: two handed flyrod and what am I doing!!??
08-16-2007, 07:50 AM
I am new to this forum, and wanted some advice on a good link or website which would introduce me to two handed casting. I have an Orvis Trident TLS, 12'6" three piece rod and reel which I purchased last year, and want to begin learning how to use. Salmon are coming in now and steelhead season is around the corner so if anyone has some advise it would be appreciated. BTW my local waters are the blue Ribbon trout streams in Michigan!
Welcome to the forum Bill,
I am a FFF certified two-handed casting instructor and love to talk about the subject but you will get the most interactive chatter on the topic on the speypages.com website.
If you have any specific questions fire away.
As a general recommendation, check out the various videos most notably Simon Gawesworth's new DVD from Rio.
08-16-2007, 09:41 AM
Wow, fast reply! Thanks juro, and yeah, I was wondeirng is that the three disc dvd...i believe its like 50$? The orvis dealer in town has it, I will have to be extra nice to my wife and maybe just get it and watch...I am also thinkin' we have a great little river about 5 minutes away and I should just get out there and experiment...my guess is with the weight forward floating line that is on there it should be able to handle nymphs , and maybe even some bigger bass bugs.
I will keep checking this sight out, but will also check out the spey website too!
Thanks again, Bill:)
08-17-2007, 02:08 AM
Make sure the line you have is a spey line because the weight of spey line is much higher than a regular single-hand WF line. Or put another way, a standard WF line will not load a 2-hand rod properly for spey casting, but a spey line does. I also recommend speypages.com as Juro did. There are also a fair number of good, experience spey casters here as well, so as Juro said, ask away.
08-17-2007, 08:55 AM
Thanks flytyer, I bought this setup at a local bait and tackle place in Lansing, MIchigan, and I don't know for sure but have to believe that since it is Orvis stuff it must have the spey line on it. the reel says "Spey" on it, and looks like the older "battenkill" models with the grey metalic look. My experience with Orvis is that they do it right. I will probably get some sinking line though for the salmonids so I will make sure to bring my reel and rod along for the purchase...
Well, I got out there last night and I feel I am fighting the rod a little but I am pretty sure this setup has spey line because I was very successful at 50-60 foot casts and occasionally a 70!!:cool: I was throwing a helgramite size 8, and also a beadhead crayfish . when I turned to a bass popper it was a lot more difficult to get it out there, which is normal I guess...two handers aren't probably built to chuck those wind resistent bugs. It was great to get the feel of the rod though, and one nice thing I noticed was that i could strip line in and pinch it off, pull the rod tip up over my head, grab the butt with myleft hand (I'm right handed) and cast, unpinch, and the slack line in the water would shoot right through the rod...
(sorry about the poor narrative...) Anyway, don't care if I'm doing it right at this point, but trying to just get the feel of it, and I believe if I get a couple pointers it will probably help me out a lot, so I am going to try to get the guy from Orvis to give me a less on in the parking lot this weekend, and maybe get into a class or two. Sure is a lot of fun, and can't wait for the Salmon to start running...planning on a trip to the Pere Marquette in mid september. Should be a bloody expert by then , eh?:lildevl:
08-17-2007, 09:42 AM
Note: Geardaddy37, I hit the send button before I saw your reply -- looks like you have this figured out already.
All good advice in this thread, however I’d like to throw in a few cautions.
First you mentioned fishing bassbugs. If you plan to Spey cast them, be aware that these flies can be tricky to Spey cast as they catch water, when lifted off the anchor, and can screw up the cast. These flies would just about be the worst for a new Spey caster to use as they’d be a source of constant frustration. Weighted flies would be about the second worst thing to use when learning to Spey cast.
Second thing would be to define your fishing situation as much as practical when asking for specific advice – how far you’ll have to cast, how deep you have to go, slow or fast currents, what species of fish, preferred terminal tackle – that sort of thing.
You have the rod and you’re getting the DVDs for instruction – the next step is the line and this part is more critical than it is in the single hand casting world. The wrong line, either for the rod, of the fishing situation, will also be a source of constant frustration.
Most of us who fish two-handers in North America, are swinging flies for steelhead, typically casting somewhere between 50’ and 80’, so most Spey lines on our market today are optimized for this sort of fishing. Consequently, if you’re planning to fish shorter distances with indicator, splitshot and weighted nymphs, then alternatives enter the picture.
Lastly, be cautious of advice from those who are slavishly loyal to a particular brand or type of line system. I ran afoul of this early in my two-handed career and it cost me a lot of time, money, and frustration before it was finally sorted out. The people you want to listen to are those who take the time to find out how you want to fish before they offer specific advice on tackle. Experienced guys like Juro and Flytyer won’t steer you wrong.
08-17-2007, 10:00 AM
Peter good advise is always good to have acknowlledged...thanks! :)
08-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Sounds like you have been figuring out how to spey cast pretty well by yourself. Using the bottom hand to "pull" the rod butt down as you make a spey cast is a very good way to impart extra energy into the cast. It is something many experienced spey casters do.
Regarding a sinking line. A sinktip or more accurately, several sinktips of different sink rates are a far better alternative in most situations than using a full sinking line. It is very easy to convert your floating spey line into an interchangeable tips line, which makes it very easy to change from floating to sinking or one sink rate to another sink rate by simply unlooping the 15' tip and looping on a different one. If you use the search function of the site and do a search for "line loops", you will find quite a few instructions on different ways to do this.
08-19-2007, 08:21 AM
Thanks flytyer. I will check into these line loops. As you may know the trick is to get the fly down into the bottom of the places where the salmon and the steelies are, and with the current being what it is if I don't have it correctly the presentation is off and I just end up with a sore arm...on the other hand tying a hefty weight 8 or 10 ft up on my tippet and playing chuck and duck has been known to have its pros and cons, but I would rather at least try a sink tip line and see if I can utilize the rod more comfortably. In Michigan we don't have the huge tailwaters like the guys on the coast and I'm usually fishing in a pretty thin stretch of fast water... My 7 weight Orvis TLS may be a bit light for Salmon...what do folks think? Anyone use a 7 weight opn these freight trains? I have to believe that the hook or line would fail before the rod would blow out though... Thanks for your input.
PS: This is a great website...thanks to all of you who contribute so's a guy like me can have something to do on rainy days!:)
08-19-2007, 12:00 PM
My T&T 1307-3 landed a 31 lb. Atlantic in 5 minutes in June 2006 on Gaspe, while fishing with Malbaie River Outfitters.
I used a Rio Skagit 650 with a 12-wt floating tip from a WindCutter 11.12.13 set. Total grain weight 650+182=832 grains. Head and tip length 26+17=43-feet. This outfit casts effortlessly and is especially effective on small rivers because very little of the Skagit 650 head need be outside the tiptop rod guide to cast a perfect line.
The leader was 10-feet of Rio MAX [≈ 17 lb] tied to a green fly on a double hook.
This setup will turn over a Volkswagen if need be, but is capable of quite gentle presentations with long leaders.
It is a superb single-spey line for casts to medium range. This line setup on Gaspe's rivers really sold me on the single spey cast as the most beautiful, effortless and rewarding method of fishing. Once mastering it with this short line, I was then able to move to longer fly lines without frustration. I will never forget my week on Gaspe using the single almost exclusively.
08-28-2007, 11:36 AM
that sounds very cool Bob, looking forward to learning this craft!