my grand spey line [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: my grand spey line


snoryder
10-31-2005, 10:50 AM
Hey guys I got an amazing deal on the grand spey line 8/9 wt. I had a tough time with it, just struggling to get a cast. My rod is to weak for it. 14 GL3, I plan on buying a new rod in the future but my conditions are, I want it to be light. Now going with a light rod, does that mean it won't be as beefy as a heavier rod. I want my next rod to throw the 2 lines I currently own, windcutter 7-8-9 and grand spey. Is this possible.

The only thing I liked about the grand spey is that I didn't have to strip line, if I casted far enough and with the windcutter, although I think is enough line for where I fish, I sometimes try to let it out, but then I would have to strip line back into the belly. I hate stripping line in.

sean
10-31-2005, 10:58 AM
Is this the new grandspey line or the older one? The newer ones have the grain weight marked on the package. I think it should be 800 grains for the 8/9.

By light rod do you mean light in hands or rating?

You should be able to find a rod that will cast both lines. Will be more of a tip cast with the windcutter as compared to when you line up the grandspey. You will defintely want a progressive type rod. Meiser makes great sticks and if you called him up he could dial one in for you. I have been impressed by the wide grain window his highlander series have. The 14 or 15 8/9 would be an excellent choice.

Another rod that will do it is the snowbee 14 9/10 (really an 8/9). One of my favorite sticks and will throw deep into the blank or off the tip. It will cast both of those lines.

I would defintely reccomend getting a rod at the very least 14' long. 15 would be better if you are going to be fishing with the whole head out of the guides.

-sean

snoryder
10-31-2005, 02:32 PM
I don't know if its the old or new, it says 1100 grain. I don't even know the head length. It doesn't say it on the box. Its weird cause on the back of the box, it shows, windcutter, midspey and then accelerator. So I don't know if its the accelerator I have but on the side of the box there is a sticker thats says grandsapey 8/9.

Thanks for the recommendations.

Whiskey Dick
10-31-2005, 08:56 PM
snoryder, At 1100 grains it is the old 8/9 Grand Spey, I use my old 8/9 GS on my 15' 10/11 Loomis GLX which it fits very nicely. the old GS has a lot of grains :)

mike beliveau
10-31-2005, 09:19 PM
I would like more information on the Meiser and Snowbee spay Rods. Do they have A web page . Is there anybody on the east coast that sell those spay rods. Thank YOU for any help you could provide

sean
10-31-2005, 09:23 PM
I will tell you only if you call them spey rods :)

For tons of info check out the speypages.com. There is a link on the top of the page and both rods have a lot of discussion about them. Both fine rods.

I think there are a couple shops around the cattaragus area that sell two handers. You could probably arrange to test drive a few.

-sean

sean
10-31-2005, 09:28 PM
If that is the old grandspey at 1100 grains I think you could break that rod in half if you got the whole head out of the guides. Both of those lines are too different in grain weights to really work on the same rod. Hard to say without weighing the belly though to see what version of the grandspey you have.

-sean

flytyer
10-31-2005, 10:15 PM
snoryder,

My old GrandSpey 8/9, which is what you have, weighs 1100grs. This is lot of grains to be casting on anything smaller than a 10/11 rod. I used mine on a T&T 1510-3 and can also cast it with my T&T 1611 without the rod being underloaded. You're liable to break your 8/9 GL3 using it. This is probably why you got a good deal on it since the GrandSpey was changed last fall and the old, heavy one discontinued. The old 8/9 one you have is OK for use with 2-hand rods rated for 10/11 lines; but heavens it is awfully heavy on an 8/9.

The new GrandSpey 8/9 weighs 800 gr and is a very nice line that can be used on the majority of 8/9 2-hand rods without danger of severely overloading (and possibly breaking) the rod.

snoryder
10-31-2005, 10:25 PM
Yup thats what I figured, Anyone need a new line? I don't think I'm ever going to buy or use a 10 wt around here. Damn, that just bites!

Thanks for the replies guys.

snoryder
10-31-2005, 10:29 PM
Also guys, when I'm looking for a long belly line for my GL3, what grain weight should I be looking for. I can't go by the numbers since thats what messed me up in the first place.

tx

flytyer
11-01-2005, 03:07 PM
Between 760 and 840 should be good.

Whiskey Dick
11-01-2005, 03:19 PM
Also guys, when I'm looking for a long belly line for my GL3, what grain weight should I be looking for. I can't go by the numbers since thats what messed me up in the first place.

tx


snoryder, Rio recomends the 7/8 Grand Spey and the 8/9 Grand spey for the GL3 - 14' # 8/9, the 7/8 for the better casters,this from there web site "Each rod has been rated for two different line designations. The A rating is for casters who like to feel a faster action rod, and those that are good spey casters. The B rating is for beginner and moderate casters and those that like to feel the rod with more flex. " good luck :)

peter-s-c
11-01-2005, 04:01 PM
Be careful of that rating as Simon Gawesworth recently admitted on another board that the original GrandSpey was built on the assumption that only the first 60' would be used by the typical angler. His ratings are based on that assumption. So if you cast only 60' of the head then you're OK, but if you use only that, you might as well be using a DT line.

peter-s-c
11-01-2005, 04:02 PM
Also guys, when I'm looking for a long belly line for my GL3, what grain weight should I be looking for. I can't go by the numbers since thats what messed me up in the first place.

tx

Where do you plan to use your long belly?

flytyer
11-01-2005, 05:43 PM
Peter,

The new and redesigned GrandSpeys that were put on the market last fall conform to the spey line standards adopted last September and as such weigh a lot less than the old or original ones. Therefore, the A & B line recommendations on the RIO web site for the GrandSpey lines are accurate and based upon the new GS.

The new GS 8/9 weighs 800 grs. and the new 7/8 GS weighs 700 grs. These are much different weights than the original ones while still having the great turnover the original ones exhibited. In contrast, the old ones weighed in at 1100 grs. for the 8/9 and 900 grs for the 7/8.

In other words, the new GS lines work properly regardless the amount of belly being cast for the A & B line ratings of Simon. Or another way of putting it, if you like to feel more of a load on the rod, use a new GS matched to your rod by the top number of the line designation, and if you like a faster rod with a crisper feel, use the next size down GS line number. I.e. a person who wants a more loaded 14' GL3 8/9 would use the new 8/9 GS, one who wants a faster, crisper casting feel would use the new 7/8 GS on it.

snoryder
11-01-2005, 06:17 PM
Hey Peter, I realized after casting my windcutter a couple of weeks ago at the Catt. I don't like stripping line in finding the belly at the tip then cast. My hands were wet, and now my fingers are all dry because of that. I just want to pick up line that I have out and fire it out. Thats why the long belly, I will probably never cast the whole belly but atleast I won't be stripping. Maybe the midspey might be good for me, but there is only a 10 ft difference between the two.

Thats my rational, I don't know if it makes sense, since you know I've only got 1 1/2 seasons under my belt.

And to answer your question, I plan to fish the Catt mostly and if I ever get out to it the Grand.

peter-s-c
11-01-2005, 06:37 PM
Peter,

The new and redesigned GrandSpeys that were put on the market last fall conform to the spey line standards adopted last September and as such weigh a lot less than the old or original ones. Therefore, the A & B line recommendations on the RIO web site for the GrandSpey lines are accurate and based upon the new GS.


While I haven't compared new ratings to old on the Rio website (I didn't keep a copy of the old one) I suspect they'll rate out the same as the old as it was based on casting 60' of it. I do recall the old GS ratings for my rods and looking at the new recommendations they haven't changed much, if at all. So an old GrandSpey and a new GrandSpey may very well have the identical rating for a given rod on the Rio site, given that the old GS recommendations was based on casting only 60' of line. A rating I suspected and commented on when working on the Casting Weight stuff as it was the only way the GS would produce a reasonable casting weight that matched the recommendations.

peter-s-c
11-01-2005, 07:03 PM
And to answer your question, I plan to fish the Catt mostly and if I ever get out to it the Grand.

In that case a long-belly would be just about the worst line to buy as they are designed to be cast with most of the head out of the guides (except for the old GS) and you'll never approach that on the Catt. You'll be stuck with casting mostly just the front taper which will usually end up being too light with crappy turnover. Ironically, if you marked your GrandSpey at 60' and didn't hang any more than that from the tiptop, it'll do the job. The rest of it though would be so much wasted space on the reel.

To avoid stripping on the Catt and the Grand you have a number of choices:

Airflo Delta Long -- Ideal for at 66' of head it'll cover almost 100' without stripping using a 15' leader and the head out of the guides. It has the power to turn over Polyleaders without the need to cut it back. The Delta Long multi-tip is an even better investment. Upside, great "fishing" line, probably the best of the mid-bellies, and a five year warranty -- downside, sometimes you have to use the warranty.

Rio MidSpey -- Very nice, smooth casting line but not quite as nice as the Delta Long when casting short and doesn't have quite the turnover of the DL. Works very nicely with most/all of the head out of the guides -- better dry fly line vs. the DL. Again, buy the multi-tip if you can afford it. Upside, very nice casting line -- downside, don't hang a Polyleader on the end of it and expect it to cast a bushy fly into the wind, especially when casting short.

SA or Orvis Salmon Double Taper -- DTs are very smooth casting lines and perform very well on rods like yours with up to 70' of line out of the guides. Can be bought cheap (Orvis is/was on sale and cheap ones can be had on Ebay or from the UK). Your rod would need a DT-10-F. Upside, smooth casting, cheap, predictable -- downside, don't shoot, handle wind or big flies like the WF speys.

That said, I wouldn't use any of these lines on much of the Catt though they'd be fine on the Grand. For the pocket water areas of the Catt, nothing beats a Skagit rig. It means stripping line some of the time but it will also catch plenty of fish.

A Skagit rig can be approximated by hanging some T-14 off of the front loop of a DL or MS multi-tip but it is a compromise.

flytyer
11-01-2005, 07:45 PM
Peter,

I emphatically disagree with you that long-belly lines are designed to be used with most of the belly out the rod. I use long-belly lines almost exclusively and have found it easy to cast well with only part of the long-belly head out. I regularly fish from 50' to over 100' with the same rod and long-belly line with both floating and sinking tips and experience zero turnover problems.

The only rod I have that I use a mid-belly line on is a 13' GLX 8/9 because 1) I only use this rod on smaller rivers (those averaging 60' or less across; and 2) I need to wear out the only mid-belly line I own. After this mid-belly is worn out, I will be using a long-belly line on this rod too.

peter-s-c
11-01-2005, 08:34 PM
Russ

You haven't seen the Catt or the fishing problems it presents. A 50' cast is often too much plus you have to toss a lot of weight to get the fly to the fish in the middle of boulders, chutes and pockets. It's a classic Skagit stream for much of its length. Using a long belly on this creek on these sections would be an exercise in frustration.

I'm well aware that on typical swing water, a long belly will handle a broad range of casting distances but there's no way you can make an unmodified long belly line like an XLT for example, work short on this sort of pocket water.

I short cut my explanation about usable casting distances of long beliied lines as for on many GL tribs, it simply isn't relevant. My statement is accurate as far as these streams are concerned. On the Grand, it's a different story and I said as much. There's room to work there and excessive weight plus a vertical, Skagit-like presentation isn't needed.

snoryder
11-01-2005, 10:41 PM
Thanks again Peter for your recommendations, I will look for a Delta long. Is it ok if I ask you before I buy, so I don't make the same mistake like I did with the GS. I'll most likely buy from Ebay, since there are deals to be found.

peter-s-c
11-02-2005, 07:27 AM
Sure, email me anytime.

About your GrandSpey, it is a very usable line provided you don't try and cast too much of it on your rod. It should work pretty well with up to 60' beyond the guides.

One thing I forgot about the MidSpey multi-tip -- it has a second set of loops that join the front taper to the belly. Most of the time this set of loops are just a PITA but for the Catt, it does give you the option of removing the front taper and adding T-14, standard tips, or Airflo Custom Cut tips right off the belly, for working the pocket water. When you get back to the good swing water, you just re-connect the front taper and away you go.

To clarify what I said earlier about long-bellied lines being designed to cast most of the head -- I still consider that an accurate statement, however that doesn't mean they can't be used shorter as Russ has pointed out. I did not intend to imply that they can't cast over medium distances just as well. They will definitely cast over a range of distances -- but they are optimized for long distances. To get the real nice long distance performance, the front tapers are usually quite long and fine (the old GS excepted). That characteristic works against you in a pocket water context.

snoryder
11-02-2005, 08:35 AM
Peter, would this be the one to get?

http://www.cabelas.com/information/FlyFishing/AirfloSpeyFlyLine50029939/AirfloTwoHandMulti-TipSpeyFlyLine0029939316101a.html

peter-s-c
11-02-2005, 07:17 PM
There are two Deltas, the regular and the Long. The regular is green and the Long is white. I can't tell from this ad which one it is though I suspect it's the green regular Delta which is the same length as your Windcutter.