New Sage rods for warmwater [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: New Sage rods for warmwater


Adrian
01-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Its that time of year when the mailbox gets inundated with brochures from various tackle shops and manufacturers. One thing that sort of jumped off the page is a new line of fly rods by Sage designed specifically for warmwater bass.

At 7' 11" in length they are described as "Tournament Legal". Priced at $350 puts them in the mid range $wise. I didn't notice one at Marlborough, but then I wasn't really looking. The price includes a custom bass taper fly-line!

It would be interesting to see how they perform if anyone has tried one or maybe gets a chance at Somerset this week-end?

Does this mean the guys in the multi-colored outfits and high-speed bass boats are about to start waving the long wand in the Bassmasters I wonder?:lildevl:

juro
01-25-2008, 04:56 PM
Eddie Howells (our "Eddie") was at the Leland Fly Shop booth and put one of those Sages in my hand. It was a cannon and at that length put the whole flyline out with the yarn on the back curtain.

It had a short head on it and a big fly with the bend cut, not something you see often at shows.

The characteristics that stood out were (1) it didn't feel short but it was and (2) it had tremendous power with a nice flex-feel that was neither soft nor stiff.

In addition to the bass bug application I was thinking it would make a good flats rod especially for overcast days.

Dble Haul
01-25-2008, 07:48 PM
It's nice to see Sage make a rod specifically designed for this type of fishing. They had me convinced that all they catered to was coldwater and saltwater fishing. :wink:

Galong
01-25-2008, 08:29 PM
I got to use a Sage rod for the first time a week ago at a private lake in Bangkok that is stocked with lots of big Barramundi. Wow, what a nice rod. The rod casted very easily and once hooked up, it handled these ridiculously hard-fighting fish with ease. I think my rod would have either broke or at least been damaged when these fish did their long runs.

This new rod sounds very interesting indeed. At $350, it's something I can afford too.

What other rods could compare to Sage rods as far as quality and strength go?

millerbrown
01-25-2008, 08:59 PM
Hate to sound like the devils adocate but........what is the big (or less) difference in a "bass rod" and other rods in that weight range? Would an 8wt rod that we use for stripers handicap us if we use it for freshwater bass? I think not. Let's look at the rod makers for a second. They are here to make a profit and that's ok but I'm beginning to think (due to all the info that they send me) that they are beginning to split hairs by expanding their market by offering products that are not really needed. An 8wt, 9wt, or a 10wt should deliver flies for largemouth or stripers. Their striper rods should deliver largemouth offerings. Their bass rods should work in the salt. What is the critical difference here? Maybe it's just marketing. I don't think I'm too far off course here.

Millerbrown

Dble Haul
01-25-2008, 10:46 PM
Serious answer:

I wouldn't be using a rod that's only 7'11' for striper fishing. The plain fact that they've tailored the rod length and action (regardless of weight) for throwing bass bugs and other wind resistant flies tells me that they're doing more than merely splitting hairs. Plus you'd probably be hard pressed to find a Sage striper rod of the same weight in the price range of the bass rod described in this thread.

sean
01-25-2008, 11:31 PM
Really Dbl Haul?

It is totally marketing, millerborwn is right. You can buy a FLi rod that cast the same for under $300. I guess it feels good to say I bought a 'warmwater' rod but in the end if it is a good rod it is a good rod, no need to categorize it.

-sean

juro
01-26-2008, 09:15 AM
IMHO...

Since it meets tournament rules if (big if) the so-called "bubba bass" crowd goes FF there would be less galvanized double-barbed gang-hooked treble faced sputterbangs impaling fish and I would be ok with that.

Who knows maybe Bass Pro shops might go from a pegboard of fluff next to the fire exit to worth stopping in for the fly shop.

This has potential. Instead of bringing a bag-o-bass to the weigh station tournaments miles from the fish's territory to be released at the gas dock, they might become touchy-feely fly guys and adopt a better criteria like "weigh and release". God knows there are HD video cameras everywhere in these tournaments to keep people honest. They can all watch their own movie at the trophy shack instead of the weigh-in drama. I'll buy the popcorn.

Keep in mind the tournament circuit has their crosshairs on redfish now, which has been revived in many places by fisheries management after the population was devastated. I hope they aren't gut hooking them for the weigh in.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Sage putting a product out there that applies to that hype-machine and I bet some of them adopt specifically because of the 'marketing'. If so, then that's good the way I see things.

If not well they made a rod that we, the real flyguys, might find an application for. Shorter rods are much better on the flats when wading and landing fish 100 yards from shore waist deep. Quicker loading rods with high control place the fly better / faster which is critical to sight fishing in semi-cloudy days.


.02

sean
01-26-2008, 08:50 PM
These 2 paragraphs are why bass fisherman would never become fly flingers:

This has potential. Instead of bringing a bag-o-bass to the weigh station tournaments miles from the fish's territory to be released at the gas dock, they might become touchy-feely fly guys and adopt a better criteria like "weigh and release". God knows there are HD video cameras everywhere in these tournaments to keep people honest. They can all watch their own movie at the trophy shack instead of the weigh-in drama. I'll buy the popcorn.

Keep in mind the tournament circuit has their crosshairs on redfish now, which has been revived in many places by fisheries management after the population was devastated. I hope they aren't gut hooking them for the weigh in.


Bassmasters will never go to fly rods. The point is to catch the most and biggest fish. Fly fishing aint going to get it done compared to what a good bass gear guy can do.

I would pay to see you out there though in a center console with a pink fly fishing shirt and a bandana around your neck. :chuckle:

-sean

highway61
01-27-2008, 03:00 PM
It may be a great marketing ploy for Sage (remind me to buy some stock) but in terms of fishing I'll take my 7 wt. Loomis GLX anyday. I have a 40 acre largemouth bass pond a short walk through the woods from my house in NH. Whether I am using a clouser or a popper, it gets the job done. My 9' GLX is by far my favorite rod. The only advantage I see is that the shorter rod may be better at pulling the fly through the pads. It terms of casting, it can't possibly equal the distance of a 9 footer.

Steve M.

striblue
01-27-2008, 03:11 PM
Rods geared to specific fish stike me as odd (I know all about the marketing angle). Next thing you will see is a new 1 wt, saltwater rod , for catching herring or little macks...or dangerious salt water guppies (Do they have those?). I had a nice coversation with Barry Beck a few years back and we both descovered we were still using a Sage 9 wt. for saltwater. I forget the make of Sage but it was the one with the blue color just before the saltwater phenom. My recollection was that it was primarily for salmon.

juro
01-27-2008, 03:44 PM
Kiss my bass! ;) ;)



I would pay to see you out there though in a center console with a pink fly fishing shirt and a bandana around your neck. :chuckle:

-sean

Dble Haul
01-28-2008, 02:49 PM
Really Dbl Haul?

It is totally marketing, millerborwn is right. You can buy a FLi rod that cast the same for under $300. I guess it feels good to say I bought a 'warmwater' rod but in the end if it is a good rod it is a good rod, no need to categorize it.

-sean

I wasn't trying to insinuate that there is no marketing involved, quite the contrary. But I don't think it's all marketing either.

BTW, I have no affiliation with Sage. :wink:

vtloon
01-28-2008, 03:53 PM
I've been watching these rods come on the scene with a good deal of humor. This is because my almost always bass (LM & SM) is a Sage (just Sage, pre RP/RPL/RPLX/RPLXI/XP etc) 8'3" for a 7/8. It has a slow(er) but strong flex pattern that's just right for bassbugs. So, maybe I'll shorten the grip 4", move the reel seat up and go get me a can of Redman, a sponsor and some decals.

Adrian
01-28-2008, 04:04 PM
I was really interested in why Sage, who seem to be pretty smart folks, would specifically come up with a 'tournament legal' setup? If it was pure marketing, I can think of much better ways to reach a much wider audience?

Also, being an "oddball" length I was interested in how it performed. My experience with shorter rods (including the tip sections of several spin rods :lildevl: ) is that they can generate spectacularly tight loops.

Quentin
01-28-2008, 08:34 PM
. . . So, maybe I'll shorten the grip 4", move the reel seat up and go get me a can of Redman, a sponsor and some decals.

:hihi: I can see it now . . . jamming the rod tip deep underwater to keep the bass from jumping and swinging fish into the boat and pouncing on them so they don't get away!

Q

chainsaw
02-25-2008, 03:14 PM
I believe they made the rod the length it is, due to tournament rules regarding rod length. I also understand that the special line that is supplied with it is more along the lines of a 10wt in size.
As far as the "Bubbas" go, you will never see them with a fly rod in the boat for the reason stated in the above post, that the object is to catch the biggest and the most, which a fly rod won't do. There's a reason that the Bubbas call fly fishermen " Fairy Stickers"

nmbrowncom
02-25-2008, 06:44 PM
i have not cast the sage bass rod, however my peacock bass rod is an 8'(eight) 9wt crosscurrent. it is designed for casting big flies and to wrestle with big fish in tight spots where you cannot let them run. i don't know about the sage but when maximum pressure has to be put on a big fish caught in weeds and running for the trees, the stout shorter rod has made a big difference. it has become my striper rod on my boat. the shorter length makes it a perfect boat rod.

Guernseybass
02-26-2008, 12:54 PM
I was reading a Lefty Kreh piece recently about these that said that it was only in the 1970's that SWFF rods went 9ft, and Brooks, Apte & Albright etc used 7 1/2ft rods for their landmark tarpon, cobia etc.

what goes around comes around I guess...

JR SPEY
02-27-2008, 02:00 PM
I have to say that the majority of tarpon caught in the Florida Keys in the 1960s and 1970s were caught on World Wide Sportsman fly rods, the majority of which were built on the J. Kennedy-Fisher 9' 12-13 weight one- piece blank. Since few sports had their own equipment at the time, at least for fish like tarpon, most everyone used the gear the guide provided and that was, more often than not, what's noted above. I don't doubt that many guys used other types of gear, but I originally rigged up for that type of fishing in the early 1970s and all my rods were 9' fiberglass. I haven't seen the article you're referring to, but at the very least there were a lot of guys fishing 9' rods in those days.

Eddie
03-01-2008, 03:17 PM
I think the really interesting thing that Sage is doing here is how they are marketing to a new segment of fisherman. These rods/lines are really heavy. Crazy heavy. How many of you fish for bass with a 330gr line? That's like...what? An 11 weight? Would anyone reccomend that a beginner start with an 11wt. line? Just about any one can cast this rig. It blasts right out!

By marketing the rod for the species, people are less likely to get hung up about fishing for bass with a rod six line weights heavier than they would fish for trout. Most trout/freshwater fly fisherman would probably fish with an eight weight for bass (after struggling with a six weight). Which rod/line do you think will cast a Dahlberg Diver the best? Especially for a guy new to fly fishing.

This is not the sweetest casting outfit, it is not delicate, and it does not cast especially long. It is accurate ( shorter rods are more precise for me). It is easy to cast.

The brilliance here is the line. Sage will probably fail at this attempt, but it is a great idea.

Grain weight solves all problems.

sean
03-03-2008, 04:54 PM
I would recommend a newbie fishing bigger flies start with a 12 weight line on a '9-10 weight' which it seems sage is doing which is a good thing. I cast these rods and they are really no beefier than my sage 9wt rlpxi is, sage is just marketing a heavier line for the rods.

Maybe the myth of high line speeds and light loads is finally going away and new users will start using correct weights to load rods. Spey fishing is and has been moving to grain wts rather than line designations which is good for the new consumer in the long run. A 9 line for a 9wt is no good to a new caster any longer. Rods and lines have diverged too much and grain weight ratings makes things easier I think. RIO started things with changing how the outbound lines are labeled (grain weights about 2 lines sizes heavier than they would be if marked by rod rating) and people seem to be enjoying those lines on their rods even though they are much heavier than they would normally use if going by a rod wt rating alone.

I just think Sage could sell more rods (which is the point I think) by marketing to a broader range with the heavier line idea. It simplifies things in the long run and is not just a freshwater bass thing.

-sean

Sean Juan
03-04-2008, 01:50 PM
My only point is that I think you will see the "Bubba's" fly fishing if and only if there is a pattern or patterns that can best be exploited with a fly rod.

I happen to believe that there are. Should one of them score high at an event with the fly rod (and some will attempt to do so just to have something new to market - rods lines reels leaders heck even tying stuff.)

Now I doubt I'd ever get one of these rods, and it seems pretty clear that sage is just using a marketing ploy - but its not targeted at us - its targeted at folk who think we are a bunch of pipe-smoking, tweed wearing, Little Lord Fauntleroy's. Its a new idea, and as a general rule I'm pro-new ideas...unless they come from the government's department of oppression.

JR SPEY
03-05-2008, 09:14 AM
I guess I haven't brought it up on this thread, but I've mentioned this on several boards where these rods became a topic. The B.A.S.S. rules specifically forbid fly fishing. They only allow the types of fishing referred to as baitcasting, plugcasting, spinning, and spincasting. The other major tour is the F.L.W. which does allow fly fishing, but also has no rules at all regarding rod length. So, except for some of the smaller tour groups and local tournaments, which may have a blend of the rules from the two major tournament trails, I don't see how this is going to have any kind of major impact on bass tournaments. I'm sure Sage did their homework beforehand, but it certainly appears as if they didn't.

shotgunner
03-06-2008, 07:45 AM
nmbrowncom 02/25/08

i have not cast the sage bass rod, however my peacock bass rod is an 8'(eight) 9wt crosscurrent. it is designed for casting big flies and to wrestle with big fish in tight spots where you cannot let them run. i don't know about the sage but when maximum pressure has to be put on a big fish caught in weeds and running for the trees, the stout shorter rod has made a big difference. it has become my striper rod on my boat. the shorter length makes it a perfect boat rod.



I agree W/ above post, Great boat/heavy cover length. Interesting that Scott has listed short rods in their concept stuff.. also dubbed 'warmwater'

3 Piece Rods
Warm Water
WW806/3
WW808/3
WW8010/3

7'11.5" actual measure.. Must be sizable projected market share or a new FF tourney trail coming :)