salt reels 10 wt [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: salt reels 10 wt


flyfishingwes9
01-29-2007, 10:38 PM
hi there,
i am trying to find out/looking for a new 9/10wt salt reel. i am considering the galvan, and the ross BG or the new Momentum. i am lookin for any info on any other reels you guys can think of. tibor,abel, Loop/danielson,bauer, van staal etc. i will be using the reel for flats species like permit, baby tarpon, huge reds, and big jacks.

thanks
wes

juro
01-30-2007, 07:43 AM
All are excellent reels, and good for the task, but with a few notes:

The Danielsson is my goto salt reel because it's half the price a twice the reel IMHO. Totally sealed drag and killer aesthetics if you like that modern/classic combination as I do. Salt-proof.

The Tibor has classic lines that are hard to argue with but I can't be bothered with cork drag maintenance. Performance of a well-maintained Tibor is time-tested and you can't go wrong there with a little TLC.

The BG isn't what I would call a salt reel because of the tendency to corrode inside the drag chamber (under the plastic cap) and it's not serviceable without a special tool that they only have at the factory.

Don't forget the Nautilus, and the Sage D series is also proven in the field as a salt reel worth it's... salt :)

Dble Haul
01-30-2007, 08:10 AM
I would also look into the Orvis LA Battenkill. I have on in the size V and it's been super for years.

jimS
01-30-2007, 08:14 AM
Juro is "spot on" regarding the Ross BG. The replacement, Momentum, is too new to address its reliability and salt performance.

The Nautilus CCF No. 10, is my "go to" reel where sand/salt intrusion is pretty common. It has a robust sealed Cork/carbon fiber drag system that has a large backing capacity.

Tibor is the gold standard. I use the Riptide for 10wt use and the only maintenance required is an occasional rinse in freshwater. Pricey, but a hand-me-down heirloom.

The Danielsson is a sweet looking alternative, and as Juro mentioned, also has a sealed drag system. Good price point too.

vtloon
01-30-2007, 08:20 AM
I've been very happy with a Lamson Litespeed #4 on my 10 Wt, but can't speak to it re' a surf/sand enviornment. You can probably find some of the "old" porting reels at a very good price.

Gogga
01-30-2007, 05:12 PM
Ever seen a Shilton?, Fantastic salt water reel and a drag with enough power to stop a train.

All the best
Mike

Just Google Shilton........................... and look for the SL7.

salmo
01-30-2007, 08:15 PM
I concur with Juro comments on Danielsson reels. The HD 9-13 ( 10.5 oz) with the powerful, best on the market sealed drag would be a perfect choice. Also you will pay only $ 440 ( where it was resold/marketed by Loop a couple years ago it cost $ 800).
I have 7 reels made by Danielsson and love them.

http://www.danielsson-flyreels.se/us/start.php

Nautilus would be my No.2 choice.
http://www.nautilusreels.com/

Salmo

petevicar
01-31-2007, 10:02 AM
My favourite reel in that category in the Tibor Riptide. It is very reliable and the maintainance is not difficult. You must just rinse in clean water after each use and before each trip make sure that there is enough oil on the cork drag.

The Abel super 10 is very similar as is the Shilton - I have just bought an SL6 and will try it out next week.

My favourite sealed drag reel is made by Van Staal.

Pete

BigDave
02-01-2007, 08:38 AM
If you want to buy it once and never be dissapointed, get the Riptide. I beat on mine annually and have never done more than spin the handle under a running tap after a weekend or week of hard fishing. Looks and works like new despite being dunked and dropped hard on the deck a number of times. If you fish out of a boat, I would be wary of the thin cage on Danielsson and Sage in that regard.

For big jacks and pelagics I would want a draw bar system with a huge cork like Tibor and Abel. If you want to see the level of craftsmanship involved, check out the video interview with Ted J on the Tibor website.

mugsy
02-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Lots of good salt water reels out there. Ross isn't one of them. I finally gave up on mine and use the Nautilus, which is a great SW reel. I asked the folks at Ross about their new Momentum model, and was told it has basically the same drag system. Ross freshwater reels are excellent. Ross service is excellent, I have extensive experience with it - I had to send my BG reel back for service after every trip.

salmo
02-01-2007, 10:26 PM
I would be wary of the thin cage on Danielsson and Sage in that regard.

What Danielsson reel are you talking about?

The LW, which is more suitable for freshwater fishing or Bonefish is relatively delicate.
but HD series reels ( HD means - heavy duty) I was recommended are very sturdy !!!. HD reel can stop the train and with most reliable, sealed drag, on the market is hard to beat.

Unlike Tibor, as it was mentioned, no need to wash it every day or put oil on the cork!, as the drag in Danielsson HD is fully sealed. Not to mention a beautiful Swedish craftsmanship. The
At the end it was Danielsson who show reel industry in 1980 how to make large arbor reels. One the worldwide patent has expired, the others manufactures have jumped in ….

The HD drag consist of the multiple carbon/steel disks. As a result, both surfaces of several disks participate in the braking process.
http://www.danielsson-flyreels.se/us/bromsteknik.php

FishHawk
02-04-2007, 08:39 AM
For the type of fishing your going to do Tibor is the reel. Simple in design , bulletproof and has over 234 world record fish taken on these reels made in the USA. . Able is also, a great reel and in the same class as Tibor. Another reel to look at is the Nautilus which has a sealed cork drag and is in the top three. All this fuss about maintenance is really no big issue, just rinse the reel off after fishing and your done. The cork maintenance is perhaps once a year add a little grease or neet foot oil. That's it .
Just my opinion. I suggest you take a look at the reels and see what the guys are using in the area your going to fish . Go to the local fly shop and they'll set you up. Fish Hawk

salmo
02-04-2007, 02:17 PM
I suggest you take a look at the reels and see what the guys are using in the area your going to fish . Go to the local fly shop and they'll set you up. Fish Hawk

Untill Loop ws reselling Danielsson reels for $ 800 retail, every fly shop loved them. Since Danielsson refused to send its factory to Korea and is selling reels directly from the factory, fly shop don’t carry them anymore....

While Nautilus is a nice reels, someone has to explain why it is superior, at salt water fishing tool then Danielsson HD ?

“All this fuss about maintenance is really no big issue, just rinse the reel off after fishing and your done. The cork maintenance is perhaps once a year add a little grease or neet foot oil”

I would respectfully disagree. What about if not enough/frequently oil is placed on the cork and problem appears when 50 lb Tarpon is running at full speed?

BTW, Nautilus, following Daniesslon has changed year ago its drag plates from cork to carbon fiber which dissipated heat much more effectively then cork!!!!
Nautilus reel has a grease on the shaft. After the spool is removed, it is very important to make sure the surface of the shaft is dirt free!!!
In Nautilus only drag is sealed. Daniesslon have entire mechanism sealed, what make the reel extremely reliable. No ned for meticulous washing, keeping an eye on cork etc.

For this year even Ross Reel has introduced carbon fiber to Momentum drag, unfortunately not sealed.

Salmo

juro
02-05-2007, 08:04 AM
Bigdave is a fishin' friend of mine and although I am not prone to piss off a guy twice my size :) comparing the 'thin cage' of a Sage D series reel, which indeed does have a thin metal body like a Bauer, and the Danielsson HD reels is apples to oranges.

HD reels (which I own) have serious meat on their shoulders and are up to any boat ride. In fact the material is beefiest on the perimiter of the spool like the chines of a driftboat, where it counts the most against impact. It is completely up to the job.

Salmo, whether maintenance is an issue or not is really up to the beholder. For some things a part of the passion is the care and it's no trouble at all. There is something special about a Tibor reel no doubt.

But to be honest Dave I saw your reel dismantled and hand-washed on the kitchen sink each night at the fishin' cottage while my Danielsson sat unrinsed out on my rod rack none the worse for wear after seasons of rinsing when I get home (unless it rains on the way). The guys on the Acklins trip did the same thing each night with their Tibors, dismantling and washing - while my Danielsson sat out in the tropical night with a rinse from the hose if Katy's dinner wasn't waiting for me or the tequila calling.

Now all these reels are sweet little crankin' machines and we are lucky to have such choices - and I think reels get better all the time. I can't wait to see what comes out in the years to come.

But for today I can't get over how affordable, reliable, aethetically pleasing and care-free my Danielsson reels have been over the years. I am worried someone will buy them again and the price will shoot up to full market value frankly.

BigDave
02-05-2007, 09:50 AM
J, you saw my bauer dismantled in the cottage - not the tibor.

There are lots of choices out there and people should buy whatever they want.

Adrian
02-05-2007, 10:56 AM
I picked up a Danielsson this year and really like it so far.

With the amount of wear-and-tear Juro puts on a reel as a working guide, his recommedations carry a lot of weight for me - i.e. hand's on experience matters a lot more than engineering specs, brochure-ware and hype.

But until the HD has racked up as many world records, particularly the speedsters in excess of 100lb, making generalized statements of superiority over the current (cork drag) record holders is a bit premature (IMHO). Time will tell, of course.

salmo
02-05-2007, 11:39 AM
But until the HD has racked up as many world records, particularly the speedsters in excess of 100lb, making generalized statements of superiority over the current (cork drag) record holders is a bit premature (IMHO). Time will tell, of course.

Adrian,

The best way is to put the reel ( HD) into action…………

There is not questions that Tibor reel are marketed very aggressively, so I am not surprised that so many records were cranked up.
The argument that one reel has achieved so many records doesn’t mean that the other reels is not capable of achieving those record or is inferior. It is simple a matter of putting it into action.

The best way to test both reels, against each other, is to load eachof them with 1000 yards of 50 lb spectera, set the tension of both drags at the same level ( lb) attached the lines to the car and run it with certain speeds for X number of yards.

The inspection of the drags would give the real true about durability of each material.

It is well known that carbon fiber materials, which are used in bikes and formula one cars brakes are the best materials, period!!! from braking and heat dissipation point of view.

The carbon fiber is a conductor, while cork is a insulator, what means that carbon dissipates heat very effectively. It is overheating of a material which damages its surface.

The is not questions that the cork material use in a reel drag is more then sufficiently durable material to be a very effective drag in real fishing situation.

My point is that hands down, properly structure carbon fiber disk will out run cork by wide margin. For some reasons.......cork is not used in bike/car breaks.........

Smcdermott
02-05-2007, 11:52 AM
While I can see that carbon fibre is a great material if you are looking for heat resistance and stopping power, I would like to hear more about how smooth it is. The drag on a fly reel is designed to slow down the fish but also to preserve the tippet. Is carbon fibre as effective as cork in this capcity?

Sean

salmo
02-05-2007, 04:44 PM
I am using LW 2-5 with my Winston wt.5, 9' BIIX and never had a problem with very light tippets.Smooth like a butter……..
The drag on HD series is equally smooth and can be adjusted ( minimum set up, the factory set-up is perfect).

The best way to asses the smoothness of the drag is to attached backing ( backing give more sensitivity then fly line) to a tree, walk away 20 feet , set up the drag at different level ( 20., 30, 60% of max. setting) and walk away very quickly ( 3-6 mph) or even run!!! Holding reel directly in your hand or keeping the fly rod straight.
This way, without any amortization provided by of rod, the tester can pink up even the slightest jerks in the drag.

Good luck…….. to anyone who can detect even slightest jerking in Danielsson reels.
Again , Smooth like a butter……..

Salmo

P.S.

Some open cork based drag, ( unless meticulously oiled time to time) will miserable fail the above test, particularly when wet ( rain, the reel dunked into water)

FishHawk
02-06-2007, 04:54 AM
" Born from the cross between the resilience and forgiveness of a cork drag, and the high performance requirement of Formula One carbon fiber disc brakes, this hybrid drag system is free of startup inertia and fade, raising the bar for fly reel performance yet again. "

The Nautilus uses cork along with carbon for it's seal drag. Notice they still went to cork.

A fun threat it's like the Chevy and Ford truck guys tipping a few at a local bar in Montana after a great day on the river.
FishHawk

salmo
02-06-2007, 03:07 PM
Interesting

“and the high performance requirement of Formula One carbon fiber disc brakes”

this statement was copied out from Loop Catalog ( the last was 2004) before Loop and Danielsson broke out.

Nautilus has introduced carbon fiber in 2005………

Co-incident ??

Again, cork will wear much faster then carbon fiber. That is a nature of the materials.

juro
02-06-2007, 03:09 PM
BigDave - thanks for the correction.

Sean - the only reel I had with me in St Kitts was the Daneilsson LW 6/nine which is very light compared to the HD cousin. However, I battled 11 tarpon one in the 60's and the drag was flawless under extreme load and the burst speeds that mid-sized tarpon provide. Unfortunately the hooks and tippets were not up to the job and I only landed two. There is nothing in the northeast that can compare in terms of starts, stops and leaps. Sure tuna make huge sustained runs but most of that battle is a vertical tug of war. Albies and bonito, blues and beloved bass are just not even in the same league IMHO.

Normally the HD 9/thirteen would be used for tarpon. This is a tank compared to the LW but I felt the 6/nine more than held it's own.

In my opinion the only thing that any reel has over the Danielsson is a sense of prestige and that is in the eyes of the beholder. It's not performance or price that's for sure.

BigDave
02-06-2007, 08:49 PM
Anyone tried the new TFO/Hadens? I kept this post short to avoid being quoted :razz:

Adrian
02-08-2007, 07:57 PM
I've only seen the TFO/Hayden on dry land but it looks and feels seriously rugged and you can lock the drag down hard when its time to pump a tunoid from 600' beneath the boat.

Which actually highlights my one issue with Dannielson vs the traditional cork-drag reels.

With cork I can go from zero (or almost zero) to 100 percent drag without dismantling the drag mechanism. Having to decide ahead of time whether I want low-range, medium-range or high-range and screwing around with an Allen key is, IMHO, irritating. The fact that I can't get zero to 100% range on the drag setting might even be considered a serious design flaw in a blue water scenario.

Salmo will almost certainly tell me I got that wrong too :lildevl: but, since we're comparing features I just thought I would throw it into the debate. By the way, if there is a way to adjust my Danielsson so I can go from zero to 100% I humbly apologise and stand corrected. But please Salmo, whatever you do, do not tell me I don't need the ability to go from near-zero to 100% drag in a blue water situation!

On balance, I'm almost inclined to say I would trade the inconvenience of having to perform a reasonably delicate engneering adjustment on my Danielsson to get the drag range I want, for the relatively simple maintenance of a cork drag. I certainly wouldn't want to be messing around with a small allen key two miles off the coast of Kauai.

But as I said before, I really like my Danielsson reel. Not as much as I love my Martin OM28 Marquis which is perfect in every respect of course :smokin:

hmaadd
02-08-2007, 08:41 PM
This is a post by Steve Abel from a site letsflyfish.

The guy asked how long does an abel drag last. Sorry if I shouldn't copy.


We have never actually had a drag wear out. People say hold the cork I need a spare drag if I catch a big fish and that corks wears out. I spoke to a guide the other day he had clients in Key West, Florida. He called me to say his client had bought two brand new reels brand X. The client hooked a 100lb tarpon and the reel failed. He said “that’s okay I have another reel” and then he hooked another 100lb tarpon later in the day and the second reel failed. Finally the guide gave him his Abel number 3 that he had used for tarpon for fifteen years. Many clients borrowed it and he never washed it unless he hosed off the boat or it rained. Well the client hooked another tarpon and landed it on the Abel number 3. The client said “I have to look at this reel and see what it looks like inside”. He took it apart, the guide had never had it apart! They were so amazed, it looked brand new, it looked like it was polished on the inside too and there was no cork residue and no dust nothing, it just looked brand new. They called me and told me how nice the set up was after using it for fifteen years. Hundreds of people have used my Abel reel to catch all sorts of fish on a daily basis and the drag remains perfect.

The only thing you have to worry about the drag is that cork is a natural material; it is the bark of a tree. It has a certain amount of natural oil and enhancing it by impregnating it with Neats Foot oil really helps a lot. If you put grease or any petroleum distillate on cork it will react with water and slip, just like when there is oil on the highway and it rains, so I recommend Neats Foot oil. We can supply it or you can get it in most hardware stores, it’s the same thing you put on baseball gloves or shoes and leather. If your drag ever squeaks or if your drag doesn’t feel as smooth as when you bought it just wipe of the back of the spool because that’s where the cork meshes up to. Clean the back of the spool and you can use Scotch Bright on the back of the spool because it puts fine little scratches in it and cleans it perfectly. Then you take a toothbrush and alcohol and clean of the cork if the cork gets contaminated with a little grease as centrifugal force throws it out of the ball bearings. Clean the cork especially if the cork looks black, that means it got grease from the bearings, clean it with a toothbrush and alcohol and let it dry. That only takes 5 minutes as alcohol evaporates very fast and then when its dry put 10 drops of Neats Foot oil and smear it around with your finger and let it soak into the cork maybe another 5 minutes and dry it with a paper towel so there is no excess on it. Put it back together and it will be like new but you might never have to do that.

I'm pretty sure I read one time that Steve Abel would free dive with his rod and reel in hand. I don't think he's worried about a sealed drag if he does this.

sean
02-09-2007, 06:12 AM
Adrian what danielsson do you have? You can do that with the HD drags but not the LW. I have 6 HDs and one LW. At least with my LW I have never been able to adjust it to get the full range I have with my HD. The LW is more than adequate for anything you would catch on a 10wt but I would use the HD for any serious bluewater stuff anyway.

That being said I have a couple tibors on order as well. Never hurts to have all the bases covered :)

-sean

Adrian
02-09-2007, 07:17 AM
Sean

I have the LW 812 which explains why I can't get the full range. As you say its not a big deal for most inshore scenarios.

I'll have to check out the HD sometime, although my Cork drags from Pate and Abel show no signs of wearing out in my lifetime :smokin:

salmo
02-09-2007, 08:05 AM
Adrain,

The only thing I can add is that with the HD you can get from near 0% to 100% within about one full turn of the knob drag (330 degree) , so no need to make 2-3 turns :D .
At 100% set-up the drag on HD reel can “stop a train” or break ( adding backing resistance on the guides) 40-50 lb liine :whoa: .

Tight Lines
Salmo

Sean Juan
02-09-2007, 02:14 PM
I have a lamson litespeed - best thing about it is their customer service which of course is never a good thing to say about a reel.

Its downside is the semi-sealed drag, which only allows for semi-rinsing and so far a drag has yet to last a season for me. Lamson is very good about repairing the reel but in all honesty, so what.

Another reel that sucks is the Orvis Mach series. After every outing I would take the spool off and soak both halves in freshwater per their directions. Despite this care the drag was just about non existent after a month. Its been demoted to my pike line holder.

Has anyone used Hayden reels? They look like the real deal but you can only trust so much of what you read.

Also I went to the Danielson website but seems they didn't have a list of dealers, does anyone know of a shop where you can handle one?

Glad to see so many positive reviews of the Nautilus like the look of that reel but was a bit skeptical of it and all reels that tout a sealed drag.

Adrian
02-09-2007, 03:03 PM
For Danielsson you can contact the US distributor by phone (details are on the website) or you can fax the order.

I can't remember the guy's name but he is very helpful and they're nice folks to deal with.

Sorry I just re-read your post - if you come to Spring clave in May you will see several working examples :)

flyfishingwes9
02-09-2007, 03:42 PM
thanks for all the info guys. i atually found a deal on a Two TIBOR QCs a everglads and a riptide. they are beautiful reels, but i am not sure i can afford to keep either of them. if any body is interested let me know. they are both brandnew and have all paperwork. i am in the process of looking at all the reels that have been said.

thanks again for the help and info

flyfishingwes9
02-09-2007, 03:43 PM
thanks for all the info guys. i atually found a deal on a Two TIBOR QCs a everglads and a riptide. they are beautiful reels, but i am not sure i can afford to keep either of them. if any body is interested let me know. they are both brandnew and have all paperwork. i am in the process of looking at all the reels that have been said.

thanks again for the help and info

salmo
02-09-2007, 09:51 PM
Sean Juan

If you on the East Cost you may contact Juro. I am sure he will be more then glad to show you the reel.

If you need I can send you for few days one of my Danielsson reels, as long as you pick up the cost of shipping. Right now I am in upstate NY enjoying lake effect snow every day……. :mad:

After Danielsson and Loop have divorced ( 2004) Danielsson is selling its reels directly form factory. The name of US representative is Ron Larson.
You are not the first who reports on this site or spaypages the problems with Lamson reels.
I have yet to find one post with complains about Daniesson HD or LW Reels or ( pre 2004 Danielsson/Loop reel, which are identical ).

Discontinued Charlton and HD/LW Danielsson are the only two reels I am awarded with super reliable, sealed carbon fiber drag.

As I mentioned before In Nautilus only drag is sealed, while the reel shaft must be lubricated with grease. After the spool is removed, it is very important to make sure the surface of the shaft is dirt free!!!

Daniesslon have the entire mechanism sealed, what makes it extremely reliable.

The reason Nautilus shaft have to be greased is that the spool insert is made from probably Derlin, soft material used on some reel drag system. It have self-lubricating properties, but is very susceptible to scratches by sand or tiny solid particles present in the water.

Salmo

Sean Juan
02-12-2007, 09:16 AM
Salmo,

Thanks for the generous offer. I live on the Cape so I'm sure I'll see some of these reel at the clave. Of all the mistakes I've made in purchasing fly fishing equipment I regret my reel purchases the most. I know a lot of guys talk of how hard they are on equipment - I'm not I baby my stuff as much as possible and always follow the manufacture's recommended maintaince after each trip and still I can think of three reels that didn't last a season. An STH, Litespeed, and the Mach - to day the best reel I own is probably the Orvis Bar stock Battenkill which isn't a great reel but at least you are able to rinse it throughly. I've definitely learned my lesson of buy it right buy it once.

I think I will pick up one of these reels (at least). Looking at the 9-13HD for striper fishing, would the 8-12LW be a better reel. I'd like to say that I need a powerful reel to defeat deep sea leviathans but in reality thats a fairly rare occurance. I'm assuming that both reels feature the same durability but that might be a wrong assumption.

salmo
02-12-2007, 10:06 AM
As Juro has already hinted the HD is a tank and can stop a train at near 100 % drag set-up.

The LW 8-12 has essentially the same capacity and the drag ( at higher set-up) more suitable for fresh water applications ( steelehad, salmon). Saying that many use it for salt water fiy-fishing for 30 lb without any problems. The construction of the drag is the same as on the HD.

The LW has relatively more delicate constructions, so If you are planning to bounce it around a boat go with HD model, specially that the price difference is only ca. $120 and you have a very powerful drag for deep sea leviathans

The weight of the LW 8-12 is 7.3oz vs. the HD 9-13 ( 10.5 oz) .

juro
02-12-2007, 10:12 AM
Sean -

When the inner works and structural integrity are this good you can downsize the reel. I use the LW 6/nine for most single hand striper work up to 9wt and have stopped fish over 40" on it. I also use this same reel for bonefish, perfect for that. Use either 20# backing for normal use or 50# gelspun if you are after leviathans. Drag is plenty for the job and the reel is awesome all around. I use the 6nine for 7wt through 9wt.

The HD 7ten is a smaller brick shthouse reel for anyone who is worried about the LW but frankly it's been great to fish with such a light workhorse reel as the 6nine.

The 8twelve I would use for 9wt up, mostly 10wt and the light two-hander. No need for gelspun.

I would like if they came up with something in between the 6nine and 8twelve, but either do the job.


I will have both at the spring clave. Warning - Swedish aesthetics are alluring ;)

Sean Juan
02-12-2007, 03:45 PM
I've received more than a few smacks to the back of the head for admiring Swedish aesthetics :)

Thanks for the advice, the Danielsson 9-13HD is now on the top of my list for reels for my two hander. I may even pick up a smaller one for a single handed because I think it may be best to keep my Litespeed out of the salt from now on.

Cool thing about this site, likely never would have even heard of these reels without it.

salmo
02-13-2007, 01:15 PM
You have probably heard about Loop reels before. The Danielsson engraving was on all Loop reels until 2004, when the two companies got divorced.
Danielsson Innovation AB, was designing and manufacturing all reel marketed by Loop from early 80’s ( they made the first large arbor reel still sold as "The original") until 2004. Now all reels are marked only Danielsson AB name.