Lets talk safety... [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Lets talk safety...


Smcdermott
03-15-2006, 07:11 PM
As the summer progressed last year I started venturing further and further offshore and came to the realization that the basic coast guard safety gear was not nearly enough. I started to assemble a ditch bag that I hope I never need but know I will glad to have if things go south. Below are the items I currently have in the bag and some new items I will be adding this season. What's in your ditch bag and what else do you do to make sure you are as safe as you can be out there?

Currently in the bag (ACR Rapid Ditch Express) :

Handheld VHF
Handheld GPS
Marine Flares
CDs for daytime signalling
Air Horn
Whistle
First Aid Kit
Bottled Water
Power Bars
Extra Batteries for VHF and GPS

On the way for this year:

ACR Aqufix PLB with built in GPS (This is a great unit as you can take it with you on other boats as it is registered to you not the boat)
ACR Firefly Plus Stroblight
ACR Firefly 2 Stroblight
Blunt Tip Safety Knife

I also have life jackets right next to the bag under the leaning post that can be grabbed within seconds if things are going bad in a hurry.

For myself I got Sospenders for those trips when I am out alone and plan on wearing the PLB in that instance.

What am I missing?

Sean

juro
03-15-2006, 08:24 PM
Sean, I definitely feel comfortable in your vessel bro.

Of course you have a first aid kit, but I have recently committed to keeping an up to date Epi-pen within easy reach from now on. I actually bought the two-pen set, one in the chest pack and the other in the first aid kit which is in the truck most of the time.

Smcdermott
03-15-2006, 08:33 PM
Juro,

I also just completed CPR training but there was no mention of using an Epi-Pen. What situation do you envision needing it in? Are there risks associated with it. I should mention I am also planning on getting a barrier device to keep on the boat for administering CPR safety breaths as well.

Sean

juro
03-15-2006, 08:46 PM
I could use a CPR refresher, I can't recall the recommended breaths / pulses per minute for each age group anymore.


An epi-pen injects antihistamines into the blood stream to halt an allergic reaction in just seconds. Pills take about 15 minutes, which is too long when air passages are constricted by histamine reaction. Food allergies, bee stings, even some fish spines cause allergic reactions. It's important to note that an epi-pen acts in seconds but does not last so either some pills need to follow it up or the fishing day should be ended on treatment so the histamine reaction can not recur while far from medical help.

Smcdermott
03-15-2006, 08:57 PM
This was my first course but I understand some of the thinking has changed. They no longer require that you check for a pulse but simply look for signs of response and open an airway and check for breathing. First thing for an adult is to dial 911 if alone or send someone if available. If there are no signs of breathing you give two rescue breaths and then begin CPR at a ratio of 15 compressions to 2 breaths. For a you perform 1 min of CPR before calling 911 if alone. The ratio is 5-1.

Sean

juro
03-15-2006, 09:07 PM
If there are no signs of breathing you give two rescue breaths and then begin CPR at a ratio of 15 compressions to 2 breaths. For a you perform 1 min of CPR before calling 911 if alone. The ratio is 5-1.

Sean

could you clarify that a little? I will make it a point to remember this time.

Smcdermott
03-15-2006, 09:32 PM
I think the key point missing there was for a child you perform 1 minute of CPR before dialing 911 if alone. Obviously if someone else is there you send them to the phone while you perform CPR. The thinking here is that if a child has stopped breathing they are in serious trouble as they have a strong respiratory system and if its stopped working they have been in trouble for longer period of time and need immediate help. The other point I guess I wasn't very clear on is how to check for breathing. That is a pretty basic concept. After the head tilt or jaw lift to clear the airway (this you really need to learn in person) you simply put your cheek near the mouth to feel for breaths while looking down the chest to look for chest rises. Coughing/heaving is breathing if there is noise and airflow. Coughing motion with no breath is probably a choking situation. Hope this was helpful but if you can a refresher course was recommended at least every other year.

Sean

FrenchCreek
03-15-2006, 10:08 PM
Sean, I don't know much about SW boating safety, but on my power boat and drift boat I carry 4 whistles, I use dog training whistles becuse they are loud and sharp sounding. When out on the water, everybody has one around their neck, it is unobtrusive but in case of a catatrophic accident when there is no time for the other gear, this is a minimum recommended by local DFW guys.

juro
03-15-2006, 10:22 PM
Yes, Sean -

Very clear explanation thanks. I recall the importance of getting EMT on site as well as the increased frequency of small ones but the minute if alone rule could mean a loved one laughs again - this topic can never be discussed in too detailed a manner.

Do they still advocate the use of the mask? My daughter was head lifeguard at a beach and carried one, when I took CPR last they urged the use of one.

Smcdermott
03-15-2006, 10:30 PM
Yes, Juro. They do encourage the use of a mask (barrier device). This is for your protection as there is the chance the victim will vomit during the breathing portion. My understanding is you can get a portable one for your keychain. It is basically a plastic sheet with a small one way vent.

Sean

juro
03-16-2006, 06:38 AM
Seans list is pretty thorough, I can't think of anything else to add.

I might add to always bring something "upstairs" before boating on unfamiliar waters - meaning review and memorize main headings, pre-assign waypoints if possible, burn in knowledge of reefs and have a general route sequence in mind.

Recently the guys on the ridiculous clave thought I was being a little anal when I insisted on 1 on land 3 on board among other precautions to ensure safety in such a remote area as Acklins but after a McGiver-like day of concocting solutions to hull leaks, electrical problems, fuel line problems; I mean one thing after another - others were echoing the same sentinents when we barely made it back to the dock on a shoe string. Actually, I think we used up all our shoestrings too.

So I would add to the that it's important to bring a plan and a sharp mental preparedness especially when boating new or remote waters.

OC
03-17-2006, 10:25 AM
Sean,

Your safety list is very complete, good job. I wish more people would put the time into it. A few things I would add. Become real familiar with how to use the MOB device on your GPS if you have that capability. Also when summer comes and the water gets warm enough practice MAN OVER BOARD drills every once in awhile they can be fun and it can save a life down the road. If you have never done that you find out how hard it is to get a person back in a boat in even choppy conditions. Learn how bring your bow up into the wind and steady it while trying to pick someone out of the water. Never leave your stern facing a rough sea as you may all end up in the water. Sport fishing boats are very easy to swamp from the stern.
Juro's idea of the epi-pen is right on be it a heart attack, bee string reaction or in our Pacific NW we have lots of Jelly fish that sting and can cause a reaction in some. As you venture further out towards the Gulf Stream you may find them there also and some barbs stuck to your flyline could cause problems for some. My wife who is a physcian put 4 of them in our med kit and every time I go in that thing for hangover relief medication I get nervous just looking at them.
Last always make a plan and let your loved ones know where you are going. If your plans change while at sea call someone and let them know. So many people leave plans with others then when they change them they never call and let them know the changes. They proceed to break down or get in trouble later the people they left the original plans with call the Coast Guard and they look where you originally said you would be and guess what you are miles away from that area drifting toward Greenland.
Best of luck with your deep water fly fishing this year.

Moonlight
03-17-2006, 11:25 AM
In addition to most of the list I also carry Survival suits, and flares and Smoke signals. Exposure could get you in an open skiff here in the NW even if you did not leave the Skiff just the rain and cold wind would be enough to finish you off.
People spend alot of money on flashy hardware but for my Money a Survival suit is Number One on a very short list.

juro
03-17-2006, 11:28 AM
That reminds me...

hypothermia protection is KEY

In the waters around OC's house (and my old home) a survival suit is essential for any adventurous fishing trips. The avg temps are 50's year round and you wouldn't last a half hour before hypothermia got you.

East coast waters are much warmer in summer but if you recall last year we had those upwellings that brought the shoreline temps to record lows, high 40's and low 50's in mid-summer.

Good common sense helps avoid risk of hypothermia but it wouldn't hurt to put a few of Penguin's self-heating packages on board and a space blanket. As they covered in CPR class the fastest way to recover core body temp is thru hot liquid ingestion.

Oh yeah and lots of spare batteries in sealed packages - I used my foodsaver to seal things for long term storage on my old boat.

(good topic Sean)

Smcdermott
03-17-2006, 12:03 PM
One thing I am surprised hasn't been mentioned is a life raft. I have been looking into them and it looks like you can get some pretty compact versions but they are pricey, running about $800+ from what I can tell. To me this seems like the best option for the northeast as the times when I would actually where a survival suit flyfishing are pretty few and far between and putting one on before heading to the water in case of fire or other situation doesn't seem reasonable. Throwing over a throw cushion size life raft able to be depolyed in the water does seem feasible. This also helps protect your passengers as buying a selection of different sized survival suits doesn't fit my budget either. The life raft will be on my list of next items to research and consider buying but not in this season's budget. With most of my runs within 10-15 miles of shore I am counting on quick response times with the GPS enabled PLB.

MOB drills, epi-pens and float plans are great adds. I will admit I have not been that consistent with the float plan even though I know how important they are. I think I have a form in my Power Squadron course book to make some copies of and leave with Patrice before each trip.

Sean

OC
03-17-2006, 01:22 PM
Sean,

If that is your boat in your picture I not sure you need a life raft. Even the small 4 man jobs weigh around 80 pounds I believe and 18" by 18 " space they take up would not be worth it. Though you can buy what they call coastal survival rafts for around the price you mentioned I'm not sure if they are certified or safe. Survival rafts believe me are very confusing shopping item. 1) They must be re certified every two years some every year at a cost of about 800 dollars. 2) Let's say if you get swamped in sport fishing boat from the stern you will go down very fast. If your boat is equipted with good floatation and you are in rough seas you roll very fast and chances are you will loose the raft. Unless the raft is in a hard case it most likely will sink then automatically deploy and drift away before you know what happened. That has happen to too many people who have had to use them. We are in the process of buying a 6 man life raft and they are very expensive, I bet i have put in fifty hours trying to figure out which one is best for us. But all I read about them and the few folks who have had to use them have found they are very hard to deploy in bad weather and on boats of 38 feet or more. Those who do get them open usually have hit a container or whale in nice weather.

Out your way I think you might be best to make sure when it gets nasty out to layer up your clothing put your life jackets on and start heading in. Survival suits are great out here in the Northwest or up off the Grand Banks. I wear one when I sail alone in winter plus a safety harness. Even at that if I fall over the side the harness will just keep me pinned to the side of the boat and I'm toast anyway. Guess it's just a good feeling and you hope you can find away back up on deck. Hopefully I have the self steering pointed somewhere towards land at the time I go over. At 15 miles off shore you are still very coastal and to enact your PLB sounds wise to me. Maybe a good eperb would be best. They run for about 800 dollars are small you keep it in your survival bag and they have been the greatest safty device invented in the last 20 years.

Smcdermott
03-17-2006, 01:34 PM
OC,

My understanding of the EPIRB vs. PLB is that the EPIRB has about 48 hrs of battery life vs. 24 for the PLB. I figure if I am in the drink for more than 24 hours I am probably toast. Plus the PLB is small enough to be worn on my belt while alone so if I go overboard unexpectedly it is with me and my auto-inflating SOSpenders. I looked for a auto PLB but my understanding is one doesn't exist and I can see why given the cost of false alarm coast guard calls. Thanks for all your input here. As a relative novice it is nice to have a voice of experience to bang these concepts off of.

Sean

OC
03-17-2006, 01:50 PM
Sean,

The PLB is a good choice now that they are 406MHz. You are right about the required 24 hour battery life. That should be enough time for the Coast Guard finds you before those Tuna you have been hooking find out the situation you are in and start the slow nibble of your body parts for sweet revenge.:devil:

We will have both eperb and a PLB for whoever is on watch at night. Safety gear now is at about 20K of hard earned money and God willing I will never have to use one dollar of it.

worstcaster
03-17-2006, 04:01 PM
Epi pens can be very useful for what they are made to treat, severe allergic reactions. Epinephrine is a very powerful stimulant causing bronchial dilation, vascular constriction, increased heart rate and blood pressure. DO NOT give it to someone having the signs and symptoms of a heart attack; it will make it worse. Signs of a severe allergic reaction include hives, swelling the upper airway, wheezing, a high heart rate, low blood pressure, difficulty breathing, and skin color changing from pink to pale to blue. Read the package insert and get operating instructions from your doctor.

As far as CPR classes go your local ambulance corp. or fire dept. should be able to point you in the direction of a class in your area.

OC
03-17-2006, 04:29 PM
Thanks worstcaster,

I'm glad I'm not the doctor in the family for the sake of all on board. Guess I'd better do my CPR and advanced first aid again.