going to quebec advise please [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: going to quebec advise please


brettfly1
01-07-2009, 04:20 PM
Hi all i'm off to quebec to fish with a canadian friend for a week in june on a few of the salmon rivers over there.Now i have never fished for salmon at all (only trout and saltwater)my questions are..will i be able to use a single handed 8/9/10 weight or do i need the longer switch rod (spey rod is not really an option)..2nd question what flies should i be looking to tie,any help would be great.....p.s.the rivers are ..(1) riviere Matapédia (2) riviere Cascapédia (3) Petite Cascapédia (4) riviere Bonaventure (5) riviere Dartmouth (6) riviere York.
Thanks
brett

i did post this thread in the uk and got some great help from some of the forum guys,but i got told this is the best place to get help

Earle Fletcher
01-08-2009, 10:22 AM
I will comment only on the rivers I have fished and fly patterns that produced for me.

Matapedia - Green Highlander, Black Dose, Rusty Rat, riffled hitched Green Butt and various Bomber dry flies

York - Rusty Rat, Silver Rat, Tiger Ghost, Ally's Shrimp, riffled hitched Green Butt and various Bomber dry flies

Darthmouth - Rusty Rat, Blue Rat, Tiger Ghost, Ally's Shrimp, riffled hitched Green Butt and various Bomber dry flies.

There are at least a 100 other patterns that will work. It's a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

Any one of the rods you mentioned will be OK. Use the one you cast the best.

You will need at lot more time than a week to fish all those rivers. A week on each would be just about right.

Earle Fletcher

Venture
01-08-2009, 10:38 AM
Earle's suggestions are right on the money.....as usual. If Earle did not release all his fish he would be banned on the Matane :chuckle:

All the flies that Earle mentioned are Gaspe Killers! The size of the fly is also a very important factor, perhaps as important as the pattern itself. But nothing is more important that fishing over fish......as per what Earle stated.

During June, the water is usually on the high side, so bigger flies are in order such as #2s to #6s. You should have a variety of the patterns that Earle mentioned in these sizes. You do not need every pattern tied in every size. You just need some patterns tied larger than other patterns. Muddler minnows also account for a big share of Salmon. The Green muddler is especially good on the Bonaventure. Muddlers can be tied on long shank 4s and 6s during that time of year and are especially good during high water conditions.

Also, sparsely tied flies usually work much better than the heavier dressed classics. Most productive flies are tied with sparse hair wings. This also is an important factor so whether you purchase or tie your own, make sure that you use sparsely dressed ties. If you do not tie your own, I suggest you purchase flies from the many local Quebec shops. There is a great Orvis shop in the town of Causapscal on the Matepedia. He can give you up to date productive patterns and coordinate the size with the current conditions you will be fishing. Being that this is your first trip, I think this is your best bet.

Manitou
01-08-2009, 02:14 PM
Earle's suggestions are right on the money.....as usual. If Earle did not release all his fish he would be banned on the Matane :chuckle:

All the flies that Earle mentioned are Gaspe Killers! The size of the fly is also a very important factor, perhaps as important as the pattern itself. But nothing is more important that fishing over fish......as per what Earle stated.

During June, the water is usually on the high side, so bigger flies are in order such as #2s to #6s. You should have a variety of the patterns that Earle mentioned in these sizes. You do not need every pattern tied in every size. You just need some patterns tied larger than other patterns. Muddler minnows also account for a big share of Salmon. The Green muddler is especially good on the Bonaventure. Muddlers can be tied on long shank 4s and 6s during that time of year and are especially good during high water conditions.

Also, sparsely tied flies usually work much better than the heavier dressed classics. Most productive flies are tied with sparse hair wings. This also is an important factor so whether you purchase or tie your own, make sure that you use sparsely dressed ties. If you do not tie your own, I suggest you purchase flies from the many local Quebec shops. There is a great Orvis shop in the town of Causapscal on the Matepedia. He can give you up to date productive patterns and coordinate the size with the current conditions you will be fishing. Being that this is your first trip, I think this is your best bet.

Venture

Do you also use sparsely tied flies in high water condition like you would usualy encounters in early June. I have always had succes with fuller patterns in high water condition with brighter colours to punch through the dirtier water we encounter in early season fishing. High water big flies or is High water big skinny flies :tongue:

Jocelin

Here are my favorite high water flies for early season SAUMON

Spate fly chartreuse

http://www.nsfa-adventures.com/SPATE_FLY_CHARTREUSE_big_2.jpg

Sunray shadow rabbit strip

This one I have good success in the later part of the day until dark (when the water is dirtier I will change the white bucktail to green or even blue

http://www.nsfa-adventures.com/sunray_shadow_rabbit_strip_BIG.jpg

Garry Dog Long Tail

http://www.nsfa-adventures.com/long_tail_sonie.jpg

Jocelin

JR SPEY
01-08-2009, 02:22 PM
The only one of those rivers where you'll be likely to use the bomber in June is the Petite. At least, I've never done so on any of the others. On some of those rivers you'll also want to have a Picasse, Pompier, Black and/or Green Stonefly, Nighthawk, Orange Blossom, Green Widow, John Olin, and Sugerman Shrimp. My guess is depending upon fish reports and water levels you'll concentrate on one of the three sections that contain the waters you've listed. Land's End has the York and Dartmouth, Middle Gaspé has the Grand and Petite Cascapedia as well as the Bonnie. And then the Matapedia on the West end. Enjoy! These can all be superb rivers if the water is right and the fish are running in June.

brettfly1
01-08-2009, 03:31 PM
What can i say, thanks guys for the info ..i need to get tying,i'll be over in june for a week and we are going to concentrate on 2 of the rivers for the week,and i'm looking forward to it

brett

Venture
01-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Jocelin,

I prefer sparse flies on Gaspe Waters even when the water is on the high side. I just have more confidence with sparse flies. If the water is high and dirty, I prefer large bright flies or large muddlers. To me, a large fly bright fly tied sparsely looks better than an overdressed fly. But I could be dead wrong.

My favorite summer flies.....from #6s to #12s doubles and singles are all tied sparsely. I used to overdress my patterns. I find that most illustrations in pattern books are tied too heavily. I used to tie my own flies heavier, but now I find that my success is much better if the flies are tied slightly smaller on the hook, and slightly sparse in all sizes.

A great tip I had last year was using bright red nail polished heads on some of my patterns. One of the patterns was a bastard pattern with a two tone green butt.......sparse short black wing, and bright red head with nail polish. A few of my fish last year really liked that pattern.

Howie

Manitou
01-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Howie

Thanks for your response your honesty is very appreciated

Myself the only time I fish heavier dressed flies here on the noth shore is when the water is high and dirty or dirtier than normal. Here the water in never to clear its always tea coloured do to the tannin runnof.

When levels are normal i always fish sparsely tied flies also and in smaler sizes. I guess the differense will is the clearer water in Gaspe the flies dont have to be to heavely dressed compared to this side of the Big St LAurence.

The reason I think that most of all the tying book show flies that are dressed with so much stuff is probably to helf the inexperienced tier to better see the material and their layout on the conception of the fly.

Jocelin

Venture
01-08-2009, 06:44 PM
I know some very successful fisherman on the Matane who almost exclusively use large muddlers when the water is high and brown. They swear by it. These flies are usually tied sparsely on #2, 3X long streamer hooks.

I know guys that swear that redish flies work best when the high water starts to clearing and turns from brown to redish before becoming clear. That usually lasts for a day or so. Red Rats and Rusty Rats are the favorites for these guys.

Other than that, we each have our favorites during normal summer conditions. Mine is a small Peltie tied short and sparse on either a single or double. This is a killer. But the most popular fly by far on this river is the green butt........but somehow I prefer the peltie. Not too many takers refuse it if tied sparsely and tied on the smallish side.

Bugman
01-09-2009, 01:35 AM
Wow ... There are a lot of great opinions expressed here. You can't go wrong with any of this advice.

The Gaspe rivers (York, Dart, Petite, Bonny - at least) usually run clear - even in early-mid June. Clear on these rivers can mean VERY clear ... fish can be completely visible in many of the pools. As well these rivers run green - really green. This is not an algal stain - it's not cloudy water. I believe it's due to the copper deposits in the bedrock along the spine of the Peninsula. The fishing result of this phenomena is that nearly everybody who fishes these rivers carries flies with some-lots of green in them. Lots of the flies mentioned above classify, but you can do well with nearly any variety of sparse green salmon fly on most of the Gaspe rivers.

One other thing ... I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the Green Machine in any of its variations, or brown Buck Bugs. While not being 'classics' of the salmon tiers art, they are heavily fished on many Canadian salmon rivers. This is because they are as close to 'reliable' as any salmon fly can be - particularly if the water is low. Low water (relatively speaking) is a real possibility on these rivers anytime after mid-June. I wouldn't go to a Gaspe river without a supply of small clipped-deer-hair 'bugs'.

That's my $0.02 worth ... enjoy your trip!

Jim Corrigan

petevicar
01-09-2009, 07:38 AM
Hey Brett
One of the strange things that I found when fishing the Gaspe area is that weighted flies and sinking lines are very much frowned upon.

It's not even worth thinking about.

Pete

Venture
01-09-2009, 09:15 AM
Weighted flies or weighted tubes are illegal on the Gaspe Rivers. You cannot have any in your possession while on these rivers.

Sinking lines and sinking heads are extremely frowned upon and not used by the sport fisherman as opposed to the poacher. Forget the thought. The rivers all can be fished properly with floating lines and long leaders.

Manitou
01-09-2009, 09:41 AM
Wow ... There are a lot of great opinions expressed here. You can't go wrong with any of this advice.

The Gaspe rivers (York, Dart, Petite, Bonny - at least) usually run clear - even in early-mid June. Clear on these rivers can mean VERY clear ... fish can be completely visible in many of the pools. As well these rivers run green - really green. This is not an algal stain - it's not cloudy water. I believe it's due to the copper deposits in the bedrock along the spine of the Peninsula. The fishing result of this phenomena is that nearly everybody who fishes these rivers carries flies with some-lots of green in them. Lots of the flies mentioned above classify, but you can do well with nearly any variety of sparse green salmon fly on most of the Gaspe rivers.

One other thing ... I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the Green Machine in any of its variations, or brown Buck Bugs. While not being 'classics' of the salmon tiers art, they are heavily fished on many Canadian salmon rivers. This is because they are as close to 'reliable' as any salmon fly can be - particularly if the water is low. Low water (relatively speaking) is a real possibility on these rivers anytime after mid-June. I wouldn't go to a Gaspe river without a supply of small clipped-deer-hair 'bugs'.

That's my $0.02 worth ... enjoy your trip!

Jim Corrigan

Jim

I beleive Brett will be fishing in Quebec on the first week of June ( i read this on another site he posted for info)

Loved your post lost of good info

Jocelin

brettfly1
01-09-2009, 02:19 PM
well me and my buddy from quebec are all booked now with ann from quebec sporting.10th of june is our start date,and from all the information from you guy's have given me my head is spinning!!!i'm going to take all your advise and start tying some of the fly's you recommend..one other question ''BUGS'' are they about at this time of year,because they love me

brett

JR SPEY
01-09-2009, 03:00 PM
By "BUGS" I assume you're not referring to Green Machines or other Buck Bugs! Insects of the other variety can be an issue, but I haven't been bothered by them very often. The dreaded black fly has rarely been an issue for me when fishing in June. Sometimes mosquitos have been, but a lot of that depends upon how much precip they get the couple of weeks before you arrive. Bring a good DEET product, or buy some Watson's locally and you'll do OK.

Salar-1
01-09-2009, 03:10 PM
Brett
Your in excellent hands with Ann. We'll be just ahead of ya ,finishing up to the
7th after fishing the York for 8 days and we generally stay in daily contact with her, so at least you'll know which flies haven't been producing LOL :-O . Generally what works on the York/barfmouth/the John will work on the other rivers as you make your way around to the Matapedia (been there done that AND IMHO ) As for which flies ? I'll PM you on that regard.Just make sure to bring some of your Brit. flies. Friend of mine did quite well 2 yrs back on the Petite and then the Grande Cascapedia on VERY large Snaelda's while yours truly was doing just slightly better on the Petite ( I doesn't afford the big $$$$ waters)with small #10's and 12's .
To Jim
A geologist once told me the reason for the very clear waters was due to the Granite deposits ,I asked him "HUH?" and he went into a rather detailed answer which I promptely forgot .
Cheers

brettfly1
01-09-2009, 03:57 PM
Brett
Your in excellent hands with Ann. We'll be just ahead of ya ,finishing up on the
7th after fishing the York for 8 days and we generally stay in daily contact with her, so at least you'll know which flies haven't been producing LOL :-O . Generally what works on the York/barfmouth/the John will work on the other rivers as you make your way around to the Matapedia (been there done that AND IMHO ) As for which flies ? I'll PM you on that regard.Just make sure to bring some of your Brit. flies. Friend of mine did quite well 2 yrs back on the Petite and then the Grande Cascapedia on VERY large Snaelda's while yours truly was doing just slightly better on the Petite ( I doesn't afford the big $$$$ waters)with small #10's and 12's .
Jim
A geologist once told me the reason for the very clear waters was due to the Granite deposits ,I asked him "HUH?" and he went into a rather detailed answer which I promptely forgot .
Cheers



Jim

thanks for your email,let's hope you have great weeks fishing ahead of us.I will be bringing some of the ''brit'' flys with me and some of my own (got knows what the salmon will make of them) but you never know..if you can PM with some flys that would be great.
regards
brett

Earle Fletcher
01-09-2009, 04:07 PM
Brett, you should do well with Ann and her guides. They are the best!

Salar-1, what's this PM BS about your fly recommendations, we all want to know too!

Earle

Bugman
01-09-2009, 08:28 PM
Jocelin - Thanks for letting me know when Brett will be fishing!

Everybody was responding as if Brett was fishing very early in June, but I didn't see anything in his original message that indicated exactly when he would be on the rivers. Since there was lots of good advice about fishing these rivers in high-water conditions, I thought I'd add a few comments in case he was coming later in the month.

Acknowledging that he'll be there quite early in June, there are some very slow spots on the Gaspe rivers that can be fished with small stuff at any time of the year. The tails of many of the pools run slow and hold fish that can be caught - sometimes! :hihi:

As well, I wouldn't be afraid to try a big bomber over fish lying in clear slowish water on most of the Gaspe rivers - anytime in the season. As a trout angler, Brett would get the thrill of his life if one of the big boys slowly rose to his dry fly. :whoa:

This is a fun thread ... it's been interesting to see some different 'theories' on bringing salmon to a fly under different water conditions. This discussion probably will drive a number of us to the fly tier's bench.

Jim Corrigan

brettfly1
01-10-2009, 02:06 AM
[QUOTE=Earle Fletcher]Brett, you should do well with Ann and her guides. They are the best!

Salar-1, what's this PM BS about your fly recommendations, we all want to know too!

Earle[/QUOTE


Hopefully the PM is to help the british ''greenhorn''get a pull on his line.i can pass on this information at $10 a fly..only jokeing i really do need all the help i can get from all of you guys and the feedback from all of you is fantastic...i will ask again about the bugs though are they about in early june,because i must look like a rump stake to a mozzi

brett

Salar36
01-12-2009, 05:21 PM
Personaly, I would never go fishing at this period of the season without couple streamer Tiger Ghost size 1/0 , 2 and 4, and Saranac Ghost in the same sizes. In fact, I would be more confortable to go fishing at this period of the season only with these 2 flies in the sizes mentioned, rather than with 100 of any other flies without these 2 flies...

Maybe add Magog Smelt in the same sizes

wrke
01-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Couldn't agree more with the Magog Smelt.
B

Manitou
01-12-2009, 08:02 PM
Personaly, I would never go fishing at this period of the season without couple streamer Tiger Ghost size 1/0 , 2 and 4, and Saranac Ghost in the same sizes. In fact, I would be more confortable to go fishing at this period of the season only with these 2 flies in the sizes mentioned, rather than with 100 of any other flies without these 2 flies...

Maybe add Magog Smelt in the same sizes

Salar36

I also agree with your big fly suggestion and would like your oppinion on why salmon in this time of the year will take those flies before other ones.

Jocelin

Salar36
01-12-2009, 08:32 PM
Jocelin;

Personaly, I usualy use a rule in spring; the colder the water is, the bigger the fly to use will be. So, if I had a general pattern, I would say 3/0 to 1/0 between May 20th to june 1-5 th, 1/0 to # 2 from June 1-5th to mid june, and as the water level drop and warm, the size is going smaller.

Now, some have success with smaller flies, so like everything when talking about salmon, a generalty is not a strict rule.

On the Causapscal, we have caught 6 or 7 fish in May in the last couple years, and none of them with a smaller fly than 1/0. Last spring, on May 28th, fishes were coming on a 1/0, but we needed a big tube 3 inches long to have them to grab the fly. But the conditions change very quickly at this period of the season...

Salar-1
01-13-2009, 09:10 AM
Brett
Since Pierre ( salar 36) has "outed" most of the flies.,I'll publically post mine changing his list a wee bit .
In this order .
Magogs - 3/0 and 2/0
Lady Caroline -3/0 and 2/0 (friggin GREAT fly go down in size to # 8's in September)
Picasse- 2/0 and 1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_07/GALLERY/ (click on Picasse)
Causapscal Smelt-1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_06/GALLERY/index.htm ( click on C-Smelt)
Tiger Ghost 1/0 (tye Florescent green floss over top of body so it "lights " up the wing a la Causapscal Smelt)
Ackroyd -1/0
This fly ,the Olive Ouch
http://salarflyswaps.flyfishingns.com/fly3.html
has produced for fishing friends but NOT for yours truly
Cheers
Brian

brettfly1
01-13-2009, 01:17 PM
Brett
Since Pierre ( salar 36) has "outed" most of the flies.,I'll publically post mine changing his list a wee bit .
In this order .
Magogs - 3/0 and 2/0
Lady Caroline -3/0 and 2/0 (friggin GREAT fly go down in size to # 8's in September)
Picasse- 2/0 and 1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_07/GALLERY/ (click on Picasse)
Causapscal Smelt-1/0
http://www.slidespecialists.com/SSWAP_06/GALLERY/index.htm ( click on C-Smelt)
Tiger Ghost 1/0 (tye Florescent green floss over top of body so it "lights " up the wing a la Causapscal Smelt)
Ackroyd -1/0
This fly ,the Olive Ouch
http://salarflyswaps.flyfishingns.com/fly3.html
has produced for fishing friends but NOT for yours truly
Cheers
Brian


Brian thanks thats the best link to the flys so far.how many flys would you tie for a weeks fishing!because i'm a new boy to salmon fishing i have no idea what to take with me,i have ordered my hooks so i,m just going to pic some flys of your list and start tying

cheers
Brett

JR SPEY
01-14-2009, 02:12 PM
The truth is that three or so of each pattern/size is more than sufficient. Since you don't normally fish for Atlantics down in the rocks like is often done with steelhead one finds he/she rarely loses flies in the river. Perhaps the most common problem is ticking the rocks on a backcast and breaking a hook. Normally in June the tippet strength used is enough that you usually won't break fish off while fighting them. I still have many of the same flies I tied or purchased for my first trip into that area in 2001. Others may disagree, but I think most of us go there with far more flies than we really need. This is one case where I think a greater variety of patterns and sizes is more important than having a dozen of each pattern and size.

Green Ghost
01-15-2009, 12:15 PM
Hi Brett,

You have made a good decision. Just plan on being hooked for life and take Earles advice. Use the rod you cast the best and STAY to Fish LONGER. It is hard to be in the right place at the right time. The longer you stay the better the odds of doing so. I Am impressed with all the advice provided from many seasoned Atlantic Salmon Fisherman on fly size, type, sparse vs. not sparse. coler, weight, sucess stories. Presentation is also going to be important and for that you will need advice. Nobody has mentioned leader and Tippet. At that time of year, you'll want leader and tippet in the 8-9 foot lenght and 10 to 15 pound depending on the actual river height. You wil need big Tippet to throw those larger flies. I can name an advocate for a number 8 fly at that time of year but I am waiting to hear/ READ his input. (Where are you D B??)

On fly selection, my advice on flies is to tie up some of the big patterns mentioned, And A few Greent Butt dobles in Number 6.

Then let your guide Guide Choose the fly for you (even from his own boxes). Your guide will know the water, the condition, the water color, the hot patterns, and will provide you directions on presenting the pattern.

Oh, and one other thing, Get your arm in shape Before you fly over here, It's the fish of a thousand casts!


PS: HI Ann, No Secret Weapons shall be revealed so it remains a secret. :Eyecrazy:


Merde! (for luck)

brettfly1
01-15-2009, 01:21 PM
I'm realy blown away with all the advise from you guys,and i can't wait till june.Thanks for the tippet advise i was going to bring flurocarbon from 8 to 20 with me and take advise from the guide.love the ''fish of a thousand cast's'' quote.hopefully my hooks will have arrived by this weekend so i'm going to start tying some flys,i will try to put some pictures on of them if i can and would like to here your comments (be gentle with me :o )..

cheers
brett

Venture
01-15-2009, 03:48 PM
"Maxima" brand tippet material is tippet material of choice on most salmon rivers. It is slightly thicker and stiffer than most of the new "high tech" brands allowing for better delivery and presentation. It also holds knots very well and is quite hardy when it comes to abrasions.

I have learned some hard lessons while experimenting with high tech tiny diameter per pound test ratio tippets like Rio. They stink for salmon. The knots sometime slip plus they abrade very easily. I lost several big fish using them.....and went right back to Maxima.

After a thousand casts the last thing you want happening is a knot to slip or the thin 12 test tippet abrades........and your trophy becomes another sorrowful fish story.

Green Ghost...... DB is alive and well tucked away up in N. Richmond with his new honey and doing fine.

Howie

QuebecSporting
01-15-2009, 10:46 PM
Hi Brett and Al!!

Brett, below is a popular Pool on the York River you will fish in June.
http://www.quebecsporting.com/Photos/bl.JPG

I sense "Cabin Fever" in this post !

Thought maybe you guys would like to cast a fly online!!

(take notes brett!!) :roll:

Ann

brettfly1
01-16-2009, 01:23 AM
I sense "Cabin Fever" in this post !

Thought maybe you guys would like to cast a fly online!!

(take notes brett!!) :roll:

Ann[/QUOTE]


HI ann
''cabin fever'' you could say that:chuckle: thanks for the picture looks great.i'm taking notes ann and my note pad is like ''war and peace'' about 600 pages.:whoa:

BRETT

JR SPEY
01-16-2009, 08:11 AM
Let me further confirm the use of Maxima (either Chameleon or Ultra Green) in the 10-15lb strength. You will find very few serious Atlantic salmon fishermen who use anything else. I use copolymers and fluorocarbon for lots of other type of fishing, but nothing works better for Atlantics (and steelhead for that matter-at least for swung flies) than Maxima. The suggestion of 8-9 foot leaders is correct if you're going to be using only a single-handed rod. If you decide to take a double-handed (spey-type) rod you'll want leaders approximately as long as the rod. And there are plenty of rivers in that area that fish well with a 12-14' rod, especially in June. Almost all of Zone 1 on the York is good speywater in June, especially early June. There are many others, too.

brettfly1
01-16-2009, 08:27 AM
Let me further confirm the use of Maxima (either Chameleon or Ultra Green) in the 10-15lb strength. You will find very few serious Atlantic salmon fishermen who use anything else. I use copolymers and fluorocarbon for lots of other type of fishing, but nothing works better for Atlantics (and steelhead for that matter-at least for swung flies) than Maxima. The suggestion of 8-9 foot leaders is correct if you're going to be using only a single-handed rod. If you decide to take a double-handed (spey-type) rod you'll want leaders approximately as long as the rod. And there are plenty of rivers in that area that fish well with a 12-14' rod, especially in June. Almost all of Zone 1 on the York is good speywater in June, especially early June. There are many others, too.



HI the use of Maxima suprises me the CHAMELEON is dark and stands out in clear water the ultra green i have never used it.also it can go brittle with time as well.but that said i used it many years ago it may have changed.But i'm listening to you guys and how you fish so the maxima will be in the bag


thanks
brett

Gaspe Salmon
01-16-2009, 08:45 AM
"Maxima" brand tippet material is tippet material of choice on most salmon rivers. It is slightly thicker and stiffer than most of the new "high tech" brands allowing for better delivery and presentation. It also holds knots very well and is quite hardy when it comes to abrasions.

I have learned some hard lessons while experimenting with high tech tiny diameter per pound test ratio tippets like Rio. They stink for salmon. The knots sometime slip plus they abrade very easily. I lost several big fish using them.....and went right back to Maxima.

After a thousand casts the last thing you want happening is a knot to slip or the thin 12 test tippet abrades........and your trophy becomes another sorrowful fish story.

Green Ghost...... DB is alive and well tucked away up in N. Richmond with his new honey and doing fine.

Howie

Hey HOWIE!!!

Actually I am in Cascapedia but close enough... Did you get the link to the new webstite???? check it out....

As for Maxima... blurk... uh I know this will piss off a lot of the MAXIMANIACS but it is not all of that and a bag of chips as most would like us to believe. Sure, early June with MONGO flies is a great time to use it, however, you may not have such high or dirty water in early June, maybe it will be normal water levels and you will be using size 6 flies from the get-go. If this is the case, take some flurocarbon leader... there is a ton of it on the market. Use your personal favourite - something you trust. I find that each of us has his or her own preference for tipper mats, I use about 5 or 6 different types a year and I have found that they are all good. When we lose fish to tippet it is almost always angler error! Knot in the leader, scraped on a rock on the back-cast, hit a limb, poor knot, and my alltime favourite, tying an inappropriate fly size to inappropriate tippet size! Amazing how many people use too big or too small a fly for a specific tippet size! I still see guys tying on # 8 flies with 15-20 Maxima!!

Anyways, your tippet is important but not the end all for your success, just swing the fly, (any fly) the proper way in front of a willing JUNE fish and you will get it to take. Period.

Good luck,

David Bishop
atlanticsalmonguides.com

Salar-1
01-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Since Ann is uploading piccies ,here's the same pool, June '08 noon ,after 3 casts !!

Venture
01-16-2009, 11:36 AM
Hey Bishie Boy,

Anneke and I think your new website (altanticsalmonguides.com) is beautiful! I am sure Milt liked it too, especially with that s**t eating grin on his face in your photo section.

Getting back to tippets........remember that day we fished the Matane? Remember how badly you out casted me and out waded me? Remember who caught the fish. I was using 8lb Maxima and a sparse #10 low water rusty rat. What were you using :chuckle:

Seriously, this year I will experiment with some decent diameter flourocarbon in low strenghts. But I will never again use that Rio micro stuff. Forget pilot error. That stuff cannot hold knots nor take any abuse.....especially from a decent size fish. I broke each fish off within no time without applying undo pressure.

Salar-1
01-16-2009, 12:30 PM
Let me further confirm the use of Maxima (either Chameleon or Ultra Green) in the 10-15lb strength. You will find very few serious Atlantic salmon fishermen who use anything else. I use copolymers and fluorocarbon for lots of other type of fishing, but nothing works better for Atlantics (and steelhead for that matter-at least for swung flies) than Maxima. The suggestion of 8-9 foot leaders is correct if you're going to be using only a single-handed rod. If you decide to take a double-handed (spey-type) rod you'll want leaders approximately as long as the rod. And there are plenty of rivers in that area that fish well with a 12-14' rod, especially in June. Almost all of Zone 1 on the York is good speywater in June, especially early June. There are many others, too.
Jim
I'll agree with you totally here .I use a two hander about 95% of the time including for dry fly work ( I've been told one can't use a 2 hander for dry flies but I , and one or two others,didn't listen) I beg to differ.Nothing buggers up a trip on"finding" the taking fly and discovering you have none left and have to tye up a few more samples at night !! case in point ,last year on the York ,in HIGH water, a friend discovered # 6 Blue Charms were the ticket ! He had only 2 in his possesion !!
Howie
I'll agree with ya ,regarding the Rio crap .having said that , to of the lighter braking strains were exceptional !
Cheers all
Brian

JR SPEY
01-16-2009, 03:26 PM
That problem is easily solved IF you know the taking fly prior to going. Since that's almost never the case in salmon fishing I think having a good blend of patterns and sizes is more important. If you're willing to travel with hundreds of flies then the problem is solved. For those of us who fly there, though, that's tough to do and getting more expensive to do every day due to having to pay for each bag checked, etc. Two blue charms might last me a whole trip if they were well tied. That's especially true if I'm using a speyrod as I won't be braking hooks on the rocks during backcasts. Truth is, if you run out of a pattern there's often something similar that will work or one could stop by the store in Gaspé that's sells flies to see if they have any. No doubt, if you travel there by car I'd take everything I owned, especially if it were for a week or more, but I find I take less and less each trip these days when I fly.

As to the comments about using fluorocarbon, I just don't see the need. The fly becomes visible to a fish before the tippet gets there so visibility isn't really the issue it is with some other types of fishing. As to the comment about Maxima being brittle, I find it's far less brittle than almost any FC. The only thing I've ever come across that is nearly as effective for salmon is a material called Stroft. Unfortunately, there were many knots the Stroft didn't care for (which is also an issue with FC) and therefore I quit using it. But it was tough and had great strength per diameter. I salmon fish with a group of about fifteen or twenty guys at one location or another and steelhead fish with another good-sized group of completely different guys, and I'm not sure that any of them use anything but Maxima unless they're testing something new. The biggest reason almost all of them would give is abrasion resistance.

Green Ghost
01-16-2009, 04:58 PM
Hi David and Howie,

This is a debate I cannot leave alone. I find maxima gets soft in hot weather and weathers with time more so than FC. You have to buy it every year. I also Like FC for Dry flies as it is stiff enough to deliver precision casts. On the other hand, I know one crystal clear river where they use straight ten pound maxima all season long (except the very earliest of June) I had the opportunity to show the strength of FC once to the key proprieter on that river with a 12-pound fresh fish wrapped around a boulder in Snake pool in fast water. Retreival of that fish was an adventure and the fraying on the leader was severe yet it held. Even with 8 pound FC, I can put so much more pressure on a fish you are planning to release and I want to and can land it swiftly. For me the material simply is superior. I take the extra time to tie perfect knots and have no trouble with slippage.

Anyway. Look at the Entire subject with intelligent comparisons on clarity , diameter, visibility from August of 2006. I had trouble putting in a link to the thread but it is from August 7th, 2006 entitled "Flourocarbon line" etc. I gave away most of my maxima and have no reason to think the salmon can SEE flourocarbon. Instead what I keep seeing is their mouths opening for dry flies using FC!!!!!:chuckle:

It becomes personal preference, and I agree with Dave there is a time and place for maxima. For me that time doesn't occur anymore. :smokin:

brettfly1
02-02-2009, 12:12 PM
here we go here is some i've tied,only been tying a few months so all comments welcome good and bad..http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/brettfly1/DSC01033.jpg

brettfly1
02-02-2009, 12:18 PM
here we go here is some i've tied,only been tying a few months so all comments welcome good and bad..http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/brettfly1/DSC01033.jpg

and anotherhttp://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/brettfly1/DSC01023.jpg

Venture
02-02-2009, 01:04 PM
GG,

There is no debate here my man! Maxima will be in my vest this year for sure. BUT I will experiment with FC this season. Its that Micro diameter tippet from Rio that I must stay away from. That stuff in 10# - 13# test is worthless and the turle knot at the fly slips with any good fight. May be good for trout, but not a good salmon. My experience with that stuff was a heart break at best.

What brand name of FC would you suggest I put my confidence in? I will give it a try in lowish water.

Howie

Venture
02-02-2009, 01:19 PM
Bret!

I congratulate you on your bravery. Hats off to you my man! I would say you are doing well as a beginner tier.....very well.

There are a few common errors in the overall tying of these salmon flies, although I am not familiar with these exact patterns.

If you are tying wet flies and not streamer flies, I would state the following:

Your wings are slightly too long and over dressed. Most traditional salmon wets have wings that do not extend beyond the bend of the hook. In fact many very productive salmon fisherman tie very sparse and short wings......slightly shorter than to the bend of the hook. But overall, the tips of the hairs should be about at the bend of the hook.

Your tails are too heavily dressed for most salmon wets and too long.

Your throats are somewhat too long and too heavily dresses.

These aspects are typical problems for many who are just beginning to tie salmon flies. Just shorten up a bit, and sparse it up a bit.

When tying streamer flies, you will use longer fibers, much like the length you are tying.....but more sparse. Streamers have much different proportions than the traditional wet flies.

But dont worry......keep practicing and researching. Look on this forum in the Atlantic Salmon Fly tying area.......some great flies with great silhouettes are pictured there. Its the proportions and silhouette you have to work on. And you can always purchase some flies when you get up to the Gaspe. I am sure Ann will set you up perfectly.......

Howie

brettfly1
02-02-2009, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the info..its a lot to take in,just because i'm new to tying ..but i'll keep on trying..rather get it wrong now than in june:eek:

Gaspe Salmon
02-03-2009, 08:13 AM
Hey Brettfly1

Your flies are very nice!!! Great start to your tying career! Keep up the good work!

If I may suggest, continue to tie in your own style and do not try to copy too much from the books. A wing, throat or tail that is a bit too long or short will not be judged by any fish! That is for sure!! hahahha....

When you start to tie for friends and perhaps to sell, then you can worry about perfect proportions! For now it is for fun and for fishing!

I would, however, suggest you start using Alec Jackson, Daichi or Partridge hooks. They seem to be the best for salmon flies. The A. Jackson hooks are a bit more expensive but they look really cool and help your flies look cool as well!!

You also may want to buy a hair stacker so that you can get your wings all the same length... then again, it does not really matter all that much!

Continue to enjoy your time at the bench!

Best to you

David
David Bishop
Triple w and then a dot atlanticsalmonguides dot com

Earle Fletcher
02-03-2009, 09:42 AM
Brett,

To view some pictures of beautifully tied and proportioned salmon flies (they may be a little too full for Venture) tied by Charlie Dickson Jr., go to the "Archive of Salmon and Steelhead Flies" section of this website. Click on "Charlie" in the right column. Now click on "All Threads Started by Charlie" and you will get a list of all the salmon and steelhead flies posted by Charlie.

Earle Fletcher

Venture
02-03-2009, 12:53 PM
Hey Earle!

Thanks for the support! By the way, I think Charlie's flies are pretty much tied perfectly. Simple, sparse, and in proportion. Nice heads too!

Howie

Salar-1
02-03-2009, 07:22 PM
Brett
Your top fly looks tailler made for Quebec's North shore and I'll definately give it a try this July in very much the proportions that you've used .Methinks I'll swing it through the York as well !
Tyed a # 2 double with an outrageously long 3 inch wing that my Yorkshire friend dubbed the "Fookin' 'ell " and Fookin ell, it done did work ;-) although it did look like a limp crippled piece of rancid Haggis swinnging through the pool !!
Cheers
Brian

brettfly1
02-04-2009, 02:05 AM
Brett
Your top fly looks tailler made for Quebec's North shore and I'll definately give it a try this July in very much the proportions that you've used .Methinks I'll swing it through the York as well !
Tyed a # 2 double with an outrageously long 3 inch wing that my Yorkshire friend dubbed the "Fookin' 'ell " and Fookin ell, it done did work ;-) although it did look like a limp crippled piece of rancid Haggis swinnging through the pool !!
Cheers
Brian


Hi Brian
thanks for your comments about my fly's,i,m tying new one's most nights on doubles and singles.the thing is being a trout fisher i know none of the names of the salmon flys or how they are to fished,so i search the net see what takes my fancy and give it a go...i have tied my favorite trout lure on some loop nickle doubles i realy do think it will work in quebec (if it don't iv'e got a few buddies that will keep reminding me haha )but i won't post a picture because traditional it ain't:whoa: and i can see all the great fly tyers on this forum thinking the english guy's gone off his head..

thanks again
brett

Green Ghost
02-05-2009, 07:55 PM
Hi Anne, Sounds Like he has a secret weapon!!! :cool: Brett, You will also enjoy the scenery and the beer! AMAZING RIVERS!

QuebecSporting
02-06-2009, 09:09 AM
Yes I also think he has a secret weapon!

http://www.quebecsporting.com/Photos/bc.JPG

Ann

brettfly1
02-06-2009, 02:00 PM
No '' secret weapon '' well not that i know of:chuckle: just trying something differant , if it comes out of the box and my trusty guide falls on the floor in fitts of laughter,i might just put it away:rolleyes: ..but might not......looking forward to the BEER as well

BRETT

JR SPEY
02-07-2009, 11:44 AM
GG,

There is no debate here my man! Maxima will be in my vest this year for sure. BUT I will experiment with FC this season. Its that Micro diameter tippet from Rio that I must stay away from. That stuff in 10# - 13# test is worthless and the turle knot at the fly slips with any good fight. May be good for trout, but not a good salmon. My experience with that stuff was a heart break at best.

What brand name of FC would you suggest I put my confidence in? I will give it a try in lowish water.

Howie

If you're determined to try FC, I would use the standard SeaGuar that most of the striper and false albacore guys use. Not the Grand Max or some of the other extra thin versions. 12lb or 15lb SeaGuar should turn over even fairly large flies with little trouble. But again, do not use turle knots with ANY FC. The Duncan Hitch would be better, but I'd be more likely to use a non-slip mono loop or the very similar Kreh loop.

brettfly1
03-25-2009, 09:23 AM
Hello gents the weeks are flying by and my trip will be here soon,i did treat myself to another rod for the trip a nice z axis 9wt i was wondering what makes of lines you guys use rio,sa,ect any views on good and bad will be great
cheers
brett

brettfly1
03-25-2009, 09:23 AM
Hello gents the weeks are flying by and my trip will be here soon,i did treat myself to another rod for the trip a nice z axis 9wt i was wondering what makes of lines you guys use rio,sa,ect any views on good and bad will be great
cheers
brett

brettfly1
03-25-2009, 09:23 AM
Hello gents the weeks are flying by and my trip will be here soon,i did treat myself to another rod for the trip a nice z axis 9wt i was wondering what makes of lines you guys use rio,sa,ect any views on good and bad will be great
cheers
brett

brettfly1
03-25-2009, 09:34 AM
sorry about that no idea why that come out 3 times

brettfly1
03-26-2009, 02:14 PM
did hear from a friend the SA STEELHEAD line is good an views

Gaspe Salmon
03-27-2009, 10:22 AM
Brett,

I just came onboard with Guideline a month or so ago and can tell you that we have some pretty amazing lines to offer, you would not believe the number of lines we actually have. It makes my head spin! I have heard nothing but great things about the lines from those I have spoken with.

Check out the RS series line as well as the Tri Cast. There are a TON of lines that you can reference by downloading the online catalogue. As I do not want to overstep any limits in terms of advertising, I invite you to email me for more info. You can download the catalogue by going to 3xw.guideline-sa.com . you can also get some great info about lines by following this link as well 3xw.hooked4life.com

Good luck and give me a call if you need anymore info about your trip...

Best,

David

Earle Fletcher
03-27-2009, 12:49 PM
Brett, I fish with a Loomis GLX 9 ft.- 9 wt. I have a SA Mastery Steelhead and a Mastery Expert Distance line. I prefer the SA Mastery GPX. It has a shorter front taper and casts much easier.

Earle Fletcher