Matching flylines to rods [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Matching flylines to rods


FishHawk
01-12-2006, 07:36 AM
Seems to me that the biggest problem everyone has these days is getting the proper flyline for ones rod. Just scan the threads on the various boards and it' s a universal problem. I think it would be helpful if the rod designers told what line they uesd when designing their rod. I only saw one post to that effect on another board. Perhaps the designers are using tester who can cast far better than the average fisherman.
In my own case I built a Winston BIIX 9wt rod and put on my 10wt lines which work very well on my old Sage RPL+ rod. I was told by the local rep that Winston fine tunes their rods and I must use a 9wt line with this rod. He even offered to have me test cast my rod with a 9wt line by a large manufacture . So now I have to go out a get another line at $60 a pop. Very frustrating. Would like to hear of others with the same problem. FishHawk

BigDave
01-12-2006, 08:26 AM
If you call Sage they will tell you that even the fastest rods in their line are designed to take the matching (floating) line weight that the rod is designated for. This includes XP and Xi2 both of which are faster than the BIIx.

Seems like many northeast anglers are under the impression that they need to overline their rods which I don't understand. If you can shoot some line into your backcast and double-haul you should be able to generate plenty of line speed - especially if you are using an intermediate.

That said I'm sure the Winston would be fine with a 10wt line as long as you don't overdo it.

juro
01-12-2006, 08:37 AM
It can be frustrating certainly.

We can take a lesson from the Spey casters of the world and consider grains over length. Of course this is what line ratings are supposed to be standardized on, the AFTMA == grains over 30ft of line. Realistically that standard is too general to solve the problem you mention. To get a better idea of match you'd need to know grains / length for a rod.

Line companies can/will provide grain info upon request, Rio being a great example of having always done that. I think rod companies have pro staff on hand who have knowledge of the grains a rod likes for certain applications. I know I needed to know it inside out when I was a two-hand rod rep.

Keep in mind two things:

- the grain range differs over length of line, the longer the taper the more grains a rod can turn over

- the application defines the grains as well, for fast sinking short heads verses double taper floaters

Also asking in a forum like this for anecdotal information can be very valuable. In the end the way I choose is to cast the rod with various lines for myself. In my software solutions consulting days I was taught the "believe-ability scale" went from "experts say" to "we say" to "I say" in increasing order :)

Adrian
01-12-2006, 10:04 AM
As someone with more 9ft 9wt rods than any sane person should own I can relate to Bill's frustration. At the end of the day it comes down to trying things out as Juro says. Until the industry comes up with a new rating system based on grains/length we're stuck with trial and error. This is probably one extremely good reason to support your local tackle store, assuming they will let you try different lines one their demo rods until you find a combination that suits your particular style.

From my own experience I have an Orvis rod rated at 9wt that casts a 9wt intermediate line like a dream but doesn't load worth a dam with my regular 9wt floater. At the Danbury show last week-end I fell in love with the new Temple Fork TiCRX 8wt. I didn't fancy having to invest in a bunch of 8wt lines (I own an awefull lot of 9wts :roll: ) until Jake told me not to worry - that's a 9wt line on the rod - "it doesn't really load right with an 8". Apparently when Lefty was doing his design thing the 8wt came out as an "8.75" - go figure.

Of course, now I have no excuse not to go out and buy it:lildevl:

MarkS
01-12-2006, 10:33 AM
I'm with Juro on this one....

Even if the manufacturers tell you what line was used and who did the casting in designing the rod, that doesn't mean that that is the setup that will work best for you, as we all have different casting styles!

Case in point...I prefered that TiCRX with the 8wt line...but there are lots of other examples.

Reasons being, we all will use a different overhang, different acceleration patterns with the rod hand, and different haul techniques, not to mention differences in preference.

A potential solution to this is the "Common Cents System" touted by a Rodbuilding website, and RodMaker magazine...that lets you measure, at least to some degree, the power and action of your rod or rods.

So, if you know that your current favorite rod measures as 8.75, with an angle of 70* and cast best with a 9wt line, you can then look at rods that you are considering to see if they will behave as you like with a 9wt line....

There is a nice database of rods and blanks available online, though not all manufacturers are well represented.

I know I like faster rods for sinking lines and fishing the water, and softer tipped rods for sightcasting floating lines....

Mark

BigDave
01-12-2006, 10:53 AM
Wow that is some technical stuff.

I think at lot of it has to do with adapting your style to the gear you are using.

As they say: "the ski doesn't make the skiier".

jfbasser
01-12-2006, 10:54 AM
Adrian, I have an 8.75 weight line I can sell you at a good price....perfect for that rod:D

MarkS
01-12-2006, 10:56 AM
Hey Big Dave....you can adapt your style to match the gear, but there is also the opportunity to get gear that matches your style....:)

mark

FishHawk
01-12-2006, 11:57 AM
Great responses hope other chime in here. I agree with Adrian, the local flyshop is the place to go in helping sort out this problem. FishHawk

juro
01-12-2006, 11:57 AM
Adrian, I have an 8.75 weight line I can sell you at a good price....perfect for that rod:D

Bluefish get your 9 wt? ;)

Eddie
01-12-2006, 12:13 PM
I suspect that you might even like an nine weight line on your old RPL+. Take up the rep on his offer to cast his lines. He has hopefully figured out which lines cast best on his rods.

FredA
01-12-2006, 12:33 PM
I tend to agree with Big Dave. I have never paid too much attention to lines, always buying from the same vendor (Cortland) and dealing with it. Seems it's common for us in the NE salt to bounce between, say, an intermediate or floating line and QD type line. This certainly requires a significant adjustment to your casting "stroke" within the range of your normal fishing. Lines of the same type from different vendors, I guess, require less but some adjustment. I believe the same can be said for rods, given the rods are within some personal preference range. Once you adjust and adapt all is well with life.

After always using 440SL intermediates I bought a Wulff intermediate this past summer. I was ready to chuck the wulff after its first use. Before I did I took it out in the backyard and in five minutes I was thinking this ain't so bad.

If it feels good, do it. If it don't, try it again, it might be like scotch.

Dble Haul
01-12-2006, 01:54 PM
I tend to agree with Big Dave. I have never paid too much attention to lines, always buying from the same vendor (Cortland) and dealing with it. Seems it's common for us in the NE salt to bounce between, say, an intermediate or floating line and QD type line. This certainly requires a significant adjustment to your casting "stroke" within the range of your normal fishing. Lines of the same type from different vendors, I guess, require less but some adjustment. I believe the same can be said for rods, given the rods are within some personal preference range. Once you adjust and adapt all is well with life.


Lump me in with Big Dave and Fred on this one. While I try to match the best possible line to my rods (for my casting style), I'd like to think that I'm flexible enough to adapt when needed.

jfbasser
01-12-2006, 04:59 PM
Hey Big Dave....you can adapt your style to match the gear, but there is also the opportunity to get gear that matches your style....:)

mark


I tried that last year and ended the season with an 11 foot Lami and a Daiwa Embem Pro 5000...oops:chuckle: Well back to Flyfishing:tsk_tsk:

Slinger
01-13-2006, 06:51 AM
The line and rod manufacturers have gone so far off course with thier specs that you can`t trust anything anymore. What it comes down to is who can tell the bigger lie. "This 9 wt rod sure has lots of backbone", sure thats because it`s probably a 10 or an 11! "Our new 10 wt line shoots like a cannon", yeah right, check the grain wt, turns out to be a 12 wt! Like everything else in this country, the biggest liars get the biggest share of the suckers! Check out 4 lines from the same company, all marked as 9 or 10 wts and you`ll find a 250 gr difference between them! Quality Control at it`s finest!

This is the year Basser takes the big jump, he will definitly be the source to find out where the biggest clam worms or freshest pogies are to be found! I have survilence photos of him pouring lead for sinkers!
Slinger

jfbasser
01-13-2006, 07:51 AM
But Slinger, I have modernized the lead sinker! I cure it with UV light now:devil:

GrantK
01-13-2006, 10:20 AM
I'm new to the board and only really came across this site while researching for line matches for a two-handed overhead rod (T&T 1212-3). Seems like you guys have more information on that here than anywhere else online.

In terms of matching lines to rods, it is a major issue sometimes. And, as others have pointed out, it's too bad rod makers don't provide information related to grain load at various head lengths, e.g., short, medium, long, and that all line makers don't follow Rio's lead and make grain weight as well as taper design information readily available. You can get it from most line makers, but sometimes itís not really as easy as it should be.

The AFTMA designations are pretty limited in terms of what they're really telling us. With one-handers they pretty much give you a starting point. With two-handers they're not worth the time it took to print them on the rod in a lot of cases (hopefully the newer guidelines will prove different). But AFTMA numbers are, in a sense, analogous to the "Idiot's Guide to..." in terms of simplifying the process, and there are enough anglers who prefer simple to exact that I doubt they're ever going to be completely replaced. I can see where the additional grain/length information would really confuse some people to the point of frustration, but I don't see why that information along with a simpler one number designation can't be provided by rod makers. Of course, even with that information differences in personal style and preference will still require tweaking for each of us.

Personally I appreciate the K.I.S.S. philosophy and apply it in most of my fishing, e.g., fly selection and construction, but because rod/line marriages really impact how effectively you can do certain things so much, I don't agree that it's the best approach with making line selections. Sure, a good caster can adapt to anything, and I'm sure Lefty could probably throw a 5 wt. trout taper to the backing with a 10 wt. rod, but why would he want to? In a day and age when there is so much technology available to us why would anyone want to settle for anything less than exactly right? I know I donít want to.

Anyway, great board. Hope I didn't step on any toes just jumping in like that. Still researching the archives here, and really am impressed by the amount of good information.

gimmefish
02-09-2006, 02:21 PM
I recently bought a G-Loomis GLX8 weight for bones and permit. I have yet to buy a reel, and am looking that the Ross canyon BG 4 or 5. I am looking at the Scientific Anglers master saltwater taper fly line.

Two local shops, and a few friends have told me that "everyone overlines this rod."

Of course, I wouldn't feel bad disregarding the "conventional wisdom" if I had strong feelings either way, but I couldn't notice a huge difference between the two lines. I am no pro caster, and although I can cast a decent distance, I am rather new to saltwater flyfishing.

However, I want to make sure I invest the money in the right gear now, even if I won't be able to appreciate the benefits until a later day. I don't want to have to go out and buy another fly line at a later day, and in some sense it also affects my reel choice, so its an issue I could use some help with.

Is it really true that everyone overlines the GLX 8 weight with a 9 wieght line? Should I go ahead and trust this advice even though I can't really see the difference now?

BigDave
02-09-2006, 02:57 PM
Gimmiefish,

One thing you will want to consider if you are fishing for spooky flats species: splashdown is going to be amplified with the heavier line. It's also going to be easier to pick up a lot of line and put the fly back in front of the fish with a lighter line. Both important factors on the flats.

Maybe look at the Wulff Bermuda Triangle which has a more aggressive taper than the SciAnglers line and will load the rod more easily.

Whiskey Dick
02-09-2006, 03:36 PM
gimmefish, I have the GLX 9'6" 4 piece 8wt and a couple of the GLX 10' 2 piece 8wt rods and have never had to over line them. the 4 piece rod is my favorite travel rod and the one i take to Belize and the Bahamas. I use Rio Saltwater lines(the florida bonefish line 8wt) and have never had to overline this rod. The 2 piece rods i use for Salmon and Steelhead and again do not need to over line them. I think Loomis has these rods rated spot on. I also use the Ross Big Game #4 reels on these rods, A good match, tight lines brian

gimmefish
02-10-2006, 02:35 PM
Its good to hear some other perspectives out there. It seems funny to me that a manufacturer would make a rod that was meant to be overlined. I wanted an 8 weight, not a 9 wieght, if I wanted the 9 weight, I would have bought one!

The last question is my reel choice for my cross current GLX 8 weght: Ross BG 4 or 5? I would like to get the BG5, since I could use it with a 10 wieght for juvy tarpon, and big stripers. But is the BG5 too much reel (weight/bulk) for just an 8 weight?

Thanks you guys!

Whiskey Dick
02-13-2006, 01:20 AM
The last question is my reel choice for my cross current GLX 8 weght: Ross BG 4 or 5? I would like to get the BG5, since I could use it with a 10 wieght for juvy tarpon, and big stripers. But is the BG5 too much reel (weight/bulk) for just an 8 weight?

Thanks you guys!
No the BG5 will work fine on your 8wt,
BG4 diameter=3.76" weight 7.3oz spool width 1.05"
BG5 diameter=4.00" weight 8.0oz spool width 1.05"

burk
02-19-2006, 08:53 AM
As a Cortland Rep I find this discussion very interesting. A couple of points. The reason many rods feel better with "overlinning" is that they were desighned to throw QD's and Teany lines which can be much "heavier" when picked up impropperly. A 9 wt. fast sink head with an 8" bucktail adds signifcant grain weights. That is why some appearently "fast" rods will "fold" with a sinking line. Another point, rods behave differently with a DT. I have taken to overlining some more moderate trout rods with a DT one size up like the Winston WT and Diamondback Bambo and I am very satisfied with the results. They seem to handle in close better, and can really shoot when called upon. Has anyone tried the Cortland precision in "half sizes"? These were desighned for some of the problem rods that everyone seems to own at least one of. I haven't thrown any yet and would love to hear some feedback. And JFBasser, I can't help you with that 8.75, but will a 8.5 do?:D

cuttbow
02-22-2006, 09:01 PM
Great thread I just asked a sage rep at the big flyfishing show about which line to put on my xp for a nymph/indicator rig and he said that this rod performs best with a heavy line such as the rio grande or the sa mastery gpx both rated a half size up in weight.