Art vs fishcatching [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Art vs fishcatching


josko
03-16-2004, 06:48 PM
I'm confused. I read up extensively on salmon and steelhead patterns only to find that GL flies seem to amount to Estaz wrapped around a hook, glo bugs, wooly buggers, and occasional stonefly nymphs. Is there a dichodemy between the flies used to catch steelhead and salmon and the carefully tied patterns shown in the mags and at shows.
In other words, has the salmon and spey fly tying gone to a point past tying flies to actually catch fish?? Are the 'fancy' pattens the flies of choice somewhere, just perhaps not in the great lakes? Or have these flies evolved to a cul-de-sac similar to the bright wet flies tied some 50 years back? It seems that was an artform (more like craftform) evolving for its' own sake???

If I'm trying to tie up a set of patterns that maximize my chances of actually catching steelhead; should I be looking at spey flies or wooly buggers??

Nooksack Mac
03-16-2004, 07:39 PM
Yes, the tying of spey, dee, and other fancy flies exceeded the bounds of practical necessity - not just recently, but something like 150 years ago.
A simple fly like a Woolly Worm, Woolly Bugger, Egg-Sucking Leech, or Thor is as likely to catch steelhead as anything else. On the other hand, many fancy flies are also unexcelled as fish-getters. It's just that you don't have to take pains, with expensive, elaborate, difficult-to-tie flies, if you don't want to.
We're always making compromises between practicality and our aesthetic sense, which most people have. Just as we're free to go anywhere in public in our fishing clothes, but usually wouldn't. My steelhead flies range from very elaborate to very simple. When I'm losing flies too frequently, I reach for my "cannon fodder" box.

CDG
03-16-2004, 09:18 PM
I fish spey and dee flies, tube flies, prawn flies, you name it. Does it really matter to the fish, not in my opinion. Does it matter to me?? You bet, i only fish flies i have confindence in, if i don't have confindence in a fly then i'm not going to fish it. The speys and dees, to me, are all about the beauty and tradition. I love to fish them and love to tie them even more. I get bored at the bench if i'm constantly tying stuff that isn't a challenge. Yeah they can get expensive, but it's worth it to me.

Oh well, to each his own.

CDG:smokin:

flytyer
03-16-2004, 11:52 PM
You can catch steelhead on yarn tied to a hook with leader material; however, I like to have nice looking flies and yarn on a hook just doesn't do it for me.

There is also the evolution of angling methods. People have been fly fishing for steelhead on the west coast since the early 1900's. Many of the early steelhead flies on the west coast were very crude and poorly proportioned, etc. They have come a long way since the late 50's when folks like Glasso started to tye very effective and beautiful flies for steelhead. Also, very few of the west coast steelhead rivers have fishable populations of resident rainbows, so fly fishers fished for steelhead and not trout in most of the rivers.

The midwestern steelhead fly fishing is very young in comparison to the west coast. And the midwestern fly fishers were used to fishing for trout in the same rivers that they then fished for steelhead. They did not know how to catch steelhead (I remember reading Swisher, Richards, and Whitlock talking about using weighted nymphs to "match the prevelent insect life to intice steelhead".) The fly fishers saw folks using spinning and casting gear adding lead weight to their lines and fishing with eggs, yarn, or other such things. Therefore, the midwestern fly fishers adopted the spinning and casting methods of adding weight to their leaders with glow bugs to imitate eggs or weighted nymphs and began the "chuck and duck" so prevelent in the midwest. Does it catch fish, yes. Is is a lot of fun to chuck and duck all day, nope. Can you catch midwestern steelhead with swung flies like the west coasters do, yep.

I even use classic married featherwings for winter steelhead. In fact, I donated PURPLE EMPERORS to the Skagit River today. No biggy, I always expect to lose at least one fly each time I fish sink tips. There are plenty of roots, branches, rocks, and assorted other objects imbedded in the river bottom to grab a fly and not let go. It is the price of fishing. I prefer to fish with well-proportioned and aesthetically pleasing flies so I fish speys, dees, G.P.'s Ally's Shrimps, and classic married featherwings.

Are my flies more effective than yarn, probably not; but they look a lot nicer. Besides, tying them gives you something to do on cold winter nights.

Gary W
03-17-2004, 04:13 AM
If you want to tie flies to catch fish - think size, colour, weight, profile/movement.

If you want to tie flies that are challenging to tie and look nice - think exotic feathers, colour combinations, proportion.

Flies that catch fish can be both.

I have caught salmon on flies that, to my eyes, are the ugliest of creations(simple black & yellow tubes etc.). I have also caught salmon on flies that have taken a long time to tie and would not look out of place in a ladies brooch collection(traditional patterns, temple dogs, intricate shrimp patterns etc.).

Each to their own I say. If it matches the conditions and gives you confidence, fish it. I can now happily fish with the same fly on my leader all day. I used to change flies regularly just because I had not tempted a fish. If you have picked a fly that suits the conditions a change in presentation is more likely to induce a take than a change of fly.

Each to their own, whatever makes you happy.

juro
03-17-2004, 05:05 AM
Josko,

Sure there is a little bit of fanfare going on, but more importantly there's a difference in presentation and technique between drifting, nymphing and the more traditional spey approach that shapes the proper fly for the technique. Let me explain my point of view FWIW:

In the original act of salmon angling in Europe it was a swinging game. Salmon flies were aptly designed to swim, not drift along with the assistance of weight or floats. The gut eye, properly proportioned wing and body, even the collar and palmering were as important in function as they were 'expressive' in form because they made the fly ride throughout the swing in a manner that solicited the fish from their lies to take the fly, to move the fish to the fly rather than move the fly to the fish. Did they get carried away with the choice of materials? Hoo yeah. But it created a legacy that is an important part of angling lore.

Upon arrival in the new world, the hard to find feathers may have largely been replaced with hairwings, but not much else had changed. The fundamental design of the salmon fly and dee/spey fly had no reason at all to change due to the presentation style from Newfoundland to Maine. The availability of mallard and the generally humble dress of spey flies compared to classic mixed wings made them easy to tie on anyone's budget. Yet simpler hairwing versions of classic salmon flies were the dominant direction and remains so today.

Despite rare feathers adorned on the full dress salmon flies, they swam right and caught fish. Some color schemes would in fact work better than others at certain times or in certain rivers, but to your point most of the materials could have been replaced, omitted or otherwise ignored but not the design has been proven to be effective for centuries. Nonetheless a swinging fly design is lost on drift presentations, just as drift flies do not work well on the swing.

Look at the popular flatwings with jungle cock eyes for stripers, fished on floating lines. For the mentality of the fish being sought this is way more extravagant of an offering than a spey fly for an atlantic salmon or steelhead who is not feeding! Yet people think nothing of getting all fancy for stripers, the thick shouldered blitzing linebackers of the suds. I found out years ago that a blob of epoxy on a hook will take even the most finicky stripers. Yet I too get frilly with striper flies now and then.

Anyway, a century or so ago the wave of salmon angling lore hit the pacific northwest's steelhead rivers and the result is by and large the game is to swing if you are a fly guy. Chuck and duck, indicator and nymph, etc - are the exception rather than the rule for fly rodders out west vs. GL where it is the rule. I attribute this difference to the fish, the fishermen, and the conditions. The fish out west are probably more willing (wild), the fly-fishermen more patient and less focused on quantity over quality, and the temperatures are warmer which supports the two previous observations. There are serious flyguys, and serious gear guys using non-fly rods and tackle, not gear guys using fly tackle.

I could be totally up my kazoo but I have fished both and have formed an opinion based on watching the masses fish over redds with guides in the midwest and comparing this against the steelhead culture of which I partook for many years.

(Back to fly design) neither an egg fly or nymph will swing well, although the ol' wooly bugger gives any fly a run for the money. :) It does not belong on the same list as the egg fly and nymph fly because it is a wet fly that swims and is effective on the swing. It's design is very similar to the European tube flies, but there is no tube. I've caught many steelhead on the swing with buggers. Some funny fish stories behind that. Anyway nymphs and egg flies swing sideways and upsidedown, they are designed for drift fishing or under a bobber, for instance - or behind some split shot etc. Spey flies are designed to swim enticingly in an upright fashion, and yes they do solicit strikes as they did centuries ago.

In summary these are just the observations of a dedicated steelhead angler who has seen both sides. For me it boils down to this - one day spent in shirt sleeves on an early fall day grease lining a spey fly in caddis colors just under the surface film on a floating line is all it takes to savor the swing... then a chrome bright summer steelhead torpedoes the fly and the serenity is shattered into chaos for a while as the fish who was bold enough to rise to the take flexes it's acrobatic muscle and your ears ring with screaming drag. It's a native... be gentle and pluck the barbless hook from it's jaw so it can swim free. With practice, the swing techniques become effective for the angler and the reward becomes the achievement, not the fish - IMHO. Hence the traditional fly design's popularity in steelheading.

.02

Igor
03-17-2004, 07:45 AM
Hey Ya'll

I'd wager that this very same discourse was probably conducted well over 150 years ago.

Imagine for a moment, two passionate anglers - one, a proponent of swinging the ornate Victorian flies of the era, the other, content to lob the simple flies fashioned from plumage gathered from his barnyard or latest hunting trip.

While both are firmly entrenched in their individual schools of thought, both are 'correct', of course.

I think this age old and still gentle 'argument' is one of the many things that make our sport (and art) so darned fascinating.

Hywel

natrix
03-18-2004, 05:53 PM
There is a special place in my heart for an ornate fly swinging through a tail out at dawn, especially if I just tied the thing and Im taking it out for its first swim.

Natrix

CDG
03-18-2004, 07:47 PM
there is absolutely nothing like swinging flies for 5 straight days without a pull and then have a steelhead almost jerk the rod out of your hand on the take, especially if this steelhead's home is around Spences Bridge.:smokin:

Sharp Steelie
04-11-2004, 06:35 PM
In my opinion; for more hookups use simple natural
patterns. For more of a challenge; use more artistic
flashy patterns - either way, it's all good:cool:

juro
04-11-2004, 06:56 PM
Whether a fly is fancy or plain, complicated or simple, legendary or unknown - has little to do with it's effectiveness for catching fish. A simpler fly is not necessarily more effective, nor is it necessarily less effective. A mixed wing tied with 16 illegal feathers is not more or less effective either. A fly is effective if it is effective, period. There are much more important factors in catching steelhead than the fly itself.

Stating my case:

At any given moment, a wide variety of flies could catch a fish. But how many presentation styles would do it? Only a fraction compared to the flies that would work.

Then how many spots hold fish? If there is no fish then no presentation nor fly in the world can succeed. Does the angler know where to find fish?

If the rest of the angler's house is in order, then he or she can choose which of the flies from within the range of options to use as they please.

For some, myself included, the appropriateness of the fly design befits the species. For a wild steelhead in the cascade mountains, I would not be as pleased to catch a 20# native buck on a globug as I would on a big spring steelie wet fly with good swimming characteristics, even if they were both equally effective. Yes the mallard wings, the blue-eared pheasant spey hackles, the seal dubbing, a thing of beauty for both the angler and the fish to behold. A fly to be proud of in the photograph of the big fish's maw just before a gentle release.

That might not be the case for everyone, nor do I think it should - to each his/her own. But certainly for me I've reached a happy balance in a series of flies that are both aesthetically exciting as well as very effective for fishing, and have no reason to compromise. Life's too short for crappy flies ;)

Sharp Steelie
04-11-2004, 08:04 PM
Life really is to short to not catch Steelhead on a fly. Atlantic
Salmon flies and Large wet Steelhead flies are a thing of
beauty and are very enjoyable to create if one has the
time. Due to time constraints, sometimes one has to come
up with simple patterns that are well tied that produce
fish. Not talking "Glo-bugs". When it comes to actually landing
a Steelhead on a fly - in my opinion, the only crappy fly is the
fly that does not catch fish. Have created several that are
in the recycling bin for good. From the artistic side, in my
opinion there is no such thing as "a crappy fly". It's all about
perception and what actually works.

Happy Easter

;)

Robert
04-16-2004, 04:44 PM
"My father was very sure about certain matters pertaining to the universe. To him, all good things - trout as well as eternal salvation - come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy."

Norman Maclean "A River Runs Through It" (1976)

flytyer
04-16-2004, 08:49 PM
Juro,

Exactly! An effective fly is an effective fly, period. I just like to tie and fish with nice, well-tied flies.

An example of differing effectiveness was what happened yesterday in the late afternoon/early evening on the Skagit. Ed Ward, big John form Chicago, and I fished through the same run together. Each of us used very different flies that had a different swim profile in the water and which swam at different water depth relative to the sink tips we were using. All of us were presenting our chosen flies with a classic across stream wet fly swing. However, only one of us had any action, and he missed two fish and landed a very bright hen that still had sea lice on it.

The only real difference between the three of us was the type of fly being used. And on that particular day, with that particular river flow and water temp, only one of the fly types was effective. And all three of us were using what many call fancy flies. Ed was using one of his Intruders, Big John was using a Marabou Spider, and I was using an Ally's Shrimp. On a different day, one of the other fly types may have been the most effective.

Is this always the case? Of course not! There are days when several different fly types will garner takes, and others where a specific fly type or color will illicit takes.

Steelheader69
04-16-2004, 09:15 PM
How things have changed. I happen to have a fly catalog from a UK store (don't have it handy, so not sure on which shop). It dates back to the war. I'd say WWII, but from the looks of the pictures and such, I almost want to say WWI. They have their trout flies, and then of course their salmon flies. It's the black and white photos they color in, so can tell it's older. Well, there is not ONE simple salmon fly in there. Not one. All of them are full dressed salmon flies. No hairwings, or simple feather wings. Just amazing. I also have an old flyfishing book I do believe is from the 1940's or 50's from the US. It's actually full of different flies and articles by now famous people (like Dan Bailey, Meagan Boyd, and a few others). I do believe at that point in the book they were talking about using flies for "steelhead trout". They were talking about a trend for using simple hair winged flies. LOL. Was pretty funny, when you think that for as long as I can remember (mid 70's when I started fishing) when I thought of steelhead flies they were hairwings. Never thought of featherwings as steelhead flies.

I actually like the resurgence of hairwings. Are they needed? No, not really. But they are fun to tie, and fun to fish. I confess, I enjoy having pictures taken with an ackroyd in the fishes mouth then a bunny leech. Though, I've caught alot of steelhead on that simple bunny leech. There are times where if you throw something different at the fish, they'll react. I've written this quite awhile ago on this board (I think it was here) about a similar situation to flytyer. Had 3 of us fishing the Hoh. All of us were using drastically different flies. All three of us scored fish. Including a near triple header. It's just working the fly properly and finding the fish sometimes.

inland
04-17-2004, 12:33 AM
I don't have the patience to sit down and tie ultra fancy flies anymore. KISS= I have simplified most of my staple spey patterns and still can't stomach more than a half dozen the one day a month I force myself to sit and tie. The creative tying juices dried up 7 or 8 years ago. I guess the season has to be looming to get the motivation. However I do derive great pleasure from fishing 'artful' flies, it's that I don't go over the top anymore. Are they more effective? Only because I have complete confidence and they stay tied to the leader.

Now Flytyer, you left that one wide open on WHICH fly had the action. Taking a stab I would guess it was a LARGE prawn type pattern with lead eyes. Could be wrong though...

William

flytyer
04-17-2004, 12:39 AM
William,

You are wrong in your guess. I purposely left out which one was illicited the takes because it was not germaine to the illustration. However, since you asked a direct question, it was the Ally's Shrimp.

Igor
04-17-2004, 08:46 AM
Of *course* it was the Ally's Shrimp.

Riveraddict
04-18-2004, 12:17 AM
I should probably just let this one go, but seeing as how I just ditched a two day migraine and am now feeling a bit spunky, here goes...

Missed two? In my book that is totally inconclusive and shaky grounds for judging the effectiveness of a fly. Two what? Dollies? Suckers? Sticks? Rocks? C'mon, lets be real and go by "hard" facts. One steelhead was landed. It was on at least the second pass that ALL of us had made through that run. Said run is 200+ yards long, is well known as a "moving fish" run, and it was evening - light fading as we fished. Regardless of the order in which we were (you were #1 in line as a matter of fact), the fact is that under said circumstances no experienced steelheader would conclude that it was the fly the made the difference of catching the only fish of the evening. Don't mean to pick on you Flytyer, but that piece of water is infamous for putting out fish in random order regardless of who you are, how far you can cast, what fly you are using, etc., etc. That is one of the reasons that I love fishing it.

flytyer
04-18-2004, 12:47 AM
Igor,

And on other days it is a different fly that gets the fish.

Riveraddict,

I have fished that run many times when sharing it with 7 or 8 fisherman when only one fly type has caught steelhead. And I have fished it when nearly any fly caught fish.

It may well have been a recently arrived fish that was willing to take; but it could have just as easily been a fish that was there for several hours that was a player with only one fly type. I have seen on the Skagit/Sauk and other rivers with both summer and winter fish.

The first time through I had an Orange Heron on and got nothing. The second time through, per my usual practive whether summer or winter, I changed to a different type and style fly and got a fish.

I began the practice of changing to a diffrent style and type of fly on any subsequent pass through a run about 10 years ago after reading in Kelson's SALMON FLY why he changed fly style and type each time he went through a run. I have found a taker on the new fly style and type often enough that I think Kelson was right in his assertion about a different type and style of fly may well by the difference between going fishless and getting a fish.

Does it always work, no; but it works more often than going through a second time with the same fly or type of fly as the first time through.

Feiger
04-18-2004, 01:21 AM
Are we going to start ANOTHER thread debating the merits of one fly type vs. another, intruder vs. hairwing vs. full dress feather wing vs. spey vs. a piece of burlap/estaz wrapped on a hook?? For all of the hypothosizing and theorizing I've seen on other threads of this subject what flies do/don't when, where and how they "trigger" a response and all the things we THINK we can control, the biggest and most important wild card, the action/reaction of the fish (and their movement through a run, where they there, or weren't they there the previous pass, a change in light on the water, did it get up on the right or the left side of the bed that morning.........:eyecrazy: :hehe: :hehe: ), has been and ALWAYS WILL BE unpredictable. Sure, like all other things wild, we can begin to establish patterns of where we expect them to hold in a run, when they MAY be there, and what kinds of presentations MIGHT entice them to bite, but ultimately whether or not it does is completely up to the fish, and the fish alone; at best, all we can hope to do is give it the opportunity to make that mistake. :smokin:

Until someone can absolutely, repeatedly demonstrate that the EXACT SAME FISH, under the EXACT SAME conditions, with the EXACT SAME fly and the EXACT SAME presentation (with their @#$* on the exact same side of their drawers/wader?? :whoa: ), why one fly caught a fish in a run, while another fly didn't is purely theory and speculation... Scientific Method fellas...

Tho I must admit I do enjoy some of the battles and bickering---some of you guys take this WAY to seriously!!:tsk_tsk: What, are you trying to make a living fishing or something?!?!? :eyecrazy: :eyecrazy: :smokin: I jest, fellas...

Here's theory for ya, I "observe" such behavior amongst "forum partiicipants" most often and at its peak when the rivers are blown, the steelhead runs suck, they're havin' to work instead of fish, the season ends (poor OP bastards...)... Solution?? Go Fishing!!!!

my $1.25--keep the change....

flytyer
04-18-2004, 01:38 AM
Feiger,

Yup! It is pure theory and it ain't worth debating here in the forum. It is best left for time away from the river in the company of fly fishing friends and some quality whisky. :)

Feiger
04-18-2004, 12:36 PM
Exactly!!! tip one back for me!!!!!

Riveraddict
04-18-2004, 02:08 PM
Flytyer,
You totally missed my point. Your post implied heavily that it was the particular fly that you were using that was responsible for catching that steelhead, and that the other patterns being used were somehow "not right" for that situation, as "confirmed" by the fact that that yours was the only steelhead caught. I am stating the case that THE CATCHING OF ONE FISH, especially on the piece of water involved, and under the conditions that were at hand, is not enough basis for drawing such a conclusion, or presenting the situation in a way that implies such a conclusion. I too have made multiple passes on that bar hundreds of times (at least) over many years and have done as you do - changed flies during successive passes. I have also fished it numerous times by making several passes while using the same fly each time. Personally, I have found NO difference in success rate between the two approaches as long as there wasn't some obvious change in conditions (this of course assuming that one is using a fly that is "appropriate" to begin with). I have experimented with many different approaches to fishing that piece of water, and have accumulated extensive observations and experiences there, much of it back in the days when there were actually large numbers of fish during our Winter/Spring runs, and have concluded that at most times the fish being caught there are MOVING fish, and only TEMPORARILY holding, and that with each passing minute the numbers of fish and their locations on that particular piece of water is a constantly changing factor, therefore considering the dynamic variables, it is not a good place to try and establish the effectiveness of one fly against another

Feiger,
You are right in what you state. Besides, if steelheading were "scientific" it wouldn't be such an appealing sport to those of us that are "off" enough to pursue it with great passion. However, given enough experience, combined with an aptitude for observation, one can definitely establish patterns of steelhead behavior and circumstances, and this of course helps determine fly selection. I personally do not believe in "magic fly patterns", but instead base my selection of a fly on GENERAL size, silhouette, and color. I believe that all fly patterns that are of the same general size, silhouette, and color, will have absolutely the same impact on a fish, during the same conditions, regardless of whether it is an Ally's Shrimp, G.P., or Intruder, etc., etc.

Riveraddict
04-20-2004, 06:08 PM
One thing to keep in mind about the GL (Great Lakes) fishery is that a significant number of the steelhead enter into the rivers in the Fall prior to the Spring that they will spawn, with others continueing to trickle into the rivers throughout the onset of early winter. These particular fish have not taken on the "mindset" of spawning, and will actively feed, in fact quite aggressively at times. When they first enter into the river they can act very much like opportunistic trout and bite just about anything that is thrown their way. But, as they accrue more time in the river, they "key in" and become more "adjusted" to the food forms that are actually present - salmon eggs until the middle/end of December, then nymphs - and like any resident trout, they start to become "selective". Once "residualized" to the river, GL steelhead are "keyed" to food items that drift naturally with the current, as that is the most likely means with which the most prevalent and common forms of food found in that environment present themselves to the steelhead. These fish will also assume holding spots that will have more to do with feeding than resting, and will remain in them for greatly extended periods of time as compared with PNW (Pacific Northwest) winter steelhead. These facts have a great deal to do with the popularity of egg flies and natural looking nymphs in the GL region. Swinging flies for GL steelhead works, but most certainly not to the degree that dead drifting glo-bugs or nymphs does. For GL steelheaders it comes down to whether one wishes to fish most effectively (dead drift glo-bugs and nymphs), or whether one wishes to catch steelhead in a manner that is more personally pleasing/satisfactory (swinging flies - whether they be Woolly Buggers or Speys).

Here in the PNW we deal with a different set of parameters. When our winter fish enter into freshwater, Mother Nature has already "turned off" their need to feed. This does not mean that they will absolutely not feed, but rather that the "desire" to do so is much reduced or non-existent. Also, the sections of rivers we fish basically can be looked upon as "highways" for steelhead traveling to reach upriver spawning areas. These spawning areas are closed to angling at that time of year. This means that we are fishing for steelhead that will "hold" in our part of the river only temporarily, a few hours up to a couple of days, and that our steelhead select their holding spots solely for their ability to provide temporary sanctuary or refuge. Our rivers are also considerably larger in average volume, and usually contain less fish than the GL rivers do. All of this adds up to the fact that winter steelheading in the PNW boils down to a "searching" game, as we cannot predict at ANY time, which particular piece of water will have any steelhead in it, or even where in a particular piece of water a fish will necessarily be holding. Fortunately, because our steelhead are not feeding but do seem to retain a "reflex" feeding response under the right circumstances (thus not "selective), coupled with the fact that their most recent feeding "memory" is oceanic, we are allowed considerable lattitude in the flies that we fish, along with their presentations. These conditons all contribute to the wider variety of flies that can be used successfully out here in the PNW, and also is why the swinging of flies (whatever particular type) is a popular and effective approach of flyfishing steelhead here.

It is true that for many anglers art will actually overtake function when it comes to tying flies... and PNW steelhead are very accomodating to such pursuits. And, as long as the fly is productive enough to keep its creator satisfied, then what the heck! What I don't get though, is how many folks will spend inordinate amounts of time to get some aesthetically pleasing aspect of a fly just right, but won't invest hardly any time at all into improving the actual FUNCTION of the fly.

wrke
04-20-2004, 07:05 PM
RA
Wow, does this mean that I should now start fishing my beloved North Umpqua summer steelhead like they are Great Lakes fish (you know, they spawn in the spring, too)?? Throw away over 30 years of experience of swinging classic flies and now start fishing egg flies? I think I'm going to cry.

Sharp Steelie
04-21-2004, 01:35 AM
Riveraddict - I completely agree with you. FUNCTION is
the key to effective fly patterns - specifically for Steelhead.
I have personally tied just about every type of fly there
is with a few exceptions. I prefer to tie flies that fish will
readily take. Why go fly fishing to not catch Steelhead. There
really is something to the K.I.S.S. theory.:cool:

BobK
04-21-2004, 08:26 AM
Here in Lake Ontario, New York State took some basic rainbows, and by playing with light in the hatcheries, altered their spawning habits to make 'em FALL spawners. The true steelheads (and Skamies) are spring spawners. BOTH varieties are stocked in tribs leading into the lake. I heard that this was done to keep 'em separate.

In the fall, you can catch some beautifully marked RAINBOWS of extraordinary size. Normal rainbow markings, as well. You will also see them on redds, in the act of spawning. But you can catch some steelies, as well.

The 11-pounder I got last October, following the kings upstream, was caught on an egg pattern while fishing for lake-run browns, and had the most beautiful "typical rainbow" coloration you could ask for. Most of the "steelheads" I catch in the fall are so marked, but I do get some typical silvery "true steelheads" - at least that's what the coloration tells me.

I don't know if the other GL states are similarly affected, but that seems to be true for the streams of western Lake Ontario.

Sorry to throw some confusion into the game, but it's all relevant, I guess.

BobK

Feiger
04-21-2004, 08:45 AM
So, does RA's beloved intruders fall under the KISS method?? ;)

All in jest. I have a preference for the spey flies myself, in part the "art" and energy required to make a good one, but also because of their effectiveness. can't argue with 30-40 years on west coast steelhead success, and a couple centuries of swingin' in the old world.

Like many have said, having confidence in your fly maybe the single most influential aspect of your fishing. With a fly you have confidence in, the more intent and carefull you'll fish, and will concentrate on the swing, ready for the take... I have that confidence in the spey/Glasso flies I've tied, not the simple hairwing down at the fly shop....

feiger

Sharp Steelie
04-24-2004, 12:11 PM
Feiger,

Have been experimenting for years (since 1986). The catch
rate ratio between the simple patterns/nymphs and the
more traditional patterns (Atlantic Salmon/Steelhead/Speys)
has been staggering. Because of my work schedule for
years, have always had the opportunity to get out on
weekdays when pressure is light and do some real testing.

In my opinion and from what I have learned the fly does make
a difference. If I'm going out to catch Steelhead or Salmon
on a fly I have no doubt what the most effective patterns are.

On the other side of the house, it is alwasy fun to create
something new to try. If the pattern doesn't work - it goes
in the recycling bin. Simply put - I tie flies to catch fish not
fishermen. Have had so much fun and success that I figure
it's time to share for the benefit of some others - specifically
those just starting out.

Have a great week.