Other forms of momentum [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Other forms of momentum

11-12-2001, 07:33 AM
I have seen multiple sailing rigs for yaks which to me are not practical due to the need to use an outrigger or sponsons.

As a kid, I had a huge kite collection which has me thinking about using a stunt/ fighting kite as a sail. Very maneuverable and can point well into the wind.

Any one try anything like this?


11-12-2001, 08:27 AM
Roop- The idae should work for using thew kite to propel the yak but it would increase the amount of gear in or near the water when you are trying to land a fish or even trying to cast if you're fishing from the yak. This is one reason why I am leaning towards outfitting my canoe with a pair of oars- they're simple and if the oars have the lock stoppers on you only have to let them go and they stay with the boat and in place. They also help with the drift by dragging in the water usually to the stern. Also with the canoe if the fish goes the other way you can turn around rather than turning the boat, its saved a few fish for me. Just some thoughts. ron

11-12-2001, 09:39 AM
Roop, have you seen Kite Boarding?

All I picture is you attached to the kite flying away, doing flips and rolls, then making a sweet landing 500 yds away. I like the idea to get to the fish, but not while actually fishing obviously. We'll have to investigate this theory this spring, or maybe wait till summer due to the possibiltiy of a swim.


11-12-2001, 11:20 AM
Who said anything about fishing?

Of course, you could use a handline, 50# leade, troll thru a school of blues & drown whatever you hook!!

11-12-2001, 04:22 PM
I'm about 99% sure of going yak next season. I don't plan to fish from it though. Of course if a blitz erupts around me I'll be casting... but I am thinking I'd rather be on my feet.

This being the case, would I be better off with a sit-on-top model? How hard is it to get in and out of a yak in waist-deep water if I over-indulge the striper-filled flood tide?

Anyone think of a easy on/off stabilizer design to make it stand-up stable when you want it to be? I mean like pvc pipes with closed cell flotation that slide over receiver tubes pointing perpendicular to the hull, stored on clips on the yak until you want to secure them to the hull and stand up. Hmm... I think I just did. ;-)

How about setting up a bridgework for two or more yaks to join together into a modular fishing platform?

11-12-2001, 05:50 PM
juro (11-12-2001 05:22 p.m.):
Anyone think of a easy on/off stabilizer design to make it stand-up stable when you want it to be? I mean like pvc pipes with closed cell flotation that slide over receiver tubes pointing perpendicular to the hull, stored on clips on the yak until you want to secure them to the hull and stand up. Hmm... I think I just did. ;-)

How about setting up a bridgework for two or more yaks to join together into a modular fishing platform?

Juro, Mark and I came up with similar designs for stability and we even thought about designing a fishing platform with our 2 yaks. With all of the yaks that Forum members will have next year we should brainstorm on these ideas!


11-12-2001, 05:52 PM
Another thought!

I think that the 3 members of the Doogue clan are going to update their decidedly dangerous whitewater yaks to newer and more stable yaks. We should all band together and perhaps we can get a deal from a store if we buy 4 or 5 kayaks at the same time.

Any interest out there for a package deal? If we find a dealer in NH then I could even transport some of the yaks and deliver them to any participants. That would save $$$ on sales tax. Live Free or Die...


11-12-2001, 08:03 PM
Check out the attached for joining boats, platforms, sails, etc...


11-12-2001, 09:03 PM
I saw this kayak (http://www.kiwikayak.com/stealth.htm) in the new SWFF magazine. They even had their boat fitted with a motor for long haul, all day trips. It might be worth a look for extended Monomoy treks.

11-13-2001, 07:01 AM
You know my feelings on the SOT yaks, much easier to deal with getting in and out in a non-beached situation. Only down side is the lack of deck space for keeping a map like Striblue has.
On the topic of stability, Roop and I were discussing hydraulic scissor legs that extended from the bow and stern lifting the boat out of the water and giving a nice sightfishing position ;-). Just like carrying a step ladder around...


11-13-2001, 03:24 PM
kayak snobbery aside... the stealth just aint one!!! it is a cool little boat, but it is a big stretch to call it a yak. SOT's are just inherently less stable, due to the fact they have you above the water line as opposed to a sit in(and wetter). they also usually weigh more and are a bit slower, but not significantly. all I can say is (as Powers, and many others told me... PUNGO,PUNGO,PUNGO...). I didn't just take their word, but after alot of hard work and test driving many, it won hands down. maybe we should have a yak test drive clave before you guys buy yours. I'd be willing to bring mine to the spot you choose. Tom D
p.s. just my $.02 you need to choose what is best for you, some people say they outgrow the pungo when they yak for 5+ years... funny thing is, they all say they have kept the pungo to fish from...hmmmm

11-13-2001, 04:22 PM
I hear ya, PUNGO PUNGO but could you help me with the WHY WHY... Is it faster? lighter? cheaper?

What was your criteria, I really am in the hunt and this is helpful info.

My criteria will include (in order of importance):

[#] Getting in when the tide has risen to waist depth
[#] Safety / stability
[#] Price
[#] Ease of handling by myself even when the tide has gone out
[#] Speed in current, wind, chop, etc.
[#] Dry storage on board

11-13-2001, 06:44 PM

In my opinion, if getting into the kayak in waist deep water is really the most important of the criteria that you listed above, then I think that you can rule out many, many kayaks. It is very tough to get into a yak in waist deep water if the yak is not either a sit on top or a yak with a huge cockpit (i.e. Pungo). Even then it is no small feat - especially in waders. Granted, you could devise a stabilizer system with PVC pipes and such. However, the Zen master in me is drawn to a simpler approach. With regards to the sit on tops: I do not like the idea. Remember when I was on Monomoy with you in July - even in the 80 degree + noon hour heat I was shivering. Sure, the exposure of your core body mass to a much larger mass of heat sinking, moving water is a recipe for core body temperature loss. Given. But on a drizzly dawn in September you will be in for a cold and bitterly miserable trip if you go out for an extended paddle in the rain. You could wear rain gear (kayaking and waders do not mix if you ask me) and get by but then again the yak experience is getting more complicated. Life is getting more complicated. You will be going nuts when I paddle off on a rainy day (in my yak with a nice neoprene spray skirt) and call you with tales of 40 inch cows jumping into my stripping basket! All with you on shore swearing at your wet and wild sit on top. Wait, you would probably be scoring your own 40 inch fish so maybe you would just be laughing at me for having to paddle so far in order to accomplish the feat...ignore this possibility.

So, in my opinion, forego the sit on top for the reasons cited above. You need a boat with a big cockpit and the Pungo is the place to start. The dimensions on the cockpit on the Pungo (L=55.5" and W=19") are far larger than the Manteo (L=29.75" and W=17"). Test drive the Pungo and see what you think. If you need to get into it in waist deep water then get out the PVC!

Just my thoughts - from a guy who has tried to get into his whitewater kayak (very, very small cockpit) in 2 feet of water with good chop and struggled miserably.


11-13-2001, 07:59 PM
I haven't found getting into a kayak in 2-3 feet of water especially difficult. The definition of annoying is using your bilge pump to drain the cockpit before paddling away, though. If you enter a kayak anywhere other than shore you'll be depositing a decent amount of water into it from your shoes/sandals, wet shorts, waves, etc.....Do this many times over the course of the day and you'll be surprised at how much water might accumulate.

Also, if you are wading with no exposed bar to use as a landing point you'll have to either anchor the kayak or tether it to yourself. Anchoring is no big deal other than the fact that you have to transport the anchor itself. Tethering is something that I have done with mine, but, any current takes your boat for a ride. You may find both your yak and your drifting fly line gravitating towards each other. Also, with a fish on you'll be dancing around your tethered yak if Murphy's Law holds true.

I'd say wade mostly dropping tides with the yak and save the rising ones for yak tripping to facilitate remote bar fishing.

Also, the multi-chine hull of the Pungo and it's monstrous cockpit opening are what make it so desirable(plus the price). It's relatively short length coupled with it's 29.5" width are a recipe for stability as well. You aren't going to win any races with this yak but you will track awfully straight.

I'm actually intrigued by the new sit inside Ocean Kayak models. All of their other models are of the sit on top variety. Has anyone paddled one yet?


11-13-2001, 08:14 PM
There I wuzzz...Standing in water deep enough to easily reach the inseam of my waders...rod stowed in the attached rod holder up in front of the "massive" cockpit...poised with my right hand on the far rail...my butt against the left side of the obliging craft and my left hand straight back on the left rail...ready, set...
After a rather unimpressive semi-vertical heave-ho and I'm now sitting sideways in the cockpit...a 90 rotation to my right and my feet are in too...the crowd roars...
But, despite my good intentions and side mount completed, the shore bound Bulgarian bait-slinging judge can only see fit to give me a 4.5 for style and 3.7 for difficulty...No matter!! because getting in and out is no big deal in the Pungo...(dry bag stuffed behind the seat and paddle teathered just in case...)
If you want a test drive, let me know...it's waiting for you at AreaSixtyOne!

11-14-2001, 08:26 AM
Doogue I know a guy who sells Cobra kayaks at a good discount you can find them on the internet to check them out.He also sells accessories at a good discount.Let me know and I will get ahold of him for you.

11-14-2001, 08:28 AM
Here is the link http://www.cobrakayaks.com/

11-14-2001, 10:19 AM
A kite, Hmmmmm let me know how that works out for you. Maybe the weed wacker with a plastic prop on it. Has anyone seen This (http://www.totallygross.com/) If I mounted a prop on it I'd get a swamp boat effect and frozen Marguritas for all after the trip :) .
I really like the pungo but if I were a thinner angler and was not going to fish out of the boat the Manteo is looking real good. Sometimes I wish the cockpit on the pungo was a bit shorter in a chop, if you put the skirt on you're all set but that's a pain. The larger opening has advantages though, getting in and out for one, accessing the drybag, being able to move your legs around. For the surf I've got to think the SOT would be king as long as you've got your equipment tied down but the large opening in the pungo does allow the mandatory quick exit after surfing in. I've actually gotten back into the pungo in water over my head, not fun, not pretty but here's how it goes. When I first got the yak I practiced in a lake and decided I should see what would happen if I dumped in deep water. Getting out was not a problem and I only got about an inch or two of water in the boat, I should also mention I was not wearing waders. After wrestling with the yak for about 10 minutes I almost went for the paddle float method but I did find a way to get back in without it and without filling the boat with H2O. Not easy, Not pretty but it works.

Get behind the boat and push down on the stern.
Get you chest on the stern and grab the back of the cockpit behind the seat.
Shimmy up onto the yak using the gunwales as hand holds and remain parallel to the boat.
Once your centered over the seat straddle the boat and drop in.

I think the advice many give on selecting a fly rod applies to selecting a boat. Try as many as you can and in the conditions your likely to use it.

11-14-2001, 02:08 PM
Now I know what I can use my weed wacker for!!

11-14-2001, 04:32 PM
JimW brings up the most important point, try as many as you can.... especially in windy choppy water. many are wonderful on a calm day and out and out suck in the real world of saltwater fishing. the walden scout in a wonderful pond/calm stream yak.... but lookout in the wind! striblue is a big advocate of the tribalance. the eddyline sandpiper was a beauty... but at $920.00 without any deck rigging and a cupholder that pushed into my crotch, no thanks! the big opening in the pungo is a great stripping basket, the spray skirt is an unconventional one... you mount it on the yak(normal ones you put on like a skirt,thus the name) it has a velcro closure. it is not as watertight as the traditional ones, but more versital because you can put it on, open it, and when the weather sours velcro up. Tom D

11-14-2001, 06:16 PM
Joev - thanks for the offer on the Cobra yaks. Throughout the winter I am going to drool over yaks and in the spring I will test a few and then make a purchase. I will evaluate the Cobra yaks in the Spring and then I might give you a call.

Thanks again,


11-14-2001, 09:13 PM
One of the benefits of the Tri-balance for me is that you can sit up out of the cockpit. That is ,sit up on the edge back of the cockpit with your feet inside the cockpit.. Good for moving around and also paddling.. Also, I will cast from this position and If I have to move to another spot I will just drop down into the cockpit to paddle. On very calm days I can pretty much stay seated on th lip.

11-15-2001, 10:18 AM
Juro, also don't forget, as you get into yaking, you'll enjoy being in it more(I do) . and you can frequently get right into a school if they aren't spooky. so casting is in the 20-30 ft range... fun to have all the birds close in too. Tom D