"What would Jesus Drive" campain. [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: "What would Jesus Drive" campain.


OC
05-23-2005, 10:35 AM
An interesting article on the internet this morning on "creation Care" which is a new movement begining to take place in the Evengelical world. It it asserts that Christians are stewards of Gods creations. There is strong oppostition to it in the truely conservative Evengelical section including the Bush administration and the very conservative US senators like Inhoff of Oklahoma. But I think it's a positive step and hope the movement gains ground.

A couple months ago while visiting my daughters ranch in Wyoming I got to see some of this new movevement first hand. Many very conservative ranchers who are very born again were fed up with where land rights issues had gone. They once believed that they had every right to do as they pleased with their land. But watching other land owners subdivide ranches into disasters and watching the Oil and Gas companies come on to their property and render the land useless to cattle ranching by putting up hundreds of gas wells that pollute with poison gas and polluted water tables they have had enough. Small grass root groups are popping up all through the conservative high desert rocky mountain west and those joining such groups are not left wing liberals but those that just a few years ago would have voiced the opinion that "God gave me the right to do what ever I want with my property."

Maybe there will be light at the end of the tunnel in the environmental movement yet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/79114881
Sorry this address does not work anymore but was in the msnbc US news section for 5/23/05.
The link for the Evangelical Environmental Network is:
www.creationcare.org/magazine/
The mission statement link at the top of the page is interesting.

Eddie
05-23-2005, 02:37 PM
"Maybe there will be light at the end of the tunnel in the environmental movement yet."
that "light" would be a train :eek:

DEERHAAWK
05-24-2005, 12:28 AM
We were to all "See" our role in the Stewardship of the Gift that was given to us, there would be NO need for the banter, the back and forth, the finger pointing, the one handed "My Way or the Highway" attitude. Meanwhile that which was given to us to "Steward" suffers.
So simple, yet most refuses to understand.

Moose
05-24-2005, 08:53 PM
Although I support the general principle of Holy Stewardship, two things come to mind. First, Christ gave but one commandment to us during his time on earth, to "Love one another as I have loved you". If we were all to follow this most basic principle of love, everything else would fall into place, including the loving care of our planet (you would no sooner crap in your neighbors yard as your own). Second, Man has dwelled on this planet for somewhere between 3,000 and 10,000 years, depending on which side of the evolution argument you stand on, and we all surely agree that the planet is a lot older than that. Mans recent rush to rape and pillage the earth has gone on for a couple of hundred years, and in the long run mother earth will shake our race off of her like a bad case of fleas (if God doesn't do it first!) Our degradation of this beautiful place serves only to poison ourselves, the planet will survive. We need to focus on the long term care and loving concern for the liveliehood of the individual and do away with the corporate greed that pervades this world. It is the single biggest threat to person and planet. We as a nation (and world) are not worthy of our complaining so long as we live in apathy to the ways of the world. Focusing on the ways of God rather than the pursuits of man will put an end to all our problems.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17

JusBones
05-27-2005, 09:15 AM
I suspect Jesus would drive a 15 passanger van. Given 12 apostles, Mary, and mary Magdelan, a few fish and loaves of bread and a jug or 2 of wine, it would be the perfect vehicle.

OC
05-27-2005, 10:07 AM
I suspect your right JusBones. But as much as things change some do not. After all back in the 60's and early 70's, Jesus was driving a VW Bus hand painted with peace signs and flowers all-a-round. His passengers back then were still the same group, the fish wasn't frozen and flown in from Chile. The wine back in those days not so good, even had a screw cap. And back then no one was debating if one of the Mary's was his secrete old lady.

flyjkol
05-27-2005, 12:12 PM
I think Jesus would drive a nice pair of sandles :hihi:

Eddie
05-27-2005, 05:05 PM
Since he was a carpenter, he would drive a pick up or a van. Probably used.
Max pollution/gas consumption.
He would try to make up for it in other ways. Maybe turn his thermostat down a little and wear a sweater around the house. He would probably ride his bike to temple, or take the bus.
He wouldn't care what his buddies drive or pass judgement (not his job he figures).

Moose
05-27-2005, 07:34 PM
For the record, I believe it was published that he drove a donkey. But it did have leather and 4 wheel (or hoof) drive ;)

Willie Gunn
05-28-2005, 03:32 AM
He would probably borrow the old man's car.
Which begs the question? What does god drive?

Eddie
05-28-2005, 08:29 AM
a Chevy....

SSPey
05-28-2005, 02:01 PM
Man has dwelled on this planet for somewhere between 3,000 and 10,000 years, ..

Homo sapiens sapiens has been around for about 200,000 years, other Homo spp. nearly 2 million years. For those interested in how humans came to harness the resources around them, and eventually dominate planet, the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond is very good reading.

Eddie
05-28-2005, 02:43 PM
for those that would like a good read on how humans came to be ( befor they domminated the world) I recomend "Getting Here" by W W. Howells. It was written a few years ago, so there are some small details that have been since rethought (a few new monkeys have been found), but it is very readable and gives a good sense of things.
Things like how extra bones in the jaw evolved to become parts of the ear.

Moose
05-28-2005, 09:25 PM
Homo sapiens sapiens has been around for about 200,000 years, other Homo spp. nearly 2 million years. For those interested in how humans came to harness the resources around them, and eventually dominate planet, the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond is very good reading.


The oldest documented human civilization was near the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers about 10,000 years ago. Going beyond that brings us into the realm of the "Man or monkey" arguments and right back to the debate over creation or evolution. Jumping from 10,000 years to 200,000 years without archaeological proof is too much of a jump to be believed.

Of course there's the just as provable "aliens transplanted on Earth" theory :roll:

Eddie
05-28-2005, 10:23 PM
I think that we can agree right now that there is nothing anyone can post here that will convince anyone to change their mind on the creation/evolution debate. Let's not try.

Tom Tero
05-31-2005, 05:46 PM
............... I recomend "Getting Here" by W W. Howells.

Any relation?

BTW, how was the Island?

Eddie
05-31-2005, 06:31 PM
Yeah, I'm pimping my grandfather's book. But it IS a good read. I'll loan you a copy if you are interested.
X-mas was an amazing place. I will tell you all about it when I see you next.
Sorry you won't be coming to the BBQ. I just got back form the Cape. It was cold, lots of little fish and a couple of better ones (7-8#s).

natrix
06-01-2005, 06:52 PM
Isnt it wonderfull how inturpretation is a matter of perspective.

Natrix

OC
06-01-2005, 07:56 PM
I will look for that book, sounds interesting.

I am not a christian sort of person, I must say I have no trust in the christian right. But I'm happy to see that there are reasonable people who are evengelical. We do not hear much about them, I have read that about 70% evengelicals are somewhat moderate in their views and it's the press on both the right and left who speak often of that other 30%, the far far right. It would be great if christian organizations of moderation spoke up in defense of the environment, I don't expect that 30% to ever do so. We need the evengelicals help that's for sure the way things have been going over the last 20 years on environmental issues.

nmbrowncom
06-03-2005, 08:20 AM
talk about an inappropriate thread. WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? since when does religeous/political propaganda which is unrelated to fishing have a place here? talk about a scam to polute.

Moonlight
06-03-2005, 11:07 AM
Back off a bit, if you knew the thread starter you would be (I'm sure) a bit less critical! Actually the whole thing is about polloution you got that part part right.

OC
06-03-2005, 11:11 AM
Mr Brown,

I have always found you to be an interesting fisherman. Be it fishing with you or reading your rare comments on this site. If you look closely you may observe that this section of Flytalk is on the environment. Certainly you must agree that the environment is important to the health of our fishing. As Moderator of this section it is my job to moderate and to add useful and interesting information to it. What ever your reasons to believe this is a "scam to polute" you are entilted too and your welcomed here. But I will say in rebutal I started this thread because it is a rare occurence when we get some positive news on the environmental front and I believe that we all need some good news once in a great while. This environmental friendly group of envengelicals is a welcome change from what we hear on a daily basis in the environmental movement. Politics and religion are not a good mix the way I see it but it is here to stay in our country for awhile anyway. If these friendly evengelicals want to get their flock, who don't do a whole lot of thinking about the environment more aware of all of our responsibilities to the environment by posing the question "What would Jesus drive" then I'm all for it.

nmbrowncom
06-03-2005, 03:56 PM
moonlight, you're right. i was a bit too harsh. OC what you said in your last post makes a lot of sense. i didn't mean to suggest that environmentally concientious groups should not be discussed and acknowledged. that said,the discussions on creationism and the quoting of scripture just seems over the top- smacks of procelatising and bible thumping. but of far more importance OC, what do you mean by "interesting"?

OC
06-03-2005, 04:57 PM
Mr Brown,

I'm glad you are seeing things more clearly. Did you read any of editorials on that second website I posted at the begining. These folks are truely making in roads for the environment with some of the most conservative anti- enviros going. We enviro's on the left of things could never accomplish as much with the creeps in the house and senate . Please all of you read their stuff it's pretty good and if I was a Christian man who loathed the environment I would have to take note of what this group is saying or else be stricken down by the bolt! And i hope for all those fly fishermen out there that are conservative and religious at the same time that you would join such a group because I'll say it again we need all the help possible.

As for the interesting part Mr Brown, I enjoyed taking you steelhead fishing last year and showing you what we love to do out here in the NW. I also enjoyed our conversations about our rivers,forrests and fish. I think you most likely understand from your interesting conversation and questions why we in the PNW fight hard to protect what little we have left.

Hope you have a great summer fishing Hingham Harba.

Please everyone read that site I posted at the begining. I smell falling rain, one drizzel at a time. :smokin:

nmbrowncom
06-03-2005, 06:53 PM
OC btw, isn't the big day for you on the cape comming up soon? you ought to move it up. the striper fishing has been great. while i'm sure you have your time more than accounted for, the invite for boston harbor fishing (speaking of great environmental successes) on my boat is still there.

DEERHAAWK
06-04-2005, 01:28 AM
OC,
As a Naydiv ov the Grate State of Tax-ah-chussetts, I mus ax u to pronounce souitin geografical aireas by dare carect names, excetera!

It is Hingam Haba

Tank u :hihi: :chuckle: :whoa:

nmbrowncom
06-04-2005, 06:08 AM
you betcha bub

OC
06-05-2005, 02:00 PM
Deerhawk,

You must be from Westen part of the state. In the easten part to properly say harba you must have that r in there so as to extend the word to it's proper length. Now if your from Southie or old Dorchesta and your dad worked the union docks then yes it's haba, but only if your dad was union, the word Haba or Harba is one of those words that distinguises a persan. Remember there are at least 26 different languages in Eastern Mass alone. You ever hear them speak down in Bridgewata? Or how about the 13 different ways in the surrounding towns of New Bedford. And then again there are the upper middle class towns which are even different from the wealthy old money towns like Choasett. It's all just wicked fun to go back in talk with other red soxs fans from anywhere in New Englend.

Moose
06-05-2005, 08:53 PM
... discussions on creationism and the quoting of scripture just seems over the top- smacks of procelatising and bible thumping.


Funny, a short quip about loving and caring for each other is over the top and bible thumping. How sad, Mr Brown.

I heard no protest from you over the suggestions of the evolution theory. Why only an outcry over one side of the argument rather than the discussion as a whole?

DEERHAAWK
06-05-2005, 11:02 PM
OC
U ar rite, I mus admit itsbeenawhile sins I spent n e time downdareon the soutside in Quinc, Waymuth, or even Ducksbree fah that mata. And I unastan the suttle difrences batween naybahoods in those aireas.
But then eyem jus a Wosta boy and I had trouble with Awebin, Jefasin, and the Quineepoxit rivia sistm! :chuckle: :Eyecrazy: :hihi:

youah frend
Deahox

Pee-sss, I'm lookinforwid to re-aquaintin mysef wit the New Inklan airea this folll. Im goin ta fish Ass-In-A-Commet pawnd! :eek:

nmbrowncom
06-06-2005, 05:27 AM
moose,the quoting of scripture and invoking of jesus and god in support your point of view is NOT debate nor fair commentary. it is demoguery . i.e. those who diagree with you disagree with god. the topic was supposed to be the environment as i am told. i'm sure there are web sites where it is appropriate to praise god or jesus or mohammed or budha for that matter. but to twist the topic from a discussion on the environment into an opportunity to preach, while typical behavior, is not appropriate on this web site in my view.

Moose
06-06-2005, 07:51 AM
Actually mr Brown the only thing I find typical here is the running theme of "No God, don't talk about God, eventhough we're talking about God". You speak of it as if it were filth or deabauchery, something wholly inappropriate to discuss in a public gentlemans forum. What on earth are you afraid of? I reread my post and it surely does not ring of preaching or bible thumping. A very simple observation in a discussion of Jesus that someone else started, simply stating how God so loved the world.....etc.. The point is that if anyone really followed the teaching of Christ they'd surely know that focus would be solely on the individuals relationship with God and true love and caring for one another (totally lacking in todays world) and that everything else would then fall into place. The idea that a christian would concentrate efforts elsewhere; driving low emmision cars; saving the spotted owl; a vegetarian diet or whatever reeks of a lack of understanding of Jesus' desire for the world (the original discussion, remember) and is truly misguided. I make this comment not as an anti environment opinion but an opinion on the pretense of the idea. Not an opportunity to preach, but to give an opinion.

When you saw the word "Jesus" in the original thread heading you should have left it alone for it surely seems to offend you. Why would you walk into a discussion on the subject and then protest a persons speaking on that very subject? Very poor form, sir.

OC
06-06-2005, 08:22 AM
Guys I have to go down to centeral Oregon for a couple of days so don't let this get into a religious war. The thread is about how Evengelical Christians can help in the saving of the environment.

nmbrowncom
06-06-2005, 04:34 PM
moose, notwithstanding your unchristian like comments, it is apparant that you firmly believe that if anyone knows the true desire and meaning of jesus and the teachings proscribed to him, it must be you... like i said, pure unadultrated DEMOGOGUERY. now lets get back to the topic which appears to be how and why the evangelical "christians" do not as a rule support a clean environment, and in fact stand with the polluters and their protectors.you don't think that politics or money may have something to do with it, do you. how can we show these misguided people the error of their ways? OC, have a wonderful trip, and may the force be with you.

Moose
06-06-2005, 05:53 PM
Well mr Brown, you'll get what you want, no further comments from me regarding this subject beyond this post. Not because I think you have put me in my place or won any kind of argument, but because I now take you to be a fool and won't waste any more time on you beyond stating this: You have said nothing. You have criticized and made personal attacks and generalized without forming a single constructive opinion, comment or position. Your comments are childish and go nowhere. I do not say this because you do not agree with me, I welcome any friendly discussion or argument from any well thought out, well spoken position. I had no problem with anything anyone else here had to say, but you, sir, are crude and a waste of space on this board.

Eddie
06-06-2005, 06:15 PM
"it is demoguery . i.e. those who diagree with you disagree with god. "

Brown, science could be called a religion, and it's supporters could be accused of "demogogery". Science is a belief system as well. I think that we shouldn't take it for granted that everyone is in agreement here.

"The point is that if anyone really followed the teaching of Christ they'd surely know that focus would be solely on the individuals relationship with God and true love and caring for one another (totally lacking in todays world) and that everything else would then fall into place."

Moose, unfortunately, too often we have seen that this is not how many interperate Christ's teachings. If only some people could focus "soley" on their relationship with god, instead of trying to get everyone else mixed up in it.

I hope that people can be respectful when discussing this tinder box issue.

This notion of "What would Jesus drive?" is kind of a joke to introduce the idea that some people are taking a biblical interpretation when it comes to conservation. I don't think that anyone is seriously considering what Jesus would drive, what tv shows he would watch, or who he would vote for.

" ...a public gentlemans forum."

Th

nmbrowncom
06-06-2005, 08:39 PM
moose, i'm disappointed. your comments become less christian each time.what happened to all that love. that said i agree with eddie. conservation IS the issue. now, as the self appointed spokesman for god and jesus, please enlighten the rest of us as to why these few evangelicals which were noted by OC are so out of the main stream christian movement and what can the rest of us do to convert them to reality?

Eddie
06-06-2005, 09:38 PM
someone please lock this thread down

Sandi
06-07-2005, 02:07 AM
This thread is locked.