: atlantis beach tamer
05-09-2004, 07:16 PM
I picked up the rod last week but I tried it for the first time today,never having cast a 2 hand rod of any kind before I 'm at the bottom of the learning curve,and totally in need of lots of practice,any suggestions or pointers will be greatly appreciated. thanks paul.
05-09-2004, 08:41 PM
Check out the "Learn to Spey Cast" thread in the Worldwide Disucssion Forum here at Flytalk. Juro et al will be holding a seminar on the Merrimac River very soon, and you can find info in that thread.
05-09-2004, 09:27 PM
Gimme' a shout or pm and we can get you off and running...
I've got one rigged with a 580 intermediate shooting head and the system is fun once you start to break the code...
I'm no expert but I can throw far enough to catch fish that were once outa' range with a single hander...
Make it to the clave next weekend and you can corner Juro!
Hi Paul -
Welcome to the fraternity of two-handed beach fly casters! Although it does take a little getting used to, it should only take a few practice sessions to get the technique down cold. Most cases a morning or afternoon with the rod is all it takes! Here are a few pointers, also if you can make it to the Spring Clave on Cape Cod I or any of the other two-handed casting dudes can help you for sure:
Make sure you have enough grains in the line to flex the rod, like Penguin says 580 is perfect. This rod, althought very light, is not a toy :)
Pay attention to the grip - hold the rod on the upper half of the top handle and put the butt in the crotch of your bottom hand between the thumb and palm
Flip the middle finger with your upper hand, place the line under it, then close the finger. This lays the line against three fingers. Also put the line into the fingers on the bottom hand for insurance in case it slips on the upper hand.
Practice just casting the head portion of the line gently, find a clean "lane" where the loop is nice on both sides. NOTE: the stroke will be much more abrupt than a single handed stroke.
There is no double haul, you use the bottom hand to pull against the top hand push to accelerate the line as needed
Once you have a clean low effort casting stroke, slide a little line into the final backcast before you make the final forward cast by lightening your grip, then tighten to stop the slide back of the line and make a forward cast. As soon as the loop is launched, let the line go in the fingers - the head will freely sail out.
Don't apply too much power early in the stroke - speed up gradually to a hard and high stop around 10 o'clock
If you can't hook up with us at the Clave next weekend, please answer the following questions and I will try my best to analyze what you are encountering and try to help:
1) Can you describe the problem you're having?
2) What line are you using on the rod?
3) What were the conditions?
Thanks in advance,
05-10-2004, 01:53 AM
Once you have a clean low effort casting stroke, slide a little line into the final backcast before you make the final forward cast by lightening your grip,
What's the reason for doing that ?
With two handed rods on the beach, for fishing purposes it's often best to use a line with a shorter head. This is to allow a full retrieve for fish who chase to the end, then flip and cast again quickly.
These lines have a big difference from the head to the running line and if you try to cast with the running line out of the guides you experience a major hinge effect and the cast goes poorly.
If you only false cast with the head out, the cast will go well with such lines. However you can get away with a small shoot of running line on the final backcast without too much trouble, although you still need to be careful not to go past the "physical limit". You will know when you do because the forward cast will feel weak, no energy transfer.
I plan on marking my lines once the season gets underway so I have a visual queue for where my lines need to stop sliding. You don't need to do this, but you get more ooomph if you do.
That being said, you can certainly cast long headed lines. Try the Hardy Mach I 10/11 for instance, over 50ft long on the head length but casts beautifully. Spey casts nicely too on an 11ft rod.
I prefer shooting heads in the 30ft range with 550, even 600 grains. These will require a little care to make straight casts but even with relaxed motions distances well over 100ft are easy and these fine, dense lines bite wind better than fat lines.
Overall, it's not necessary to slide line if there is ample grains in the line, but it's a good technique to add a little grain to the cast if needed. Certainly helps with lighter lines.
05-10-2004, 12:50 PM
Thanks for all the quick responses,yesterday was probably the worst day to baptize myself into the world of the 2 handers,there was a strong SSW wind blowing which put it over my shoulders from right to left,and since I'm right handed it did not make for the best conditions,and the 12" herring pattern didn't help with my first attempt.I 'm using the Wulff saltwater triangle intermediate 12wt. line,is this under grained,I believe it has a 35ft. head.I work 2nd shift so I won't be able to attend the clave activities in the evening, but the morning hours are good up to 13:00 hours,do you know where you all might be in the am?I generally fish every morning before sun up to 13:00,and if the tide is right I,m back on the water by midnight. Thanks Paul.
Glad to hear there was a strong SSW wind all day, it was East Saturday making casting into a stiff headwind over the surf a tough time. We had both single and double handed on the beach and there was a marked difference in ability between the two, about double the reach over the waves - but the headwind is the worst to deal with for any type of setup and it was a bear with the fat intermediate line.
Best casting ability in headwinds is with thinner, grainy lines. The Wulff is in fact less than the grain max for the rod by a long shot but because of a good taper it usually casts quite well, under normal conditions. I always remove the first 18 inches of that line, sorry if I forgot to mention that, and start with a 40# butt section to 15-20# tippet for the beach.
But for cutting into wind, nothing beats a high density low diameter shooting head. Not all bottom types allow for such high density heads but in tide rips and sand beaches they rule.
Another way to deal with wind is to learn how to reverse cast, across the body. All you need to do is think about making a tight and straight backcast across the body and use both hands (push/pull) when making the forward cast. It usually throws as fafr as the strong side with a little practice, and laughs at the wind coming onto the usual shoulder.
If you can make it to one of the gatherings, we can show you a few techniques that will make your next outing enjoyable. I will plan on doing a two-hander thing at the Clave next weekend, in the morning - so if you can attend we'll see you there! I will post a time and place in the next day or two.
05-10-2004, 02:39 PM
Gave the new 2 hander it's first saltwater workout this weekend.
Saturday was a howling wind out of the east. Hit several spots looking for some shelter and finally just decided it was windy everywhere and began flailing the water. Caught several twinkees, schnauzers, poodles, dashounds and a couple of medium size sheep dogs, but no bulldogs, great danes or massifs. The Altantis did buck the wind quite well, although I had to use more left shouldler than I am used to. Still have not mastered the technique yet but..., it will sail out the line. Line management is tricky, especially after you get tired. Fun rod.
Sunday found me hitting my Nauset to Upper Bass haunts and had the same results with the old 9 wt. Lots of small fish, but I did land 2 that were 22" and my partner landed a 24" striper, (aka medium size sheep dog).
It is starting, should be a good clave this weekend.
No bluefish spotted yet.
See alot of you guys on Friday.
05-10-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by juro
Good question. ....
Thanks. I asked because I've been doing this involuntarily at times and have been trying to stop it. It sounds like I shouldn't. No, I'm not a good caster (there are no doubts about it)..
05-11-2004, 01:45 PM
What a difference a day and helpful hints from this forum makes!After I got the feel of where the Wulff triangle taper wants to be on this rod,I had no problem shooting the entire line plus a little backing,3rd or 4th cast had the 105ft of fly line,8ft of leader and about 8ft of backing shooting out 123 ft ,as the guys on the Dodge Hemi commercial say sweeeeet.Thanks for the help!!!By the way I was able to swing Friday of after someone else at work cancelled so I'll make the clave and dinner ,look forward to meeting you all.