shocking [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: shocking


arubaman
02-22-2007, 04:58 PM
I am not a racist, but I do love mother nature and the ocean. Just got to see a video about some cruelties that happen on this earth. Cruelties that are totally inhumane.
Above the video there is a link to an online petition and in my opinion spreading the word on the internet helps the petition getting signed by more and international individuals.
http://www.bluemarlin3.nl/info/info-dolphinkillers.php

josko
02-23-2007, 10:55 AM
Perhaps we need to understand that marine mammals have traditionally bee harvested as food in other cultures. I'm sure our own cattle slaughter is no prettier. True, those folks don't NEED to eat marine mammals, perhaps as we don't NEED to eat deer, elk or beef.
I believe it's a controlled hunt, and they're not endangering the population in any way.

juro
02-23-2007, 12:05 PM
300,000 Baby seals in Canada

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7995118004781234680&q=baby+seal+slaughter

Turkey farm in US

http://www.cok.net/camp/inv/turkeys06/

Arubaman,

Your mistake is by saying "I am not a racist" you create a racial issue. Just do a search and you will see it's a worldwide problem. Not sure what preaching to catch and release flyfishermen will acheive... the target audience should be those who would effect change, no?

arubaman
02-23-2007, 12:52 PM
Hi all, after watching the clip I was a bit upset and had some hard feelings about differences in culture.
Not to be mistaken: I do feel sorry for the dolphins, not because they get eaten. Here we eat cows, pigs, horses and a lot more mammals. itīs more the way they do it.
Having worked in a certified slaughterhouse for half a year I know how rules are in the European union and it is definetly or responsability as humans to make sure animals we eat have as less stress as possible. For example before cutting a throat an animal should be made unconsciousness. I donīt want to point a finger at those Japanese to say they shouldnīt eat dolphinmeat, itīs the way they achieve it that hurts me. These animals could be sedated earlier in the process, dragging around a life dolphin behind your truck is not so ethical in my opinion.

I think the more people sign certain petitions, the clearer we state to the world we DO care about other living creatures, and as flyfishermen I think we all do care about our environment and have respect for nature and itīs citizens.

October Caddis
02-23-2007, 01:01 PM
I guess everyone has their demons to deal with. We humans are a strange bunch. Never mind what we humans do to marine and land mammals which is bad enough what we do to our own is really nuts. Does Iraq, W. Africa and E. Africa familiar?
There are days I just play the old Peggy Lee song over and over again,"Is That All There Is."

juro
02-23-2007, 01:11 PM
Arubaman,

I clearly understand your point and agree it's just abominable how they do that.

However I remain curious... after watching the video, did you feel anything 'racial' about about the 300,000 baby seals being live-clubbed next to their mothers for fur coats?

SteelBoneguy
02-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Juro-

I don't believe anything that P3TA (I refuse to use their name properly) puts out.

The Canada seal harvest is heavily monitored and regulated. I have friends in Canada the crap that P3ta and other celebs like Paul McCartney, Pamela Anderson puts out is ridiculous. Lets not forget not to long ago P3TA themselves were responible for killing hundred of stray pets they said they were going to find homes.


Remember if P3TA had their way there would be no more pets, fishing or hunting.


Arubaman- I agree that all animals deserve a clean, quick, unsuffering death.

juro
02-23-2007, 04:04 PM
Steelboneguy,

I could not agree more, with all of your points however you didn't address the key point of my question.

Regardless of regulation or monitoring 300,000 baby seals are bludgeoned to death with clubs in a brutal primitive manner while their desperate mothers watch nearby. If you think about it, 300,000 mother seals are horribly traumatized as well while nature's most powerful force is shattered in the most brutal, vicious manner imaginable - so double that figure to 600,000 seals affected. All of these and hundreds of other slaughter methods worldwide are horrendous acts. I am in no way supporting any organization, least of all peta.

But I still have two questions:

Is this a racial issue?

What is the objective of posting it on the Flyfishing Forum?

SteelBoneguy
02-23-2007, 04:43 PM
I'm with ya Juro- To me I don't see any racial issue whatsoever.

I can't speak for Arubaman what his objective was for starting this thread.

Lastly I'm like a kid at Xmas waiting for the formal PR report w/ pics and video. Take care friend.

Steel :)

SALMONCHASER
02-23-2007, 08:33 PM
I have friends whio partake in the hunt every year and for the most part, the first strike ends these guys quickly. If not the second shot does it and on occasion it takes three shots. Regardless, it is as quick as possible. Yes, there are dick heads who enjoy clubbing and it has been caught on tape that some savages enjoy torturing them. Either way as long as there is one less seal then i am fine with it. All this talk of poor seal this and poor seal that,, and Juro,, counselling for grief stricken momma seals, come on. They are a nuisance and should be dealt with accordingly,, like coyotes around farms. The population on the Eastern sea-board is at around 6 mil!!!!!!!!!!!! multiply that by an average of 35lbs of fish per adult seal and well, it doesn't take too long to realize that this population explotion puts serious pressure on allready depleted fish stocks,, of which most of you like to wave your plastic rods at and grin for photos. I've been biting my tongue on this for awhile now and am just amazed that the seal hunt meets with such publicity!! Personally I'd like to se a max of 1mil seals along the coast,, and a hunt that kept that strict number. While the video is dramatic,, it is the way it is. Every fish that swims and is caught and killed dies a horrendous death by suffocation. Hey lets all save the poor silvery herring next!! I think Peta must makes money at this,, thats likely why they are still involved. There are lots of legitimate species on the endangered list,, direct this attention to saving them instead of an over populated nuisance/pest fish eating machine!
Salmon Chaser

juro
02-24-2007, 08:07 AM
Salmonchaser,

Truth be known I strongly dislike seals and think dolphins are cool... But you missed the point.

Slaughter is not a racial issue, I could choose many other examples and am only looking for effect here frankly.

Furthermore the demise of salmon is caused by humans not seals who have been part of the chain for millenia while salmon choked rivers.

tight-lines
02-24-2007, 09:47 AM
Steelboneguy,



But I still have two questions:

Is this a racial issue?

What is the objective of posting it on the Flyfishing Forum?


I don't see it so much as a racial issue but more of a cultural issue.

I live on the fringe between rural and urban living. In my area I know farmers who will ring a chickens neck just as easyly as I twist a bottle cap while some of my other freinds won't even buy it at the store if the skin is still on because they don't like pealing it off "too gross". That is a simplistic relation but imaginge cultural differances between continents.

As far as the other question goes. He got a discussion going and that's a start if we are to grow as a race (human race) our ideas of how to treat organizsms humanly should grow with us, no? And maybe more importantly while we grow shouldn't our knowledege and understanding of how to mantain the enviroment grow?

Humans are a waystefull bunch and it certainly is easier to blame other organisms such as seals for the dimise of Salmon then blame our own wastefull and irresponsible policy's.

BTW I don't have a problem with harvesting animals just do it right and do it so they can sustain their populations for the good of all, us and them(animals). I also think P3TA is a good example of why extremism doesn't work.

October Caddis
02-26-2007, 03:16 PM
Juro,

To answer your question, yes I think at times the race card does play into it. I don't think any of us here are that way but there are people out there who do see it that way. Just look at the problems out here in the PNW with the tribe and whaling. How many times did we see posts on other fishing sites, not fly, who were racist about the tribes right to whale. I'm sure it is the same with those same folks when it comes to Japan and their destruction of whales and dolphins. I never hear anyone say those damn so and so Sweeds or Icelanders when they do the same. But hell they are blue eyed and blond. I think the fisher folk of Japan politically abuse the hunt and have it rigged through the commission to do as they wish. I think the goverment of Japan pushes their right to hunt sea mamals as far as posible without creating a world boycott or out cry. But it is political in that there is money to be made and wealthy taste buds to treat. That is cultural capitalism of Japan in my book. The old ways die hard in conserative land and if one is interested in changing ways playing the race card and calling people names won't work. It never has and it never will those who are guilty of cultural greed will just increase their conviction to continue on as is. Even in Newfoundland with the seal hunt there are folks who call these wonderful people inbread idiots. That is cultural ignorance in my book not racisim but I bet there would be the race card if the seal hunters were just First Citizens. So I think there is a fine line when folks yell and scream when they attack a type of people between race and cultural differences and sometimes very hard to tell the difference. It is best to attack the process of the hunt and not the people involved.

chromedome
02-28-2007, 09:15 AM
Humans are a waystefull bunch and it certainly is easier to blame other organisms such as seals for the dimise of Salmon then blame our own wastefull and irresponsible policy's.



I couldn't agree more. And its only going to get worse as human populations expand with few restrictions. Tho even now there are way too many of our species on this earth to be in balance with the other creatures in the world, we continue on with reckless population expansion.

Eddie
02-28-2007, 09:58 AM
I think that arubaman brought up race because in moment of inarticularity, he meant, "I don't wish for my critique on another culture to be confused with racism". That's how I took it.

WARNING! The following opinions are those of Eddie's and his alone. He does not expect to convince anyone to change their minds. He expects the reflexsive and well worn claims that he is an intolerant, ignorant, elitist hypocrit. eg: "You wear leather, torture fish and eat hamburgers you F^CKING hypocrit! Stay the F^CK out of Canada!". Eddie will not bother to respond.

There is something that is not quite right about killing "higher mamals" for food. Monkey, dolphins...I'll throw in elephants and whales too. I can't explain it. Hindus feel the same way about cows, so it must be cultural. There is also something about killing wild mamals for mass consumption that also seems not right as well. Especially since you can farm them.
Clubbing seals is demented. Those folks are either desparate or freaks. I suspect the latter. I met a fur trapper once. He drove a nice truck. Strangling bob cats for fun....weird hobby. Hello Slingblade.

SALMONCHASER
02-28-2007, 02:31 PM
Eddie.
Calling the lads who partake in this hunt desperate is in fact true. Many of the guys who club seals live in an area where there it is a way to make money when there is very little else. I know you could probably care less but the collapse of the fishing stocks on the East Coast, and particularly Newfoundland has devastated an entire way of Life on the Rock and in surrounding areas. The Hunt is just one way to supplement an income.
Now, calling them freaks is just stupid and i bet you just earned your self a one way trip to the ice flows to rub shoulders with said freaks!!:devil:
It's apparant that you know very little, and care even less, about the people involved and their way of life. I would go so far to venture that your comments reflect you as a person,, and if so,, then you are one lad i don't care to know.
Salmon Chaser

October Caddis
02-28-2007, 04:33 PM
Salmon Chaser,

I think Eddie is a pretty good guy and just trying to P-off everyone for the fun of it.

But I agree with you on the people of Newfie, they are some of the most wonderful people I have ever met. I know the rest of Canada cracks jokes about them but hell they are Newfies. I have no problem with people condeming any of these hunts but I do not like the hate that developes towards the people who do the hunting. We High and mighty types are always butting into others cultures and trying to change their ways. It is so easy to attack someones culture and sooner or later it turns into a race thing. I know the newfies are the same race as most of us but if it was 1st nation people doing the hunting the culture thing would turn into race agenda. It happened in the Pacific Northwest with whale hunting a few years ago.
What ever happened to Juro, does he think there is race involved in these matters?

As far as killing higher mamals where do we draw the line? Where do we start killing and stop killing? Every culture will have a different level of where to start and where to stop. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong.

juro
02-28-2007, 08:53 PM
The Holocaust was a cultural killing of the highest order. Nothing will rival that in the history of the cosmos. It's ultimately a human problem.

But here on the FORUM we all share an equal respect for not only each other and high order mammals but also finned cold-blooded creatures with peanut sized brains. We take no shame in our passion as anglers, nor should we. We are an important link in their preservation, because unappreciated species vanish from the earth.

Consequently humans are outsmarted regularly by the peanut sized brain :hihi:

nmbrowncom
03-05-2007, 07:05 PM
easy to preach over steak and sushi from our comfortable homes in the burbs while others whom we criticize do our dirty work. how many posters are vegetarians or for that matter fish with barbless hooks. strange outrage from people who take joy in dragging fish to death by inserting barbed hooks in their mouths and "playing" with them until they die or a predator finishes them off. get real, we all enjoy what we do to lesser species for fun. it is pathetically hipocritical to find fault in the way others do it for food, let alone on racial grounds. how many posters are giving up there passion for the sake of their concern for the treatment of the fish?

October Caddis
03-06-2007, 10:43 AM
Mr Brown,
You got it down exactly! I might add that barbed or barbless we still harass our prey for our own enjoyment. I see nothing wrong with it as long as we give it our best effort.
I guess I could be called a terrible person for doing what I like to do to fish, C&R on the most part but worse yet I have been known to kick my work dogs on the ranch from time to time. Funny thing is they still love me and I love them, they are good dogs and worth their weight in gold. Now if the wife would just let me kick the kid once in a great while after he acts up we might just get somewhere.