Close encounter at the Tub ... [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Close encounter at the Tub ...


Adrian
04-18-2010, 02:05 PM
... of the Canis Latrans kind!

Follwoing the epic shellfishing in near arctic conditions yesterday morning with Juro and encouraged by the fully developed cherry blosson at Harwich Commons, I decided the check out the tub last night at low tide.

I wasn't holding out too much hope but it did feel good to be back on the Cape holding a fly rod :smokin:

Just after 8:00 pm I decided to call it a day and as I was about to start the hike back across the dunes, I caught a movement out of the corner of my eye. Padding along the shoreline was what I first took to be a large dog. It kept trotting along then stopped, turned in my direction and started coming towards me. There being no owner in sight I realized it was one of Monomoy's resident coyotes.

I figured a couple of quick flashes with my headlamp would spook it but no, it just kept coming. My next reaction was to charge at it making the most almighty racket. That did the trick. Or at least so I thought, as after running off about 20 yards it stopped, turned and started coming back. This time I really lost it. Anyone in the vicinity must have wondered what the hell was going on but, it being 38F, blowing 30mph and dark, I doubt there was anyone else dumb enough to be out there :roll:

After scarpering off a second time it melted away into the dark and I quickly made my way across the dunes, looking over my shoulder fairly frequently until I got back to the lighthouse side. Thankfully the widblown sand was firm underfoot which made for good progress.

I was about half way back to the stairs when off to my left, sonofabitch, there it was again! It didn't come too close but kept pace with me about 90 feet off. If I'd remembered the camera, I would probably have gotten a picture! I was almost back to the stairs when it finally disappeared back into the dunes.

All the time common sense was telling me that Coyotes are spooked by humans but the evidence last night suggests otherwise. Maybe someone has been leaving food out for it?

Anyway, next time I decide to fish the Tub after dark I will be carrying a better weapon than a fly rod.

One other footnote to this adventure: The Mass State Police seem to be extremely "enthusiastic" on Route 6 this year so, for those travelling up over the next few weeks, watch your speed :wink:

bigduck10
04-18-2010, 05:38 PM
I had one watch me while I was fishing the Cattaraugus in Western NY last spring. Never came to close but just kept watching me for about 30 minutes.
Kind of hard to concentrate on the fishing with good old "Wylie E Coyote.. Genius" watching me.

striblue
04-18-2010, 10:51 PM
Adrian...I will be carring something other than a flyrod if at night out there...like a 9mm Walther...a knife will not help especially if there are more than one. They seem to spook if near homes and roads as I have seen around my place but I had an incident many years ago where following, in areas where they are comfortable, became unnerving and , as far as I am concerned, unpredictible.

juro
04-19-2010, 04:11 AM
I plan on throwing a couple M-80s into the chest pack. They're completely waterproof (even the fuse) and will teach them a lesson without hurting them. My luck the matches will be wet :)

Yet another of many reasons why I love sight-fishing in the day.

striblue
04-19-2010, 08:12 AM
I would not hurt them either...I would expect, as a m80, that a gun shot report in the sand between them and me will also make them run. But I expect to see more of them this year according to other reports... and they also run in packs...so I would want more than a firecracker...and you will want something quicker than , as you say, trying to fiddle with matches or even a lighter. I remember getting a lecture from, I think, MikeM, I forget his handle who stated that even a knife will probably noy be enough to protect you since, as dogs will do, charge at the wrist...if they see something. I was told to hold the knife behind you out of sight. Your reaction is to lift your arm on an attack to protect your neck....finally, one could be rabid....anyway...i also plan to do most of my fishing in daylight...but I will also be out before daylight early in the morning and that is also a very active time for them. I would never hurt them but I will not risk serious injury or worse.

vtloon
04-19-2010, 08:28 AM
A boaters air horn might do nicely. The small sized version is very portable and doesn't require any fumbling around. Could come in handy on foggy flats, too.

Adrian
04-19-2010, 08:39 AM
Some type of audio device looks like a plan.

There are several ultra-sonic anti-dog-attack devices out there.

Anyone have any experience with them - Mailmen? Joggers?

JimD
04-19-2010, 08:43 AM
..the air horn is a good idea. If it doesn't work, use "Mace Muzzle" canine repellent;

Paxton
04-19-2010, 08:47 AM
Adrian...I am just a bit curious about your "close encounter"....given that it is Spring and mating season...you weren't by chance wearing your coon tail long brimmed fishing hat ...were you????? :lildevl:

Ron

striblue
04-19-2010, 08:51 AM
One other thing worth mentioning and which Pete Gray can attest. Several years ago, scientist were wondering why the local one were getting so big...like the size of big German Sheppards, not the historic smaller scrawny one seen in the past. A DNA test was performed on one the victim of a road kill and it was determined that they were crosses into the wolf breed... Gray wolves to be exact.....which, as you know , are programmed to "stalk" more than the smaller full breed coyote...just a point of interest in this discussion. So I wonder about the probable success of so called noise devises . The odds are they will work but may not. A fog Horn is a good idea especially if you are caught on a flat... I carry one only at times I am planning on being on a flat. I don't bring it if the plan is to be just beach fishing.

Penguin
04-19-2010, 09:05 AM
Coyote-Wolf hybrids have been driven from Area61 by the likes of... :Eyecrazy:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/Phracas/LucyFur.jpg

Adrian
04-19-2010, 09:07 AM
John, that is interesting since the Coyote I saw appeared pretty large to me - German Shepherd size.

I didn't mention it previously as the dark can play tricks but it would also explain the "stalking" behavior.

striblue
04-19-2010, 09:25 AM
The reason I will NOT take any chances...is that one of my experiences several years ago...about the time that the DNA test was done is that I was fishing near the point at the light house.... on the beach.... and all of a sudden I happen to look behind me and there is what appears to be a huge German shep... literally slinking down from the dune head toward me..... it was on its stomack...like a cat...crawling toward me... I almost peed in my pants and shouted , waving the rod, and pulled my waste knife.. It stopped...but did not move, just watching me.... so my only recourse was to move into the water.... with that current...up to my thighs.... and we watched each other...I started back wading all the way.... it stood up and walked back into the dunes.... I was exhausted wading back against the current to the stairs... I would have dove in if I had too....But I felt that I stood a chance in the water even if it dove in since I would have the upper hand in that case.... I don't plan on that again and I will not let a wild animal get close enough to me again to be able to get a shot of mace at it. Mace that might work on dogs but not hybrid wolves, who are hungry. There is also something about the danger of eye contact which I forget but will check out again...I think you are to maintain visability of it, but not direct eye contact as they see that as aggressive. A staring contest does no go and they freeze too but will not run. You then may have crossed the line....so get ready. Maintain visability and move away casually, not turning your back.

Penguin
04-19-2010, 09:30 AM
There's a bit of controversy regarding DNA evidence...
If the imposing "coyotes" are genetically deemed to be "wolves" they would fall under "endangered" species and "protected" status...
Federal sharpshooters and local agencies would be stymied...
So, the evidence is questioned and denied and the "predators" walk a fine line...
Welcome to the Phood Chain...

striblue
04-19-2010, 09:45 AM
Right, but no one will make that claim since they want to rid them... and were doing it I think two years ago on Monomoy....But there is no question that they are not like the Coyotes of old. They are even a different color...not all brown but combo of gray and brown... by the way... charging them is a big mistake. That can provoke an attack. retreat is the best course...non aggresive behaviour is best even if you think showing your fearlessness is important.... they STILL know you are scared...so just move off casually...The more distance you put between you and them... The MORE you relax and this can be sensed by them. I have never heard of anyone charging a wild bear to scare them off, despite loud noices which do work on bears... it may not with these guys. Also, as was Adrians first reaction which is normal is to charge....show force...but that will not give you time to pull out whatever protective devises you have should that fail.. and they charge back. Your first thought would be to move away, get your stuff out you need, get it ready as you move off. If out in the middle of the dunes...move toward the water.... you can atleast jump in. One other thing... these things are VERY fast in close contact....

petevicar
04-19-2010, 09:55 AM
What a great place to go fishing.
You stay on the beach you get eaten by wolves :eek: , you go into the water you get eaten by a great white shark. :eek:

After dark I just go to the bar.:lildevl:
Even that is dangerous.:eek:

PEC54
04-19-2010, 10:00 AM
South beach, North and South Momomoy, are they not all part of the National Sea Shore? Which would put them in federal property, I would not carry a firearm in this area. A similar conversation was discussed on another web site concerning carrying firearms along the canal ,to deter muggings or other self protection reasons. Several law enforcement officers from local cops,state cops and federal posted saying it is illegal to carry a firearm of any sort on federal property,and not to be forgotten the fish cops will be getting you for hunting out of season.:hihi:

striblue
04-19-2010, 10:12 AM
I was just kidding...I would never carry a firearm on federal property.:smokin: Also, Not sure of that jurisdiction since south Beach is the Town of Chatham and there are conflicting jurisdiction issues on that...I also think that hunting is allowed, in season....The US Supreme Court just reversed a decision by a lower court which did not allow carrying of firearms at a National Park. Can not remember the name of the Park... so I am not sure if what you say is the current law.

Rupe
04-19-2010, 10:18 AM
Blimey - this certainly adds a new dimension to night fishing. Is contact a regualr occurance? Can we hire a 9mm from someone??! I saw something down at Stage on the Hardings side last year in the evening, but it was much smaller - would this have been a jackal?

striblue
04-19-2010, 10:23 AM
Rupe..That was Carlos The Jackal... a well know terrorist..the dirty dog!!!!.Thanks for the heads up...;) By the way...Just did a quick Google and the federal Law did indeed change effective february 22, 2010...firearms can not be prohibited in Federal Parks.....so aslong as you are complying with local and State laws....which a licensed person would be...it is ok..pending a further check. I have seen many laughing Hyenas at the Squire though.

Penguin
04-19-2010, 10:41 AM
require drastic measures...

bonefishmon
04-19-2010, 10:45 AM
Perhaps I missed this mentioned in a previous post but I read that there is a federal sharpshooter in residence on South Monomoy during the egg laying season. Coyotes were eating the the eggs and being shot for doing so. Now that the southway is closed I'll bet the population has increased ten fold. Cast all day.... shoot throughout the night and get paid along with a federal pension? Hummmmmm.....Do they eat seal pups?

Phil

flydoc
04-19-2010, 02:09 PM
John- unfortunately, there is a distinction between National PARK and National Wildlife REFUGE that I think comes into play with regards to the whole firearms thing....the Monomoy area (I believe) is classified as a REFUGE, while the rest of the Cape Cod National Seashore would be classified as a PARK. Portions of the National Seashore area (namely, the Marconi Wildlife Management Area in Wellfleet) are designated as a state WMA that are open to hunting during the designated hunting seasons; areas of the National Seashore OUTSIDE the WMA (but EXCLUDING any areas designated as a REFUGE) might also be used for hunting within the designated seasons, but ALSO following whatever rules/regulations the park manager lays out (just to avoid hassles....otherwise it's off to court to fight the good fight....if you have the time and $$$$ to do so.....or write to your favorite hunter's rights group and have them lobby for you). In a nutshell, I think the "no firearms at Monomoy" rule still applies...you can always chat with the new refuge manager to find out....I'd be interested in his response.
Otherwise, I'll join Pete V in fending off the wild animals at the Squire:lildevl:
Flydoc

striblue
04-19-2010, 03:09 PM
Thanks Doc, those are good points and I see the application of the hunting distinctions... however, The Sup Ct. decision applies to points raised under the 2nd amendment and I have not seen the decision and will look at it breath...but I think it applies to Federal "Lands" however they are distinguished by the Government and I expect to look at the decision> The case arose from an argument on the national parks but I think the decision cuts a wider swath and that would make sence.

juro
04-19-2010, 03:20 PM
Training Regimen for Penguin Force One Squirrel Brigade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Eb1Nt6WIE&feature=related

require drastic measures...

n1gdo
04-19-2010, 03:30 PM
Rod...................check

Reel...check

Flies...check

FAL, AK47, M16... check check check....

Guernseybass
04-19-2010, 04:24 PM
I had an incident on the back river a couple of years back - three circled me as I walked the half mile back to the car. I just lobbed a well placed rock at them :)

Others were not so lucky - some lady's dog was killed.

If I was out there at night I'd carry a couple of kayak flares. That would give you a couple of minutes each and it may attract assistance

mark

juro
04-19-2010, 05:11 PM
:chuckle: :hihi:

What a great place to go fishing.
You stay on the beach you get eaten by wolves :eek: , you go into the water you get eaten by a great white shark. :eek:

After dark I just go to the bar.:lildevl:
Even that is dangerous.:eek:

petevicar
04-20-2010, 07:07 AM
And if you are really unlucky you might get shot by a Cape Cod Infantryman.:hihi: :hihi:

juro
04-20-2010, 07:21 AM
It's like going hunting with Dick Cheney!

petevicar
04-20-2010, 07:43 AM
It's like going hunting with Dick Cheney!

I am sorry but I don't understand:confused:

Naive foreigner

striblue
04-20-2010, 08:21 AM
Petevicar and two of our beloved Cape Cod Flyfisherman

juro
04-20-2010, 08:58 AM
Dick Cheney, Vice President under Dubya, shot his friend while hunting together.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney/

Is that a fanny pack you're wearing? :lildevl:

I am sorry but I don't understand:confused:

Naive foreigner

Adrian
04-20-2010, 09:02 AM
Dick Cheney, Vice President under Dubya, shot his friend while hunting together.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney/

Is that a fanny pack you're wearing? :lildevl:

There was a popular bumper sticker in Ma around that time. It went something like:

"I'd rather ride with Ted Kennedy than hunt with Dick Cheney" ...

Adrian
04-20-2010, 09:04 AM
Petevicar and two of our beloved Cape Cod Flyfisherman

They look like gear guys to me ... ;)

petevicar
04-20-2010, 09:06 AM
Dick Cheney, Vice President under Dubya, shot his friend while hunting together.

He obviously shot the wrong bloke.:chuckle:

Again the american use of our language baffles me. :confused:
A "fanny" is an interesting part of the female anatomy. :smokin:

Mike Oliver
04-21-2010, 01:17 PM
How big are they and do they bite ya.

flydoc
04-21-2010, 04:31 PM
How big are they and do they bite ya.

They're huge, and will try to eat you if you smell like food to them. That's why I always load up on garlic and baked beans before I go out at night....the resulting odor keeps them at a respectful distance:lildevl:

Unfortunately, it seems to have the same effect on the babes at the Squire:frown:

Flydoc

Penguin
04-21-2010, 05:17 PM
is now departing the Morris Island sanctuary...
ALL ABOARD!
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/Phracas/NaturalResources.jpg

rooster
04-21-2010, 06:06 PM
I would give all the same advice that a buddy of mine gave me, regarding the big bears, when we were bowhunting sitka blacktails on Kodiak Island. Always fish/hunt with a friend, make sure you are faster than your friend. You don't need to be real fast...., only faster than the slowest person with you.....,:chuckle:

striblue
04-21-2010, 07:02 PM
Just confirmed that the Supreme Court decision specifically states that state firearm laws apply to National Parks AND Federal Wildlife refuges. So there you go.