On Pam Anderson and Baby Seals [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: On Pam Anderson and Baby Seals


Charlie
04-04-2006, 09:16 AM
Yes sports fans, its time once again for the great Canadian Seal hunt. The Seal hunt made $14.5 million for the Canadian economy last year and helped to thin seal populations, which are believed to be to high for there own good right now. The high population of seals in the last few years has been attributed to low levels of seal predators, like killer whales and polar bears, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the decline of the cod and Atlantic salmon fisheries.

Everyone’s favorite bimbo, Pam Anderson, is speaking out against the hunt on behalf of PETA. She has asked to meet with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper on the issue.

Charlie

juro
04-04-2006, 02:07 PM
I also heard she can't catch a fish to save her life without using an indicator :lildevl:

Philster
04-04-2006, 06:07 PM
I also heard she can't catch a fish to save her life without using an indicator :lildevl:

Or a man without using two:Eyecrazy: Oh No I Didn'!!!!!!!:tsk_tsk:

bluenose
04-04-2006, 06:35 PM
Is silicone an endangered species? :chuckle:

I've always wondered if these people use leather belts/coats/shoes.

regards

striblue
04-04-2006, 09:12 PM
Oh Boy...I better stay out of this one!!! :lildevl: :wink:

Dble Haul
04-04-2006, 09:17 PM
You'd think that Pam would want to see the seals harvested out of pure envy......envy that they're smarter than her. :rolleyes:

juro
04-04-2006, 09:20 PM
It think it's probably gone as far off course as it will, but thanks for making light of it John.

On topic - I am not a big fan of the baby seal hunt or Pam Anderson for that matter but I do feel we can't oppose that one hunt while not opposing veal farming, or even poultry farms which are far less humane than a fast dispatch regardless of how abrupt and graphic it may be. There are possibly hundreds if not thousands of more heinous albeit less emotional things we do to less cuddly things yet we turn the other cheek on them every day.

I would rather the salmon population be so well cared for that we needed to stop the seal hunt to help us deal with the nuisance salmon that choke every river in the north atlantic. :D

Manitou
04-05-2006, 01:14 PM
There is a big difference between wild seals and poultry or any farm raised animal

Seals are wild animal that deserve to live

Cow, chicken and pigs are breed for food and raised in farms for food, using the farm animal excuse to validate the hunt is bull......




Jocelin

juro
04-05-2006, 01:32 PM
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I, however I need to correct you in that I am not validating the hunt - only pointing out that there are many additional abuses of life, whether we classify it as "farm" or "wild".

For instance chickens have their beaks removed and are forced to spend their lives on wire mesh with crippled feet because they are packed so tightly in coops that they would peck each other to death and their own feces would harm them unless it could fall below their living quarters. They are injected with antibiotics to prevent them from dying from their farming practices. I only eat free ranging chicken and eggs but that is only a small gesture and doesn't solve the problem.

In contrast, the pup dies instantly. Now again, I am not saying either is right - I am in fact saying both are wrong. And I will not get into veal or a pet peeve of mine - farmed salmon... now there is a wild animal that is forced to be farmed as I am sure all of these domestic animals once were.

However the glamour set seems to focus on only one of the two, I hope that clears up my point. I admire your conviction to protecting the seals though and hope the hunt is stopped.

Charlie
04-05-2006, 01:45 PM
Jocelin,

I don’t think Juro would disagree with you on this. I think he is looking at things from PETA’s point of view. These people are ruled by raw emotion. On one hand they say that harming any animal is wrong and should be stopped. However, when it comes to picking their battles they seem to only fight for the “cute” or “glamorous” ones. You never see PETA outside of a supermarket protesting the sale of rat poison. Death caused by rat poison is infinitely crueler than being clubbed on the head. Most modern rat poison has Kumadin in it. It is a blood thinner that makes the rats bleed to death internally over an extended period of time. Has anyone seen PETA out protesting against rat poison? Rats aren’t cute or Glamorous so Pam and the crew could care less about their suffering.

Charlie.

Salar-1
04-05-2006, 03:53 PM
FYI
1-95 % of the harp seal are shot by rifle and NOT clubbed. The ugly pic's of the guys using picks to club the baby whitecoats are from 20 years back.This hunt is VERY closely regulated.
2-The"whitecoats" are not allowed to be harvested.
3- Talk to any of the Coast Guard chopper pilots that do the ice patrolin th Gulf of St Lawrence about seal #'s and then say the hunt needs to be stopped.The #'s are WAY up.Even more than last year ,and I've seen the jpg's from '05
4- ask yourself why a seal is travelling 20 kms UP a SALMON river during a runwhen the friggin things hate fresh water.
5- 2 weeks ago in Nfld on one river during the smolt and herring run 200 seal were noticed in the mouth of the river.
6- 5 yrs. back there was sandbar in the estuary of the Ste Anne and salmon were blocked from going upstream. I've seen a pic of a cute seal tossing a 20lb Atlantic Salmon into the air .
7- Quite a few Newfoundland familes need this hunt to get through the year.
8- the Quebec North Shore runs have been mysteriously decimated. They just happen to run through the Strait of Belisle which is rife with Harp and Grey seal.
9- Stop this hunt and then explain to folk that guide and nurture visiting Salmon anglers why the #'s are down !


a couple of prominant stars have spoken up for People Eat Tasty Animals this year .Paul Mcartney and his wife who ventured out on the ice in their petroleum based survival suites and then were interviewed on Larry King where Mrs Paul was proud to say her boots were NON leather (RE: PETROLEUM based) So we should all use non renuable resourses for our clothes ?? and as far Pamela Anderson I tink dat Silicone is also very much peroleum based as well.


I'll go back to lurking in the bottom of the pool now
Cheers

chromedome
04-05-2006, 10:00 PM
I must say that a lot of the comments here have broadened my perspective. And perhaps most of the news coverage I've followed is biased against the hunt. But from the bulk of the info I've seen:

The most prevalent way of killing seals is with a club. That's about the most chicken #### (excrement) killing method I can think of for a human to use on an animal that is totally defenseless. Often, I read, the seals are skinned alive, the carcasses left quivering on the ice. I do read that some are shot, but obviously there's a better chance for less damage to the fur if clubbing is used. Then too there's the safety factor if bullets were flying around with so many humans on the ice. And there's little question in my mind about what method the bulk of these so-called hunters would use when the factor of wasting a bullet is factored into the equation. No guys, its usually clubbing, and far too often not just one quick fatal blow to the head.

I've seen the logic applied where one states that one bad thing isn't so bad when you look at all the other bad things going on of a related nature. That's twisted logic in my humble view. To try to make light of barbaric treatment of one species by saying that other species are also being similarly treated is just not good quality thinking.

I know seals take salmon, just as the sea lions are having a field day on the salmon out west. And the problem is begging for a solution. But why do we have the salmon depletion problem now? It certainly wasn't a problem centuries ago. I thought we identified the main cause of salmon depletion. We certainly know that cessation of many netting activities has significantly increased salmon populations which should tell anyone with an open mind who has been the real culprit here. But now there's just not enough fishery resources left for us to share with seals and the other co-predators on the planet. And our population is still increasing. Maybe a good case can be made for some culling of the seals. But Gawd, do we have to be so barbaric about it!?

juro
04-05-2006, 10:28 PM
I've seen the logic applied where one states that one bad thing isn't so bad when you look at all the other bad things going on of a related nature. That's twisted logic in my humble view. To try to make light of barbaric treatment of one species by saying that other species are also being similarly treated is just not good quality thinking.

I know seals take salmon, just as the sea lions are having a field day on the salmon out west. And the problem is begging for a solution.

Again, I have to correct your assessment as the only twist here (twice twisted in fact as I have already explained this) is what you just said...

No one is saying clubbing seals is not bad because of other mistreatment to other animals, what I said was that they are all bad and ALL should be the focus of celebrities and the general public alike.

My point is diametrically opposed to what you suggested I said. I said "equal consideration for all abuses" and you said "clubbing seals is OK because the others are mistreated too".

A fault of human nature is that the masses seem to polarize on one concept whether it is fashionable, or just easier to comprehend because of one thing or another.

About the west coast situation - as a former longtime resident of Seattle the most prominent interaction between seals and salmon is by far the Chittenden Locks in Ballard. This is a situation whereby a man-made structure created a bloodbath for salmon and the seals over generations taught their young to reside here during the runs, and they taught their young and so on and so forth.

A simple series of vertical bars narrow enough to keep seals out while allowing salmon to pass would end the massacre. Angling the bars and arranging them to direct the fish would help even more. I thought of that without much of an effort, yet the authorities insist on transporting them hundreds of miles only to have them return as fast as they can swim. They've tried fake orca and their sounds, they've tried fireworks, they've tried it all. It's all failed miserably. These feeble attempts are also largely influenced by animal rights activists who hand out pamphlets to children and visitors to try to foster amiable feelings toward the cute and cuddly seals.

Seals are cool, they abound on the Monomoy Wildlife refuge where I spend a significant amount of time each summer. I like them and for the third time, I hope the clubbing is prohibited. For the third time, I hope people stop polarizing their concerns around fashionable species and look at such abuses as a whole, particularly the celebrity set.

I am having a bit of de ja vu saying this, but I hope that clarifies my point (again).

sean
04-05-2006, 11:01 PM
Hmm dragging a fish around with a hook for 10-20 minutes...clubbing a seal. :redface:

We are alpha predators. Most of us just choose to play with our food and let it go. I feel if you start splitting hairs it does nothing but lose yourself credibility. I try not to forget we are involved in a blood sport and giving these PETA types any reason to show we are questioning others methods is not the united front we should be putting up.

-sean

chromedome
04-06-2006, 12:46 AM
My point is diametrically opposed to what you suggested I said. I said "equal consideration for all abuses" and you said "clubbing seals is OK because the others are mistreated too".

I never said that clubbing seals is OK. And on review of your earlier statements I feel this is all starting to seem like a quagmire. There is activity in the area of the other abuses you mentioned. But the seals probably do get the most attention, one reason being the cuddly nature of the babies. Then too, its easier and more successful to pinpoint and go after a single abuse than to tackle the whole raft of abuses out there which is probably a reason why more activists have singled out the seals.

juro
04-06-2006, 01:34 AM
Interpretations of words seem to be a real problem; I should have said "you said I said" instead. However it seems you understand the point I was trying to make that all creatures deserve respect not just the 'cuddly' ones.

over and out

chromedome
04-06-2006, 05:14 PM
Interpretations of words seem to be a real problem; I should have said "you said I said" instead. However it seems you understand the point I was trying to make that all creatures deserve respect not just the 'cuddly' ones.

over and out

Yes, I do understand and wholeheartedly agree.

SteelBoneguy
04-07-2006, 06:14 PM
Salar-1

Nice to see someone w/ some facts.

On another board I belong to, a local where the seal hunt takes place. Told how celebrities go in and try to stop the seal harvest. When the locals truly rely on the seal meat to survie winter. The harvest is strictly regulated. The hunt is done very humanely.

Eddie
04-07-2006, 08:10 PM
Yawn....peta again. Wacky Rack Anderson really makes peta credible.:roll:

PaladinRamsay
04-08-2006, 12:23 PM
5622


TO SOME WE ARE ALL THE SAME!!!!


JUST FOR PERSPECTIVE i WOULD SUGEST YOU WATCH A COUPLE OF VIDEOS ON THE PETA SITE..........THE CATTLE SLAUTER ONE WAS REAL SWEET.....A CLUB TO THE HEAD SEEMS SOOOOOOO HUMANE AFTER WATCHING THAT.

WATCH OUT.......YOUR NEXT!!!!!!

HERE ARE A COUPLE OF LINKS:

http://www.fishinghurts.com/feat-newcomic.asp

http://www.peta.org/

juro
04-08-2006, 01:20 PM
yes they are right!

And those nasty animals are the worst of all... they tear each other apart with their claws and teeth and eat each other. They've been doing that since the dawn of creation and have not changed over the years like humans, who decide they are going to jump out of the circle of life and criticize each other.

But we are only one species - let's stop the carnage! Stop all animals from eating other animals! Animals kill animals! STOP THEM!

:hihi: :chuckle:

DGEL
04-18-2006, 02:11 PM
I must say that a lot of the comments here have broadened my perspective. And perhaps most of the news coverage I've followed is biased against the hunt. But from the bulk of the info I've seen:
The most prevalent way of killing seals is with a club. That's about the most chicken #### (excrement) killing method I can think of for a human to use on an animal that is totally defenseless. Often, I read, the seals are skinned alive, the carcasses left quivering on the ice. I do read that some are shot, but obviously there's a better chance for less damage to the fur if clubbing is used.
A shame to see how effective misinformation is when used to further a political agenda. Despite what the campaigners would like you to believe, the seals are shot not clubbed, and that's the way it's been for at least a decade. Whatver your opinion is on this issue, it's good to start off with facts, not propaganda

GPearson
04-19-2006, 12:31 PM
Juro, i can't believe that you are comparing killing seals to raising animals for food! Why you blankety, blank, blank. Just kidding. I was killing myself laughing thinking about you reading this and thinking "not again, and from my buddy". I thought you wrote very clearly the most tree hugger, politically correct thing on the thread yet took the most heat. It is funny that people read into things what they want and then respond emotionally.

As for hunting seals or hunting in general...Ask yourself #1. Are the numbers of said animal high or above healthy pop? Have the biologist set limits and you are within these limits? Are the animals killed humanely as possible? If the answer is yes to all the above then what is the problem? Yes it is ugly to kill such cute critters but nature can be ugly (I couldn't kill a seal pup unless my life depended on it and that just might be the position that these folks are in). We don't control nature we are a part of it. What is unnatural is thinking we are disconnected from nature. Raising animals in inhumane and cramped fashion to eat is unnatural. I am a hunter and i try to eat more wild game then production food but i don't enjoy killing at all. It is not pleasant to take a life and then butcher the animal. I am a bit tired of people who buy neatly packaged animal products thinking that they have nothing to do with the death of an animal. The only difference is that they paid someone to do their dirty work. My hope is that some of the folks that don't hunt will figure this out before they listen to activist propaganda that think we should all live in a fantasy world where nothing bad or ugly ever happens to anyone or anything (except for rats and other ugly *@!*&$*).

Cheers,

Greg

juro
04-19-2006, 04:52 PM
Well said brotha!

Especially the point about the neatly packaged meat. I often find myself having to defend C&R fishing. Funny how the vast majority think of it as wrong compared to catch and kill.

My response is "some people will eat chicken, beef, fish and other meats their whole lives with absolutely no knowledge of the species while other people spend much of their lives understanding as much as they can about a species and choose not to kill it".

I usually win that debate, or at least find my counterpart stymied and they often change the subject. :smokin:

Hope we can hook up this year on the water Greg!

flydoc
04-19-2006, 07:18 PM
Greg-couldn't agree more! I was just thinking today (as I swerved slightly to avoid flattening a squirrel) how the "cute factor" plays so much into how we perceive a given animal species as pest/threat or no. Most people would have no hesitation putting rat poison or mouse traps down if these critters were infesting their domicile, but cute bunnies chewing up the lawn/garden results in an ethical crisis of "kill or not to kill"....I too am a hunter, and have had a few arguments (fortunately civil ones, so far) with tree hugger friends over the issue of hunting. They always seem less averse to the idea of my hunting birds (?tastes like chicken?) than Bambi's "adulterous deadbeat dad", or even coyotes. This despite the well-documented studies showing there are too many deer in many areas of the state to be supported by the local forage (and thus the increasing allotments for doe tags, in addition to the two buck tags we get with the license), and that the coyote population is literally exploding, resulting in increasing attacks on pets and (in some states at least) small children. I always ask them- if you had to die, would you prefer a quick death by gunshot, or a slow and tortured death from starvation/illness? That always seems to get them pondering...
Flydoc

chromedome
04-20-2006, 02:38 PM
A shame to see how effective misinformation is when used to further a political agenda. Despite what the campaigners would like you to believe, the seals are shot not clubbed, and that's the way it's been for at least a decade. Whatver your opinion is on this issue, it's good to start off with facts, not propaganda

Mainly, my facts come from the Humane Society of America. I don't see how you can call that a political agenda. And I doubt you'd find a more reputable reporter than the HS. Their site has recent footage showing the clubbing. One clubbing shows the seal being immobilized just enough so that the sealer can get a hook into it and drag it, squirming, off to be skinned. Where's your documentation to back up the so-called "facts" you claim to have?

OC
04-20-2006, 03:47 PM
Does anyone know when the words inhumane and humane became so prominent in our conscious mind as it is today? We now play with a humane strandard that indicates we have been inhumane from the time we could walk up right. I don't think the words inhumane or humane were used or thought about much, nor the concept in any language or culture untill recently.
Why so much now?

Manitou
04-20-2006, 06:10 PM
I live about a half hour from a person who hunts seals every spring and yesterday I asked him if they club or shot the seals

He answered this spring we shot them because the ice was not thick or big enough to approach the seals, the seals would just jump in the water. But almost all the time we club them when the ice conditions are alright.

So I don’t know where you got your facts about shooting them

Also the difference in the white babies and the one they kill now is about 2 to 4 weeks so then they are not white anymore but they are still babies.

Jocelin

chromedome
04-21-2006, 03:23 PM
I live about a half hour from a person who hunts seals every spring and yesterday I asked him if they club or shot the seals

He answered this spring we shot them because the ice was not thick or big enough to approach the seals, the seals would just jump in the water. But almost all the time we club them when the ice conditions are alright.

So I don’t know where you got your facts about shooting them

Also the difference in the white babies and the one they kill now is about 2 to 4 weeks so then they are not white anymore but they are still babies.

Jocelin

What you say sounds about right to me. They'll club 'em if they can. The Humane Society footage did talk about thinner ice conditions this year. And one more point is that their observers complained that when they went to the so called "Hunt regulators" to report infractions by the clubbers, they were ignored. This hardly makes me think there is close careful regulation of the hunt.

fredaevans
04-21-2006, 03:50 PM
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/faq_e.htm

Another (non-peta) view of the regulations.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/about_the_canadian_seal_hunt/index.html

Thought that has always occured to me is the import of seal fur is a no-no in the US; where do all these pelts go? That said, what about deer/elk/what-ever hunting. I'm sure there are more of these harvested each year .. just harder to get gorrie close up photos?

Rimouskois
04-21-2006, 04:12 PM
Harp seals are primarily clubbed with a hakapik in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and they are shot at the Front off northeastern Newfoundland. The large majority of harp seals are killed in the northeastern Newfoundland hunt. The choice of tool is dependent on ice conditions. Most seal skins are sold to Russia, China and Scandinavia and this year, the prices are very good sometimes more than $100 cdn per pelt.

Adrian
04-21-2006, 06:15 PM
I'm amazed this thread is still alive. I've kept out of it until now but its time to say.....

Bollocks!!!

You will not find that word in Miriam Webster but Jamie, Stevo and the other Anglo Saxons will know where I'm coming from.

Clubbing baby seals maybe offends our "human" sensibilities but I don't think people do it for fun. I grew up in an agricultrural community and witnessed the annual slaughter of chickens, geese, cows and pigs from the earliest age. I won't go into details but the "humane" killer hadn't been introduced in the late 1950's. There really wasn't anything to get offended about. You ate or you went hungry. Simple.

Mother Nature couldn't give a rat's ass for what I, Pamela Anderson or any other human 'thinks' or 'feels'. I also don't believe Mother Nature gives a tinkers elbow for first amendment rights, Magna Carta, Peta or ..you get my drift.
Fact is everything in the Universe eats everything else or dies. The Ebola virus eats living flesh and Black Holes consume entire galaxies. I don't see anyone standing up for the "rights" of the Ebola virus or campaigning against antibiotics. Who's to say you or I have more right to exist - other than you or I?

Like I said before, it's Bollocks.

Sorry for the rant. (No I'm not) :lildevl:

OC
04-21-2006, 07:33 PM
Adrian, it could not be said any better. I thank you. My thought on this as I drove to work this morning was. I wonder what that NE Newfie hunter thought the very first time someone mentioned his way of putting money/food on the table was inhumane? The poor guy must have got really confused. This is really a depressing thread on the state of our world. What was that Peggy Lee song," Let's keep dancing, break out the booze and have a ball. Is that all."

Now if they were clubing a talking horse called Mr Ed. Those others might have a complaint.
God bless you all.
Every one have a good weekend.

sean
04-21-2006, 08:16 PM
Adrian and OC , my thoughts exactly. Personally I think clubbing is a little more sporting :wink:

Honestly though if half the energy that gets put into this was put into the what is happening to actual human beings in Dufar, Rwanda, etc (insert many other african countries) we might be able to make some headway with our adminstrations who are more concered about oil...instead we are ranting about fawking seals....

-sean

Greg Pavlov
04-22-2006, 01:07 AM
Is silicone an endangered species? :chuckle:

I've always wondered if these people use leather belts/coats/shoes.

regards

A lot of them don't.

Greg Pavlov
04-22-2006, 01:13 AM
Hmm dragging a fish around with a hook for 10-20 minutes...clubbing a seal. :redface:

We are alpha predators. Most of us just choose to play with our food and let it go. I feel if you start splitting hairs it does nothing but lose yourself credibility. I try not to forget we are involved in a blood sport and giving these PETA types any reason to show we are questioning others methods is not the united front we should be putting up.

-sean

This, in a nutshell, is why it has become impossible for our society to effectively
deal with any significant issue: each faction in each debate feels obligated to
assume an extreme stance because any compromise or rational consideration
of alternatives or a middle ground is viewed as the start of a slippery slope.

Adrian
04-22-2006, 03:25 AM
Actually I'm not sure I want to live in a world of perfect compromise and harmony. I think it would make for a very dull life but that's just a personal opinon. If folks want to strive for that, that's o.k. too, so long as they don't insist that I go along with it. To me it goes against the natural order. To me, it's playing God and that's about as slippery as a slope can get.

The fact that there are polarized views creates the kinds of tension that lead to progress. Not always the kind of progress we would want personally but progress nevertheless.

Like Sean also pointed out, there are bigger issues in the world to deal with than an indigenous people going about their business. It's sad reflection on us as a species that a fluffy white seal pup can generate so much more angst and ire than the pitifull skeletons and swollen bellies of starving children dying from aids. Like it or not, we are part of the same natural order as those kids and the people that made them that way. Tolerance for that isn't the kind of compromise I'm prepared to accept.

GPearson
04-22-2006, 10:22 AM
That was a good rant Adrian. Eboli and black holes...well done mate.

Cheers!

Greg Pavlov
04-22-2006, 11:43 AM
Actually I'm not sure I want to live in a world of perfect compromise and harmony. I think it would make for a very dull life but that's just a personal opinon. If folks want to strive for that, that's o.k. too, so long as they don't insist that I go along with it. To me it goes against the natural order. To me, it's playing God and that's about as slippery as a slope can get.
The fact that there are polarized views creates the kinds of tension that lead to progress. Not always the kind of progress we would want personally but progress nevertheless.
I don't assume that a world of perfect compromise and harmony is either possible or ideal, but I do believe it to be true that our national debates are in stalemate because many, if note the majority, of the key participants array themselves on the basis of logistics & strategy rather than fundamental beliefs, morals, and/or logic.

Like Sean also pointed out, there are bigger issues in the world to deal with than an indigenous people going about their business. It's sad reflection on us as a species that a fluffy white seal pup can generate so much more angst and ire than the pitifull skeletons and swollen bellies of starving children dying from aids. Like it or not, we are part of the same natural order as those kids and the people that made them that way. Tolerance for that isn't the kind of compromise I'm prepared to accept.
I agree (my primary work for the past 15 years has revolved around AIDS research).

chromedome
04-23-2006, 11:43 AM
This, in a nutshell, is why it has become impossible for our society to effectively
deal with any significant issue: each faction in each debate feels obligated to
assume an extreme stance because any compromise or rational consideration
of alternatives or a middle ground is viewed as the start of a slippery slope.

What he said.

juro
04-24-2006, 09:28 AM
Exactly! I felt that when I pointed how how many abuses there are against many species of animals I could get no agreement from the fuzzy seal crowd who would take an extreme stand as if these other animals did not matter at all because the animals I pointed out were not cute and cuddly. Their hearts are (were) beating too.

TIC

silverleapers
04-24-2006, 10:33 AM
Here's the well know facts.

1) Millions of them (largest herd of mammals near their size in the world!)
2) Well regulated hunt with a stable or growing population (aerial survey of black animals on ICE!)
3) As environmentally friendly as it gets (unless you'd prefer we clear more land for farms and petrochemical factories and you think Native Americans had it all wrong for millenia and us white folkes are actually smarter!)
4) Killed fast and humane (wack wack, pow pow) either way its dead in a split second:Eyecrazy: get over it....
5) I've killed lots and lots and its not fun....lot of very hard work.
6) MOST juveniles are shot (and nearly all adults) because they can slip into the water as you approach (especially in the Gulf and during the in-shore small boat hunt) but not all - but who cares? Dead in seconds is dead. If we get lucky though we can hackapick a 100 of them with a club very quickly.....hmmmm no solid bones in the juvenile ones yet (white coats can't be touched thanks to the anti-kill anything, eco-urbanites, who don't have a clue about the rules of nature on this planet because they live in a overpopulated polluted bubble)...If I hit what is essentially grapefruit with what is essentially a bat....how much grey matter is left inside that is functioning?

So, are you a predator or do you want me to clear some more rainforest and tall grass prarie for your tofu and synthetics factories.

This whole argument is soooooo stupid....

I'd like to see us eat more of the meat though....what a waste!

Newfie Clubber :smokin:

Adrian
04-24-2006, 05:28 PM
Just a personal view but, maybe we should either

1) leave this one alone, or

2) stop fishing for fun

I promise to leave it alone and say no more except:

I fish for fun. I do not fish because I believe I'm saving the planet. I do care deeply about my environment and I have a problem with people who don't know "zip" about nature lecturing me and folks who live off the land what we can and can't do. Nature has a way of putting mankind back in 'his' box. Maybe Mother Nature has decided its a global bird flu pandemic this time around, rather than another Ice Age. Unfortunately for us She's indiscriminate. We fight her at every turn. Hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, tsunamis, global pandemics (and most of all ourselves). You name it, she's got it.

I love her passionately all the same. I still get a rush every time I feel that pulse at the end of the line. It's as strong now as it was 48 years ago when that first fish 12 inch eel decided to swallow the worm at the end of my handline.

Yup, I'm an alpha predator. Just like Sean said. I play with my food and choose to let it go. That's me. Can't help it. Bottom line is, it's what I do and if anyone finds it offensive, tough. I do not need to apologise for the fact that I fish. I do not need to apologise for the way I fish. I have no intention of doing so. I owe no-one any sense of guilt or shame - and neither should anyone else who fishes for 'fun'.

If you do, burn you rods and throw you reels into the trash compactor. Better still, sell them and give the money to charity. You'll feel a whole lot better:smokin:
Sorry, final rant ( I promise :) ).

See you on the water!

Eddie
04-24-2006, 06:03 PM
The seals are killed for bling. You can pick and parse values and traditons and the natural order of things etc., but really, comparing some rich bitch in a $60,000 coat to eating hamburgers is a stretch. I have no problem with wearing fur coats (hey, it's hard out there for a pimp:smokin: ), but no one NEEDS a fur coat. Some can argue about bean sprouts and Magli's (or is that Danner?), but let's not pretend that harvesting sustinance and dressing up P Diddy is the same thing.

Linking this to sporting issues is also a stretch. PETA has zero traction in the US and as long as we take kids out fishing and hunting (and then to Micky Dee's afterwards), PETA will never have any effect on policy in this country. Take your neighbor's kids out this summer. If we don't share the love...PETA will brain wash their little minds and teach the children to hate their parents and America:mad: Then we will have only ourselves to blaim:tsk_tsk: