Flurocarbon and surface action and knots [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Flurocarbon and surface action and knots


Adam
05-27-2006, 08:51 AM
I've been considering using a straight 50# flurocarbon leader (6') for my pike (big pike, 30-50") trip next week, as DbleHaul has suggested. As FC sinks, I was wondering how this will effect my poppers' and gurglers' (tied on 1/0 and 2/0 hooks) surface action. Will the FC pull the flys under water too much? No problem with streamers, of course.

As for FC and knots, I know that they can be tricky and may not hold under certain circumstances, so I just want to be sure that I'll be using the rights knots. I'm new to the slim beauty, but intend on using it where appropriate. And, I also plan on using the Homer Rhodes loop knot to tie on to the flies. I also like the no-slip loop knot. Will these knots (using 50# FC) hold well to the fly? I know that the HR loop knot is no where near 100%, but with a 50# line, I sure it won't matter, eh?

Sorry for the double-post, but I'm also posting this on the Lines, Loops and Leaders sub-forum. I posted here first and then saw the other sub-forum, which may be the more appropriate forum.

Quentin
05-27-2006, 12:31 PM
It will depend a lot on how bouyant your flies are. I've used straight 40# fluoro for leaders for pike fishing with foam head divers, which are fairly bouyant. The heavy fluoro does have an effect on the fly's action if I give the leader time to sink. The leader may not pull the fly under on its own but will drag the fly downward instead of forward when I pull the line. It also takes longer for the fly to resurface between tugs. This is not a problem if I begin the retrieve right away and do not allow long pauses during the retrieve.

As for knots, I just use a loop-to-loop connection at the butt end and an improved clinch knot to tie on the fly. Not sure if the 50# line is too thick for clinch knots, they are a little hard to tie with the 40# line depending on how big the hook eye is.

FWIW, even the smaller pike will still bite through the 40# fluoro. Maybe 50# is heavy enough to prevent most bite-offs? I know that Mark (Dble Haul) had good results with 50# fluoro at Ontario.

Good luck and let us know how you do!

Q

Adam
05-27-2006, 04:48 PM
Thanks for the input, Quentin. What you describe is what I expected. But, as you say, if I keep chugging the fly, it should act as it should. Anyway, if it doesn't, I'll just have to go to a nylon leader with a wire tippet. Do that successfully on my last trip north, but aestheticlly, the FC better appeals to me.

Dble Haul
05-28-2006, 10:35 PM
Quentin is right, I had very good success with fifty pound fluoro earlier this year. I've had pike bite through fifty pound Seaguar, but on this last trip we used Berkley Vanish and didn't have a single bite off. I'm sure it can happen, but I have far more confidence with this particular brand because of my recent experiences with it.

I like a non-slip mono loop knot for the fluoro. If you use this knot, just be sure to leave enough of a tag end to pull and retighten the knot if necessary.

Good luck on your trip.....I envy you for the location that you'll be visiting. :)

Warren
05-29-2006, 06:06 AM
I switched to using the non slip loop knot as well. I use it for everything except the smallest trout flies. I also went to using that knotable leader wire for bite tippets.

I just tie a surgeons loop in one end and loop to loop it on my tippet which is usually a 20lb floro. Then a short section of wire about 6 or 8 inches. Then use the non slip loop to connect the fly. If I am blue fishing I use a longer length so I can tie on a couple of flies before the wire gets too short.

Adam
05-29-2006, 10:12 AM
Quentin is right, I had very good success with fifty pound fluoro earlier this year. I've had pike bite through fifty pound Seaguar, but on this last trip we used Berkley Vanish and didn't have a single bite off. I'm sure it can happen, but I have far more confidence with this particular brand because of my recent experiences with it.

I like a non-slip mono loop knot for the fluoro. If you use this knot, just be sure to leave enough of a tag end to pull and retighten the knot if necessary.

Good luck on your trip.....I envy you for the location that you'll be visiting. :)

I'm going to use Vanish, also. It is the least expensve of the flouros. However, I recently read an article about the various FCs, and while noted that Vaniush was the cheapest tested, it also had the worst performance in terms of breaking not at the know, but on the line. Anyway, at 50#, or even 40# for that matter, I doubt it will make a difference with pike, no matter how big.

As for knots, I generally use the no-slip loop for just about all my fly tie ins. I figured on using the Homer Rhodes with the 50# flouro because I thought it would be easier to tie than the no-slip loop...especially when it is in the 40s and you can't feel your finger tips. My concern is that I have never used flouro and have read much about the need to tie proper flouro knots, otherwise they don't hold. So, at this point I don't know if the HR with hold, but I do know that no-slips will hold.

If I go with the no-slip, how many turns with the 50# FC?

BTW, Dble Haul, I appreciate your envy...Thanks for the best wishes. I'll be posting a little trip report when I get back, and I hope to have some pictures of the "big one." After two previous trips to this place, the biggest northern I've gotten was 46.5", while the lakes's biggest came in at somewhere between 50 and 55". When I start fishing (6/3) it will be about twp weeks post ice-out and I've been told that the waters will be lower than it has been in previous years, which will make for good fishing. Although I think I have gotten over my "trophy fever," I will still have to force myself to try for more top water action than in previous years. I think this will reduce my chances of catching the "big one," but I'll have more fun if the northerns cooperate on top.

Got into northern fishing after fishing for pickerel when I lived in NJ. Loved them pickerel. Fished them in a very shallow lake from a canoe and used only, and Imean only, top water flies. I just couldn't get enough of the pickerel's great charge tot he fly. So after having done this, I figured why not go after the big guys up north? But when I got up there, I fished mostly streamers (trophy fever), and surface ocassionally. But now, whenever the water gets calm, I'm going surface.

Adrian
05-29-2006, 02:10 PM
Rather than a full 6' 50lb leader, have you tried using a shock tippet a la Tarpon / Sailfish config?

That way you can reduce the heavy fluro to 12" or less and rig the rest of the leader with a short taper of regular mono. It's a bit more effort to set these "big game" leaders up but they might solve the presentation problem?

Dble Haul
05-29-2006, 09:58 PM
I use a four turn non-slip mono loop, even with the fifty pound test.

My leader set up is forty pound mono with the fifty pound fluoro shock tippet, which is attached via a loop to loop connection. It makes changing nicked sections of bite tippet easier.