Flats Logic #5 [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Flats Logic #5


juro
04-07-2004, 10:17 PM
Update: I've decided the best way to do this is to draw two names from the list of those with correct answers. I will be waterboy for these two on the Monomoy Flats for a day, lunch is on me and I might influence a spot or two to stand around at based on the tides. You also get to use any fly in my box, if you even wanted to.

Please keep in mind these posts are supposed to be just for fun and my views might be a touch opinionated in the answers to these questions, but I assure you they have been thought through. If you feel I have reached the conclusions in error, please bring up your opposing views so that we might compare, contrast for the benefit of all. Afterall, that is the intent here.


OK - Simple question:

Of all the factors for success on the flats, what is the first one on the list (most important)?

striperstripper
04-07-2004, 10:22 PM
keep your line in the water more than not:hehe:

flydoc
04-07-2004, 10:50 PM
I'm gonna go on a limb and go with.....presentation????
Shep

striblue
04-07-2004, 11:02 PM
Seeing;)

porkslice
04-08-2004, 12:08 AM
stealth

Dave17
04-08-2004, 01:28 AM
Being there (time on the water, experience, etc)

2HandTheSalt
04-08-2004, 06:24 AM
Hey Juro, can you flesh out that question a bit for us?

FredA
04-08-2004, 06:31 AM
That one's easy but dave17 beat us to it. You gotta be there.

FishHawk
04-08-2004, 07:29 AM
Stop and observer your surrondings. Know your tides.
But seeing as John says is most important.
FishHawk:D

SageBoy
04-08-2004, 08:13 AM
What stage of the tide it is when you decide to fish.

Dble Haul
04-08-2004, 08:14 AM
Tidal stages, and knowing how to fish them as they change.

Edit: Sageboy, looks like you and I had the same answer at almost the same time! ;)

rjbadfish
04-08-2004, 08:17 AM
Juro,

You said "Successful" correct? Wouldn't it be important for the fish to be there too?:hehe:

Ray

Paxton
04-08-2004, 08:22 AM
Being basic, and probably giving a stupid answer.......the flats have to have a suffient amount of water over them to be able to fish.
Ron

Adrian
04-08-2004, 08:39 AM
There has to be fish, but I'm assuming that's a given. If I want to enjoy my time on the flats then that means SIGHT fishing, which means my most important factor is good light. A cobalt blue sky, and a 1:00 p.m. low tide would make me very happy.

BigDave
04-08-2004, 09:32 AM
You need some water on the flat, although that could be at any stage of the tide depending on location.

Sun is essential too...no sight, no sight fishing!

CSJ60
04-08-2004, 09:47 AM
Be patient, stand still and watch for movement/shadows

jimS
04-08-2004, 11:24 AM
FISH, and as John said, "able to see them."

Simms

Roop
04-08-2004, 11:39 AM
Stomp all the crabs you come across to create a chum slick? ;)

jfbasser
04-08-2004, 12:26 PM
Have a good breakfast!

Smcdermott
04-08-2004, 12:44 PM
1. Presence of fish
2. Presenation
3. Pattern

The holy trinity of the flats angler.

Sean

juro
04-08-2004, 01:51 PM
Sean has heard it before, the answer as I see it is "presence of fish".

Now if we think about that statement, it's not as trivial as it sounds. One could look at it from two perspectives - something that the angler controls, or something that controls the angler.

The reason I have come to the conclusion that this is the #1 factor for success on the flats is that I believe it's something that the angler can control, in large part anyway. The angler can control where he is, when he goes there and what he does at that situation. Of course there is no controlling mother nature but there are some serious odds to be stacked in one's favor. Most importantly it's the #1 factor that the angler's time is best spend learning, even more than the presentation and fly. If you don't think of this factor first, the rest is left to fate and pure luck.

When the conditions are perfect, the presention seasoned and true, the fly proven and deadly. What good does all that do if you do not know where the fish are going to be at the moment? No good at all.

Yet the fish are "where you find them" and could pop up in front of you at any moment. Hence the description "presence of fish" as opposed to "knowing where the fish are". The latter is a pursuit, a goal, a course of study with great returns.

If you are not where the fish are, then nothing else you have going for you can get you a fish.

The winner of this round and new entry into the drawing is rjbadfish.

Sageboy and Dble Haul had a large part of the answer but other factors like time of day, seasonal activity (e.g. migration), presence of bait species (fall bunker, herring runs), temperature due to structure (dark bottomed estuaries), Roops crab smoothie, etc - are all things that influence presence of fish that are not specifically tide related.

striperstripper
04-08-2004, 05:41 PM
Juro sorry I have to disagree with you,what is the # 1 reason the Monomoy flats have become so popular? Sight fishing,if you can't see the fish,your chances of hook-ups are greatly diminished.As a guide on these flats I 'm sure you have had times when the fish are cruising in front of you,you pick them up immediatly but your clients don't see them,so in my 2 cent opinion if you can't see fish when there present you won't be successful.

juro
04-09-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by striperstripper
Juro sorry I have to disagree with you,what is the # 1 reason the Monomoy flats have become so popular? Sight fishing,if you can't see the fish,your chances of hook-ups are greatly diminished.As a guide on these flats I 'm sure you have had times when the fish are cruising in front of you,you pick them up immediatly but your clients don't see them,so in my 2 cent opinion if you can't see fish when there present you won't be successful.

Striperstripper -

Sorry I just saw this post now.

You are right, and I don't mean to disagree with you as you made a super valid point... but

- if you didn't put yourself where the fish are then you won't see anything anyway

- an angler does not need to see the fish to catch them if they are there

- on a dark day, or at dead low when the spring sand eel shoals arrive, you can blind cast your way to dozens of good fish if desired

...provided you know where the fish are or luck into them somehow.

Again my point is simply that it's most important for a flats angler to know "where are the fish going to be at such-such date/time and why?". I'd have to say that the average angler often puts less thought into this aspect than he/she does the design and choice of flies.

Vision is very important. It's good to keep in mind that late morning to mid-afternoon provides the best visibility, and that wind conditions and ambient light (lack of clouds) are also of utmost importance. Early morning / evening calm periods can also be very good for viewing wakes and tails.

But it all means bupkus if the fish are not where you put your feet, with all due respect.