: Atlantis and wind
05-25-2005, 10:38 AM
This is sort of a bump-up on the earlier wind discussion. After reading more than I could stand about the Atlantis last summer, I picked one up in September....and then promptly also bought the all-arounder 9/10 and started selling off a couple of my single handers! Yeah, I'm a complete convert.
But...I'm still definitely learning on these, and so here's my question. What's the best approach with a 2 hander when you have a sideshore wind on your casting shoulder? I admit I've been cheating often and doing the turn-around, sometimes just singlehanded...:tsk_tsk: ....which is unsatisfying and clearly not the best way to go with a 2H.
So, is it best to angle the rod and just cast off of your other shoulder? Tried this for the first time this week, and found it awkward, but could see the potential, so I'll stick with it if this is the right way to go. Anyway, all advice appreciated. and thanks Juro and others for a really useful website.
Kewl! The new lines from Airflo and Rio kick things up a notch as well.
With a cross-wind you can either reach across or go left-hand up. This is the same for spey casting as overhead 2hand.
with a little practice you will be bombing good casts
make the backcast smooth, horizontal and straight 180 from target
reach back a little in-line with the cast at the end of the backcast but don't let the rod tip drop (don't raise the bottom hand)
coming forward, pull the butt forward a bit at first then make a strong final *abrupt* snap locking the arms in a slightly upward position to send the line sharply forward
my top hand (right hand) is held back-handed to target for the cross-body cast
I like to practice left-up whenever possible, it really teaches the mind a thing or two about getting it right on strong side and cross-body (also called reverse) casts.
we'll put the reverse cast into a video clip and post it
05-25-2005, 12:44 PM
I spoke with Simon G. at Rio on Monday about the new Rio Outbounder lines. Simon stated you has some pre-release lines for testing. Please give us your impressions on the 12wt (510gr) and 11wt(475gr) lines for the 11wt and 9/10wt Atlantis rods.
My understanding is the new Rio lines are 38ft heads in type F, I, T3, T6 and T8. Presently ready for release June 6, 2006 and will be made initially in 6wt - 12wt with 13 & 14 wt in the future.
I have given up on AirFlo lines for the Atlantis, we have been promised "next week" from Tim since last November and they are still N.A., I will go with the Rio lines for my CND 11ft rods.
Not sure what the mix-up is but Sean Ransom had one at last weekend's opener and I was very impressed with it for the Surf-tamer, in fact it was amazing. I wouldn't' give up just yet, you just might have a change of heart when you try it.
However I can't say enough about the new Rio lines... I have tested the 10wt Int on the 9/10 Atlantis and LOVE it. In fact from the second cast on I was tight to fish so I never did make it back to the truck to get the other line to try on the Surf-Tamer (11wt and 12wt fast-sinking Outbound). The 10wt outbound is a great match for the All-arounder, although I might like the 9wt even better when I get to try it based on my general preference for a lighter line I can drive crisply using loop dynamics rather than weight.
The 11wt Intermediate was not available for testing yet but I think that's the one that is going to rock on the Surf-tamer. I have an 11wt sinker that is next on the testing block.
The 12wt was a touch heavy casting in a field but good for big flies or those who like a more positive load from grains rather than loop tension. I prefer the latter. The 12wts are not too heavy for the Surftamer but what I mean to say is that the 11wt might be crisper and ligher yet still assertive to cast.
I also tried the 12wt fast sink and that line has a definite role in the arsenal... fast rips and huge flies beyond the imagination are lofted like feathers to the backing knot, it's definitely fly fishing at a higher level.
Again, I really think the 11wt (judged relative to the 12wt) is going to be the ticket but let's not jump to conclusions until we try them first hand.
These new lines are really a revolutionary (or at least evolutionary) advance, not just hype. It's a significant improvement when a short head can be cast well over 100ft without losing it's shape, and these lines are just what the two-handed angler needed to rule the beach with a fly.
It's an exciting time for two-handed overhead fishing in the evolution of fly gear, no doubt about that thanks to our sponsors and innovators at Airflo and Rio.
It's not an easy thing to bring new products like these to market and I know we are used to big company response times but if I might offer some advice a little patience will go a long way here as both companies are about to deliver on a long-awaited need - lines that absolutely ROCK on the two-handed overhead rod made to suit the beach angler.
05-25-2005, 06:38 PM
I had mine in hand and used them at the clave last saturday. These lines are available now.
The airflo lines are defintely available from your local shop. Very nice lines. You can cast the whole 150' blindfolded. Seems your shop is the problem. Call site sponsor kaufmanns and they can get you one in a matter of days.
As for wind I cast left hand up but for a newbie the reverse cast is probably easier.
05-25-2005, 09:28 PM
hey Alan, try both approaches and see what works for you. In traditional spey casting its common to do both - either reverse (cross-body) or switched grip casting. For me it depends on the specific cast.
Two-handed overhead casting is new to me, so I was practicing last night, in preparation for our trip. I found it easier to maintain the proper rod angle in overhead casting by switching the grip - left hand up. Using the reversed (cross-body) cast with right hand up, it was more difficult to load the rod belgian style (elliptically) on the backcast, and also harder to maintain the rod angled outward on the forward cast. I'm gonna practice a little more, left hand up...
see you in June!
I agree with Juro on the RIO lines. At the Sandy Clave (Oregon), the RIO lines seemed a tad heavy for their rating. Just a heads-up for those dropping ducats - if possible, try before you buy to get the correct match.
05-25-2005, 09:34 PM
FYI -- I just received a RIO prototype of the Outbound, a 12 weight intermediate head and floating running line. The listed grain weight is 595 for the head, not 510. After I cast it, I'll try to report results.
05-26-2005, 09:13 AM
Thanks for all the info. on line weights and your experiences. I will call Rio again and confirm if they had some changes between prototypes & testing lines vs. the production ready for release June 6, 2005.
05-26-2005, 01:04 PM
Having talked again to Rio folks, I think you've actually got the right numbers for the production line and I've got a heavier prototype. But we'll all soon see ....
05-31-2005, 08:36 PM
I checked in with Bears den fly shop today to see if these lines had arrived yet,the answer being no got me thinking about the post by Sean stating they were availible at Kaufmans,I mentioned this to Steve at bears den ,he calls Rajeffs sports to inquire as to the where abouts of the lines ,the answer he recieved was they have shipped sinking 9's and only sinking 9's the intermediate lines have not been shipped to their location yet and the lines that were availible at Kaufmans were the shorter head prototypes,Airflo has yet to reship any of the longer headed lines out yet.But they are expected any day now :Eyecrazy:
06-01-2005, 09:38 PM
I quized Zack at Rio and received the following data on Outbound lines
The heads are measured at 37.5ft
5wt = 210
6wt = 240
7wt = 275
8wt = 330
9wt = 375
10wt = 425
11wt = 465
12wt = 510
13wt = 555
14wt = 600
Floating, Intermediate, T3, T6, and Type 8 densities
Hmm I must have got lucky because my intermediate airflo beach line is the right length and weight. Defintely not a prototype as those were really short. Wierd.
06-02-2005, 06:24 AM
And ... as to the production Outbound lines, Simon G. recommends the 13 wt. (at 550 grs.) for the Atlantis. That 13 wt. may actually be lighter than some of the 12 wt. prototypes some have tried.