Wire vs. Flouro (pike) [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Wire vs. Flouro (pike)


Jamey McLeod
05-02-2007, 07:09 PM
Hooked into a few toothy critters this evening on the harbor out here. Lost a few also as I wasn't prepared for dealing with a mouth built by Black and Decker.

Wondering if I could get away with using some 60lb flourocarbon for a bite guard, or I should just use some wire.

Also, I have some 7 strand nylon coated 27# wire sitting here, seems to cut pretty easily with scissors, will it hold up?

Dble Haul
05-03-2007, 10:06 AM
I use 50lb fluoro and very rarely get bitten off by pike. The fluoro also doesn't discourage bites by other species that might be wire shy, like smallmouth bass.

If you use fluoro, check it after every fish caught. If there are any nicks or abrasions, retie.

Manitou
05-03-2007, 09:17 PM
I have been fishing for pike intensively since the late 80 and have this recipe for leaders

Size of the pike you are targeting decides what type of leader to use

small hammer handle pike heavy mono or fluoro is quite fine but check for nicks often

MEdium pike from 24 to 34 inch you can get away with heavy mono or fluoro or even kevlar type leaders and again watch for the nicks

Big pike 34 to 50 inch i use wire only 15 pounds tyger leader or surflon is fine, the reason i dont use mono or other type of leasers is very simple you will lose a fish every 2 to 3 hit cause they will swallow the hook and cut the leader and spit out the fly

Who would want to lose a big fish cause of not using wire leader

Jocelin

http://www.nsfa-adventures.com/JOHN_LEAPER_PIKE__QUEBEC_NSFA_OUTARDES_NEWS.jpg

Dble Haul
05-04-2007, 09:33 AM
Who would want to lose a big fish cause of not using wire leader


I guess it depends on your own personal experiences. I very rarely lose big fish when fishing fluoro.

Jamey- This just shows that it's different strokes for different folks. Each leader system has its advantages and drawbacks, so try each and make your own choice.

Manitou
05-04-2007, 01:12 PM
MArk

Striping a fly on the surface or under the surface poses no problem with fluoro but add the slow dead drift to the equation and the big pike will simply cruise up to the fly and gently suck it in, if your hook is not 4 inch long your screwed they will cut the leader 75 % of the time no mater who you are.

I fish for pike 90 days a year and have tried all kind of leader the bad thing about fluoro or mono are the pike that are really shy (non aggressive ones)and wont attack the fly hard and these one are the ones that swallow the fly deep so how do you fix this problem if the fly is in the mouth how do you keep the leader from being cut

Lots of people who I guide have fished with me and have lost trophy pike beacaus e of fluoro and mono, I guarantee that those guys when fishing for big pike never use mono or fluoro just stand by steel leaders (I guess the learnt the hard way)

http://www.nsfa-adventures.com/PIKE_NSFA_FLY_QUEBEC_NEWS.jpg



Jocelin

Dble Haul
05-04-2007, 01:37 PM
With all due respect, you aren't the only one who has done extensive flyfishing for pike. I am well aware of how pike attack a fly depending on their moods and the speed of the retrieve. I'm just letting Jamey and others know that there are options out there besides wire, and that they should find out what's best for them. They might find that they like wire best, and they might not.

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

Do I have to post a picture of pike too? :lildevl:

Manitou
05-04-2007, 01:52 PM
MArk I never said nothing wrong just letting Jamey know what we do up here

Hope I didnt offend you MArk if i did i am sorry my intention were to imform jamey on wire

I never said I was the only one who fishes for pike intensively

I though I posted a freindly and informative and different oppinion than you so whats with the picture remark


PS the picture were for everyone

Like you said different strokes for different folks

Sorry I will just let you respond from now on:confused:


Jocelin

Here is another picture for jamey (MARK CLOSE YOUR EYES :hihi: :) Joke

http://www.nsfa-adventures.com/closeup_PIKE_Outardes_NSFA.jpg

Dble Haul
05-04-2007, 02:01 PM
MArk I never said nothing wrong just letting Jamey know what we do up here

Hope I didnt offend you MArk if i did i am sorry my intention were to imform jamey on wire

I never said I was the only one who fishes for pike intensively


The fact that you directed your previous post at me (and me alone) is what made me respond the way that I did. By directing it at me, it seemed that you were trying to show that your opinion carries more weight because of the number of days that you spend on the water and that you guide, followed by yet another picture.

I apologize for the misinterpretation, and thanks for the clarification.

Manitou
05-04-2007, 02:03 PM
Thanks for the reply MArk

I should of responded in a clearer fashion to Jamey

Tight lines

Jocelin

Dble Haul
05-04-2007, 02:04 PM
Same to you. :)

Dble Haul
05-04-2007, 02:38 PM
Jamey, Manitou, and others.....some more good discussion regarding wire, fluoro, and even hooks here:

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=14823&highlight=fluoro

FrenchCreek
05-04-2007, 05:31 PM
Let me add a bit of clarification to this issue. Where I fish for pike, and I suspect the same is true for Manitou where he fishes for pike, we need not worry about other species like bass, we don't have bass, it's too cold for them! There may be an occaional accidental walleye/pickeral but they don't seem to mind the wire. Maybe a fluoro shock tipppet might get more of them, I don't know.
I have yet to have a leader shy pike! So for me the ease of tying on a steel ( I use 20 Lb. Tyger Wire almost exclusively) onto my leader is the only reason I don't use heavy mono, fluoro or other. I'm just too lazy to change the tippet and I hate the knots I need to make to tie on 60 Lb. fluoro onto 15 Lb. tippet. When next I go to southern waters???

Jamey McLeod
05-05-2007, 12:34 PM
Is the 27lb, 7 strand, nylon coated Surflon up to the test? It just seems too easy to cut with scissors.

I was just planning on running some 0.023 mono straight to about 8in of the 60lb flouro. Not looking to set any IGFA records for tippet strength, more looking for good turnover for heavy rabbit flies. Using 50lb GS backing.

Manitou
05-05-2007, 09:20 PM
27 pounds is plenty I rarely use more than 20 lBS

Jocelin

mikez
06-05-2007, 09:48 PM
Three questions:
What brand of wire?
Do you tie knots or crimp?
How does it affect casting?

Warren
06-06-2007, 05:50 AM
Three questions:
What brand of wire?
Do you tie knots or crimp?
How does it affect casting?

MikeZ while I don't fish for pike, I do fish for blues and they have gnashing teeth. We use the 1x19 17 lb surflon

We usually tie on a 10 inch piece. You can knot it just like any mono or fluro line. we loop it to the tippet & tie the fly on with a non slip loop.
The reason we loop it to the tippet is with blues you seem to change the fly often & the bite tippet gets short quick. Often times we will have several flies ready go on a bite leader. Tie a loop large enough to slip a fly through on the mono leader end. That way if the blitz is on and your fly is destroyed you don't spend a lot of time tying, just change the fly.
Having said that a hungry blue will just about eat a bare hook in my experience

It seems to cast OK, but we never seem to have to cast too far as we are usually in a boat

mikez
06-06-2007, 10:41 AM
Thanks Warren.
I have many years of experience with blues and elect NOT to use wire because of the line shy stripers or albies are my main target. When blues can't be avoided, I use extra long shank hooks and accept the occasional lost fly.

All that is void when considering pike. This past weekend I hooked into several nice pike on spinning gear and lost most of them [no wire]. I want to try the fly rod but do not want to risk losing that possible 40 incher [as I did Sunday on the spin rod].
What bothers me about the loop method is all the gunk and algae that I will have to deal with. Past experience has shown loops and large knots become scum magnets real quick.
I'm also concerned with casting wire. I want easy casting at distances as well as a stealthy splash down.

So wire users, what's the deal? Can I tie more streamlined nots in wire? Can I expect anything close to my normal casting performance?
Inquiring minds want to know!:wink:

sean
06-06-2007, 10:52 AM
Mike just find some american wire surflon. You can tie all the same knots you would with mono so no need to do the loop thing if you do not want to. Only need about 6 inches max and you should be OK. You should not notice much if any casting problems. It is good stuff.

I connect it to the mono with a double uni knot and then whatever terminal knot you normally use to the fly.

Funny I grew up in alaska and caught thousands of pike as a kid. I used 50 pound mono and only remember losing a couple fish. I guess I used pretty ling shank hooks though attached to the dead mice filled with foam we used as bait :whoa: Things were much simpler when I was 10 years old...

-sean

Warren
06-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Thanks Warren.
I have many years of experience with blues and elect NOT to use wire because of the line shy stripers or albies are my main target. When blues can't be avoided, I use extra long shank hooks and accept the occasional lost fly.



Mike I usually only target Blues when I fish for them. I did not consider that other things might bite my fly. Duh:roll:

Like Sean says; the Surfalon wire will tie just like any other knot. Before I learned about the non slip knot I used to tie regular improved clinch knots & have no trouble.

Just Curious, as I may head over to the Connecticut river later this year to try for some pike myself. What do you use for flies?

mikez
06-08-2007, 09:41 AM
Thanks guys I got some of that wire and it seems pretty handy. hope to test it this weekend.

Warren, I really am only just starting to fish for pike myself so don't know what flies are best but last weekend they were ALL OVER a six inch white swimming plug with a red head. Since big white decievers with red heads has always been my GO TO fly for stripers, I'll start there and see where my improvisational streak takes me.