Fishing Regulations Gaspe [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Fishing Regulations Gaspe


petevicar
09-03-2008, 01:58 PM
I am off to Gaspe in a couple of weeks and I am trying to get my gear together.

Can I fish with sinking or intermediate lines?
Can I use sink tips?


Can I use flies tied on brass or aluminium tubes?
Can I use weighted flies?

Thanks in advance.

Pete

salmonguy
09-03-2008, 02:26 PM
Hi petevicar,

My understanding reading the regulations is you must use rods equipped with unweighted lines with only one artificial fly, not sure about tubes with metal bodies?

Here is a link to the regulations.

https://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/salmon-regulations/general-regulations/index.asp

Alan (salmonguy)

Salar36
09-03-2008, 09:15 PM
Can I fish with sinking or intermediate lines?
Yes, both of them

Can I use sink tips?
Yes

Can I use flies tied on brass or aluminium tubes?
Yes, both of them (for brass, confirmed twice by the MRNF on specific request about this)

Can I use weighted flies?
No, and no conehead

Green Ghost
09-03-2008, 09:42 PM
Interesting answers, A floating line is fair. A dry fly is a must. By the way, I believe it is No More than two hooks per fly (no Trebles). Is that correct?:confused:

petevicar
09-04-2008, 02:31 AM
I am confused. Following Alan's (salmonguy) link I find this:

Fishing methods

In most salmon rivers or parts of salmon rivers mentioned in this publication, only fly fishing is authorized. In this case, when fly fishing, you must abide by the following rules:

you must use rods equipped with unweighted lines with only one artificial fly*;
artificial flie may be composed of a combination of hooks that takes into account the size of the hooks illustrated to actual size below; such flie must never have more than three points;
flie may have attachments made of silk, metal wire, wool, fur, feathers or a combination of these materials or other materials;
flie must not have spinning or waving parts, nor be equipped with weights to facilitate sinking;
flie must not be baited unless stipulated otherwise in this brochure.
* Outside the salmon sportfishing period, up to three artificial flies may be used when fishing for species other than salmon is authorized. However, when fishing in salmon river in Zones 23 and 24, you must always use single flies with a single, double or triple hook.


The biggest size of hook allowed when the flies is equipped with:
https://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/salmon-regulations/images/data/hamecons_en.jpg
Note: There is no restriction on shank length.
When authorized, angling is practiced using a line equipped with lures, hooks or flies, baited or not. Hooks may be single, double or triple. A lure or fly counts as a hook. A line must not have more than three hooks.

Therefore I assume that an "unweighted line" can be a sinking line but it can not have any additional weight on it.


Treble hooks are allowed but less than size 6.
I am not sure how to interpret this "flie may have attachments made of silk, metal wire, wool, fur, feathers or a combination of these materials or other materials;
flie must not have spinning or waving parts, nor be equipped with weights to facilitate sinking".
Apparently flies may be tied with metal wire but no weights are allowed.

There is no mention of tubes.

Any further info would be a great help.
Thanks

Pete

Salar36
09-04-2008, 06:30 AM
"how to interpret this "flie may have attachments made of silk, metal wire, wool, fur, feathers or a combination of these materials or other materials"

This is the definition of what is a fly used by the MRNF. The tube is considered to be the support of the fly and can be made with any materiel usually available on the market. To avoid it, the MRNf consire that they should eliminate any material with density hiher then water; welcome to plastic hooks!! As already mentionned, this specific point has alaready been validate with the regulation department of the MRNF, is required, I have a .pdf of this confirmation


"flie must not have spinning or waving parts, nor be equipped with weights to facilitate sinking".
You are right


"I assume that an "unweighted line" can be a sinking line but it can not have any additional weight on it."
Exactly. But the current conditions doesn't required sinking lines, it may change, but a floating line is usualy used and much better seen by other anglers. A full sinking in the middle of a holding pool in low water is not exactly a good option to meet new friends

Another comment. This is fine for 2008, but everybody should look at 2009 regulation, since there are a lot of changes to come (expected in 2008 in fact, but not applied yet).

Fontinalis
09-04-2008, 10:50 AM
I had many of the same questions before I started fishing in Gaspe several years ago. The answer you get to most of these questions can change depending on who you talk to (especially about things like brass tubes).

To be honest, in all of the rivers I've fished there (York, Dartmouth, St. Jean, Petite Casc., Bonny, Nouvelle) I've never actually needed anything other than a floating line and flies tied on single or double salmon irons. I did get a couple of grilse using plastic tubes with the tippet coming through the side (sort of the equivalent of hitching a traditional fly). In typical fall conditions, the water will be clear and not too high, and the salmon certainly see the fly. I've had fish rocket off the bottom in very deep pools to grab very small flies fished from floating line in Sept. This year, the water might be higher than normal for fall, but probably not higher than early June. Even then, I use only floating lines with great success.

I have seen several anglers fishing with sink tips and even full sink (!) lines during very low flows in Sept in years past. They drag big flies through pools stacked with fish, and certainly their aim is to snag or at least floss fish. Definitely not sporting. :mad:

Salar36
09-04-2008, 11:22 AM
"The answer you get to most of these questions can change depending on who you talk to (especially about things like brass tubes)."

In fact if you asked the question to the right person, you should have only one answer ;)

Jean Pierre Dorion, Ministère des Ressources Naturelles et de la Faune, Quebec City. He is the man who provided the legal advice about the brass tube. Last year, Paul Mariner wanted to validate this information and had axactly the same answer than I.

petevicar
09-04-2008, 12:32 PM
Thanks for all your help guys.
I am certainly not interested in snagging fish and I understand about low water and holding pools.

i have just had a week fishing in Iceland, using a floating line with an intermediate tip and the an add on sinking tip. I mostly used tube flies, some tied on 1" brass tubes.
I caught 63 fish in 6 days, lost about another 50 and did not snag any. The reason for the brass tubes was to get the fly down in fast moving water.

Pete

Venture
09-04-2008, 02:14 PM
You will have a hard time finding fast water for your brass tubes on the Gaspe right now. Unless we get some decent rain here, your one inch brass tube flies will virtually sink to the bottom.

Our river along with most others are quite low and fishing a sink tip here will label you as a poacher or what we call a "sink tipper". You don't want to fish this river with a sink tip if you want to make friends.

Although it is common practice to fish sink tips, weighted flies and tubes in places like Norway, Russia and perhaps Iceland, it is frowned upon in these parts. "Sink Tippers" in these parts have honed their skills as great poachers and known for sticking fish right through there mouths. If you use a sink tip or brass tube on the Matane you will be ridiculed and accused of being a poacher. Regardless of the exact wording of the laws, the "fishing spirit" on most of the Gaspe is carried out with floating lines exclusively, along with unweighted wets and drys.

ABFFA
09-04-2008, 02:25 PM
I am off to Gaspe in a couple of weeks and I am trying to get my gear together.

Can I fish with sinking or intermediate lines?
Can I use sink tips?


Can I use flies tied on brass or aluminium tubes?
Can I use weighted flies?

Thanks in advance.

Pete

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your question would be more appropriate for spring conditions.

Don’t complicate yourself.

You are at the end of the season, the salmon are mostly all stack in the holding pools, the water level in low and the temperature can be hot.

So go light weight 6,7, 8 weight, lots of dry flies and # 8,10,12 and smaler single or doubles wet flies, are a must.

But just in case, those tube can be effective if Gaspé receives some left over’s from those big storms in the USA, so that rain can and will bring new fish in, especialy on the Dartmouth.

Enjoy the Gaspé.

Champ186
09-04-2008, 06:43 PM
63 fish:Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: Holy moley you wont be doing that in the Gaspe in 6 days. Whar rivers are you fishing in the Gaspe?

Green Ghost
09-04-2008, 08:33 PM
Nice Work Howie!!!!

The regulations should be clearer.

One can buy lines that drop at greater than 1 foot per second without any additional weight, no problem, Probably very easy to land a fly on a fishes back and "accidently" become attached. :tsk_tsk:

The discussion is now about Ethics and Care for the survival of the fish!

I hope 2009 regulations are more conservation minded.

Brass tubes are for Fijords!!!!!!!!!

petevicar
09-05-2008, 02:49 AM
Thank you again for all the info.

Pete

petevicar
09-05-2008, 02:59 AM
You will have a hard time finding fast water for your brass tubes on the Gaspe right now. Unless we get some decent rain here, your one inch brass tube flies will virtually sink to the bottom.

Our river along with most others are quite low and fishing a sink tip here will label you as a poacher or what we call a "sink tipper". You don't want to fish this river with a sink tip if you want to make friends.

Although it is common practice to fish sink tips, weighted flies and tubes in places like Norway, Russia and perhaps Iceland, it is frowned upon in these parts. "Sink Tippers" in these parts have honed their skills as great poachers and known for sticking fish right through there mouths. If you use a sink tip or brass tube on the Matane you will be ridiculed and accused of being a poacher. Regardless of the exact wording of the laws, the "fishing spirit" on most of the Gaspe is carried out with floating lines exclusively, along with unweighted wets and drys.

Hi Venture

I felt I must point out to you that I only fish with sinking lines and brass tubes when the river conditions make it necessary. I much rather fish with dry flies.
I hope that you were not insinuating that I may be a "poacher" because I would be very unhappy about that. :tsk_tsk:
I have fished all over the world for many different species and feel that I am an experienced angler. I have fished for atlantic salmon all over Europe and in a few Canadian rivers. I respect local traditions and am more than just interested in conservation.
However I do not wear blinkers and the purpose of going fishing is to catch fish.

Pete

QuebecSporting
09-05-2008, 08:37 AM
Morning!!

Here are a few recent pics of the York, Dartmouth and St-Jean rivers
(taken Sept 1-2-3-4)

http://www.quebecsporting.com/Photos/sept_2008_v.jpg

Waters for dry flies and nice currents for wet flies..!!

(Rain in the forecast... we'll see what happens...! )

Tight Lines (only a few weeks left! :rolleyes: )


See you soon Pete!!

Ann

juro
09-05-2008, 10:11 AM
As Anne points out... there's more than one type of water, more than one legal approach and also more than one type of fisherman.

When I fished the Gaspe (or the Pacific Northwest for that matter) there are waters that are best suited to fishing one way or the other but all too often the "religion" makes people feel like they must do one thing or another.

In any steelhead or salmon river there are runs where fishing a dry line is a complete waste of time and others where a sinking line is intrusive. For instance a slow clear holding pool verses and highly oxygenated rapid with bottom structure where anxious fish (takers) are ducking under the main thrust of current.

Current is most forceful in the middle of the depth column, lightest on the surface and bottom column. However the addition of bottom structure (rocks etc) makes the lowest level best for holding where there is current several feet deep. Fishing over this kind of water with a floating line is for pride or reputation, not success.

This lesson is well-learned in the famous steelhead rivers of the pacific northwest where people use sinktip lines as often as they use floating lines depending on the water. And no one regards you as a poacher unless you drag the sinking line through the quiet holding pools. And no one does that, well maybe one or two but it's not the line doing the dirty work it's the angler.

I know Pete very well and he is an accomplished angler who knows his water. In fact when I read of his numbers in Iceland I guessed two things - a great year for salmon in the north atlantic and the fact that he fished a lot of water the way it was meant to be fished which many anglers would have passed up with their floating lines.

Just a theory based on my experiences in Washginton, Oregon and British Columbia compared/contrasted with the Gaspe rivers.... but I might have to save up and 'study' his approach in Reykjavik one of these years :)

petevicar
09-05-2008, 12:17 PM
Hi Anne
Thanks for the pics. They certainly wet my appetite.
See you soon.

Pete

petevicar
09-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Hey Juro

I am very glad that there is no fishing directly in Reykjavik.:)

The Squire is like going to church compared to a night out in Reykjavik.:lildevl: :lildevl:
But maybe you and Dave should meet me there someday.:devil:

Pete

Venture
09-05-2008, 07:20 PM
Hi Pete,

Perhaps you misinterpreted my latter response. I was warning you of alienation, ridicule and perhaps being followed around by the Wardens on this river if you use sink tips, sinking lines, or weighted tubes. It is not the practice up here. I was not inferring that you would do anything illegal or unethical. Just a "Heads Up" that you will be looked upon as a deviant.

I too have used sink tips on some rivers in Russia and on some Western Steel Head rivers. Never did I have to use them in Iceland. As we all know they are necessary to use in heavy water conditions. But here on the Gaspe, they are frowned upon because most who use them are poachers.

The poachers on the Matane and Matapedia have devised a skillful method of using fast sink tips, a very long leader, and a very small unweighted fly. They enter a pool which holds many fish, cast up and across letting the fly sink, and then swing it low over the salmon. The idea is that the leader will run crossways through the salmon's mouth only to get hooked once the fly hits the fish. The fish is then hooked at the mouth (from the outside), making it look like the fish is legally hooked. This technique has been honed by the poachers. In fact just recently, several of our pools have been armed with devises that sit in the pools to snag these sinking lines. One is in Cap Seize and one is in Grand Tamagagi......two pools where poachers have killed many huge fish over the past few years. Most of the fish killed are very large salmon and most have been lined through the mouths as I explained. It took to Wardens quite a long time to figure this out.

Just got back from a day of scouting on the Matapedia with some friends. Water looks much better there than the here on the Matane.

Howie

Salar36
09-05-2008, 08:06 PM
Pete,

What Howie describe is particularly true on the Matane. The guys who do it since about 10-12 years are responsible of about 90% of all regulation changes or recommendations of changes since couple years.

About how people see the usage of it, in fact, some of us - I am- use brass tube when fishing in very cold and high water at the end of may or begginning of june. Later, high water doesn't require it since the water is warmer than in spring. Sink tip will be use by many during june or late september, with water being colder and only if water level allow it. The important thing is to make sure to have a low density sink tip. Personaly, I usualy use a sinking intermediate tip (1.5 inches per second) in falls, except if we have the chance of having the tail of a hurricane (and the rain coming with, like maybe next week), never more than 3.5 inches per second with high water. So forget a deep water express and extra fast sinking, I would be very surprised if you meet conditions to use it here in fall.

Have a good trip.

Bugman
09-05-2008, 08:46 PM
I must agree with a previous post ... it's not the gear that makes for an unethical approach, it's the dangler.

I was fishing the three Gaspe-town rivers in late September a few years ago. I saw a very skilled angler take salmon with deep slow drifts of a large fly in quiet pools. It was totally ethical fishing ... the angler could see his fly, and he could see when the fly was taken by a fish. He threw his fly to the side of the pod of fish, not through it. His fish were fair hooked - in the chops.

I also have seen a guy fishing a floating line with a small wet fly ... in a dead still pool. He cast across-and-down, drifting the fly deep through a pod of fish and ... BINGO ... hookup!

I landed a fish for him that was hooked near the adipose fin. This angler displayed his true spirit when he asked me to take a photo of him and his 'caught' fish. This guy was fishing a beautiful dry fly spot, yet he never tried a dry. After a period of this treatment, the pool was useless for a dry ... or any other legal method.

The fish were terrified of a fly line.

I fished this spot after he'd had a good go at it ... and had 'hooked' several fish. Throwing a dry, I would lengthen my cast, yet the fish would mysteriously be out of range as the fly went over. Eventually, I pushed the pod out of the lie and up against the far bank. Then, the fish freaked out, rushing all over the pool and coming out of the water. It looked good ... active fish ... but it was terrible.

I once spent two days on prime pools trying to get a fly anywhwere near a fish. Turns out, I'd been following a couple of guys that were fishing slow, deep and across with floating lines and largish wet flies. I talked to them on one of these days and they proudly commented that they'd been hooking a lot of fish.

I guess!

For me, I don't like all the work of fishing a sinking line. I'm no casting legend, but this is how it feels to me. Pull in most of your line, roll cast the rest up to the surface, false cast, false cast, false cast, duck, fling, shoot and do one quick mend before the whole mess sinks ... all to make one swing! And talk about losing flies! I won't fish my Atlantic salmon flies out west, 'cause I can't stand losing a week's worth of work in an afternoon (I'm a slow tier:) ).

I live in BC now, and there is lots of water out here that cannot be fished with a floating line. I've seen skilled ethical fisherman on the east coast who fished deep and fair hooked the fish they were after. As several have said, it's the intent, not the gear that makes the angler. However, Howie is right ... you are likely to be called a few nasty names on some eastern Canadian rivers if you fish a sinker, no matter how ethical your approach may be.

So, sinking gear can be fished legally, and it can be done ethically. It's probably up to each individual's 'Brass Factor' to determine if they can live with the chatter that it may engender.

Jim Corrigan

petevicar
09-07-2008, 11:09 AM
Thanks everyone for your input.

I will certainly heed all advice given.

Pete