sharkskin [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: sharkskin


dry
01-09-2008, 12:25 AM
Hi, I bought a sharkskin 3 weight and 5 weight. The leaders I used did not have a loop so I had to tie the leaders onto the the sharkskin loop. One sharkskin broke after just 3 days, and the other after a week. I read on another bulletin board that a another user had similar problems with the loops breaking, and was accussed of being at fault for tieing the leader onto the line instead of using a loop to loop. Well pardon me, but not all leaders have loops! So has SA actually gotten so big for their britches that they will sell you a $100 fly line and accuse you of improper use for tieing your leader to the loop? I have used Cortland lines for 2 years and never had such a problem!!

fishmann
01-09-2008, 12:51 AM
Sad to hear that :frown:

sean
01-09-2008, 09:27 AM
No offense but why are you buying $100 fly lines without a knowledge of loop systems...seems a visit back to the basics of fly fishing knots should be considered.

Tying a leader onto a loop without a loop to loop knot would severely stress the loop. It is not made to just tie a knot into the middle of the loop and have things work, I am not surprised it broke.

Learning a simple surgeons knot to loop your leaders is in order. Then you can use loop to loop knots. Otherwise now that the loops are broken just cut them off and nail knot your leader to the fly line. You were not using the loops for what they were made for so just cut them off.

What I would do is bring the lines back to the fly shops you bought them at. Have them teach you a surgeons loop knot for your leaders. See if they will replace the sa lines for you or install new loops for you. The line is still fine without the loop, or just remove the loop and nail knot your leader to it.

-sean

teflon_jones
01-10-2008, 11:21 AM
So how do you like the performance of the sharkskin versus a standard line in other respects, such as casting distance, shooting ability, floating, etc?

Trucha
01-11-2008, 07:55 AM
One hundred buck for a line! I would like to see more opinion on it and to repeat what has been said before; casting, fishability, floating, etc.

dewey
01-12-2008, 12:32 PM
hey there.
You should really pay attention to Sean's advice if you are going to keep with flyfishing as a major activity.

Because a line's loop broke does not mean that line is total junk. Also, tying a loop into the butt of a leader is one of the simpler knots out there. Plus, you could cut the loop and tie a nail knot.

Before you go trashing a product, you should be aware of these things. It wasn't the line's fault.

That said, I'd question seriously the value of a 100 dollar line.

I have not cast it.

dry
01-13-2008, 12:30 AM
After the loop broke I took the line to a fly shop and they put a amnesia loop onto the line. It broke too. Went back and it broke again. Lost over a foot of line. Never had it happen in over 2 year of "cheap" cortland lines.

hey there.
You should really pay attention to Sean's advice if you are going to keep with flyfishing as a major activity.

Because a line's loop broke does not mean that line is total junk. Also, tying a loop into the butt of a leader is one of the simpler knots out there. Plus, you could cut the loop and tie a nail knot.

Before you go trashing a product, you should be aware of these things. It wasn't the line's fault.

That said, I'd question seriously the value of a 100 dollar line.

And as far as Sean, notice how when someone says " I dont mean to be the worlds biggest flaming asshole scumbag but...", they tend to be the....

I have not cast it.

sean
01-13-2008, 05:56 AM
And as far as Sean, notice how when someone says " I dont mean to be the worlds biggest flaming asshole scumbag but...", they tend to be the....

I may just be (and now that I think about it I totally am, good to be the worlds best at something) but now you are saying totally different loops broke, a couple different times and it is still SAs fault:roll: Maybe you should look elsewhere for the problem...or don't. Sounds like that flyshop will be in for making a lot of money off you in the future.

Oh here is the google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=h1L&q=surgeons+loop&btnG=Search)for the surgeons knot, Take 5 minutes away from breaking your loops all the time and learn it. Problem solved

I just get a little tired of the customer is always right mentality where people feel they can throw a product under the bus because they do not use it correctly. Which reminds me I need to return that fly rod I have been using as a walking stick, damn tip keeps breaking! Oh and let me tell you about that fly reel and these nails I was hammering with it. I cannot believe it is all dented up, and that fly line I am using to hang my laundry on, just does not cast the same anymore. :frown:

-sean

Swalt
01-13-2008, 07:01 AM
Personally I would not spend $100 bucks on a fly line. Good advice from Sean but I don't see where anyone has used this line other than Dry. Sean or anyone that has used it, what were your opinions of it?

juro
01-13-2008, 08:18 AM
Do people use those loops? I cut them off and sometimes the first foot of useless level line off too.

It takes me about 15 seconds to tie a nail knot using my double-ended needle waist deep in the water, which I need to do once or twice a season if that as indestructible as the simple nail knot is. I don't even bother with a loop connection since it's just as quick to tie a blood knot just like the other joints on my hand-tied leaders.

For me a line is judged by it's casting, coating (buoyancy, durability, dirt repulsion, etc) and core.

Like Walt said... how's the line?

Swalt
01-13-2008, 12:36 PM
I use the loops that are welded in the end of of the Rio lines. They hold up real well. I I pretie a loop in the butt end of my leaders, before a trip, and all you have to do is pull one out and slip the other one on. Just easier for me that way.

dewey
01-13-2008, 07:29 PM
And as far as Sean, notice how when someone says " I dont mean to be the worlds biggest flaming asshole scumbag but...", they tend to be the....

For the record, this looks like I had written this in Dry's second post because it shows up in the quote box. I did not.
I believe that is Dry's writing.

I have read on other boards that the Sharkskin is a good line. A few posters noticed measurable improved distance. All note that the line makes a noise ( a wizzing, from the line's texture) in the guides - some liked this, others did not. Still too soon to measure durability. No one was sure if it was going to be worth the $100. No one was jumping up and down that this is the greatest thing ever, but many liked it.

Bear in mind, the above is a secondhand paraphrase of stuff I heard on the internet...

sazan
01-14-2008, 07:21 AM
I cut them off and sometimes the first foot of useless level line off too

Juro,

Did you mean the first 6-12" of very fine tip just behind the welded loop ?
I think manufactures, like RIO, before they started to make lines with front loop, were adding 6-12" front tip to be used for tying a nail knot.
Over the time this tip is being reduced. But I have no idea why they still incorporate the tip with welded loop?


Martin

juro
01-14-2008, 10:57 AM
If there is such a level tip (most do) I often cut it off and blend a butt section that maintains the energy coming off the loop into the leader. Especially for saltwater lines where I am throwing heavier flies in windy conditions.

This is particularly true with sinking tips, which I build from shooting heads cut in half. The level foot on either end doesn't add any value to riding the fly lower in the column or turnover.

I have to reneg, I use loops sometimes... but nail knotted butt loops with perfection loop in hvy test butts nail knotted to the line. I don't use loops on sink tips because they snag more and break. I don't use loops on flats setups because everything is obvious in those conditions. Once a nail knot became as easy as a loop connection there was no benefit to it.

By tying my own I learned a lot about leader dynamics adapting them to situations. Leader design makes a huge difference in casting, presentation and even landing fish.

One more note - I wonder what % of the cost of a line is in the manufacturing process for the loop? It's a costly process both in fabrication and as this thread implies - service.

I have to share this true story... one day in the wake of the "River Runs Thru It" popularity I was in a high-brow fly shop and a customer came in while I was shopping and scolded the pro staffer for the loop breaking, saying "he lost a day of fishing". I had to shake my head at this guy - imagine not being able to re-attach a leader! I feel bad that FF businesses are suffering as the vogue angler vanishes from our waters after the period of explosive growth, but I am happy that more 'real' practitioners are regaining the ranks.

jimS
01-14-2008, 03:36 PM
Nail knots can fail on monofilament core flylines. That is, the knot can cut thru the outer coating of the flyline and slide off the core. Monofilament cores are pretty standard on both intermediate and sinktip flylines. Floaters are typically multifilament core with a large radius of outer coating. Nail knots, or even better, needle nail knots, are fine on floating lines.

If you are still inclined to use a nail knot, I would suggest you use a double nail knot and coat it with Aquaseal or Knot Sense.

Since I use Rio flylines, the factory loops have proved to be robust and loop-to-loop connections with a cat's paw provide a pretty slim connection. Flylines without a factory loop can be upgraded to loops with braided double-catch loops that are 100 per cent. Loop knots for the butt section can include the perfection loop, double surgeon, or the Kreh loop.

In on-the-water emergency situations, a must know knot has got to be the nail knot. While Juro uses a double eye needle, I have found that a two-inch long tube from a WD-40 can works well for me.

There is a host of approaches for connecting leaders to flylines, but I want the strongest connections I can get, and that is what prompts me to use the outlined methods.

juro
01-14-2008, 05:44 PM
Funny how we experience different results. With Cortland clear, Rio intermediate and Deep sea, and Scientific Anglers striper lines over the last decade I have used nail knots without said slip or cut-thru problems. I believe all of these lines have mono core. It could possibly be a function of the wrap count or evenness of tightening, keeping in mind that both ends must be pulled to tighten with opposite ends of the 'barrel' coming tight when the other end is pulled.

It may also be related to my removal of the level tip section which would have less coating than the end taper. I prefer to use a heavy butt section, 35-40# for saltwater, which might increase the profile of the grip, lastly I use maxima ultragreen which may have compatible material composition. Who knows :)

I have heard of this being a problem years ago with the "slime lines" of the past which I believe were an Airflo innovation, but since I use Airflo monocore lines with nailknots and have had no issues perhaps because of their excellent coating quality.

Another reason I prefer the nail knot is profile in the guides when fishing long leaders. On that note, the lowest profile option for braided core lines is the epoxy blind splice, which involves insertion of the butt section into the core a length before fixing with zap a gap but is not replaceable in the field. This is ideal for applications where a long leader involved pulling the butt junction into the guides, wonderful for greaselining summer runs on Spey rods.

Best to find what works best for you and use it.

.02

Smcdermott
01-14-2008, 09:04 PM
A couple months back in FFSW there was a quick article on a modified albright that I have converted most of my lines to, especially the tuna rigs. The problem with albrights I always had was the lock coming undone. This "new" (at least to me) version involved leaving at least two feet of tag and standing line after the albright which are braided together. You then put a surgeons loop in the end. This provides a very stiff strong butt section and still provides a pretty slim knot. I agree with Jim that for anything of size the nail knot is a recipe for failure!

Sean

juro
01-14-2008, 09:43 PM
anything of size :roll: Sean of course is referring to bluefin tuna!

However, a 40 inch bass, 10 pound bonefish, 60 pound tarpon or a 20 pound wild steelhead on a fly rod is considered to be 'of size' to many, which I believe is the more common interpretation of fish of significant size. The number of slipped nail knots in such cases, if tied right, is negligible in those cases at least as far as my findings would indicate and I would say I have a reasonable sample size in these areas to support that.

For bluewater gamefish, much more serious solutions are in order no doubt but keep in mind the vast majority of flyfishing is focused on trout.

So Sean, is that to say that the recommended factory loop or braided loop is the right solution for bluefin tuna?

teflon_jones
01-14-2008, 10:35 PM
anything of size :roll: Sean of course is referring to bluefin tuna!

However, a 40 inch bass, 10 pound bonefish, 60 pound tarpon or a 20 pound wild steelhead on a fly rod is considered to be 'of size' to many, which I believe is the more common interpretation of fish of significant size.:rolleyes: Let's get real here, maybe you consider those fish of size, but cut all of those figures in half and then you'll have what most of us schmoes that live in the real world consider "fish of size." :wink:

juro
01-14-2008, 10:57 PM
Teflon raises a good point.

The question was about a 3wt and a 5wt. In such cases, I highly doubt that a granny knot at the butt to line junction would be weaker than a terminal knot at the tippet unless really badly tied, probability of that so low it's not worth considering.

That being said, there are preferences, beliefs and experiences in play for mid-size species which if nothing else provides food for thought. This is the level at which I like to play, both the hunter and the hunted are none the worse for wear after a brief but exciting exchange.

Then there are those hunting Red October with fly rods in a whole 'nuther league. I admire and respect that level of play, although I don't have a lot of experience in that arena. Seems to get into the blood of those who venture there.

In summary, using a bimini twist for a spring creek is equally inappropriate as a standard albright would be for marlin. Makes sense to choose accordingly.

dry
01-15-2008, 12:33 AM
Do people use those loops? I cut them off and sometimes the first foot of useless level line off too.

It takes me about 15 seconds to tie a nail knot using my double-ended needle waist deep in the water, which I need to do once or twice a season if that as indestructible as the simple nail knot is. I don't even bother with a loop connection since it's just as quick to tie a blood knot just like the other joints on my hand-tied leaders.

For me a line is judged by it's casting, coating (buoyancy, durability, dirt repulsion, etc) and core.

Like Walt said... how's the line?

Casts Very Good, but is like using gel spun. Do not use it unless you are going to wear gloves!

Smcdermott
01-15-2008, 08:36 AM
anything of size :roll: Sean of course is referring to bluefin tuna!

However, a 40 inch bass, 10 pound bonefish, 60 pound tarpon or a 20 pound wild steelhead on a fly rod is considered to be 'of size' to many, which I believe is the more common interpretation of fish of significant size. The number of slipped nail knots in such cases, if tied right, is negligible in those cases at least as far as my findings would indicate and I would say I have a reasonable sample size in these areas to support that.

For bluewater gamefish, much more serious solutions are in order no doubt but keep in mind the vast majority of flyfishing is focused on trout.

So Sean, is that to say that the recommended factory loop or braided loop is the right solution for bluefin tuna?


Definitely bluefin require the stronger connection but I have had failures with nail knots on much smaller game as well. I guess negligible is a subjective term. If you found a need to find a good tool for on water repairs my hunch is you have had more than what I would consider negligible failures. You never know when the fish of lifetime is going to show up. Rig for it and you won't be dissapointed is my thinking. The problem I found with nail knots is that it creates the most signicant hinge point of any connection I have tried. That cracks the coating over time which caused it to strip off the mono core. With the albright the clinch is on a double line and doesn't create the finite hinge.

I have a Rio Big Game line with the loops but haven't hooked anything with it. They appear solid and I didn't remove them.

juro
01-15-2008, 10:17 AM
With all due respect the association is a faulty one, the tool was used less than 10 times in the past few years in the field of which 8 or so times were to repair bad connections for clients while I was guiding on Monomoy. The connections had failed for them, usually store bought braided loops. I recall more than once cutting off flourescent loops for them to improve stealth in mid-summer conditions.

Most of my usage was for new lines or the construction of loop connections per the step by step post I made in another thread.

E.G. I also carry a GPS but rarely use it while wading but when I needed it...

Again we experience different results. I am confident that my sample size and the virtual non-existence of problems is not a quirk, your results may vary.

Smcdermott
01-15-2008, 11:23 AM
With all due respect the association is a faulty one, the tool was used less than 10 times in the past few years in the field of which 8 or so times were to repair bad connections for clients while I was guiding on Monomoy. The connections had failed for them, usually store bought braided loops. I recall more than once cutting off flourescent loops for them to improve stealth in mid-summer conditions.

Most of my usage was for new lines or the construction of loop connections per the step by step post I made in another thread.

E.G. I also carry a GPS but rarely use it while wading but when I needed it...

Again we experience different results. I am confident that my sample size and the virtual non-existence of problems is not a quirk, your results may vary.

Got it. I certainly have learned my lesson with the braided loops and repaired a few line connections on the water as a result. Hopefully we can actually match schedules next season and hook up on the water for a little side by side comparison. Certainly more than one way to skin this cat with a lot of good options presented.

juro
01-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Thanks for mentioning that braided albright Sean, I'd like to try to hook something this season that requires it! I did learn a lot from this exchange which is all good.

Basser's slim beauty post taught me a great new knot as well a while back.

One knot that was not mentioned was the castwell knot which is crazy simple but incredibly strong for smaller applications. I used it for casting practice and couldn't break the damn thing when I hit trees or rocks...

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/animatedknot.gif

BigDave
01-15-2008, 04:06 PM
On the topic of braided loops: As JimS mentioned, If you make your own double-catch loops from gudebrod 50# braided mono, you will not be dissapointed. Nothing I have used is as strong (you will probably break the fly line first) and they slide through the guides like butter. It's a great conection for sinking and/or big-game lines, but the loops are slightly more visible and spray a little on the first backcast. Not what I would use on the flats where a nail or albright knot is more appropriate.

For trout of any size, I dont' recall ever having a single failed nail knot connection.

Sean Juan
01-16-2008, 07:09 AM
The double catch braided loops are what I use on all my fly lines and all my shooting heads. They are mostly made from 50# but I also use 35# for thin diameter lines like LC-13 and most running lines.

The welded loops will break long before the braided ones.

But to speak to the original point, whatever loop you use, you need to use another loop to make the connection. The only "knot" that you should use on a loop is the loop-to-loop "handshake knot." Anything else weakens the system just like an overhand "wind knot" will reduce the strength of a leader.

juro
01-16-2008, 07:23 AM
I use the braided loops as well in certain applications and have bulk spools of braided nylon running line, splice tools to make my own, etc. Also a critical part of my hybrid line loops.

Question for you braided loop guys... do you use a nail knot to secure the braided loop as I do?

BigDave
01-16-2008, 08:16 AM
I do one nail knot at the end of the sleeve and put a drop of aquaseal over it.

I also put a small drop of aquaseal where the tip of the fly line enters the doubled 'core' of the braid.

If anyone wants to give it a try, there are good instructions on Blanton's site. A folded (unwound) guitar string is really all you need for a splicing tool.

juro
01-16-2008, 09:39 AM
Cool thanks Dave

Now for an important question - have you tried the unwound 24 gauge D string (ala Hendrix et. al.) yet?

I am ordering a batch from Ernie Ball and will save one for you if you are interested in trying it.

jimS
01-16-2008, 09:52 AM
Connections to the front of the flyline have been well covered. Now, what knots or systems are used to connect the flyline to backing and backing to spool arbor for maximum security?

A loop-to-loop connection between the flyline and the backing is my preferred method for both strength and ease of changing flylines. If the flyline doesn't have a factory loop on the back end, then a braided double catch loop should be attached. Running line sections of most flylines are small enough in diameter to use 35lb Gudebrod braid. The backing loop is a 30-turn bimini in dacron, or a 60-turn in GSP. Make the backing loop large enough to insert a spooled flyline. As Sean said, make sure the loop-to-loop is a handshake connection.

Backing to arbor to avoid being spooled on that lifetime fish should be as strong as possible. The standard arbor knot is a poor knot for strength. Wrapping the backing around the arbor five times in the opposite direction of normal travel with a six-turn uni-knot is my preferred approach. Wrapping in the opposite direction around the arbor tightens the backing on the arbor to prevent spinning.

While we are on the topic of knots, the tippet to fly knot used most widely is either the clinch or improved clinch knot. Both are inferior to the palomar and Kreh loop, which are rated at 100 per cent in both copolymer and fluoro. A six wrap clinch knot is rated at 85 per cent, and the improved clinch knot is 75 per cent.

Sean Juan
01-16-2008, 09:29 PM
Jim thanks for that improved Arbor knot - I'll do that from now on.

For the braid, I don't use any shrink tubing I just tie a nail knot with 10# mono to prevent the fraying and coat that knot with Aqua-seal. It is important that you do not use any glue on the length of braid over the fly line since its ability to collapse is what makes the connection so strong. For a splicing tool I use a wire bobbin threader.

One question I have is does anyone else "fuse" their knots. Specific example when fishing in an area where there are Blues and bass with a sinking line I may only use a 1 - 2' leader of 40# fluro which makes an adequet bite tippet - with such a short leader seems silly to step down and add a shock tippet . A few time I've hooked into a lobster pot, rock or some other immovable object and had to break off the fly. With such a heavy set up its a bit of a crap shoot as to wear exactly the break occurs - so I have gotten in the habit of putting a second overhand knot when I tie a Kreh loop whenever I'm fishing around rocks. I figure if it reduces the leader strength to 20# thats more than enough and gives me a predictable break location if I get hung up.

I suspose it would be better to just tie a proper leader with the shock tippet, but hey so far so good...

jimS
01-17-2008, 09:53 AM
Hey Sean, why not use a short piece of Tyger Wire for the blues. I makeup a few wire bite tippets that have a loop on one end and some ratty blies already connected. With loop-to-loop connections, its easy to make the switch when the blues show.

Sean Juan
01-17-2008, 10:00 AM
Thats probably what I'll start doing, Jim. I think the difference in visibility between heavy fluro and thinner wire is most likely a non-issue.

bonehead
04-12-2008, 11:26 PM
Funny how we experience different results. With Cortland clear, Rio intermediate and Deep sea, and Scientific Anglers striper lines over the last decade I have used nail knots without said slip or cut-thru problems.

Unlike Juro I have had the slip-off happen with mono-core lines and seen it happen to other anglers (clients). Last time it happened was on my new Cortland 555 line which my good buddy at the flyshop took the liberty of rigging the way he always does: a nailknot and thin coat of UV knotsense. Can't remember what it was I hooked - bone, tarpon, jack, something - but it pulled right off on the hookset, leaving that sad little mono nub sticking out. Never again. I think on your standard braided cores (SA, ect) the venerable nail knot is fine, but not on mono cores.

Just my 2 bits to this old thread. I use the loop2loop method myself, but simplified. I double back the flyline and tie a couple nail knots w/ 10-lb mono about 1/2" apart. A perfection loop in the butt end of my leader and bob's your uncle. Now, I have had the odd occasion to do a field-fix of this, and it does take a couple minutes. By the way, I don't bother with fancy knotting tools or even needles or WD40 tubes. I just carry a little baggy with those fancy "cortland loops" from braided mono. I tie my nail knots old fashioned style and stick the tag end into the braided line and pull on the other end. This way I can wrap my mono fairly tight but the braid still pulls the tag back through easily.

So far this method has lasted pretty well, and seems pretty smooth through the guides, though I try to avoid that if possible. About once a year I have to clip the loop off and retie due to hinging behind the last nail knot, which is what I feel is the biggest downside to this method - the stiffness of the line changes very suddenly at that doubled line. But, it's a very minor concern for me.

All the best,
Bonehead

josko
04-13-2008, 07:21 AM
I use Albright knots, front and back. When tying to spectra backing, I do a 40 turn bimini in braid, then Albright double line to the fly line. I always understood this way I get the u-shape in fly line core to take the load. With a nail knot, you tie to the coating, then rely on shear strength to transmit pull to the line core. Trimming the flyline tag end diagonally and close to the other line keeps it from catching in rod guides. I lock the knot if tying to backing, but not with the bulky tapered leader. I've never had an Albright fail.
Do others see a disadvantage to an Albright compared to a nail knot?

A loop sounds great, but it makes a noticable splash, and IMHO, hurts presentation. I've also had several of them fail. (I guess from abuse. :hihi: )

juro
04-13-2008, 11:39 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about, my nail knots are quick, strong and stealthy.

They only fail where a braid would fail - a snag too high up the line for the taper or tippet to break (if tied right).

I suspect people who are failing knots are pulling the leader to tighten the knot and/or pulling the knot too tight from that end.

Both ends must be compressed evenly to form the proper shape, which is really two cones of compression facing each other. Just hold the line-side tag in the teeth and inspect the compression before going too far.

If you pull the leader it creates a single cone of compression pointing to the leader away from a single shear point.

An albright is weaker, clunky and never seems to tighten right with thick mono.

I see people with flourescent orange and green braided loops on the end of a clear line with a flourocarbon leader. OK good strategy.

You can tell when a nail knot is tied correctly just by looking at it. The needle lets the tyer form it perfectly and it takes less than 30 seconds to tie a perfect nail knot with it conveniently on a snap swivel on the lanyard. It's so slim it doesn't get in the way like that other tool which requires that the line be threaded thru the loops the long way.

To each his own.

Dave17
04-13-2008, 10:09 PM
I just saw this thread for the first time. Back to the line. I was able to cast a sharkskin on a casting pond out in CA that had distance markers. The line is slick. We were both throwing a 5 wt on a Z Axis and were hitting 100-110 ft without much effort. Not bad for a 5 wt.

There is no doubt that the line creates a whizzing noise as it shoots through the guides. It didn't bother me but I could see some people not liking it.

BTW There was absolutely nothing wrong with the loop or first 12" of the fly line

bonehead
04-14-2008, 09:59 AM
Hi, thought I'd actually post something relevant to this topic. Ran across this and also the original post on Winston's forum.

Indian Rock:
"I just talked to a guide buddy on the left coast that works in a circle of pretty heavy hitter, well known, some well published guides... they have all fished the sharkskin lines now for 70-80+ days and have come to similar conclusions (primarily 8-10 weight steelie and salmon fishing):
1. it initially shoots and floats very well
2. it doesn't hold up... under magnification they see what was described to me as the nubbins starting to be pulled back to create little flaps = lots of friction
3. it does groove the guides, one of their rods (a relatively new rod) has been sent back to Sage for a re-wrap for new guides...
4. the word they got from SA is that it didn't go through their standard product testing prior to market release (for $100 they can afford to replace a few until they get it right?)
5. they have all abandoned the product

Found this interesting. Personally, for $100, I'll wait till this has seen a few seasons field testing by others less fiscally challenged. But, of course I'd be the one posting this, since I'm in the midst of a SA boycott until they get their $#!t together. Life's too short, man... course, seems like a majority of the FF world thinks their stuff is the hottest since sunburn. To each his own.

Bonehead

grpierce
06-22-2008, 03:50 PM
I read through all three pages of knot talk and initially I was going to point out that any welded loop would fail if a clinch knot or something was tied directly to it, but I won't bother elaborate given the overwhelmingness of this thread.

I have some thoughts on the Sharkskin fly line, if you can believe I'm posting it here.

I bought one of these lines for my Winston BIIX because on the Winston rod forums, people were recommending that line for that rod. A week later I finally got a chance to get it out on the water. The first thing I noticed was that shootability is really increased. I could shoot 10 -15 extra feet of line with a so-so cast. The taper is very general purpose, but effective at both turning over heavier flies and relatively delicate presentations. It seems like a triangle taper/weight-forward hybrid in that regard and that's a good thing. The line has extremely low memory and is very supple. I never saw a coil the entire time I fished with it.. A Very Good Thing! I could care less about a little noise of the line going through the guides, but it does make some noise when shooting line.

Here's the negatives: 1) the line digs into my stripping finger and causes unwanted friction there. It reminded me of playing a stringed instrument. When I played guitar, I had callouses on my finger tips, and playing now, after I've fallen out of practice, I get raw fingers if I play too long. For the fly line, I could probably build up a callous if I fished every day, but I don't fish every day, so at the end of the day, I have a "cutt mark" and rawness in the crook of my stripping finger. Mind you this is not from streamer fishing, just managing line for most of a day. I didn't catch any sizeable fish on it, but I can imagine a large fish pulling out line, and causing serious damage unexpectedly. 2) the line, being textured, could potentially cause abrasion to the guide wraps. I DID NOT notice this happening, but looking at my finger and reading a secondhand account in an online forum (granted, that's not a very reliable source), nevertheless, that was enough to make me sell the line. I just bought a $600 fly rod and I'm not interested in doing damage to it with a fly line.

A couple slight negative aspects: 1) the line floats high, but when you pick it up, it causes more of a splash than it needs to. 2) when it gets into a riffle, it quickly starts sinking. 3) with only two color choices, chartreuse and blue heron (dark, dark blue), it would be nice if there were an intermediate color, between invisible and blinding. Perhaps a light blue or a muted orange? 4) expose the line to sand, and the sand grains will get into the micro-texturing of the fly line, and sand flying across guide wraps can't be a good thing.

Anyway, if you have tough fingers, like shooting fly line ridiculous long distances without much effort, and want to risk damaging your rod guide wraps, the fly line might be for you. As for me, I sold it and bought a non textured line.