Atlantis Report [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Atlantis Report


sean
05-19-2004, 02:13 PM
Up until my trip to the Cape I had only a chance to wiggle this rod but had not cast it. Below are my thoughts in what I think is really a great new tool you guys now have at your disposal for beach casting.

The first day I arrived on the cape I decided to head down to Nauset beach since it was only about 5 miles away from where I was staying. I did not bring the Atlantis down and was really just going down for a quick look at the beach. I did have my 9 footer and on arriving at the beach I saw one guy fishing a single hander. There was a stiff wind coming from the south and what I saw was almost comical. This guy was casting between wave sets and running down the outgoing waves and doing a few false cast and them sending his fly out. This was followed by a scurry back up the beach to get out of the waves while feeding line into the surf. Basically it looked like so much of a pain in the arse I did not even attempt to fish and decided I would return with the atlantis the next day.

My setup was the following:

5' leader
35' Airflow Type 7 head
115' 50lb Rio slickshooter
Ross BG 7 reel

The wind was coming from the south but not strong enough where I needed to cast across my body to make sure I would not impale myself.

My first impression was how light the setup felt compared to my T&T Vector 9wt I had used the previous day. Yes the rod is heavier but with 2 hands it really felt more like my 9wt single hander than an 11' 11wt.

Then came the casting. After a few short casts and getting a feeling for the rod I stripped out all of the running line and loaded the rod up. First try I cast the whole thing and a chirped a couple feet of backing through the guides. Impressive to say the least, I had thought the slickshooter was only 100' but now that I look at the specs it was actually 115'. So that first cast measured out around 155'. Hot damn!

Now I do use double handers 90% of the time in Seattle but overhead casting is new to me. To be able to punch out all that line on my 5th cast is truly a testament to how easy a casting rod this is. You really get a feeling for the rod loading and it really lets you know when it is time to send the line out on the forward cast.

I found that by leaving about a 5' loop of line between your top and bottom hand and releasing your grip on the top hand on the back cast the line really takes off on the forward cast. It took a little practice but I was able to shoot line into the backcast with ease which is the key for long casting just like with single hand work.

Now onto to the fishing properties of the rod. I was able to stand about 5 feet out of the surf on dry sand and get more distance than I could ever achieve if I was using my single hander. This is great because I did not need waders and did not have to do the surf dance I saw being displayed the day before. By tucking the rod under my arm you effectively shorten the rod to that of a single hander and stripping is a piece of cake.

Some guys swear by the longer rods for overhead work but in my limited experience with them I like the fact you do not have a lot of rod out in front of you which can cause a lot of rod tip bounce when you are stripping. Plus how much more than 150' do you need to cast :) which is all a longer rod really gives you (distance) IMHO.

I was also fairly impressed with the slickshooter as a running line. Really shoots out of the guides and the 50lb was easy to strip in. Plus it only cost $10. If you do like a more fly line feel to the running line go with the Airflo polyshoot XT which will cut down on your distance a little but feels a little nicer in hand.

The only down side I saw was with the shooting heads. At extreme distance the turnover is a little funky. Talked with Juro and this seems to just be a characteristic with super thin shooting heads. You are creating so much casting energy that it actually keeps traveling over the length of the line and travels beyond what the line can handle. So you get a little recoil at the end of a really long cast(almost a bungee effect) and highly accurate casts are hard to achieve. We are only talking being off a target by 5' or so and for beach fishing it is not a problem. I think as double handers grow in popularity we will start seeing some new lines that address this situation. We are already seeing this with the new Airflo 40plus lines they make for single handers. You will immediately notice when looking at this lines (30-35' heads) how much fatter they are compared to traditional lines. I am no line guru but it seems but doing this they have created a line that can handle casting energy at distance. If you get a chance to cast one on a single hander I recommend it. They are truly impressive shooting head lines.

This only seems to happen over 120' and when it comes down to it it really is not an issue. At shorter distances if you see this just slow down your casting stroke and you do not have a problem. This is also more of an issue with how I cast. I like to whack my forward cast much more than someone like Juro who is more relaxed. Also if it really bothers you you can step up to the 45' shooting heads and that helps but I find the 35' head easier to get back out after stripping it all in.

Hats off to Nobuo and Juro for creating an awesome tool. Juro will tell you I call bull**** on a crappy products. Even though he is a good friend I would be the first to tell him I hated the Atlantis if that was the case. This rod rocks but the 5 keepers I caught on it might not agree:smokin:

I think the picture says it all.

Nauset beach, no waders, 5' out of the surf line, Heman casts.

flyfisha1
05-19-2004, 02:59 PM
Very informational, Sean, thanks. I'm looking forward to using mine for the first time tomorrow in Florida. I wonder if I might be so lucky as to be the first to hook and land a tarpon with an Atlantis?

I'm using the Airflo braided no-strecth running line with their 35' 12-wt. heads. I haven't cast the sinking line yet, but the intermediate seems to shoot quite well. I know what you mean regarding the turnover of the line at the end of the cast; I noticed the same thing happening and I think it was because I had unwittingly, and unknowingly, sped up my casting stroke and tried to "shoot the moon". Slowing the stroke back down a tad and easing off the power got the loop back in the proper form and enabled me to cast further. I imagine that as my familiarity with the rod grows, I'll be able to apply power correctly and get more out of the cast. I was happy to get 135' casts with consistency and relatively little effort when compared to using a single-hander.

BRING ON THE POONS

2HandTheSalt
05-21-2004, 07:09 AM
Sean that is an excellent assessment of the two-handed rod, especially coming from a newbie to the surf.

Your picture also clearly illustrates one of the most important advantages of longer rods in the surf. The ability to stand out of the surf and maintain control over the fly, even when the fish are right in the wash.

juro
05-21-2004, 08:03 AM
Good point about standing off and still getting all of the beach.

Last Saturday during the spring kick-off clave the migration graced the beach in front of us for 6 hours solid and showed no signs of stopping when we had to leave.

In addition to the ability to stand off the messy stuff was an advantage to distance due to the way the fish were moving along the beach. My estimates were the following:

75% travelled beyond 100 feet from the top of the wash line
20% travelled beyond 60 feet from the top of the wash line
5% travelled within 60 feet "

(My guestimates, clavers please chime in)

So if I am correct, when the wash is pushing 20 feet up the forebeach, a caster with 60ft distance off the opposite shoulder must stand taking waves in the face to reach 25% of the passing fish.

A caster needs 80ft of offshoulder distance while taking waves in the face to scratch the surface of the majority of passing migrants where I was standing. One could always move, of course. But the question here is "does one really have to move?"

The percentage of pods I could present my fly effectively to (judging by "grabbed_flies/pod" ratio) was well over 70%, possibly 80%. In other words 7 or 8 out of 10 visible passing pods (not counting those that passed while I had a fish on) resulted in a grab for me with the Atlantis due specifically to distance.

Those who could not consistently reach 100'+ were dramatically less successful in terms of hookups per pod.

Here's the kicker - the wind was hard out of the south, making casting absolutely critical off the left shoulder or backwards. Every cast I made was lefthanded (left hand up) or made across my body "cack-handed" as Simon Gawesworth put it.

Another factor is my position - if there wasn't a clave sized crowd I could have moved to another spot to get a closer shot at fish. But for where I was I believe the distances listed above are accurate.

Only a few of the fish were of any size, only one was a legal released fish but maintained a consistent 100'+ cast in a hard crosswind for 6 hours to reach the majority of pods all day long and didn't even get sore - except my thumb :smokin:

DickIvers
05-21-2004, 08:52 AM
Juro,

Could you explain the cross-body cast mechanics a little more. I am familiar with how to handle a right to left cross wind with a single-handed rod, but not with a 2-hander.

With a one- hander I first turn my feet and body a little ccw so that the plane of the line will be downwind during the cast and away from my body. Then I make the backcast, using a foward stroke, back toward the beach. Then I send the presentation cast, with a backhand stroke, out into the water. It is very much a backhand sweep just like in tennis.

Do you do the same with a 2-hander? When I watched you on South Beach that fatefull Sat. it seemed that you were turning your top hand so that rod was being pushed forward on the final cast. Whatever you were doing it was impressive. The cast went a long long way.

Dick

Roop
05-21-2004, 09:02 AM
Between Sean's review & Juro's report, it's easy to see that this is going to greatly change SWFF here in the Northeast.

One of the things that always frustrated me was trying to cast to fish beyond the surfline. So I stopped fishing those conditions.

Nice to see the solution is here, this should open up even more areas to the shorebound flyrodder and a great alternative to when the flats are dry!

Roop

juro
05-21-2004, 10:08 AM
Dick -

The cast is popular in the pacific northwest with speyrodders and is often referred to as a "reverse spey". In this case, the line was fully thrown back and thus not a spey cast, but a "reverse overhand".

Aside from all the jargon, it's just taking the rod and tilting it across the body to the other side. With 11ft there's plenty to reach over with, while still being easy to handle for stripping and fishing duties.

You can do it with a 9ft rod but it puts intense pressure on the thumb and tries to use arm muscles in a way they are not designed to do - unless there is a bottom hand power plant to deploy for the task. The top hand steers and the bottom hand drives the cast, unlike the single-handed cross-body cast which tries to do both. For 5wt trout applications a cross-cast is no problem, but in beach conditions it's a different story.

You can even face the upper hand backwards so the palm is facing you since it's just jabbing forward a little while the bottom hand bends the rod hard with an inward pull.

A backcast is simply formed on the other side of the body, making sure it's 180 degrees to target. Once the head is in the air, straight and well formed, the push/pull stroke punches the cast out there with relative ease. The Atlantis taper is designed to cast best with less power and more technique, rewarding the angler with increasing ease as the amount of practice increases. To increase distance the caster simply needs to accelerate the stroke while making sure there is a full load in the rod (straight and fully extended backcast).

You describe the backward casting technique that most singlehand casters use in cross winds in striper country, myself included. It's quite effective with two concerns (1) you turn your back on the surf and (2) you are limited to the number of grains and rod power of one hand. It also takes a lot more energy to accomplish the same results, requiring the grinding of feet and swirling of water in windy flats situations.

Some backhand single-hand casters will fare better than some two-handed reverse casters, but all things being equal the one throwing with two-hands can take advantage of more grains and line speed with less effort and strain.

The Surf-tamer is not a schoolie rod, it's designed for large saltwater gamefish. It makes me seek big fish, which often leads to finding them. Flyfishermen are often type-cast as schoolie seekers, and sometimes I can see why. But with the right gear there is really no reason not to flyfish with the same mentality as someone throwing big wood out there.

I was using the 9/10 prototype Saturday, which makes even smaller fish feel sporty. The feisty spring legals and near legals put up a heck of a battle on it. It's not quite the rod the 11/12wt rod is; it won't necessarily lead you to learn big fish methods. But put a 10wt shooting head on it and it sure makes big casts easy.

These things take a little practice but with the right lines and some tweaking of the differences in casting mechanics there is a big reward in terms of effort for effectiveness.

Roop -

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I am anxious to see how people get on with 2-handers on the beach over the course of the season. If Sean and Paul Cheever (striperstripper) are the norm, they're going to get on quite well! Althought they've been around for centuries they are so new on the scene that most people on the beach are in the exploration stage. I believe that over the next few years the type of learning that went on with singlehanded flyrods in the salt since you and I started to see them showing up on the beach (well within our fishing careers) will also occur for two-handed rods and open up another side of the sport for us shore-shleppers.

Things are moving ahead - new "Striper 2Hnd" lines are being developed by a major manufacturer as we speak, grains matched and 150ft right out of the factory with the designer fully expecting people to hit the backing knot. Virtually no stretch in the running line, heads designed to get down to business. We should expect to have prototypes in hand next month. Tapers designed to go the distance without getting ahead of themselves like today's lines often do at over 100'. Can't wait to try them!

I hope the new lines, rods and most importantly thinking brings out the potential of flyfishing in the big blue ocean.

GregD
05-21-2004, 10:09 AM
I have fished Nausett just the way Sean witnessed someone else scurring between wave sets to get your fly out far enough.
In the big surf with a blasting wind, it seems the only way to get a reasonable distance to fish the area.

Couldn't agree more with Roops thoughts about not fishing in those conditions because of not being able to cast out far enough. I am now looking forward to fishing Nausett or South Beach for that matter again with the Atlantis, I know I'll be able to reach my target areas now instead of falling short and getting soaked in the process. I still enjoy wading in the surf, But it is really nice to be able to cast far enough without taking a wave or running from one. :cool:

Tight lines,
Greg.

DFix
05-21-2004, 11:12 AM
This whole methodology will work very well on North Shore beaches and their rough surf conditions; I'm hoping to try it some day. All replies in this thread help to understand theory/practice. Thanks.

Adrian
05-21-2004, 12:30 PM
Still working out the kinks in my Technique here - and there are plenty. Actually my best / consistent results so far have come with the Hardy Mach I floater. This line combined with LC13 tips from 2' to 10' covered all of my needs on the Cape last weekend, even in the big wind which blew up Saturday night. Once the mach I head is outside the tip, reaching out beyond the 100ft mark is easy. I think thats because I can see the loop clearly and adjust accordingly. Also with the grains distributed over a longer length, timing is easier. Practicing with dark colored sinking heads in the back yard, its tough to see and everything happens a whole lot faster. My most frequent mistakes include:

- Allowing the right hand to slide down nearer the reel where its used to being.

- Applying power/too much power with the right hand rather than using the left / right combo.

- "Coming over the top" - thats what they call it in golf - basicly coming "around" on the forward delivery and not staying on plane.

- Standing on my running line when I get everything else right :rolleyes:

Each day brings more improvements however :D

I've been doing a lot of experimenting - chopping heads out of unused "bargain box" 13 / 14wts picked up at shows over the years. I haven't found anything that hits the sweetspot quite like the mach I yet but we're getting closer. :smokin:

juro
05-21-2004, 12:51 PM
Adrian,

I also love the Mach I and use it to demo at fly shows, it's real purty to cast with that graceful taper. The head is quite long (50+ ft) so for my style of fishing I tend to work my way through short line hijinks (30-35 ft) in favor of easier strip retrieve / and quick shooting of casts. You're right it all happens very fast, but once the caster (myself) slows down things happen at normal speed and it goes well, especially when the fly is big and slows down the turnover. Some of my lines cast best with huge flies due to the density and line speed. For long swinging flatwing presentations I would imagine the Mach I is like a dream to fish in tidal currents. These lines spey cast quite well on the 11ft'er as well.

Very soon we'll see new production lines that are tuned to short head / long distance casting applications in both clear intermediate and high density sinking.

Per the "hook" - assuming you mean the rod tip comes around in an inward circular fashion... neat trick from Nobuo-san and Tak Shimosawa:

Apply the forward stroke power with a vee-grip (rod in the crotch of the thumb and index finger) instead of the traditional thumbs up or baseball grip, and make sure you can see a little of the back of your hand at the end of the stroke. This makes it very hard to cut inside on the power (or should I say acceleration) stroke.

striperstripper
05-21-2004, 01:08 PM
I've had the atlantis for about 2 weeks now ,and everytime I cast it either in a practice session or actually fishing this rod it never ceases to amaze me.I,ve had the opportunity to cast in all wind directions from a strong south wind from behind me to a gale force wind from right to left or a good blow from the north straight in my face like the other day on the bay side,this rod will put it out there.I think it's all in the timing,and not over powering the forward stroke and remembering to hit the wall stop at the 10:00 o'clock position in the back and forward casts,just let the rod and the higher grain line do the work for you.I've been using the wulff 12wt. triangle taper and achieving 115 ft casts with a 10 ft leader consistently in less than desirable conditions.I have ordered airflo shooting heads in floating ,intermidiate,type3 and type7 and can't wait to launch them.The other day at south beach during the clave when we were fighting the strong right to left south wind I found myself approaching the situation like you would with a single hand rod ,standing in the breakers triing to reach the location of the schools,until I realized I didn't have to take the beating with this rod.I can honestly say of all the fishing equipment I've bought over the years,this rod is definitely top of the list of right decisions.Thank you Juro and CND.:hehe:

shadfreak
05-21-2004, 01:53 PM
Juro's right about the day on South Beach. I was right next tohim in the afternoon. I was casting left handed and was consistantly falling 10 or more feet short of the fish. Between the wind getting tired and my first long day of fishing this year I did ok. I have to admit it was an eye opener watching Juro put a fly on the back side of the pods.
Larry

davidstrout
05-29-2004, 12:34 AM
I do not question either...

1-The quality of the product (I own the Atlantis 11 x 11 and have enjoyed practicing with it for 6 months)

2-The effectiveness of it as a fishing and casting tool--leanth versus 14 footers, lightness, responsiveness, ability to handle a wide variety of lines etc...

3-The sheer joy of sending out long casts and its effectiveness in doing so....

I do question however......

The distances proposed as reached by individuals on this board are ridiculous.....

155 feet....come now..

Meant with respect...go measure

Line has curves

David

juro
05-29-2004, 12:51 AM
David -

I agree in the sense that all that really matters is whether a caster can do 100-120 with ease and consistency, and do so with bigger flies in adverse conditions. The playtime setups (braided running lines, 625 grain shooting heads) aren't really fishable anyway, although many Jersey guys I met at Somerset swear by braid.

I think I am guilty of making such claims too, and these distance claims were made on the premise that with a good cast a 10ft leader straightens out on a 45ft shooting head (e.g. an Airflo 12wt DI-7 45ft "expert" shooting head at ~630 grains) and the braided running line that goes twang is 100ft long and the backing knot is past the first or even second stripping guide, and the cast is made from a soccer field and the yarn has crossed the goal line, then discounting wiggles it's a clean 145ft (10 ft for wiggles) from the front foot to the yarn.

But few casters can consistently get all that to straighten out cast after cast (myself included) and even fewer care. What's more important is that stepping up to a bigger tool allows anglers to deal with bigger conditions for longer periods of time with little exertion and the additional distance (whatever that may be) puts the fly in the water longer and reaches more fish when needed.

I think it would be fun to have more get togethers with others exploring two-handers this season. We could meet on a football field and see how many yards the fly reaches and multiply by three to get the distance in feet. Then of course we could run to the beach and chase fish.

Do you get up to the cape at all thru the year? How about your neck of the woods, when is the best time?

Greg Pavlov
05-29-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by davidstrout

I do question however......

The distances proposed as reached by individuals on this board are ridiculous.....
155 feet....come now..
Meant with respect...go measure
Line has curves
I don't know what the max is, but LC13 with a skinny running line is something that has just about as much in common with a spinning rig as it does with a flyrod/flyline combo, and I'm sure you've seen how far a surf fisherman can bang out a big Kastmaster.

juro
05-29-2004, 01:06 AM
Lately I am gravitating toward lines that call for a more relaxed and comfortable motion that will still reach 120 or so ft. It was fun exploring the LC13 bullet casts, but hey it's time to fish not play.

Greg, if you want to try something graceful yet astounding for distance try the Hardy Mach I 10/11 floater on it. Absolutely no resemblance to anything spin but all about distance, and it spey casts too.

I hope Rajeff Sports doesn't mind me spilling the beans that they are developing a new 150ft line designed specifically for two-handed rods of this caliber, and I highly doubt anyone with a little practice will have a problem reaching 120 with them.

David makes a good point the actual distance of a fly cast should be measured from the front foot to the fly. I would really be curious how far Andrew's (Tightlines Flyfishing) cast we had on video went when it flew over the top of that SUV in the parking lot at Danbury. The running line flew out so fast the drag chirped and the leader was as straight out, 100ft of braid behind the 45ft shooting head mentioned above.

The video from January (time for some new ones with various lines)...

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk3/showthread.php?&threadid=14054

Greg Pavlov
05-29-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by juro
Greg, if you want to try something graceful yet astounding for distance try the Hardy Mach I 10/11 floater on it. Absolutely no resemblance to anything spin but all about distance, and it spey casts too.
When I first received the Atlantis the only lines I had that came sorta close capacity-wise were two of my Rio MidSpeys and while I know I didn't get the distance other people would have, the rod did well with them. For practicing in grass, etc I picked up a pair of dirt-cheap Cortland 333 12 wt floaters. They're 105 ft and every once in a while when the moon and stars align and I randomly get all of my body parts in sync with each other, the entire line goes out with not muchl physical effort. I feel like I'll be cheating when I get to Nauset Beach next week :-)

sean
05-29-2004, 01:41 PM
I did not mean to sound like I was bragging but that was an accurate assesment on how much line was out in the water and it was all in a pretty straight line. Maybe knock 10-15' out for wiggles but still impressive casts. That day on Nauset I did have a little cross wind which helps with lift so I did get more distance than in a no wind situation.

I was out again last night and was getting a good honest 140-150 with a type 7 35' head. I don't need to measure cause I was dumping the whole running line which I know is 115'. Yeah there is some curve there but not a whole lot on the better casts.

With the mach I floating head I was only hitting about 120 consistently but as a clean up my stroke I expect farther.

150 does not seem out of question to me. Hell, a good speycaster can throw 140-150 and I can get 110 out of my 7wt single hander on a good day. Really good single handers can get 140 with a 9wt so with an Atlantis a decent caster should be able to get 150 with a shooting head. Emphasis on shooting head.

And like Juro says these are just hero casts and not really fishing casts. A comfortable 120 is as much as I will ever need and it is amazing how east it is to achieve this with the atlantis.

-sean

juro
05-29-2004, 07:09 PM
Sean is a spey caster in spey country so it's very reasonable that he'd get the stroke quickly. Yet Paul Cheever is a local Cape guy who watched some spey videos and has only been playing with the rod for two months - but already his casting is a thing of beauty to watch. It's all about timing, not power. Although the rod and big lines make one think they need power, it's all about timing and acceleration once things are matched up.

The best approach is to find a line with a head portion that works well with the rod. Just cast that head portion, forget shooting for a minute. A Wulff tarpon 12wt is a good example, the Airflo 35 ft shooting heads work the rod well, as does the Hardy Mach I 10/11 (a long spey line), and of course the Rio saltwater heads and lines.

I like to imagine both of my hands traveling in their own parrallel planes without wandering to the sides at all. Then think about the path of the power leaving the rod at the tip, keeping that in a perfectly straight line as if throwing a javelin up there.

A nice, tight straight loop with full extension on both ends is achieved. Not a lot of power, just smooth timing. Way less than you'd expect for a 11/12wt rod. Then when you are in the groove, slide a little bit of line into the backcast, 5 feet or so, and come forward in the same vector as all the other casts but with a little more acceleration toward the end of the cast and stop it hard. That's about all it takes to break triple digits (100+). The less effort the better.

As you get comfortable with a easy 100ft cast, then drift the rod back a little as you slide the line into the backcast. This does not mean drop the rod tip, it just means reach the rod in the same plane and vector so your arms will get a longer acceleration stroke.

When the backcast is complete, starting from the fully back position, stroke forward with acceleration until you cross midnight and then apply a quick push/pull instantaneously with both hands to accelerate the begeejus out of the loop and that should break 120'.

Now put a 35' DI-7 Airflo shooting head on a slickshooter running line, or a 45ft DI-7 head on a braided 20# line, and give it the gun. As long as the energy wave is traveling in a narrow imaginary tube with the stroke staying in plane, the average caster should be able to propel the line between 130-150 ft with little comparative effort.

Today I bought the Rio slickshooter 50# and the 120ft 35# Airflo miracle braid. I also have the Polyshoot XT, a 150ft running line. I wont' bother with the braided mono because I've decided I wouldn't fish with that even though it shoots like the wind. I will put the 45 ft DI-7 head on all three of them, go to the football field with a witness, and stop between casts to run out and check the position of the yarn from the yardmarker I started from sometime early next week. I will post the actual measurements I get.

Keeping in mind that casting is casting and fishing is fishing, and one does not necessarily make one better at the other, of course.

Greg Pavlov
05-29-2004, 10:12 PM
[i]
The video from January (time for some new ones with various lines)...
[/B]
It looks to me that he is casting sidearm, and the rod itip is tracking an arc, or is that just the camera angle ?

juro
05-29-2004, 10:57 PM
No, Drew is also an experienced spey caster and if you think about it he was using a belgian style cast that day, similar to a single spey but extending the backcast fully using an underhand backcast to an overhand forward cast.

As I recall it was mostly because we had a bunch of trees at the corner, those who were there or are familiar with the grounds at the Danbury show know that we were all the way back as far as we could go on that grass patch without hitting the trees or falling off the edge and we really couldn't get away with an upright type of cast. But with a shooting head it doesn't matter anyway, as long as the backcast is extended.

Like I said above, high-grain shooting heads are a beast of a different color. If you want to see an example of more familiar lines being cast for distance, I plan on taking some footage of casting the wulff tarpon line or the Hardy Mach I 10/11. These lines are cast with a very "formal" stroke in both directions, I mention this for the sake of contrasting styles not to say one is more effective than the other.

Also, I hear rumor that Simon Gawesworth is working on a new video that will include all types of two-handed casting including overhand casting with some focus on what us beach flyguys are up to. Knowing Simon it will be a must-see when it hits the shelves.

I just cast the Atlantis with the strong arm doing what it does with a single handed rod but let extra power come from the power plant in the other hand down below. The key is to keep things tracking in a straight path, which Drew does very well in this clip. Straight as an arrow in fact.

Once you get a loop coming back and forth with ease, accelerate a little more quickly on the forward stroke using both hands and watch it fly!

davidstrout
05-30-2004, 10:31 AM
Juro....Thanks for your response a copupla threads back.....I am not really trying to say that long 140'+ casts aren't being made or that people aren't capable of doing so just that its not as easy for most people to just "buy a two hander, load up a head and running line and presto---130 feet every time"

I think you made a undervalued point when you said something to the point of..."Actual fishing conditions versus lawn casting"

Wind, light conditions, fishes location and feeding behaviors are all variables to consider (ntm accuracy in presentation)

The atlantis does allow a reasonably accurate (sometimes on the $ depending on lines used) delivery of everything from 2"-18" flies @ 100 ft+ everytime and for me thats the ticket....

I would love to come up and meet

I have been fishing the delaware like mad of late and still have trucha on the mind....When the big spinners are done in a coupla weeks I will meet you anywhere...(consider comin down here when these peanuts start in july--Ill guarantee some sights of wonder)

David

juro
05-31-2004, 02:10 AM
Peanuts in July? That's a full month ahead of the Cape, sounds good.

I have some views on accuracy with two hands. Like anything, it's a matter of practice. If you took any spey caster from the pacific northwest, UK or Scandinavia, their accuracy would be immediately better with two hands than the emerging beach casters on the atlantic and pacific shores, simply because of practice.

Having taken only a fraction of casts with two-hands verses single-handed, I haven't all that much practice but I can put the fly right on target consistently. The lighter prototype is just a fantastic flats rod for me and putting modesty aside I can really bang on the migratory fishery on the outer beaches with spot-on placement of the fly at distances unachievable with my single handed rods. I hit more pods than I miss by a huge margin, heads and shoulders above my single hander would do for me.

It's not fair to say a two-handed rod is less or more accurate without an equal number of casts under the belt of the person operating the tool.

I am not sure a rod is accurate or not, but the caster might be.

But that's just my view.

Greg Pavlov
05-31-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by juro
No, Drew is also an experienced spey caster and if you think about it he was using a belgian style cast that day, similar to a single spey but extending the backcast fully using an underhand backcast to an overhand forward cast.

I don't know what a Belgian cast is, but after watchiing that clip about 20 times I tried tilting the tip of the Atlantis further out and found that it imakes for a much more "natural" casting stroke for me. Unfortunately, it also brings the fly down closer to the ground, so I need to work my way back up a ways.

striperstripper
06-02-2004, 12:40 PM
Last week I picked up the airflo 45' shooting heads, floating,intermediate,type 3 and type 7 with the airflo 100' polyfuse running line,it took a little time to get used to the longer head,after a week of trial and error the technique thats been working best for me has been to rollcast the full length of the head out with about a foot of running line,start the backcast as soon as the heads straighten out and kisses the water similar to a water haul.This seems to really load the rod,I can feel the rod loading as the backcast straightens out behind me.The floating,type3 and type 7 heads shoot out 125'-135' fairly consistant,the intermediate line has been a little disappointing as far as the length acheived,the cast starts out like the other heads but it seems to loose steam and tends to collapse as the loop starts to turn over,anyone offer a idea why?It's only 60 odd grains lighter than the other heads,I wouldn't think that would be enough to make a differance.All in all I'm very happy with the overall performence with this heads

sean
06-02-2004, 02:03 PM
60 grains makes a lot of difference with these heads unfortunately. I think the 12wt heads are at the lower end of what the Atlantis will take. For instance the 50 foot floater I have been using is around 640 grains and it works really well on the rod.

So IMHO taking away those 60 grains on what are already light heads for the rod and you just not gonna get the load. You can try slipping some line into the backcast and that will help a little.

I know Juro like the Wulff Clear 12wt Triangle Taper on this rod so that may be worth a shot.

-sean

striperstripper
06-03-2004, 01:10 AM
The airflo shooting heads I've been using,floating,type 3 and type 7 are all around 630 grains,the intermediate is 569 grains. The wulff 12wt triangle taper at somewhere in the low 400's loads and casts usually flawlessly,it's only down fall is line length,you loose up to 25 ft in casting length compared to the other lines.I surprised the heavier head doesn't perform better than the lower grained full line.One other thing I noticed is the head of the aqua colored wulff line is thicker than the clear intermediate airflo head.

sean
06-03-2004, 12:03 PM
Hmm I will have to go and re-weigh my heads. I thought they were in the low to mid 530s...

If they are at 630 there goes my theory as to why I am not feeling them load the rod as well as I like. I am probabyly just a crap caster :)

-sean

Greg Pavlov
06-03-2004, 06:12 PM
For Airflo head weights see the following on Tim Rajeff's site:

http://www.rajeffsports.com/headspecs.php