Hooking Permit [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Hooking Permit


kyhnau
12-01-2007, 09:39 AM
Gentlemen,
Inspired by a previous thread (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=25530) (started by Trev) about "strip-striking" the bones, I would like to hear your opinion in this regard when it comes to permit.
Is a strip-strike also the way to go?

Bonehead explains very nicely why strip-strike works for bones.
Any similar considerations about permits feedings habits/physics?

PS: I have never ever seen a permit, but would not miss the chance to catch one (if I should be privileged enough to get personal with such one) due to some technical and/or theoretical shortcomings :)

Please share your thoughts

Have a nice weekend,
-Lars

JTWG
12-01-2007, 08:25 PM
i have caught one permit, and found that the fish did most of the work in hooking itself. Once i felt that the fish had the fly for about 2 or 3 seconds, i set the hook with two or three short strip strikes.

On the one bone i hooked, i was much more prepared and when i stip set, i jerked the hook right out of its mouth. fortunately, he ran up and ate the fly again. i think with these fish, you have to give them a second or two to take the fly and then strip set, don't set the hook as soon as you feel the fish. :tsk_tsk:

Trevor B
12-02-2007, 08:00 AM
I have never caught or even seen a Permit, but I have seen some video and they used a strip strike, Tarpon same thing. I experimented this summer with Bass and also on Carp and it worked very well there as well.
So I guess it would be the way to go with Permit ? It will be interesting to hear from some experts. :)

JR SPEY
12-02-2007, 09:47 AM
Strip strike is the only way to go. And with permit you almost can't be too quick. The bump you feel is usually the permit expelling your fly. You almost have to strike by watching the fish and anticipating the pickup. With bonefish the fly usually immediately ends up back in the crushers before it is spit out. That's not the way it normally goes with permit. By the way, I find one long firm strip strike to be more effective than several shorter ones.

Swalt
12-03-2007, 07:01 AM
My 2 cents.
I have caught one and missed or seen a few orthers missed. The one I caught was on a peice of coral in about 3' of water. He came off and took the fly while it was still up and you could see him take it and turn so it was easy to set the hook on him.
If your fly is on the bottom then you need to set the hook, strip strike when they turn up on the fly, don't wait till you feel him. You see that tail come up you set the hook or the fish is gone.

petevicar
12-11-2007, 06:08 AM
I have only caught a few but have cast to hundreds and hundreds.

I think if the big permit god is smiling on you then you have a chance if not forget it.

I have heard many different theories from many very experienced guides.
Some say: Cast very close to the fish and just leave the fly. Others say you must strip the fly very slowly. Others say strip the fly until the fish follows then leave it, watch the fish go down on the fly, slowly count to 3 then strip strike.

The only person that I have every met who could properly answer the question is Del Brown but he has been dead for a few years now.

Pete

Eddie
12-13-2007, 09:12 PM
I have only caught three. One on a stripped crazy charlie, one on a crab fly (not stripped until the take) and one on a stripped peterson's spawning shrimp. I think that the chances of hooking a permit while stripping a fly (the right fly perhaps) is probably as good a leaving it still. I think that it is generally believed that the fish take more flies than we realize. The permit are quick to spit the fly. I suspect that stripping the fly leads to less takes, but a better hook up if the fish does take the fly.

kyhnau
12-14-2007, 04:06 AM
Thanks for sharing experiences and thoughts...
Interesting that the strip stike seems to work very well for many other species than bonefish. I also discussed this topic yesterday with an experienced sea-trout fisherman (sea-run brownings here in DK). He experienced, that the strip-strike would be much more effective when the fish are "picky" and only hit the fly very gentle and with caution.
It requires some self-control and its a matter of not getting to excited and lifting the rod instictively (same goes for the bonefish I guess)

-Lars

Eddie
12-14-2007, 07:10 AM
After you lose the best (some times only) fish of the week because you lifted the tip on the strike...you start to get the picture. It can take a while to rid ones self of that impulse...especially for those of us who started fly fishing with trout.

Trevor B
12-14-2007, 04:43 PM
Yep that has been my biggest problem, lifting the rod, too many years fishing for trout
Oh those wasted years :)

Mat M
12-16-2007, 03:23 PM
Just back from Ascension Bay and am now totally addicted to permit despite not landing a single fish. Had them eat though and the hunt is really what makes this kind of fishing special. Between us we saw around 40 fish for the week and I had three good shots for 1 eat (and I am still kicking myself for missing that as I felt the weight of the fish and the hook didn't stick). There were about 6 taken by anglers while we were down there, including a double hook up. Most fish ranged between 10-25lb. The guides use some interesting techniques and there is more to permit than the cast and leave. I can't wait to get back there asap and chase them solid for a week.

Will add some thoughts tommorrow once I have had some sleep.

Mat

kyhnau
12-16-2007, 05:12 PM
WB Mat :)
Hope you had a great trip. Looking forward to hear some more details.
A few pics as well would be appreciated :tongue:

-Lars

tedjp7
12-16-2007, 05:21 PM
heading down there in February so I'm very interested in finding out this technique and what patterns worked best for you

Eddie
12-17-2007, 12:13 PM
If you are having trouble picking up the strikes on a motionless crab, try swimming a Peterson's spawning shrimp. Nip half the length of the tailing off (though a short strike doesn't seem likely). This has worked for me and others in that area.

Swalt
12-17-2007, 01:08 PM
If you are having trouble picking up the strikes on a motionless crab, try swimming a Peterson's spawning shrimp. Nip half the length of the tailing off (though a short strike doesn't seem likely). This has worked for me and others in that area.

The permit I caught was on #2 spawning shrimp. I also had another permit on for a short time with that fly. I have fished it a lot less than a merkin with better results. I don't nip off the tail. A permit will suck it in if he wants it.
So I have a lot of confidence in it now and it will be on my permit rod for a trip this Feb. As you said you can move that fly and don't have to just let it sit there. This was in the Bahamas and not Mexico or Belize.

kyhnau
12-17-2007, 02:48 PM
Swalt, do you have a pictures of that shrimp?
Is it anything similar to these?

http://www.feather-craft.com/2007MAster/images/2007M/1453.jpg

-Lars

Swalt
12-18-2007, 07:09 AM
Swalt, do you have a pictures of that shrimp?
Is it anything similar to these?

http://www.feather-craft.com/2007MAster/images/2007M/1453.jpg

-Lars

Sorry, I don't have a picture. I purchased the flies at the Biscayne Bay Fly Shop. Someone ties it for them. If you are ever down around Miami you should check them out. They have a big sellection of standard and currently hot saltwater flies
Your flies should work but this is a bit flashier.
Similar to this one but dark tan for the wing instead of orange.
http://www.danica.com/flytier/gallen/petersons_spawning_shrimp.htm

Mat M
12-18-2007, 08:24 AM
heading down there in February so I'm very interested in finding out this technique and what patterns worked best for you

Ok,

The guides have amazing eyesight and they love to hunt Permit. If you want one you have to dedicate the whole week to it but you will get lots of shots. Between our 2 boats we saw around 40 fish for the week and we only put in one full day on the Permit during which our boat had seven shots. I had three really good chances for the week.

The first was a big single fish around 20lb. It was the standard Permit approach. Lead the fish by 3 or feet, catch up to your fly and then I was told a long slow draw. With the wind pushing us onto the fish I don't think the fly is actually moving you are just keeping tight with the fly. The fish ate, I felt weight and then nothing. Devestated. About an hour late we came across a mud with Permit working it. We used a shrimp like the one above (very lightly weighted with b/c) and 6 fish followed it back to the rod tip only 6 inches under the water.

Most of the Permit we saw were big singles or pairs. Other boats found schools. My fishing partner had crab patterns followed all the way to the boat with the guide telling him to strip faster. The permit were moving fast. Sometimes the guides will chuck you overboard in waist to chest deep and you will charge after them to get into a position to get a shot. It is exciting fishing and totally addictive.

For the week there was over half a dozen fish taken by guys down there. If you put the time in on them I am sure you will get onto a fish.

If you want any more info drop me a PM or mail.

Regards
Mat