude Desrosier has/had it in his Rimouski shop.Which rivers were you fishing on the Northshore ? I was up on the Escoumins 2 weeks back and we gave up and fired across to the Matapedia for an exceptional 3 days fishing !

I lost a nice fish on Cascapedia 2 weeks ago on 18 lb Stroft Fluoro. The guide insisted on putting on a new "leader" to attach to a 0.030" fluoro permanent butt section about 6 ft long that I like on my doublehanders. He cut off my old leader (10 ft tapered fluoro) and tied a perfection loop in the permanent butt fluoro, then took about 8 ft of level 18 lb stroft fluoro (at least that's what he said it was), and tied a perfection loop in it, and looped it to the butt.

When the fish took and I struck, it left with the fly and all the "leader" right up to the guide's perfection loop. I dunno, maybe just one bad knot, but I can't help thinking I'd have had that fish the leader he'd just cut off...

First time I've had problems with Stroft, mind you. Rest of the trip I used Rio fluoroflex plus 13 lb with no problems.

hitcher
08-04-2010, 05:50 PM
I was fishing with 2 X maxknot in a pool on the Grande river. Broke off two fish using turle knots. Granted, there were some sharp rocks. I decided to keep it on anyway. I did land two others with no problems that same evening. .

Two days later on the Mitis, hooked a good salmon and again broke him off at the knot.

May have got a bad batch, but will not be using Maxknot anymore.

Just bought a bunch of Drennan online.[IMG]

Take a look at these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loAnQYMEvJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA-lCcwav8g

The Thrasher
08-04-2010, 06:16 PM
I was fishing with 2 X maxknot in a pool on the Grande river. Broke off two fish using turle knots. Granted, there were some sharp rocks. I decided to keep it on anyway. I did land two others with no problems that same evening. .

Two days later on the Mitis, hooked a good salmon and again broke him off at the knot.

May have got a bad batch, but will not be using Maxknot anymore.

Just bought a bunch of Drennan online.[IMG]

Take a look at these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loAnQYMEvJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA-lCcwav8g

Longue Pool? I had a fish there wrap my line around a rock at the top (not the leader), but eventually I got it off and landed the fish. 13 lb Rio Fluoroflex Plus, 2 releases for each of us.

hitcher
08-04-2010, 06:51 PM
Yes, Longue.