Call me what you will.... [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Call me what you will....


juro
07-10-2006, 04:23 PM
But I wouldn't be caught dead fishing a pink sluggo. Yes I know, open the floodgates whatever.

What has gamefishing come to! I can't even look at them. Worse yet I can't have a striper and a pink sluggo in the same field of vision without thinking something is wrong with that picture.

To each his/her own

Meant Editorially

Adrian
07-10-2006, 04:57 PM
Would that be an aversion to the nexus of multiple non-traditional flyfishing concepts embodied in a single piece of flaccide plastic?

Or, is the color pink the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back?:lildevl:

jfbasser
07-10-2006, 05:14 PM
I used a Pink floating worm freshwater bass fishing for quite a few years...Killer clear water color when sightfishing for cruisers until the tournament armadas caught on and trained all the largemouth in Massachusetts to avoid them! I never use Sluggos when striper fishing, however:smokin:

juro
07-10-2006, 05:22 PM
I think part of this is rooted in my aversion to the pink worm phenomena out west for (gulp) steelhead. Can you imagine fighting a big native steelhead in the emerald flows of a lush rain forest stream with a pink rubber member doinking his cheeks silly as he shakes his head? Thank God it hasn't caught on in the Gaspe or Scotland's famous centuries old fishery. Tweed and pink rubber? The horror of it.

Doublespey
07-10-2006, 05:42 PM
although the effect of the 9" worm is diminished because of vertical 'shrinkage'. :hihi:

5892

juro
07-10-2006, 05:51 PM
That fish started out with bright cheeks but ended up red! :lildevl:

sean
07-10-2006, 06:06 PM
I am starting to feel the same way about flies with clouser eyes :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

My kid really likes the pink sluggos though, I try to get him to just stick to the white ones but what can you do...

-sean

Adrian
07-10-2006, 06:16 PM
I am starting to feel the same way about flies with clouser eyes :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

-sean

Now that should really put the cat amongst the pigeons :lildevl: I was going to use the "can of worms" analogy but the pun would be unforgiveable. :hihi: :hihi:

Juro, you should know that the Tweed has seen it's share of unsportsmanlike behavior over the years. The "Walkerburn Angel" would make any color sluggo look innocent.

FrankF
07-10-2006, 06:45 PM
Actually I used a light red/pink cinder worm imitation fly during a hatch last year. It worked pretty well. ;)

juro
07-10-2006, 09:32 PM
I am starting to feel the same way about flies with clouser eyes :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
-sean

Well at least weighted eyes serve a purpose, to invert the hook on skinny flats as every bonefisher knows. On the flats the bonefish is the closest cousin of the striper - in terms of behavior.

But those pretty jungle cock eyes and stringy hackles are for fishermen, not the fish - like wearing a tux to a mugging. Stripers are just thick shouldered rugby players of the piscatorial world, lovable thugs, linebackers on a blitz and their brutally frank nature is what I love about them. They are slaves to the beat of the tides and I find no need to glorify things for these bad boys, they are ready to rumble.

However suckering them with a pink rubber phallus is downright demeaning.

flydoc
07-10-2006, 09:52 PM
However suckering them with a pink rubber phallus is downright demeaning.

Oh, Juro! I just love it when you talk dirty!:lildevl:
Flydoc

sean
07-10-2006, 10:45 PM
But those pretty jungle cock eyes and stringy hackles are for fishermen, not the fish

I guess somebody needs to tell the fish:smokin:

Stripers can be as delicate as a spring creek trout or as voracious as a bluefish. More often than not I see their delicate side, smarter and more discerning in their feeding patterns than I ever thought until I moved here. You just got to seek it out and really get into their environs to see it. They can be maddening at times to figure out but when you do it is worth far more than any blitz fishing I have encountered. That is where the true knowledge lies. Not just throwing a fly into the middle of a feeding frenzy. Not much to learn there.

Every striper loves a big blitz but in my experience that is far from the norm. It aint all about the flats. That is maybe 5% of the habitat a striper lives and feeds in.

They are no more thugs than a bonefish is a glorified sucker.

-sean

FishHawk
07-11-2006, 04:44 AM
For me it's the Tube and Worm that gets me. Had a boss who had a lot of money and had to take people out on his boat to get a tax write off. Everyone had to Tube and Worm when you went out with him. Bass ate the Tubes like candy.
The biggest fish caught by the employees was by the company secretary who never fished in her life!!! To top it off they threw the fish away because no one wanted to take it home and eat it. FishHawk

juro
07-11-2006, 07:13 AM
I guess somebody needs to tell the fish:smokin:

Yeah, they aren't too trendy :lildevl:

Stripers can be as delicate as a spring creek trout or as voracious as a bluefish. More often than not I see their delicate side, smarter and more discerning in their feeding patterns than I ever thought until I moved here. You just got to seek it out and really get into their environs to see it. They can be maddening at times to figure out but when you do it is worth far more than any blitz fishing I have encountered. That is where the true knowledge lies. Not just throwing a fly into the middle of a feeding frenzy. Not much to learn there.


Blind casting with fancy flies is hardly challenging compared to sight fishing on summer flats, I know this is your first year but you should give it a try. Nothing is more challenging, exciting and condusive to big fish in ironic conditions.

First thing I did in 1995 when I moved back was the swing thing with spey gear, floating lines, estuaries but the prominence of schoolies urged me to move on. It just doesn't excite me. The surroundings and the fish themselves urged me to change my tactics. Striper fishing is not a philosophy, it's a great interactive puzzle; a life-long enigma that leaves too much to solve to box oneself in for style points.

But in the end we fish for enjoyment so whatever rocks the boat is the best for each individual. :)


Every striper loves a big blitz but in my experience that is far from the norm.


Well that's because you haven't experienced fall yet. You'll see.


It aint all about the flats. That is maybe 5% of the habitat a striper lives and feeds in.


That's right it's not all about the flats. Big rips on the fly are a speciality of mine (big girl; south tip rip a couple of my exploits); big surf (developed surf flyrod, migratory techniques etc). I understand the fall blitzes very well and they are a huge part of the scene. I would say that I can cover the majority of striped bass habits with my diverse fly-only approaches perhaps 85% of whats available from shore.

From boats it was too easy to figure out the Billingsgate Shoal and Chatham east fishery on the fly (albeit incredibly productive). Estuary fishing represents an even smaller percentage and produces a smaller average size fish.

And there is so much more to untangle.

I have to argue the 5% flats claim. Throughout history, the striped bass has been captured by their shallow water habits - Massasoit Indians showed the Plymouth settlers how to set tidal traps and it's written that proceeds from sale of striped bass among the plantation helped fund the first American schoolhouse. These traps worked on the principal of fish coming with the tide and the water leaving them behind in the traps.

Certainly not in spring. When I showed you how to dial into the migratory behavior, I am sure you can't deny that the majority of the entire population runs the flats on route. In that case it's more like 85% run the flats on their migration in spring.

As your first striper fall comes, you will learn that blitzing IS the norm in autumn in fact where the migration follows the flats in spring it follows the blitzes in fall. You will have a hard time denying that 85% or more are in blitz/on blitz/off behavior for the southward push in October.

A significant percentage of the striped bass population does indeed roam the open seas (e.g. Stellwagon) in a semi-pelagic manner and the largest fish seem to gravitate toward structures that neither you or I could exploit with fly rods but on rare occasions without a boat maybe - but for the most part stripers are shoreline inhabitants and when the tide comes or when currents form rips they are feeding there. I am happy with shots at 40" plus fish all year and I get them in certain places thus I lean that way.

In reality stripers feeding in stationed position is a much smaller behavioral niche, stripers don't sit too often in one spot as every sight fisher knows. I would wager that those fish are moving but appear to be stationed in the dark.

They are no more thugs than a bonefish is a glorified sucker.

Tell that to the bunker with the broken back. Big bass eat their young, had a big cow grab a schoolie last weekend in fact. Sure ain't trout. :devil:

Ahh bonefishing... I'll listen after you've tried it once or twice. I think you'll see the parallel - their blood gets to boiling to the beat of the tides and that gets into your own blood. It's not about how fancy you fish, but how well you hear that rhythm. It doesn't try to fit the human perspective into the fishing, but instead the human has to fit into the scene.

You can say I am up my kazoo all you want and I won't deny it but to say my pursuit of striped bass is practiced in a limited manner is simply wrong, especially in comparison to sippy trout techniques. :lildevl: :smokin:

sean
07-11-2006, 08:46 AM
Hmm, a little hostile , are we not? I moved here last Septemeber. I think that is fall and I caught a good number fo estuary fish on the backside of napatree last year who were not blitzing. Blitzing may be the biggest game in town but not the only one.

I have bonefished the keys a couple times. They are not stripers and rely much more on flats for food than a striper has to.

Flat wings have been around at least 20 years, not really a trend and they do work as do small shrimp and silverside flies.

Running the beaches and the flats are not the same thing. Sure those migratory fish run up and down but mainly on the outside , and most of the fish actually migrate a little farther offshore. It may be site casting at times but it is not flats fishing. No way is it 85%, maybe %.05. No one ever sees all those big fish that fill up the cape cod bay. If they did south beach would be wall to wall keepers in the spring but it is not. A lot of those bigger fish seem to migrate a little farther offshore.

Just because you caught schoolies in the estuaries does not mean everyone does. You say it is a lifetime pursuit , well it is a little presumptious to say only schoolies are in estuaries when you have only did it one year. Just saying it is all blind casting proves you do not know much about it at all. The majority of the time you know exactly where the fish is feeding and are bringing the fly to them. Go spend an evening down to a bridge and you can watch the same fish hold in the current and feed. They move up and down as needed due to tidal height but will pick stations and stay in them as long as possible to feed. The food is being brought to them , there is no need to chase it. If you are going to belittle my methods at least know something about it.

Fish move on the flats cause they have to hunt and they are vulnerable. How many times have you told me stories of fish holding and the backside of sand bars waiting for bait to be washed over. Sounds like stationary feeding to me....

What about Phils fish down in CT, they sound pretty big and it is an estuary type environ. Stripers like shad, shad like estuaries....I have not found little fish = estuaries to be the case any more than the schoolies you guys catch on the flats most of the time.

I have not seen any of your big fish pictures from the flats except a 2 paragraph essay about a 33 inch fish. I have not seem or heard of many 40 inch fish caught on the fly on monomoy, only a few on the 40 inch club this year. You say you get lots of shots, where are the fish? Belittingly my methods are fine if you can show me there is something better down in monomoy. Big fish are not the norm no matter where you fish from the shore. The only way to really do the big fish thing all the time is boat fishing and even then it is not a sure thing.

Do not get me wrong , I really like monomoy. It is a beautiful place to fish and I love my time there. However it truly is only a small part of the stripers puzzle, which is all I am trying to say.

It just raises my hackles that instead of learning something you choose to attack and belittle others.

It's not about how fancy you fish, but how well you hear that rhythm. It doesn't try to fit the human perspective into the fishing, but instead the human has to fit into the scene.

And that is my point. Sounds to me your cd player is stuck on repeat so you are only hearing one rythm. Go out and explore a little and learn some new things. It may just make you a better fisherman and appreciate the fullness of striper fishing.

-sean

OC
07-11-2006, 09:06 AM
Cape Cod is the meca for bass and there shallow water is more the norm. But there are so many other environments where stripers live like Boston harbor inside and outer, places like Maine and maybe the bays of rocky Rhode Island. Many years of experience fishing the islands of Quincy Bay and Hingham Harbor taught me that once big Bass have moved in for the summer and before they move out at Fall migration that though they do move around some they develope a pattern that does not take them far and they follow this pattern day after day on the most part. Seems they have holding stations at different times in the tides and probably other things such as moon phases. It is hard to prove that I know but experience of fishing in areas like this gives you a strong feeling about this. I have relaesed nice bass caught at a certain place and tide that had a reconizable scar or some unique feature only to have caught him again in the same place on the same tide situation a day or two later. There was one bass around 30 pounds I used to try and catch as a kid that sat under the old pier where Weymouth Port is now. Every day I went down there and if the tide was dead low he would be swimming around under the pier and as soon as the tide started to move he was gone. I swear that same bass came back to this spot each summer for 3 years and I never did land him, hooked him twice over that time period. What I'm trying to get at here is that there are places where one may or may not see the fish because of depth or visability but is not casting blind. Sight fishing on the flats is truely a wonderful experience but so is learning and understanding how the environment you fish moves around you. A way from sight flats fishing the accomplishment is not so much in the fish you hook but knowing you are at the right place at the right time and that you can do this on a day to day basis.

juro
07-11-2006, 09:20 AM
Whoa :Eyecrazy: - no hostility intended, though if taken that way I've done a poor job of communicating. I thought you set a tone with your preceding volley for a little friendly sparring but forgive me for taking it the wrong way bro; my bad.

I'd be the first to say I've only scratched the surface, even though I started fishing the cape at 11 years of age. I can become convinced of things I have learned over time, as many will - but do indeed have a lot to learn yet.

peace

OC
07-11-2006, 10:46 AM
Juro,

At least it is friendly sparring between probably two good stripa fishermen.:cool:

If you and Sean were stripa fishermen in the 40's, 50's and early 60's it would not be friendly. Be it Buzzards Bay, the Canal or Boston Harbor there were only small serious factions that guarded their secrets till the death. Bar fights were common amoungst the factions, lines were cut by props when others hooked big fish and fishermen were as sneaky and secrative as George Bush. The Portagee fishing community as they were called hated the W.A.S.P. faction of local white boys with their beautiful Cuttyhunk fishing boats and around and around it went. Up north in Boston Harbor the East Boston Italians avoided the South Boston Irish stripa fishermen and if they converged on feeding fish at the same time there was always conflict. This stripa fishing we all love is serious stuff and I'm glad that you and Sean keep the sparring friendly, kind of funny to see two west coast steelhead fishermen converted to stripa fishing following the course of history:smokin:
For those who do not know much about the factions that used to be in stripa fishing there is a fictional novel called " The Shining Tides" a great story if you can find the book at a rare or used book store. It tells the story just like I used to remember it in real time back in the late 50's and 60's.
Love ya both.
OC

juro
07-11-2006, 11:49 AM
Whats this PROBABLY crap?!?!

:lildevl: :D :hihi:

polareyez
07-11-2006, 12:11 PM
PINK sloggos, what's next, marshmellows and a bobber? or maybe a wad of bread on the hook?:hihi: Sorry Juro, I know I promised you I wouldn't tell....

What could be more challenging than trying to fool a keeper on the flats this time of year? It's actually an enigma wrapped in a puzzle. He sees my fly, he's following it, now he's sticking his tongue out at me....Or he sees my fly and could care less...I like catching fish as much as anyone else, but actually seeing what's happening can't be beat for excitement.

However, as long as the stripers are hard to catch it will keep the numbers of those hunting them down.

sean
07-11-2006, 12:22 PM
There are more ways to see than with your eyes...Seeing fish on the flats or in the surf is a great amount of fun but also being out at night listening to the mockingbirds go through 30 different bird songs while you try to get fish to eat that are on 1 inch silversides or clams worms I find to be just as challenging. Listening and observation are key players at night , you cannot rely solely on your eyes. All senses must be in tune. Different fishing but both have associated challenges.

Squid can be pinkish, maybe that is why those damn sluggos work so well...

-sean

FredA
07-11-2006, 12:46 PM
Back on topic, I think pink sluggoes are neet.

Stripah's are pretty cool too. They reside in or regularly traverse all sorts of inshore habitat and eat all kinds of stuff. They are all over the place in New England waters throughout the season and you can fish for them with all sorts of methoeds. For a lot of us with constraints on time you fish for them using methoeds appropriate for the habitat you fish in. For me, that's shallow flats for the most part. I love sight fishing but most of my fishing is done around dawn or dusk so I fish structure, seams and places I think or know fish will be at and occasionally fish that show themselves.

Other than that I haven't figured out the point of this thread. It's somewhat amusing and embedded in it is some pretty good info. Kinda like another site I lurk at.

BigDave
07-11-2006, 01:09 PM
Pink clouser. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Please tie on heavy hooks :lildevl:

Does this make me a bad person?

OC
07-11-2006, 01:13 PM
Fred,

I can't thank you enough for turning my wife onto pink sluggoes last June. Our life has never been the same and we are very happy now. But what type of sites are you lurking at?

And speaking of pink sluggoes my son caught a rather large dog fish a couple of weeks ago out here in the Pacific Northwest on one of those pink things we bought on Cape Cod. I guy at the marina gave us a dog fish cook book just for the occassion and guess what Dog Fish is not bad table fare.

When it is all said and done we all know Juro dreams of fishing pink sluggoes he just is not ready to come out of the closet yet.:lildevl: I developed a steelhead fly years ago called the Pink Poodle developed after being chased down the banks of the Skykomish River by two white toy poodles with pink ribbons on top of their heads. Would any of you be interested in trying it on the flats? It's deadly out here.

juro
07-11-2006, 01:17 PM
Pink clouser. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Please tie on heavy hooks :lildevl:

Does this make me a bad person?

Pink flatwing clouser with a rubber wiggle tail and jungle cock and a triple shrimp dropper.

juro
07-11-2006, 01:34 PM
with smelly jelly on it :lildevl:

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/images/lures/Scents/scentsSJLiquid_small.jpg

Lefty
07-11-2006, 04:11 PM
And then there is the noahth showah. All bets are off on technique debates. I challenge any of you cape hounds to solve the puzzle. The best FF'men can pick a few twinks out of the rocks this time of year, that's it. C'mon you gots the Monomoy thing solved. Move on before it gets boring. :D

Lefty

juro
07-11-2006, 04:14 PM
Sounds awesome Terry, when do we start? :cool:

Roop
07-11-2006, 04:43 PM
But I wouldn't be caught dead fishing a pink sluggo. Yes I know, open the floodgates whatever.

What has gamefishing come to! I can't even look at them. Worse yet I can't have a striper and a pink sluggo in the same field of vision without thinking something is wrong with that picture.

To each his/her own

Meant Editorially

OK, I'll rise to the bait.... oh - sorry... the FLYYYYYYYY :rolleyes:

Plenty of things I'd like to call you but, you're not worth it.

On 7/9 you could use the info as it was meant, to help beach-bound fly fishermen catch some decent fish. But then, well, the thing speaks for itself.

Ignore the info, ignore how others have success and figure out how to apply it to your style, that way you can keep measuring fish in inches and not pounds. :roll:

striperstripper
07-11-2006, 05:07 PM
Night time is the right time for large ,I've been doing it since I was in my early teens with my dad and brother,whether it was top waterplugs ,subsurface plugs,bucktail jigs,spoons ,tins or eel skins the speed was slow even retrieve with some stop and go action or walking the dog topwater plugs,and it was the same with flyfishing and still is, floating line basicly trout tactics,mending slow in the current,in the backwash of a wave,backout with a rip current ,some times a cast and drift can last several minutes before you play it out and recast.Flatwings and bucktail flys are made for this application.I've been doing this for close to 40 yrs, in my opinion for a shore bound angler night time when all the flats wandering fly guys are soaking up the suds or catching their beauty sleep is real cow time.:hihi: Just my .02 cents worth.

juro
07-11-2006, 05:29 PM
Night time is the right time for large ,I've been doing it since I was in my early teens with my dad and brother,whether it was top waterplugs ,subsurface plugs,bucktail jigs,spoons ,tins or eel skins the speed was slow even retrieve with some stop and go action or walking the dog topwater plugs,and it was the same with flyfishing and still is, floating line basicly trout tactics,mending slow in the current,in the backwash of a wave,backout with a rip current ,some times a cast and drift can last several minutes before you play it out and recast.Flatwings and bucktail flys are made for this application.I've been doing this for close to 40 yrs, in my opinion for a shore bound angler night time when all the flats wandering fly guys are soaking up the suds or catching their beauty sleep is real cow time.:hihi: Just my .02 cents worth.


Yep, Paul I need some more of that. Been too long.

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/chronicles/monomoy2000/juros/morriskeeper.jpg

Last year I played with 5 inch poppers on sinking lines at night - to pull them down on retrieve instead of up. First time trying it I got an ocean suck-hole take I won't soon forget, unfinished business there the hook never stuck (maybe because of the foam).

juro
07-11-2006, 05:56 PM
BTW -

I thought I made it pretty clear that I am just expressing an opinion, and expect to take a lot of crap over it (hence the title) so fire away. I did it on purpose to see if we could get into an engaging discussion about it - without taking it personally.

It strikes me as funny how we've gone all over the place in this thread. I think some folks get a little sensitive when someone voices an opinion about gamefishing with pink rubber, or when they get questioned back after questioning, etc. I don't give a rats ass what anyone does, but I do have a right to an opinion as does everyone.

So if you insinuate, expect insinuation back. If you don't like an opinion, opinion back.

Not worth getting upset over it though!

Now why isn't there a pink tube and worm out there? :lildevl:

Smcdermott
07-11-2006, 06:23 PM
Juro,

Personally I had difficulty trying to figure out what you were trying to accomplish with this thread. My first impression was you were just trying to stir the pot and get some attention on the site. If that is not the case and you honestly wanted to talk tackle I am not sure how can we have a debate about fishing methods on what you have said in the past is a fly only site. Its seems to me that you can take two approaches. Go the way of RT and appeal to a larger audience with broarder subject matter or target a smaller crowd with a more focused mandate. I think JimW got at this point on the creel limit thread. This just doesn't seem like a site with enough variety to do this subject justice.

Sean

Eddie
07-11-2006, 08:38 PM
Well at least weighted eyes serve a purpose, to invert the hook on skinny flats as every bonefisher knows. On the flats the bonefish is the closest cousin of the striper - in terms of behavior.

But those pretty jungle cock eyes and stringy hackles are for fishermen, not the fish - like wearing a tux to a mugging. Stripers are just thick shouldered rugby players of the piscatorial world, lovable thugs, linebackers on a blitz and their brutally frank nature is what I love about them. They are slaves to the beat of the tides and I find no need to glorify things for these bad boys, they are ready to rumble.

However suckering them with a pink rubber phallus is downright demeaning.


Would it make you feel any better if you knew these "bad boys" suckering pink rubber phallus were actually female?

Juro, your editorial would be a troll on any other site and maybe best seved up in the winter. I will say that your fancy anthropomorphication is a form of glorification.:razz:

As for the stringy hackles and jungle cock feathers and fancy anodized reels and the latin and drinking scotch like a limp wristed oenophile, most sluggo fishermen would agree: Flyfishing IS kind of like wearing a tux to a mugging.:razz:

Fishing is fishing. As long as the angler tries to minimize their impact on our shared resource, I could carre less how they fish. In a couple of weeks, the comercial guys will be knocken em dead off of southbeach with the pink sluggos. That...I have a problem with.

striperstripper
07-11-2006, 08:54 PM
Juro ,fast quick sinking lines with large poppers is a great tatic to use at night,have you ever tried bullet head flies,basicly 1 1/2 in long by 3/4 in popper heads turned backwards ,with bucktail collars tyed hollow style around the shank on top of long flatwing hackle .Long slow strips,pulls the fly down with the weight of the line,then allowed to drift or float back up toward the surface.Strip and pause strip and pause,they always seem to hit on the rise with violent strikes.:chuckle: I can think of several places this works quite well if ya interested.

striperstripper
07-11-2006, 09:11 PM
In my opinion ,for what it's worth I think threads like this help to perk up the sight,it's good to let people vent in a non hostle way ,provided we all take it for what it is ,just someone elses opinion there are many ways to fish ,you'd be surprised as the amount of cross over there is from bait casting to flyfishing or spinfishing.Personally I get a little board with I went out today caught fish here then we went here and caught more fish ,how about what was seen how were the fish reacting,what bait was present,now before you ask me why I don;t report this way my answer is simple it's dark I don't see nothen.:hihi: :chuckle:

juro
07-11-2006, 09:56 PM
Juro ,fast quick sinking lines with large poppers is a great tatic to use at night,have you ever tried bullet head flies,basicly 1 1/2 in long by 3/4 in popper heads turned backwards ,with bucktail collars tyed hollow style around the shank on top of long flatwing hackle .Long slow strips,pulls the fly down with the weight of the line,then allowed to drift or float back up toward the surface.Strip and pause strip and pause,they always seem to hit on the rise with violent strikes.:chuckle: I can think of several places this works quite well if ya interested.


Sounds pretty awesome, let's talk offline. I love fishing with an unconventional angle.

OC
07-11-2006, 10:11 PM
I think it is kind of funny that we as fly fishermen can sit as a group in a bar, limp wristed drinking scotch as Balzac, Oh I mean Eddie says, god Eddie that was really good, or in public parking lots drinking expensive local brew after a long day of fishing and voice our strong opinions on many important subjects like pink sluggos, nude gay clamers digging on our flats or meat fishermen shitting on the tide line and leaving their TP a wash in the surf and no one in the group gets pissed. But ya get into a forum situation and folks can go balistic on some poor bastards sick opinion on such subjects and Juro's opinion in my opinion on PINK WORMS was really sick. Meanwhile over at the Ranch Bar & Grill, Meat fishing sluggo using nude gay clam diggers are ripping limp wristed scotch drinking fly fishermen a new one and I don't think no one gets pissed over at their table about it. All I'm trying to say is you are welcome to get pissed about someones opinion here but no need to take it personally. Christ, fishing is the funnest thing you can do in life anyway for most of us be you a fly fisherman, a gear fisherman or one of them swicth hitters. Have fun with it, run with it even if the opinion is one you don't like. We fly fishermen are tighter than, hell I won't even go there way sicker than pink worms. Over the years here at flytalk I have personally met a lot of you and everyone of you that I have met has had humor as part of your fly fishing person, why not here.
Love
OC

juro
07-11-2006, 10:28 PM
Juro,

Personally I had difficulty trying to figure out what you were trying to accomplish with this thread. My first impression was you were just trying to stir the pot and get some attention on the site. If that is not the case and you honestly wanted to talk tackle I am not sure how can we have a debate about fishing methods on what you have said in the past is a fly only site. Its seems to me that you can take two approaches. Go the way of RT and appeal to a larger audience with broarder subject matter or target a smaller crowd with a more focused mandate. I think JimW got at this point on the creel limit thread. This just doesn't seem like a site with enough variety to do this subject justice.

Sean

That's a thought-provoking message. I think it's all in one's perspective. I read about all the fishing sites I can stand each day and what one might see as 'variety' I see as maybe two posts all day that are actually about flyfishing and if lucky, one of them isn't too lame so as to be interesting. (Others would have a totally different perspective than this of course)

I enjoy reading RT and post there, but just as you are justified to ask challenging questions I would ask - what is accomplished by calling it the 'journal of saltwater flyfishing'? Why don't they just call it the journal of saltwater fishing?

I guess all us sites have our quirks. But I see variety in a tarpon home video from a guy living in St.Marten, reports from the Canadian Maritimes from those who are just off the river, first hand accounts of the presence of feeder coho salmon off Neah Bay this week (or not) from Tony G, fly fishing for huge river carp in Manitoba, exploring barely inhabited islands on the out islands of the Bahamian Archipelago, and a sharing of insights over the last several years that has made many people much better fishermen. Some pretty capable flyfishers hang out here and the visitors are truly international which is a different kind of cool for those who find that interesting.

So why did I post this? I will confide in you... it seems that as I read other striper sites lately I hear blah-blah..."pink sluggo" blah-blah..."pink sluggo". I see them floating around and laying on the beaches. I guess I am wondering if that's what striper fishing is coming to; maybe I am just totally out of the loop. I just wanted to declare independence I guess, for the %$&* of it. That's my idea of 'variety'; just editorializing which I thought was pretty clear what with my wording and the post title etc.

I will say it once again.. to each his/her own; but editorially not for me thank you (that is all).

Roop
07-12-2006, 06:08 AM
Over the years here at flytalk I have personally met a lot of you and everyone of you that I have met has had humor as part of your fly fishing person, why not here.
Love
OC

OC - I'm sorry we didn't get together when you were out here because you would have seen that humor is a big part of my fishing.

So pissed isn't the correct description of my response. Disappointed is.

Too many times he will piss on your shoes and then say, "Just kidding" or, "just my opinion".

Shame on me for thinking some information could be useful.

I'll say it again, the mentality exibited here, let me clarify this - the "the way I fish is the Holy way to fish", mentality is why there is a 40 inch club and not a 50 pound club.

Don't get me wrong, a 40" fly caught fish is something I applaud anyone for. But, it's part of a learning, growing, moving out of your comfort zone and catching bigger fish thing for me. And it cannot be accomplished going to the same ankle deep water and doing the same thing again & again.

Well, it can but it's the 50 monkeys with 50 typewriters syndrome...... or is that 100 monkeys?

juro
07-12-2006, 06:26 AM
Roop -

You totally have it wrong. Somehow you think this thread has something to do with your hot tip (?) Where'd you get that impression? You've always had a penchant for these kind of associations as reasons to get upset. I don't think I could have explained it any more than I have.

OK I just re-read your message, you mentioned pink as the hot lure - I see now. Well rest assured this was not related to your post.

Also, by your logic you are catching 50 pound stripers with pink sluggos? Now that I am interested in. If so I might have to find some pink bigfly fiber afterall. Do tell.

BTW - nice of you to drop in once every couple of years.

I am sure you've become a hell of a fisherman now, but I recall when 100 monkeys were bending over backwards to help a total newbie not long ago.

FredA
07-12-2006, 06:53 AM
Well since we're baring latent hostilities...

I'm pro wind power on Horseshoe and I'm pro nuclear, the greenest alternative with realistic scale!!!

juro
07-12-2006, 06:57 AM
:D :hihi: :chuckle:

sean
07-12-2006, 07:18 AM
Juro it is unfair to say this thread was not started as a back handed jab at Roop's post. I honestly have not seen much in the way of 'fun' in this thread or humor. I can see why Roop feels dissed.

A lot of opinion was stated as fact on this thread and then it always comes done to 'just kidding' as a way to not have to justify what you say.

or when they get questioned back after questioning,

Well you never responded to my thread questioning most of what you said. This is a pattern on this board which I find frustrating. We never get anywhere with fishing discussions unless they jive with your point of view. I find that sad cause I do like this board and think you are a fishy guy that helps a lot of people. Not everyone fishes the flats....

It is your board but actual fishing discussion is needed without the ego, at least that is encouraged on RT even if most of it is gear discussions. That kind of attitude could be better fostered on flytalk as well. It would help make us all better fisherman/women.

-sean

juro
07-12-2006, 07:25 AM
Sean -

I think your own words were "Hostile aren't we?". I apologized to you despite your initiating jabs and explained myself amply. I did get carried away with the point counter-point and admit it.

If you really believe I would make a 'backhanded jab' at Roops Chatham post and not just using that to jab yourself, then so be it. However it could not be any further from the truth, I didn't even get the connection. It was directed to the pervasive affliction with pink sluggos across the internet today and the seeming emergence of a pink sluggo culture in striper fishing. It was intended only as a statement of my own conviction, of no consequence to others.

Concerning Roops post etc...

I think the most important single revelation of this thread is this - "people see what they want to see in someone's words despite what they actually say"

"to each his/her own" How many times have I... never mind (see above quote)

May the world enjoy their pink sluggos, I am simply exercising freedom of speech by saying I for one will not use them. If that gets people upset well sorry but I just can't blame myself for all the angst from what people read into it all on their own.

sean
07-12-2006, 07:46 AM
You are missing the point. I am not trying to be be hostile. I am hoping we can get some actual fishing discussions going on this board and this post seemed a good time to bring it up. Our exchange at the beginning of this thread had nothing to do about sluggos. Sure it was brought back to that after you poo pooed my chosen method of striper fishing in this post:

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showpost.php?p=160470&postcount=14

Is full of just plain wrong information pertaining to estuary fishing. Personal jabs to me are fine. We joke around all the time. It is just when things get thrown out as fact like in that post it cannot all be explained away as joking. That is where to me 'to each his own' crosses the line.


That is all I have to \say on this post as I have gotten a lilttle carried away.

Till next time,

-sean

juro
07-12-2006, 07:53 AM
Sean,

I hope you got my PM.

It's not at all that I don't respect your methods, again I mistakingly thought we were going to spin the topic up a little (aka friendly sparring).

When you started on the clouser eyes and down talking the flatz I got the typewriter monkey wound up :D (thanks Roop I like that)

You made me out to be a one-dimensional flatshound, but you know damn well I am an avid rip, surf and estuary fisher. When my kids are out of college I will add a boat to that too and follow Roop around hoping he doesn't catch me doing it.

So I thought you might be winding me up a little too with all that trash talk, my mistake.

Jim Miller
07-12-2006, 08:04 AM
My God ...... this is getting old

BigDave
07-12-2006, 08:16 AM
So how do we all feel about umbrella rigs?

The pink sluggo is harmless compared to those things.

At least you have to cast the sluggo. Dragging umbrellas is walking the line between fishing and just hauling meat.

Lefty
07-12-2006, 09:04 AM
..So why did I post this? I will confide in you... it seems that as I read other striper sites lately I hear blah-blah..."pink sluggo" blah-blah..."pink sluggo". I see them floating around and laying on the beaches. I guess I am wondering if that's what striper fishing is coming to...



No, it's the Storm Shad dummy! God some people don't pay attention to plastic trends. :) Hey are there pink Storm Shads?
Nice thread.

Lefty

Penguin
07-12-2006, 12:05 PM
Pink Storm Shads?!

Eddie
07-12-2006, 12:43 PM
Totally out of line! Juro, I am afraid you owe Roop an apology. This is the kind of thread that could be fun....and I tried....but....It is time for a reality check. Have you wife (or daughter or your sense read this thread (if any of them could stand it). I would be a little embarrassed.
I hate to see "friends" get pissy.

I'll be on the water in a few hours.....ahhhhh.

Adrian
07-12-2006, 02:19 PM
To me, I care a lot more about what goes on between a fisherman's ears than I do about the gear he holds in his hands or pulls behind his boat.

There is nothing unsporting about gear fishing unless the angler makes it so by his behavior. Flyrodders can do some pretty unsportsmanlike things too.

I for one don't believe that the folks who hang out here belong to that category, whatever method they choose. We are all free to follow our own path. We can express an opinion about the paths others choose to follow but let's not be disrespectful of those choices.

flydoc
07-12-2006, 03:06 PM
I have been following this thread since it's inception, and I must admit I'm more than a bit disapppointed in the hostility and negative attitudes expressed in many of the posts. Differences of opinion, even arguments over opinions, are one thing. Outright name-calling and bad-mouthing of others is another. I encourage you all in the future to keep things on a civil plane, even if someone's opinion in a post gets under your skin or if you perceive you have been disrespected in some way. If you feel that you must respond to what you perceive as a personal insult, please take it to the PM's and spare the rest of us the vitriolic diatribe. I for one, and I'm sure most of those who visit this site, do so to converse with/inform/learn from kindred souls interested in/passionate about many aspects of flyfishing. This includes the many different techniques, enviroments, situations, species, fly gear and of course fly patterns involved. This site is, by its name and nature, a flyfishing site. Those who chose to place posts suggesting/encouraging use of fishing methods or gear other than flyfishing, however successful those techniques or gear may be in comparison to flyfishing, should not be suprised, shocked, or insulted to find that members on this site consider such posts to be inappropriate or unwelcome. This is a FLYFISHING site, not a striper fishing site or an artificial lures site. If you are looking for a warm reception for posts not related to flyfishing, there are plenty of sites on the web that are appropriate for such posts. I and many others chose to pursue flyfishing because of the challenge of catching fish on a fly (particularly one tied by one's own two hands). That does not make me a snob or an elitist. I do not "look down" on people who use other methods to catch fish, and readily admit that in many situations such techniques will be more successful. But I also do not go on bait fishing or lure fishing sites and place posts recommending flyfishing or use of flyfishing techniques/gear, nor do I place posts looking down my nose at the folks who use other techniques. I would hope for/expect the same courtesy from the folks who choose to use those other techniques.
As for differences of opinion related to flyfishing, once again, please keep it civil or take it to the PM's.
Flydoc

Smcdermott
07-12-2006, 03:59 PM
If you are looking for a warm reception for posts not related to flyfishing, there are plenty of sites on the web that are appropriate for such posts. I and many others chose to pursue flyfishing because of the challenge of catching fish on a fly (particularly one tied by one's own two hands). That does not make me a snob or an elitist. I do not "look down" on people who use other methods to catch fish, and readily admit that in many situations such techniques will be more successful. But I also do not go on bait fishing or lure fishing sites and place posts recommending flyfishing or use of flyfishing techniques/gear, nor do I place posts looking down my nose at the folks who use other techniques. I would hope for/expect the same courtesy from the folks who choose to use those other techniques.
Flydoc

Doc,

I see this as a problem. While I agree that this is a flyfishing site to outright dismiss the mentioning of other gear is a tough line to toe. What if I was teasing marlin into flycasting range using using a six rod spread in Costa Rica (something I have never done but would like to). How about just teasing some stripers up to the boat with a hookless popper and spin gear for a new flycaster or just for the fun of it. I posted a report last year about an awesome day I had on the water with two friends throwing sluggos while I was flyfishing. How about Adrians sailfish from a kayak. Is that no longer acceptable. Roop was kind enough to let us know there was a solid striper bite going on off Chatham that he found while returning from a tuna trip. We should encourage that kind of heads up not tell him to take his information elsewhere or slide in a few backhands (even if they were unintenional). The fact is while a few members of this board choose fly fishing as there only method there are many, particularly those with boats, who carry a variety of gear. I choose to mainly throw the long wand but if I didn't allow gear some of my best friends would be left out. I say we keep the gear talk to minimum to preserve the sites overall feel but lets not get our panties in a bunch when someone mentions they caught a few fish on some rubber. Afterall I think the only fish caught at the big brother event were just that.

Sean

Roop
07-12-2006, 04:31 PM
I'll say it again, the mentality exibited here, let me clarify this - the "the way I fish is the Holy way to fish", mentality is why there is a 40 inch club and not a 50 pound club.

flydoc - your post qualifies you as the poster boy for my argument. Your t-shirt is in the mail, I apologize though, we only have an XXL head hole for you to get your mellon through - it may be too small.

Also, by your logic you are catching 50 pound stripers with pink sluggos? Now that I am interested in. If so I might have to find some pink bigfly fiber afterall. Do tell.

I am sure you've become a hell of a fisherman now, but I recall when 100 monkeys were bending over backwards to help a total newbie not long ago.

Dude - I have THE FLY that will do the job, just no time to get out there & do it.

As far as my becoming "a hell of a fisherman" well, if the truth be told, my mojo is about gone - I am distracted by too many techniques, worrying about water temp, matching the hatch or going for something that stands out, running mine or someone else's boat & no free time to fish.

All that PLUS I have to worry what 50 well dressed gentlemen, standing shoulder to shoulder in ankle deep, too warm water, while casting to stressed out & over-heated fish, measuring their fish in inches, who - thank god - have all the answers on how to catch & release a fish, think about my non-traditional fly-tying, sinking line, old 2-stroke polluting the evironment outboard, fish killing, spin rod using, baby kicking, kitten eating, drinks beer out of a can, bait slinging and worst of all - REPUBLICAN.... well it's too much for my simple little mind to wrap around.

Just my opinion. :D

Roop

FredA
07-12-2006, 05:28 PM
This thread is an endless loop of utter nonsense. Wife says we're like a bunch of sensitive old ladies. Some real crap being spewed here.

We got the forum leader who can't break out of his debate society suit and say touche'. Has to get in the last word. Then we have a guy who thinks the thread initiation was all about him, when it had absolutely nothing to do with him and a guy who all of a sudden thinks everyone has blinders on and fishes for stripers in singular fashion (wonder who he's been hanging with.

Anyhow this threads going about as far as a political or religous debate at a cocktail party...to a massive hangover and regret that we may have made an ass of ourselves.

Somebody, please lock it down. (not Juro)

seuss
07-12-2006, 05:34 PM
someone please take aim and put a bullet in this thread. i tried shooting through my monitor but all it did was wreck my monitor. so i went out and bought another, hooked it up, restarted my machine, hoping the thread would by then be dead. but its not. perhaps one more shot. i'll go reload.

flydoc
07-12-2006, 05:55 PM
Sean- I didn't/wouldn't have a problem with that, provided it could be done with some degree of civility. But unfortunately this thread has convinced me that there are some on this site who are unable to have such a mixed gear discussion without losing their cool, and therefore are intent on ruining things for the rest of us. But until cooler heads prevail and the rabble rousers have left the building, I think such discussions should at least be moved to the open section of the forum.
Flydoc

Smcdermott
07-12-2006, 06:02 PM
Looks like most want the thread locked which I have no problem with. I will completely move it if that is the consensus. See Juro's pole at the top of this forum.

Sean