backing to flyline ? [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: backing to flyline ?


andre
02-18-2006, 12:57 PM
I wanted to ask this on a couple of different forums here and Striper. Using 30# dacron should I expect any issue threading my flyline into the backing rather than using a knot? Not that I get much of a chance to see the knot rattle thru the guides. However, if I thread 3 or so inches wrap the end and zap the threads I would think would be as strong and any reasonable knot? it would also be a smooth transition from backing to flyline.

Sandman Caranx
02-18-2006, 02:06 PM
Man, so far, I use the double nail-knot to make a small loop in the end of the flyline, (I use a triple nail on the 12wt), and then a large loop(by useing a triple surgions knot- this is a strong loop if you use dacron) in the backing so that you can pass a line spool throug the loop, so when changing lines you win a lot of effort/time, this seems to work fine for me.

The other alternative is to simply slip a 50lb braided loop over the rear end of the fly line as you would do the tip. Use the same loop conection as mentiond above

*I use 10-14 lb mono for the nail-knots

*Remember, if you have a run into the backing, the rear-end loop in the flyline goes backwards throug the guides and that cause smooth exit, when reeling it is more prone to jam, but it is slower and controlled, and I cant recall a single instance that it did jam on me.

juro
02-18-2006, 02:10 PM
I like the big surgeon's loop thing as well because of the line swappability that our freind Sandman pointed out. However sometimes I wish I could make the fly line loop mondo too to pass the reel thru. Still working on that one.

Andre if you are going to try a splice how about doubling the backing in?

Sandman Caranx
02-18-2006, 02:34 PM
However sometimes I wish I could make the fly line loop mondo too to pass the reel thru. Still working on that one.



No problem man, just use a long piece of mono braid and make a loop, its as simple as as falling off a bicycle !!! :chuckle:

andre
02-18-2006, 04:04 PM
Juro, Carron line fits right into the 30#, I've used the large loop in the past. I'm not planning on changing lines on the reel, I have a problem with liking reels. SO my thinking is wouldn't that be smooth going thru the guides. This the same as slipping the large dacron loops on the front to the line only it is the backing. I don't see where I would loose any strength? SC I have done it similar to your is the past, I guess just looking for something a little different. Why because its cold.

fisshman26
02-18-2006, 08:52 PM
Try stripping some of the coating of your flyline and do a blind splice. The cores splice into each other, way stronger than just putting the line up inside the core and glueing.

juro
02-18-2006, 08:56 PM
Andre I had it backwards, thinking that you would pull the backing into the core of the flyline. It would make more sense to me since the blind splice typically binds core to core inside the coating and backing is very similar to core.

If it does not fill properly then you might consider doubling it.

lenny
02-19-2006, 10:01 AM
Another option would be to use a needle to thread the backing inside the line, being sure to go right up the middle, go about an inch. Then poke the needle through the side of the line, and pull the needle and backing out the side of the line. Use the tag end to form a nail knot over the pvc coating. The result is very smooth and strong. If you try to strip line away use clear PVC primer/cleaner (plumbing supply warehouse), it softens the coating in about five seconds and you'll be able to remove it with your thumbnail. I would incorporate some type of a nail knot into the splice. PVC solvent/cement works to make a good coating that bonds to the line coating and remains flexible.

GrantK
02-28-2006, 04:30 PM
No problem man, just use a long piece of mono braid and make a loop, its as simple as as falling off a bicycle !!! :chuckle:

It is simple. Follow the directions in the artcle Blanton has on his site. The article is entitled "Getting Looped" and it explains everything clearly enough that literally anyone can do it. I'd provide the link, but am not sure if that would be in violation of the rules. And if they'll hold sailfish and Marlin--and they do--they'll hold any salmon or steelhead ever born. Using the double hitch is very important, though. It's much stronger than the single hitch loop.

Another simple solution for getting a large loop through which lines and reels may be passed is to tie a Bimini Twist in the end of your backing with a large loop. You can use smaller braided mono loops on the line itself and then merely wind the line up and pass it through the larger loop in the backing. Doubling the loop with a surgeon's knot is common practice for saltwater, but is not necessary for most freshwater application. The other advantages of going this route are that the Bimini is a true 100 percent knot (unlike Surgeon's), and the resulting twists give you a little bit of a shock property in the whole set up. Lots of guys look at tying the Bimini as a daunting task. It should only take a couple hours to learn it--less if someone is helping you out who knows it--and it's really easy to tie in dacron as compared to other materials. Plus, everyone who fancies themselves an accomplished angler should know it anyway. I know of a fly shop--not anywhere near saltwater--where the only thing the owner used to ask prospective employees to do at the interview was tie a Bimini. Seperated the men and women from the boys and girls pretty quickly. :chuckle:

In terms of the original quesiton, I guess I just don't see the need to try and make the backing to line connection as smooth as possible. The issue is one of strength not stealth. Lots of conventional gear saltwater anglers put top shots of mono or fluorocarbon into hollow GSP, though. Essentially that's what is being described by putting the end of the running line into dacron. Might work. What makes a mono braid hold is the Chinese finger trap effect. When you stretch the weave too much on braided mono, by placing too large of diameter of line inside, it won't hold as well. My guess is that might be an issue with placing the running line inside the dacron as well. And, there is the question of how strong the dacron will hold even on a smaller diameter line. At the very least you'd want to insert way more than 3 inches of line into the backing. Even 12 inches might not give you much of a trap. Assuming you at least locked it on with a Nail Knot, you could end up with just the Nail Knot holding the works. Pretty precaruious. I don't think I'd trust a Carron to it.

One last point. The standard Zap-A-Gap formulas are merely gap filling cyanoacrylate (Super Glue). They don't remain flexible when they dry. As a result, their impact strength is very low (read near zero). What that means is the first time a knot treated with Zap-A-Gap impacts a guide on the way out, the bond could be broken (just pull hard after it dries and watch what happens as the bond cracks and breaks). If you're going to treat knots with adhesive, use something that remains flexible, e.g., Pliobond.

The thing about backing and freshwater applications, even with most anadromous fish, is that you're not going to see it much. The more important thing about backing in freshwater, however, is that when you do see it it's generally pretty important to you personally that nothing fails. Losing big fish sucks. Losing fly lines sucks more. As a result, it's probably not the best place in your fishing to experiment too much with the "I think it might work" ideas. At least that's how I feel about it anyway. To each his or her own, though.

BigDave
02-28-2006, 05:01 PM
I second the double-trap loop with braided mono for the flyline connection looped to a bimini in the dacron. The instructions on Blanton's site are clear and easy to follow.

Used this connection for SBFT and Albies last year. It is strong as hell and goes through the guides like buttah.

For light saltwater/heavy freshwater an Albright works just fine although it will bang through the guides.

GrantK
02-28-2006, 05:14 PM
I agree with the Albright recommendation too. One way to improve the Albright is to add the finish from the Bimini. Eliminates the danger of slippage on impact with guides. And since the knot is a little bulky, there will be some impact both coming and going.

There's very clear instructions in "Practical Fishing Knots" by Mark Sosin and Lefty Kreh on how to do it. Book is definitely worth its price, and I saw them on ebay the other day for less than $10.00 including shipping.