Double bowline success, bomb-proof backing knots and... [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Double bowline success, bomb-proof backing knots and...

07-20-2009, 09:42 AM
more 35-40" fish than I could dream of to test field test them on. Ahhhhh.... it's good to be a flyfisher on the cape.

I've continued testing the birmingham bowline on fine tippet and can attest to it's strength and stealth even when using a fine tippet on the flats (albeit too fine, but for testing purposes). I did experience one break off during this test period but it was well above the knot and on a sight-cast fish probably 36" or thereabouts. I barely had half the head of the line out of the guides when it hit with such force and rooster tailed that even a strip strike exploded the tippet. I assume the fish tool the fly well inside it's bucket mouth and the maw was too much for the spider web thin flouro. Unlike a bluefish, the end was abraded and the end was clean cut. It was not a loop strand break nor a 'clasp' failure.

I also lost a flyline on a freight train when the albright unraveled. I should've known better than to swap lines knee deep on a flat like that - all backing connections have been made bomb-proof and a friend reported a 45 inch fish with a full fly line was caught at Plum Island just to bust 'em.

So I am concluding this test with two scratched up thumbs up and upp'ing the tippet back to a worthy diameter for these brutes. I wanted to use the fine tippet as long as possible to validate the knot but it's passed with flying colors.

BTW - I spoke to the parking shuttle folks on Main St downtown (that big empty lot down around 405-410ish Main) and they'd have no problem shuttling up to the Fish Pier. If anyone wants to go explore the new mecca it's a good option to the ridiculous parking problem up there caused by the shuttle. Each time I look out there the bars have changed and the birds have been going nuts out there indicating lots of bait.

Keith - maybe that would work out for you ie. the parking issue (?)

07-20-2009, 12:28 PM
Sounds like and incredible testing ground!

Good information you're sharing and interested in further results.

07-20-2009, 04:06 PM
Try this knot and see how it works. the author is a bass fisherman and says that Florocarbon is brittle and difficult to work with. People who use this material complain that the knots always slips. It's worth a try. The bass pro is fishing for money so I would think that they would want a knot that wouldn't fail. Disclaimer: I have not tried this knot but I'm just passing on information. FishHawk

bassfan dot com

Here is the link where I got this info.

07-20-2009, 04:34 PM
I probably was not clear but the knot being tested was a fixed loop knot with two strands in the loop. The double bowline has me very excited toward this end, borrowed from the mountain climber's handbook.

For fixed non-loop knots I feel you can't beat the palomar for tying ease and strength.

This sd knot looks like it beefs up the knot body quite a bit and is a big improvement over the clinch, thanks for posting.

07-23-2009, 09:57 PM
I have been doing a lot of tuna fishing the past 3 years up there and have learned a lot from this experience. Have you considered splicing end loops using hollow core spectra. This is what I have been doing this year and landed a 68" 200+ lb. BFT using this setup. I am going to do this with all of my fly gear as well as all of my regular gear as well. It completely replaces all knots and is 100% breaking strength of the line you are using. Plus it gives you the ease of changing out your leader, flyline by utilizing the loop to loop connection. It takes little learning to get used to splicing into the Jerry Brown hollow core but once mastered it is just anawesome way to rig any and all fishing terminal connections. I don't have to seel you on the advantages of having no knots in your gear except of course the leader to fly knot which is mandatory of course. I have been using Aquaseal to coat the serves as the Pliobond was not standing up to the rigors of casting. The Aquaseal should be permanent and it is very durable/flexible. Just some thoughts.

07-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Hey Mike, good to hear from you!

I make loops w/ braided mono for interchangeable Spey systems but the spectra sounds interesting - stronger, thinner, slicker. What #test / diam are you using for making these loops? I also found aquaseal to be the best coating.

07-24-2009, 01:18 PM
I am using the 80 lb. Jerry brown hollow which will test well above 100 lbs. But for your application it might be
Wise to drop down to a lighter lb test. The 60 lb tested at 105 lbs. Breaking strength so you would be fine with
That I am sure. If you go to bhptackle dot com Basil carries everything you could want for making up the windons and splices he also carries the JB Hollow line in various lb test.

07-24-2009, 01:36 PM
Thanks Mike -

I googled the product and found local sources. I'll give it a try since I am replacing all of my backing connections after the recent loss of a fly line on a big hot flats submarine roostertailing for the drop off.

07-24-2009, 06:28 PM
. . . I am replacing all of my backing connections after the recent loss of a fly line on a big hot flats submarine roostertailing for the drop off.

Ouch . . .

If you're going to lose a fly line, then that's a respectable way for it to go -- but I wouldn't want to do it often!


07-28-2009, 08:32 AM
Thanks Mike -

I googled the product and found local sources. I'll give it a try since I am replacing all of my backing connections after the recent loss of a fly line on a big hot flats submarine roostertailing for the drop off.

Be pretty hard to lose a flyline with the spliced connections as they become an integral part of your line. There is a guy that I know that just patented a new splicing technique that is supposed to be glueless and serveless and is very small ans short. I am trying to get him to give up the dope on it but he is resisting a little as he wants to sell these I guess. The original technique works fine though and should be fine for anything we need to do. I love this way of rigging as it gets rid of all the knots in your line completely and once you have the loop in the flyline it makes changing leaders snap if you make them up ahead of time. Just cut off the old one and loop on the new one.....DONE!

07-28-2009, 09:03 AM
I don't get the part about cutting off the old one - are you using something different with these splices Mike?

Here's my set-up... flyline has a small loop that runs thru the guides easily. Backing has a large surgeon's loop that can go around a whole plastic line spool. Lines are wound onto original spools for storage.

I carry two spools - clear intermediate and sinking head / intermediate running line. Rare occasions a floater will replace one of these but the change is done at home using the above technique.


07-28-2009, 09:11 AM
I said cut it off because the JB hollow is so thin that when you loop it it becomes difficult to undo the loop connection. It is not impossible but you cannot easily undo the loops as you would with other methods. Which now makes me think that for flyfishing it may be a bit of a pain but frankly I have not really played with it enough flyfishing wise to really get a good feel for it. JB is spectra so you know when you get a knot in it what a pain it is to get the knot out, the same thing happens with the loop to loop it closes down so tightly that it almost seems like there is no loop to loop at all which is a great advantage while fishing but when you want to change out it is not so much of an advantage. I think though that you should get some and play with it to see if it can help you be more efficient it won't cost too much to do some cursory experiments with it and it could yield some fine results.

07-28-2009, 09:45 AM
I use a braided nylon pulled into a loop specifically because it allows easy loop removal. I think I'll stick to that for the time being. The steelhead guys out west have found some more supple braided material I can't remember the name.

Also the teflon coated saltwater backing (micron) in the 30# size is good for releasing the loop connection on the backing side.

thanks for the reply

07-28-2009, 11:33 AM
The strongest backing to flyline conneciton I have heard of is a double-catch braided loop served to the flyline + bimini or double bimini (braid) in the backing. I have stretched my lines on tuna so bad that the coating completely separated from the core (55# tippet) yet the 50# braided loop held on both ends of the line. Gudebrod makes good braided mono if you can find it or you can use 80# dacron for the big boys. There are detailed instructions w/pics on Dan Blanton's site.