Yak fun. [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Yak fun.


FishHawk
10-06-2007, 08:22 AM
Headed out to Plymouth on Fri. despite the dire foggy forecast. Sun lifted partially as I got on the water. Greeted by an armada of power boats. I was the only yak in the mix. However, I was one of the few guys hooking up. :lildevl:
Small blue and white peanut bunker was the ticket. Got a keeper size bass right off that pulled me all over the place. As the sun got higher the bass got a little deeper. What a great day on the water glad I was finally able to pull it off. Thanks again to Jim W for his tips on fishing this area. FishHawk:smokin:

Sean Juan
10-06-2007, 03:35 PM
Sounds like a good time Bill.

I went out in the Tub, caught some little guys, then paddled to Stage to find way too much company. Finally smartened up and fished Monomoy all by myself. Plenty of fish cruising some in formation like geese or the Blue Angels.

Got back to the launch on the causeway and it was packed with cars, most with yak racks but didn't see a single one on the water - creepy.

Anyway see you tomorrow I have a plan, its in the vise right now but its a good plan.

FishHawk
10-06-2007, 04:24 PM
The Forum Navy has to get a least one more trip in before the season ends. We'll talk tomorrow. FishHawk:D

JimW
10-07-2007, 10:30 AM
Glad you got into them. I may have some more post NE blow intel if I get out tomorrow morning. These fish are tough to hook on the spin gear. I had the kids out the other night and I'd cast the fly rod out and let them strip it in, they we diggin' it.

MNTrout
10-07-2007, 07:13 PM
I was playing with the kids at stephens field playground and there were tons of birds working about 150 yars offshore at about 6pm tonight.


I might try shore tomorrow morning. Let me know how do if you get out.

MNTrout
10-07-2007, 08:18 PM
What kind of yak do you use Fishhawk? I'm looking to get one and cant decide

Adrian
10-07-2007, 08:39 PM
Way to go Bill! :D

FishHawk
10-08-2007, 05:26 AM
I use a Necky Santa Cruz SINK yak sort of like a Pungo. However, most people who fish out of a yak have Sit On Tops.A stable platform for fishing. Lots of good models out there. Check out Kayak Fishing Stuff.Com for yak reviews . A very helpful site when choosing a fishing yak. FishHawk.

Galong
10-08-2007, 06:40 AM
However, most people who fish out of a yak have Sit On Tops. A stable platform for fishing.

There is a sacrifice for that "stable platform" though. The way most sit-on-top kayak designers do this is by making the kayak wider and with a flat hull. That increase in width slows down the hull speed. Sit-inside kayaks are actually more stable in general as you sit lower in these boats... and, you don't have to widen the boat to achieve the same degree of stability if you're sitting inside the boat.

Almost all sit-on-top kayaks, and especially those designed for fishing, have a flat hull design. True, this is the most stable design, but again, as you tend to sit higher off of the water it is debatable as to whether this is really an advantage.

A properly designed sit-inside hull can be just as stable and much more efficient, so your ROI (return on your energy investment) is much higher. If you want to go farther out to sea or further on any body of water, a well-designed hull will be the difference between enjoying the experience and having to liberally apply Ben Gay afterwards. :cool:

I currently have 33 kayaks and only one of them is a sit-on-top. I've owned a whole lot of different kayaks in my 30 year paddling career and I'm not convinced that sit-on-tops have any benefits other than they are easier for rescue... (stepping up on soapbox now :roll: ) but then again, I can roll any boat out there . People who want to learn how to kayak properly seldom choose a sit-on-top over a traditional decked kayak.

For the ultimate in kayak fishing, a two-person sit-inside boat with you in the bow seat and someone in the stern seat who likes paddling more than fishing is da bomb! :hihi:

MNTrout
10-08-2007, 08:04 AM
I've been looking at them and I would agree with you. Any suggestions for a reasonable priced kayak for fishing given your 33 model experience

Galong
10-08-2007, 10:26 AM
I've been looking at them and I would agree with you. Any suggestions for a reasonable priced kayak for fishing given your 33 model experience

What sort of water you are planning on fishing? Open ocean? Protected bays? Freshwater reservoirs? Rivers? Perhaps a bit of a mix?

Do you need to or want to be able to cover a lot of ground or not?

What's your fitness level and physical size?

I'm assuming that you want a single-person kayak.

Let me know a little bit more about you and I'll try to help all I can.

JimW
10-08-2007, 10:57 AM
Fishing from the boat as you'll do in Plymouth - Pungo. Ocean yakking would be a whole other boat. As with most things you need to sacrifice in one area to benefit in others. The wide boat is a good way to go for fly fishing inside a boat. The open cockpit of the pungo has it's advantages and disadvantages. Personally I don't like a flat bottom boat, the primary stability is misleading and if you do start to go, you're going.

Best thing you can do is go to Billington Sea kayak right near little pond in Plymouth. billingtonseakayak dot com - They'll let you spend all day trying out boats. These folks are hardcore - drysuits and sea ice in maine kind of hardcore. But there are plenty of boats there to try and they may even have learned a thing or two about fishing by now. Give them a call first, I think they only demo boats on the weekends.

It's sort of like a fly rod, you should go try different boats and get some basic instruction. Don't skimp on the paddle, it's as important as the boat.

Now back to the fishing...:smokin:

Galong
10-08-2007, 11:22 AM
Very sound advice JimW! If it's fairly user-friendly water, the Pungo is a very nice boat.

Big Ditto on the paddle too... just important.

Warren
10-08-2007, 12:42 PM
I have a Pungo, & I love it. I fish out of it in the lakes all the time.
I am worried about getting in & out of it while fishing the salt water flats and bays. My big ass needs to be on solid ground to get in & out of it. I figured a SOT would be good for easy mounts & dismounts to fish on my feet in such places as Brewster flats etc.. especially when the tide comes in & you are in three feet of water.
My other concern is taking wave and having it fill up. The Pungo has a big opening, where a sea kayak has a small opening and a spray skirt system. I would assume the Pungo would have some kind of cover options too. I never gave it a thought. I just figured a SOT would be better for most circumstances I would likely encounter.

Are these not valid concerns? or do I need to learn more about kayaking?

Sean Juan
10-08-2007, 01:22 PM
I too use SOT's primarily for the concerns Warren expressed.

I don't often fish from my yak I primarly use it as a means of getting from bar to bar, or to access areas like the flats. I can easily get in and out of it in wader deep. I also like that I can store my gear below decks should it get dicey or if I want to try surf launches - getting tipped over is fun, breaking rods not so much.

Of course most of this probably stems from the fact that I am a fisherman who uses a yak, rather than a true kayaker.

MNTrout
10-08-2007, 02:27 PM
Everything for me would be protected bays and estuaries. Im about 6 ft 200lbs with decent fitness i still run about 5 miles 3 times a week.

mostly FF out of the yak since if its too windy i doubt id go out in a yak.

I'll try out the pungo, is 14ft the optimal size?

thanks

JimW
10-08-2007, 03:45 PM
Not sure how long my Pungo is, there was only the one model when I made the purchase. I don't know about the newer models, I think you've got to jump in and try them out.


My other concern is taking wave and having it fill up. The Pungo has a big opening,
Been there, done that :hihi: - ask Art Burton. I was wishing the pungo had rear bulkhead that afternoon.:o
BTW MNTrout - you'll need a pump.

Launching in the surf may not be one of the advantages of a sit in.

I think if you're going to fish from the boat the sit in has a lot of advantages. If you're going to be getting in and out of it in anything more than knee deep water it will be difficult with a sit in (SINK).

The pungo does have nylon skirt with a zip and velcro closure that allow one to strip onto or into the boat depending on the wind. We're no talking a rolling neoprene skirt but it will keep the waves out of the boat.

I defer to those with more knowledge of both styles SINK and SOT as to which is better. I only know for my needs in Plymouth the SINK fits the bill for me.

I ended up getting a power boat as seems to be the progression but I sure learned a lot fishing from the yak that would have been overlooked from a bigger boat. Yakking lends itself to more careful examination of the bottom structure, the bait and certainly the currents. You can often sit right in the middle of a blitz and not spook the fish in the slightest.
A vivid memory is that of pods of albies racing right under the pungo, only 2-3' below the surface, their eye's in particular are burned into my memory.

Gotta love the yak.

Galong
10-08-2007, 08:49 PM
Yep, those are certainly legitimate concerns. A spray skirt would solve the problem about waves washing over and filling the boat.

There are different ways (self rescue techniques) to get into a capsized boat: a paddle float assisted re-entry, re-entry and roll, a stirrup and the cowboy shuffle. Physical size and age can be factors in the success rate for some of these. The stirrup re-entry is what heavier/older folks use in this case.

The Pungo doesn't have bulkheads fore and aft? Yikes, that's not good... nor safe. For boats that aren't supplied with bulkheads, the standard practice is to put flotation bags in there to fill the void.

I can certainly appreciate the fact that not everyone who uses a kayak is really interested in becoming a highly skilled kayaker... I was trying to be a bit tongue-in-cheek before... maybe I can across as a wise-guy... sorry :o But, for those who want to learn a progress, a sit inside kayak is definitely the way to go. And what I said about stability and design issues is valid.

I reckon it all breaks down to how and where you're going to use the kayak and whether or not you're interested in enjoying paddling as much as fishing. I don't mind sit-on-tops, but I've only got one.

tomd
10-11-2007, 02:34 AM
I bought my pungo 6 or 7 yrs ago.. the old one was 12' now there is the 12' or 14' all things being equal go 14' you'll be happier in bigger water. Billington let me try 12-15 (not sure) kayaks before I bought. I also tried some at Charles River Rec. everyone was pushing the pungo.. but I kept an open mind... and ended up liking the Pungo twice as much as any other yak.. but you might hate it. I do use bags in mine to take up that space. and I've thought about making closed cell foam bulkheads on my own.

Tom D

Galong
10-11-2007, 05:26 AM
Yep, if you can install permanent structural foam walls that would be the safest option. Bags can burst.

FishHawk
10-11-2007, 07:03 AM
I would also recommend try before you buy. There are still a lot of guys out there that like their Sit On Tops. It's a never ending argument. Both have equal merits. As with any style of yaks there are trade offs. So , I wouldn't rule out a Sit On Top just yet. FishHawk

Disclaimer, I own a Sit In Yak as stated in the thread. However, I can see the advantage of a Sit On Top.

Galong
10-11-2007, 07:25 AM
Anything that gets you out on the water is good isn't it :smokin:

If you go out alone, it might make more sense to get a sit on top. If you don't particularly care about speed, you could get a sit on top. If you have bad hips or knees and need to be able to move around in order to be comfortable, a sit on top makes sense. If you crave a wicked sunburn on your shins, by all means, get a sit on top. [tongue planted firmly in cheek on this last one]

neastfly
10-11-2007, 11:14 PM
One boat you have to try is the Hobie Revolution. I've fished from this platform most days this season. The ability pedal as opposed to paddle is huge, particularly for the fly fisher (line management). I've been in all types of water conditions this season and have covered up to 14 miles in a day. Best purchase I have ever made.

Purists often knock these boats, which is fine by me. I take no offense; I'm a fisherman, not a kayaker.

Galong
10-12-2007, 02:06 AM
One boat you have to try is the Hobie Revolution. I've fished from this platform most days this season. The ability pedal as opposed to paddle is huge, particularly for the fly fisher (line management). I've been in all types of water conditions this season and have covered up to 14 miles in a day. Best purchase I have ever made.

Purists often knock these boats, which is fine by me. I take no offense; I'm a fisherman, not a kayaker.

I've seen these and would love to try one. I worry about the 'fins' in shallow water or perhaps a shallow rock that's near the surface. Have you ever hit anything? If so, what happened to the fins?

The concept is certainly cool and I saw one of these at a trade show in Bangkok a few months ago. It looked pretty darn sturdy.

All the best,
the Purist :biggrin:

neastfly
10-12-2007, 06:56 PM
They are actually quite durable. The standard fins can still bring you pretty shallow. The only time I have made contact is when I have tried to squeek over a sand bar. The fins hug the hull when not in use, so if needed you can grab the paddle and go over something.

When landing you can pull the fins up or take the whole drive in a second or two.

Galong
10-12-2007, 09:00 PM
Hey Neastfly,

Thanks for the info. Retractable fins!... how cool is that!

That boat sounds better and better. I'm gonna have to try one somehow. I used to race bicycles a long time ago too and I still ride a lot, so my legs are a lot stronger than my upper body (as with everyone) and the thought of getting to fish without a paddle sounds intriguing. I'm guessing that you still have a paddle onboard to make corrections when the wind moves you around a bit. Have you considered a small hand paddle for this? When I'm fishing I often take a two-piece paddle apart and just use half to make angle changes, that way I don't have to put my rod down... as I can do that with one hand.

Ciao

neastfly
10-13-2007, 10:07 PM
The paddle straps to the side of the boat. I use it to....Hmmm.... I never use paddle! The rudder system works fine (and it can be upgraded to a larger fin if you like) for the boat in the wind. Plus, when it is windy, it is the air drag on the paddle that often causes the problem for kayakers. Occasionally I use the paddle for launching and landing, but rarely do I use on the water.

Galong
10-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Plus, when it is windy, it is the air drag on the paddle that often causes the problem for kayakers.

Nope, boats tend to 'weathercock' in wind and it's the surface area above the waterline that is the main factor in a boat being adversely affected by wind. Yes, if you've got your paddle in a position where the blade catches wind it will contribute, but the surface area of a paddle blade when compared to that of the entire boat makes it a smallish factor.

Galong
10-13-2007, 10:19 PM
Plus, when it is windy, it is the air drag on the paddle that often causes the problem for kayakers.

Hmm, if you're talking about the paddle being a factor while you're paddling, then you need a feathered paddle. Feathering was invented by the Brits to combat this situation.

When you're paddling into a wind, a feathered paddle slices through the air. When the wind is on your beam, an unfeathered paddle is best, but if you only have a feathered paddle, you can simply lower your stroke angle to minimize the adverse affect.

Touring blade, which are smaller in surface area, are also helpful in wind.

neastfly
10-14-2007, 12:22 AM
I take no offense; I'm a fisherman, not a kayaker.

As I said, I'm a fisher not a yaker... This is what I hear from my fishing buddies who are whining on windy days.

When it comes to wind, my primary concerns are the associated waves that come along with the wind and whether I'm going to be able to cast a fly! Fortunately, the New England coast offers lots of options.

Galong
10-14-2007, 12:46 AM
As I said, I'm a fisher not a yaker... This is what I hear from my fishing buddies who are whining on windy days.

Yep, I hear ya. Weathercocking is the tendency for a boat to turn into the wind... so your bow would be facing the direction that the wind is coming from. Once there it usually stays. This would make fishing from a decked boat (sit inside) more difficult. A sit on top fisherman could swing his/her legs over the side of the kayak and cast easier.

Luckily where I fish it's always easy to find deep coves that are sheltered.