: Diver heads
01-23-2005, 06:59 AM
Has anyone tied patterns that can wobble and dive on a swing like the backdrifting plugs. Some of the deerhair head patterns can dive when actively stripped, but I haven't been able to create that tantalizing wobble with a streamer on a swung fly.
01-23-2005, 08:17 AM
you can easily make a fly wobble by putting a small plastic lip on the bottom ala rapala. a mustad hook box has the right plastic. cut it to a fine taper tie that in at the head and shape a small lip about 5mm long. any longer and they will eventualy spin. this has worked on a clouser minnow for bass and was quite easy to do.
Morning Nick, :)
I was just going to post "I think Black Francis has done something like that" :cool:
I just remember'ed that tip you gave me in regards to river smallie / pike fishing.
Wouldn't mind tying some to play with..................maybe you could post a picture ?
01-23-2005, 11:22 AM
I was afraid of that. I'd rather do it without plastic. It would be nice to try to duplicate the irresistable wobble or noise that Hot-n-Tots have, only with swing techniques. Steelhead can't seem to let them alone.
01-23-2005, 12:44 PM
Your could try to cut a deer hair head slightly concave or flat and then stiffin the head with epoxy or hard head. just a thought if you get it to work you could also add a glass rattle in the fly as well to add some noise. hmmmmm this sounds like fun
01-23-2005, 06:48 PM
I read somewhere that the old Rogue patterns tied on a double hook with relatively stiff upright wings were designed to do just that-- wobble on the swing. The intent was for the guides to backtroll while their clients held onto the fly rod...there was no casting involved.
01-23-2005, 09:53 PM
Why not try to tie a Dahlberg Diver type fly, but instead of having the stiff collar on top, put a small, stiff collar/lip on the bottom. You would have to use a long shank hook so as not to interfere with the hook gap. My $0.02
01-24-2005, 06:46 AM
I'll give it a try and report with pics. Hopefully the rivers will thaw so I can test the patterns in something other than my jacuzzi. My second trout wife didn't care for the rattlesnake I left on the bench.
02-01-2005, 01:23 AM
There is a product made by Marc Pettitjean that makes any fly wobble.
For wobble, I use a muddler head with a trailing tail (rabbit, marabou, etc) pulled down with a sinktip. A pulled muddler head wobbles real nice, casts well, and catches a lot of fish.
Example is my bunny rat and matuka rat, which are included in the Holy Grail steelhead article in Chronicles section. However any muddler head on a tip will provide more than enough erratic action when held at less than current speed.
Marc Pettijean's plastic scoops are cool, I bought two sizes for use in saltwater for certain flats applications I have in mind. I know they would work for salmon and steelhead however with spey rods (line control), riffle hitches, wakers and bombers, muddlers, etc - there are many options for imparting proven and deadly actions into the fly on a river and if I try them it will be out of curiosity rather than necessity. They are like the old shakespeare plastic scoops on small jigs but are flexible and symmetric, and materials are tied right up to the collar. I have to say the action says 'eat me'.
For saltwater, I am much more devisive and mechanically open to contraptions and the scoops will make it into the arsenal this summer on the flats. It's a personal thing, but I am going to stick with plastic-free steelhead and salmon flies while exploiting Marc's scoops in the briny food chain in the sea.
BTW - coho clavers... you might want to take a look at these for saltchuck patterns! If you do Leland's popper on top and a wiggly baitfish after 8 or 9 am on a sinking line, it could be a slamfest out there.
02-01-2005, 06:54 AM
well, it is not "plastic free", but you could make a lip out of deer hair and stiffen it up with head cement or some kind of glue. Maybe epoxy? Maybe softex? I have seen some cool waker flies that were made of deer hair, and had an upward turned lip of renforced hair.
02-01-2005, 07:19 AM
A couple of people have posted about using deer hair and stiffening it with epoxy. This is exactly what I do, and it seems to work pretty well (in the bathtub anyway :) ). I haven't had a chance to fish them for real yet, but in the bathtub they wobble very well. I just tie it in and wrap behind it a bunch of times to create a cupped head, then put a few layers of epoxy on the hair and trim it. I'm still experimenting with this technique since my original intention was simply to create a cupped head that created a big air trail and disruption when stripped. It ended up creating quite a wobble in the fly though! I use zonkers for the tail, and usually a chenille body. The wobble really makes the zonkers move back and forth a lot and I have high hopes for these flies! :hihi:
"For wobble, I use a muddler head with a trailing tail (rabbit, marabou, etc) pulled down with a sinktip. A pulled muddler head wobbles real nice, casts well, and catches a lot of fish."
Ditto I enjoy playing around with all types of tying but a standard muddler head, a rabbit strip, fished on a sink tip wobbles & dances well if it is overly weighted.
The muddler I posted in this section below is an example.