I need therapy or help [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: I need therapy or help


TallFlyguy
06-21-2006, 03:56 AM
Hi guys,

Started using tubeflies last year with good success. I was using tiemco 105's.

Well This year I keep losing fish on this hook. Thought it was me, but now I'm doubting the hook. I'm 0 for 10 this last month:( :( :( .

I can't use a long shanked hook because the rabbit strip will foul, so the daiichi 2451 is out.. Any other options you guys have? The closest one I've found is the Mustad 9174, or the daiichi 1640.

Help???

Thanks

juro
06-21-2006, 07:06 AM
Some thoughts:

- if it's a matter of keeping them on try a hook with a more offset "sag" toward the point half of the bend rather than a semi-circular bend

- if it's a set issue, then look for a thinner wire hook made of premium alloy (strong enough)

- try a size that is big enough to stick but small enough to stay lodged; depending on tube dressing I like a size 1 most of the time for summer run

How are they gettiing off the hook?

Sometimes it's the rod. I've had better results landing fish by using a rod that has more flex to it than a super fast or stiff one. Also the angle that one holds the rod can be a factor.

(BTW - if you've hooked 10 summer fish last month I am green with envy!)

Charlie
06-21-2006, 07:24 AM
TallFlyguy,

You may want to take a look at this thread

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=21607&highlight=tube+hooks

It has a lot of good info on Tube fly hooks and what our members have found out about them.

Charlie

sean
06-21-2006, 08:49 AM
Are you sharpening them every run or so?

Number one reason for fish lost IMHO...used to not care about it but in recent times I have really noticed the number of fish hooked solidly when I am religious about constant hook sharpening.

-sean

TallFlyguy
06-21-2006, 10:47 AM
Charlie, Yes I have read that post a couple of times actually. The hooks you recommend are not suitable to the flies I use. I like rabbit and marabou, the longer shanked 2451's I found they foul the material up a little bit because they sit so far back off the tube. Basically the shank is too long.

Sean, I do sharpen them. I have a metal file I keep bungee corded to my waders so I have it at all times. I'm always making sure the hooks are "sticky" sharp.

Just wondering if you guys have found a short shank hook that is:

A: Thin enough to get good penetration,

B: Short Shanked

C: Available in a larger size than a 4.

D: you have maybe used and your hooked to landing ratio is very good.

Is the Salar/Partridge MM3ST a good hook?

Wanted to add a question. Is the x510 to thick? I mean would 10lb Flourocarbon line be enough to penetrate the lips of a Steelie? From the pictures it looks to thick.

Thanks

sean
06-21-2006, 11:09 AM
Try:

Daiichi 2451 #4
Partridge Nordic Single Tube Fly Hooks #4 & #6

The nordic tubes are fairly short.

These are what my fishiest friends use and swear by. Interesting they never use larger than size 4 and they fish for a notoriusly large and powerful race of steelhead. For tubes smaller can be better as they really imbed themselves into the fishs jaw lessening the chance of them coming loose during the fight.

-sean

beau purvis
06-21-2006, 12:09 PM
First of all,I second Juro's comment about a flexible rod.The hooks I use for tubes[mostly Ed Ward,Scott Howell type intruder shanks] are;owner ssw size 1,Gamakatsu octopus size 1,and most often lately, Gamaakatsu size 1 finese wide gap.You would not believe how many hooks I have tried.Heated and custom bent 2451's to offset owner bass worm hooks.By the way ,the later were the best hookup ratio.They just did not hold up to Dean fish.However ,the ratio of land to hook ,on those fish was still over 70%.Only ones not landed were due to bending.I even emailed owner to make a stronger version.Eventually they did,but only on 2/0 and up.I wanted a 1 and 2.actually ,now that I think about it I might try them again on Skeena system fish.Went 10 for 10 once there.The three mention above have had no failures.I have used the 105 hook.Too many times it was a skin hookup.Dont trust those,especially on big fish.although,I did land a 41 and a 41+" fish on that hook.All those hooks I mentioned are Up eye to semi up.Therefore I dont pull the eye into the juction tubing.I use a small enough tube to just pull my knot of a nonslip loop into the tubing and it is snug.And, with the loop wrapped around the hook shank the leader holds it in a nice ,non floppy position.I use a lot of thin rabbit strip string leach ties on this setup.Beau

Charlie
06-21-2006, 12:09 PM
The MM3ST is the Partridge Nordic Single Tube Fly Hook that Sean talks about. Unfortunately I have not tested this hook while steelhead fishing so I can't give it thumbs up or down myself. I just got a few packs of them so this fall I will give them a go. It looks like it should be a good hook.

As for the Partridge Salar single tube fly hook - CS14T, this is a great hook. My hooking and landing ratio was very good with this hook. Unfortunately it may have a longer shank then what you are looking for.

I think the big problem with the 105 is that the barb looks like it is very close to the bend of the hook and I don't think it penetrates properly before the fishes jaw meets the bend. Just theories mind you but my experiences with the hook mirror yours. I lost a bunch of fish with it.

I have not used the hooks that beau purvis mentions but I have some friends that have and they seem to confirm his observations, so I would look into them

Charlie

beau purvis
06-21-2006, 12:24 PM
Saw your 2nd post.As,I said, I use a lot of long rabbit with a John Shewey Marabou [translatin=very long fiber]for the front hackle.That wide gap hook really doesnt have a shank.Just a little past point, with very interesting shape.I dont have any big problem of tangle.I use spirit river narrow 1/16 zonker strip.Beau

TallFlyguy
06-21-2006, 01:25 PM
Beau, I rigged up a tube, put on a size 1 finnesse gamakazu. It seems when you use the non-slip loop and loop around the hook rather than right to the hook, the hook gets Propped up a bit when in or against the junction tubing. it looks "beau"tiful.:D :D

thanks a ton. Only concern is how is the knot strength on the non-slip loop. I know the perfection loop knot strength really sucks. You have no doubts about the knot-strength of the non-slp knot?

Tall

sean
06-21-2006, 01:45 PM
Beau will answer I am sure but forget the perfection loop. Try a lefty's loop as it retains a substantial amount of the lines breaking strain (and is dead simple to tie) where a perfection loop is only abut 50%.

-sean

TallFlyguy
06-21-2006, 02:43 PM
Ok, now that I have to use the loop, i've tested a few knots against each other 1 vs. 1.

I took a piece of 10lb fluoro and put a loop on each end. Then I Took two pens and looped them and gently pulled until breakage occured.

The lefty/non slip knot wins easily to perfection loop.

The Double overhand knot/loop wins easily to the non slip knot.

<non-sponsor link removed>

I was kinda shocked actually, but it happend three times. The double overhand is much easier to tie and a much faster tie as well.

Any other loop test 1 vs. 1 you want to know about? Let me know.

juro
06-21-2006, 03:44 PM
Tall fly guy -

Per the membership agreement you checked, no direct links to non-sponsor sites are allowed.

You are welcome to use the image link to the pictures as I had done for you.

thanks for following the rules of the forum

Juro

TallFlyguy
06-21-2006, 11:25 PM
Juro, sorry. Was just posting link to the instructions. Was wondering how that picture got there and no the link.:frown: :confused:

Will not do it again. I have no affiliation with tha site, it just came up on the google search.

Tall

juro
06-22-2006, 05:59 AM
No problem, and I might have sounded a bit stern from the gazillion times I've done it but it was not meant as a reflection on you directly in fact I like your spirited participation and glad you are on board.

Great topic

beau purvis
06-22-2006, 06:57 AM
I have never broken the nonslip at the knot.Always come back with two tag ends.Very important how you tie it.I was first introduced to it by an excellent guide.However he missed one omportant detail which detracted from its strenth.Discovered that a couple yrs later,somehow.When you make your twists and turn the tag end back towards the hook to go back through the half granny loop ,you must go back thru the same side as the first pass but[the key]between the first pass line and the top of the granny loop[not just thru the center of the granny and below the pass thru line].Beau

beau purvis
06-22-2006, 07:13 AM
By the double overhand ,I assume that is a double surgeon.I just did a pulloff with 12 maxima and there was a tie 2of2. the line broke in the middle.When I rig my hook I want a small loop so the hook does not dangle out to far at the end,You cant do that with surgeon.With nonslip loop ,I put in the half granny,take tag thru eye,under shank and around and back out thru eye,twist and complete.This way I can control size without regard to slipping over entire hook to attach.beau

beau purvis
06-22-2006, 07:17 AM
I use surgeons to attach tippet when fishing floating line.John Farrar and Dec taught me to go with triple.Beau

TallFlyguy
06-22-2006, 08:56 PM
Ok I tested again and the nonslip knot won. I did as you said before only this time I wrapped the tag end around the mainline counter clockwise as per instructions rather that clockwise (much easier for me). When I did it this way the non-slip knot won. I'm using maxima 10lb flouro for testing. Don't know if that makes a difference.