Atlantis Lines [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Atlantis Lines


Smcdermott
07-29-2004, 01:46 PM
Juro or all,

I know this topic has been discussed in more threads than I can count (part of my problem) but I was curious if there are few lines you would reccommend as the ones to get on a limited budget for the atlantis. Is there a shooting head system that will give me floater, int, sinker in one or am I better off with full lines for real life fishing. I don't have the time or money to try a bunch of different lines but want to be prepared for the fall run. Hopefully we can get some practice sessions in at the Boneclave.

TIA,
Sean

Dble Haul
07-29-2004, 02:11 PM
Sean, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I've spent the past few days looking at the backlog of info in the archives on this subject, and it seems that the shooting head system that works really well is the Airflo. The loop connections between the running line and heads are said to be quite smooth, and it spares the expense of having to purchase different spools for different lines.

It also appears that one of the better full lines for the Atlantis for all around use it the Wulff Triangle Tarpon taper in an intermediate.

Others have vouched for the Mach I and Rio products, but the two that I have already mentioned appear to have gotten the most "ink" here. I'm in the process of tracking down lines too, and will let everyone know how things work out. I should have my new Atlantis to me in a day or two. :D

Good luck with your search.

flyfisha1
07-29-2004, 02:43 PM
Hey Guys,
I went on the suggestion of Andrew at Tightlines Fly Shop (one of the forum sponsors) and lined the rod with Airflo Non-Stretch Miracle Shooting Braid (35-lb. Kevlar) with their 12-wt. intermediate and type-4 heads. First cast with the intermediate head was 135', most subsequent casts were longer by 5-15'. This seemed to work pretty well for me. I think the shooting line is in the realm of $25, and honestly I think I wold be able to get by with only the intermediate head for most of the fishing that would be done with the rod. If you're interested in the heads, let me know, I have an extra of each hanging around that I have no use for.

juro
07-29-2004, 03:21 PM
Fast answer: Full 12wt intermediate or a more versatile shooting head system.

Details: Choosing a line for the Surf-tamer starts with thinking about how you want to use the rod.

There are five categories:
Speciality lines
Floating full lines
Intermediate full lines
Sinking full lines
Shooting heads

Speciality:
If you are thinking of swinging flatwings without stripping the fly, that Mach I floater is a real gem with a head length of over 50 ft and a very nice taper for casting and mending, even spey casting. I would consider this a speciality line, just beautiful to cast but a little too long of a head section for a strip-to-the-butt guy like me. I do however use that line for demos and flyshows as the loops are gorgeous and it's a feel-good like if I ever had one. I would also use this speciality line for greaselining rivers if I somehow forgot one of the other true spey rods CND makes, which is not likely.

Full floating:
If you are thinking of fishing big poppers and bangers for stripers and blues, 'cuda or reaching tarpon in the keys, trevally, etc - then my favorite would be the Wulff Bermuda Triangle 12wt which has a very short 30ft front taper and weighs in at approx 550 grains up front. The 105 ft line plus 10ft leader gets to the backing in a hurry too. Rio makes a range of great lines for this purpose as well, including the Scandinavian Shooting heads cut back to about 38 ft. Another alternative is the shooting head with a floating head, which we'll discuss later.

Surf flyfishing:
Most nor'easters including Sean and Mark are thinking about fishing the striper country surf using the gamut of deceivers, clousers, half and halfs, and the like - albeit tied "Atlantis size". Why not throw the kitchen sink! Fishing a little larger on the scale than the single hander more like the plug guys than the sluggo slingers. This narrows the choices down to two options:

1) the meat and potatoes 12wt full intermediate WF line or
2) ultra versatile shooting head systems

The three best intermediate lines I have cast on this rod are:

a) Wulff SW 12wt intermediate coldwater (light blue color, not clear)
b) Airflo clear intermediate 12wt cold water
c) SA 12wt tarpon line (light blue)

Granted I am out of line money and haven't tried them all, but these three stood out as very very nice to cast. If line companies want to send me their lines I will happily try them all, but right now my line budget is maxed to the hilt when considering the 18 (5 new) models of rods I have to try to put lines on.

Shooting head is a must-have!
Because some of my favorite benefits of the big rods are the ability to fish deep fast rips, or to throw big bangers on a floater, while the vast majority of the time I am fishing an intermediate... I go with shooting heads a lot. Shooting heads let you switch up without much ado and with only one spool. In fact I can use the same reel and running line with a different head on my 9/10wt Atlantis All-arounder demo when I expect schoolies to be the rule, or on the flats, etc.

Lately I am hooked on the Rio slickshooter 50# flat mono lately because it shoots like mad, feels fat in the fingers, and doesn't tangle much. I also like the Airflo miracle braid because it shoots like mad and you can make a loop right in the line so there is no bump to speak of but you have to strip it two-handed or the texture can cut your finger over the course of a long day. There are loads of good shooting lines out there to choose from but the ones that stay in the basket are the best.

Sinking shooting heads:

1) airflo 35ft 12wt DI-7 gets the nod most often although it feels a little short
2) airflo 45ft 12wt DI-7 is another longer missle option
3) airflo 35ft 12wt type 3 shooting head is a little light but very very nice and easy to shoot long casts with. Haven't tried the 45 ft but I'll bet it's right on the money.

more later, gotta put out a fire...

flydoc
07-29-2004, 05:20 PM
Juro- where did you pick up the Rio 50# Slickshooter running line? I haven't been able to find it on any website, and don't want to head off-Cape unless I know the shop I'm heading to will have it in stock (or at least have the order in when they tell me it's going to be in, so I don't have to make two trips).
Doc Shep

P.S.- I found the 35ft DI-7 head a little light, so tried the 45ft- TOO LONG. Then I trimmed it down to 40ft- just right, as Goldilocks once said....

juro
07-29-2004, 05:21 PM
Our sponsor Bears Den just got a shipment in - you can reach Scott at bearsden.com hurry I just bought two :lildevl:

One note - you will need a bigger stripping basket. Not because the line doesn't sit well, but because it shoots more than the average basket can hold. I am working on a mondo basket for the fall migration that I hope will hold the whole 115ft of running line without tangling.

flydoc
07-29-2004, 06:16 PM
Juro- that has been a problem for me with my current basket; I often find a good section of running line getting pulled out of the basket and onto the water/sand or around my feet during roll casts and backcasts. The line also has a tendency to tangle, ruining what otherwise would have been awesome casts. :mad:
I'm almost thinking of strapping an undersized plastic kitchen trash container to my waist to see if that would work.....hopefully you will come up with something a bit more practical and portable!
Doc Shep :D

DickIvers
07-30-2004, 09:13 AM
Orvis has some of their 38 ft heads on sale at $19 each........the floating and x-fast sinking are the items on sale. Note that the the x-fast sinking is available up to 14 wt. if you want more grains

Dble Haul
07-30-2004, 10:05 AM
Dick, that is yet another option that I've been looking into.....and since the shop I currently tie for is an Orvis dealer, I think I'll get a chance to take them for a test drive. :wink:

The rod might be arriving today..... :D

Dble Haul
07-30-2004, 11:58 AM
IT'S HERE.........

Suddenly I don't feel well enough to be at work. :devil:

juro
07-30-2004, 12:46 PM
Dick -

That's a steal! Do you happen to know what the grain weights are? 38ft is a perfect length for overhead casting as well...

DickIvers
07-30-2004, 01:32 PM
Juro,

I ordered two Orvis heads. I'll let you know the weights after I get them. I have a scale that is accurate to .01 gram (.15 grains)

I'm getting a 13 wt x-fast sinking head. My guess is that this line will weigh about 546 grains based on the fact that the first 30 ft will weigh 442 grains (standard for a 13 wt) and the extra 8 ft will add about 104 grains.

Also getting a 12 wt floater. That's as high as they offer for a floating head. I estimate his line will come in at about 484 grains.

In the past, my casting deficiencies have been improved or eliminated with MORE GRAINS!

juro
07-30-2004, 03:48 PM
I heard that Orvis heads higher than 12wt are only 30 ft long so whatever grains they give you will be all in that head section. Who knows I'll bet it is a nice match, and will carry the fall bunker flies far enough to get the big cows attention while being easy to roll out for the next cast.

I was wondering if you have had an opportunity to practice lately? I think we should get together again on that soccer field when these lines come in.

I will have some new line setups to play with as well.

DickIvers
07-30-2004, 04:22 PM
Juro,

You are correct. The Orvis heads are 38 ft long for 12 wt and below. Above 12 wt they are 30 ft. Since I want more grains I'll probably exchange the 13 wt. I ordered for a 12 wt when my order arrives...

I would like to get together with you when I have all the lines. However, it will not be for a while..I'll be on the cape for the next two weeks then to Maine for the fourth week in August

Arthur Robert
07-30-2004, 08:04 PM
Chris: Are the Airflo heads you used the 45 footers or the 35 footers? I have used my Atlantis in the Chatem area this past May and June 17 times. I started with 2 lines both Airflow shooting heads in 45': one an intermediate and the other a type 3 sinker both in 12 weight. I could not handle this length of shooting head so I cut both down to 35'. Both now have a weight of about 450 graines. I was able to cast the type 3 sinker fair but had poor results with intermediate. I did get a 35' airflow in type 3 sinker in 12 weight. This line works the best for me. I also got a 12 weight Orvis intermediate full line. It only works fair for me. I've tried three types of shooting lines: Cortland braided momo 30 #, Rio clear intermediate shooting line in 20# 30# 50#,and Rio Slick shooter in3o#( I just got some in 50# but haven't tried it yet). I did spend some time on the flats with the rod using the intermediate head. I had three days when there were a good number of fish around. I had a lot of difficulty getting off quick accurate casrs. I'm still not satisfied with the results I"m getting . I don't blame the rod. I'm still struggling on how to use this tool. You can give two carpenters the same tools and materials and get a lot different quality of work. So it goes with casting ability. I'll keep working at it. If one of your Airflow heads is the 35" intermediate in 12 et I would be interested.

juro
07-30-2004, 08:48 PM
Hi Arthur -

Wish we hooked up while you were in town. Hope your trip went well here in stripah country USA.

Couple comments:

The trick to working with the 45ft shooting head is to strip the loop into the guides to the hands or further. That cuts the working length down to about 35 ft so you can roll it out easily. Then because the airflo loops are so skinny (and depending on the loop on the running line) you can slip shoot back out to the loop connection on a false cast then fire the whole head in a forward cast.

In addition to lines, I have found the most useful thing you can do is work on your casting stroke. Two-handed rods only ask for a few things and they will give you a huge return on investment. However they are picky about those few things.

load and unload the rod: use ample grains 550@35 works for me
accelerate smoothly from 1 o'clock and don't turn the tip over until the end of the cast when you pull the bottom hand in toward you to power the cast
the rod tip must travel in a straight path - practice by holding the back of the empty hand against a wall and going through the casting motion, it should never lose touch of the wall. Also make sure the other hand (bottom hand) is also moving in a perfectly straight line back and forth so the tip of the rod doesn't dip or rise
start by casting just the head of the line perfectly, a 'baby cast' - then try a smooth speed-up and stop with a little more vigor and let the running line go. That should go about 80 ft. Next, start with a perfect baby cast again, then drift the rod back and forth greater distances without letting the tip come out of it's path - in other words extend the stroke length. Shoot a little line, only 5-8 feet, into the final extended stroke back cast then with a smooth but vigorous acceleration on a straight path cast high on the horizon and that should zip a tight loop out there and show you the backing knot.


There are days when the two-hander rules the flats, and days when the single hander does. Bright days with long sighted shots I would prefer the two-hander especially with a cross-wind. Tough-sighting days when the fish are on the boot tops before you see them might be better with a single hander unless you have a few spey 'tip casts' under the belt.

Again the best places for a two-handed rod is in the surf, on a fast deep tide rip, a situation requiring flies suited to large flylines (12wt etc) or anywhere that distance gives you an advantage.

If you think 11ft is long out there, you can imagine adding a foot or two or three. For this application I do feel 11 is the limit both ways - not too short, not too long.

DitchRat
07-31-2004, 06:08 AM
You guys should try RIO's Scandinavian shooting head floating with a 15ft clear intermediate tip. They are 44.5ft and have a chart of how much to cut them down to get different grains. I've been using one on a 14" overhead stick and have been blasting out the line and all of my running line making one false cast (while water loading the rod) plus it will role cast about 75ft if you are so inclined. Its nice when fishing an inlet or current to just pick up the line and roll it right back out with out missing a beat. Just like steelhead fishing, I got all goosebumpy :chuckle:


I got to try it out on an atlantis also and it cast very easily and nicely on the rod

DitchRat
07-31-2004, 06:10 AM
heres a link about that line
http://www.rioproducts.com/pages/flylines_prodpage.asp?product=20900&useMet=0#chart[/URL]

flyfisha1
07-31-2004, 09:27 AM
Arthur - The lines were indeed the 35' heads. I thought I had pretty good success with casting this line, but my shooting line was different than yours.

Merrick
08-05-2004, 08:23 PM
In addition to a couple of 35' 12wt Airflo heads, I've been using an Orvis Wonderline WF13I Clear sink tip line on my Atlantis for a couple of months now. The head is 37' with the first 12' being clear. It loads the rod well and casts the entire 105' of the line pretty easily. Overall I've been quite happy with the line. Orvis retail is -gulp- $79.00 for the current model 'Wonderline Advantage'. I've picked up 2 lines now off of ebay for under $20 shipped each time. Overall a good value in my book.

-Scott

juro
08-06-2004, 12:13 PM
Dick, and all Atlantis Owners who are interested in a 12wt shooting head... my advice is to buy the 12wt floater in the 12wt. I need to go cast it out of my yard because the trees on the other side of my lawn were too close to see how far it would actually cast. I believe this line is manufactured by 3M Scientific Anglers, but that is pure conjecture on the exact packaging, labeling and finish I have on my SA lines :lildevl:


Juro,

You are correct. The Orvis heads are 38 ft long for 12 wt and below. Above 12 wt they are 30 ft. Since I want more grains I'll probably exchange the 13 wt. I ordered for a 12 wt when my order arrives...

I would like to get together with you when I have all the lines. However, it will not be for a while..I'll be on the cape for the next two weeks then to Maine for the fourth week in August